Bonus Episode: 22 Panels Pulp Blotter Book Club 10 - Blacksad

Mark Pracht and Tad discuss Blacksad by Juan Diaz Canales & Juanjo Guarnido.

Consider becoming a patron!

Transcript

WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:21.403
Tad Eggleston: Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to the pulp lotter on 22 panels. Mark Prott has returned, because for some reason he keeps doing cool stuff with me, which is awesome, because now we have 2 book clubs a month, anybody who hasn't listened to the 1st 4th World. Go back, Mark, Mark and Sean and I talk some Jack Kirby.

2
00:00:21.710 --> 00:00:23.020
Mark Pracht: Talk, some Jimmy Olsen.

3
00:00:23.250 --> 00:00:25.719
Tad Eggleston: Jimmy Olsen. That's right. That's right.

4
00:00:25.720 --> 00:00:26.750
Mark Pracht: Whiz, wagon.

5
00:00:30.260 --> 00:00:33.790
Tad Eggleston: And this week we're going to talk black, sad from from

6
00:00:34.725 --> 00:00:37.810
Tad Eggleston: see, I should have written down more stuff.

7
00:00:38.261 --> 00:00:40.520
Mark Pracht: It's Juan Diaz Canales, and.

8
00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:41.250
Tad Eggleston: Yes.

9
00:00:42.966 --> 00:00:48.360
Mark Pracht: Juanjo Garnido guarnito. I.

10
00:00:48.360 --> 00:00:50.660
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, probably one year.

11
00:00:50.660 --> 00:00:51.250
Mark Pracht: One year.

12
00:00:52.019 --> 00:00:52.789
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

13
00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:54.000
Mark Pracht: But

14
00:00:54.740 --> 00:00:56.450
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, in my edition.

15
00:00:56.450 --> 00:01:00.620
Mark Pracht: My edition has an introduction by Jim Sterenko.

16
00:01:00.980 --> 00:01:03.731
Tad Eggleston: The one I read did, too.

17
00:01:05.730 --> 00:01:10.009
Tad Eggleston: It's I. I'm gonna let you describe it, cause I.

18
00:01:10.390 --> 00:01:13.780
Tad Eggleston: It's 1 of those that I love so much that I have trouble finding the right words.

19
00:01:14.390 --> 00:01:16.220
Mark Pracht: You know, it's

20
00:01:17.980 --> 00:01:22.949
Mark Pracht: I was describing this just last night to somebody, because I was talking about that I was recording this this morning.

21
00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:33.755
Mark Pracht: and if I believe I'm correct about this, I hope I am, because wanzhou

22
00:01:36.490 --> 00:01:40.349
Mark Pracht: I believe, worked for Disney as an artist for a while.

23
00:01:40.350 --> 00:01:43.530
Tad Eggleston: Believe some.

24
00:01:43.930 --> 00:01:46.320
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that sounds right.

25
00:01:46.320 --> 00:01:51.790
Mark Pracht: The way I described it was that it is a pitch black.

26
00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:58.560
Mark Pracht: 19 fifties, Noir story detective story of with

27
00:01:59.600 --> 00:02:08.110
Mark Pracht: anthropomorphized animals that remind me of nothing more than Disney's Robin Hood.

28
00:02:09.229 --> 00:02:10.359
Mark Pracht: So I sort of like

29
00:02:10.740 --> 00:02:17.970
Mark Pracht: Walt Disney had made like, instead of doing Robin Hood. They had done Maltese falcon, or something in the same style.

30
00:02:17.970 --> 00:02:24.430
Tad Eggleston: I was. I was just about to say it's like Dashill Hammett done by Disney.

31
00:02:25.440 --> 00:02:38.269
Mark Pracht: and the main character is the detective of course is John Blacksad who is a panther and or well, I think of him as a panther, but he may just be a cat.

32
00:02:39.860 --> 00:02:48.390
Mark Pracht: But it, it's it's it was funny. As I was rereading it.

33
00:02:53.370 --> 00:02:58.340
Mark Pracht: I was thinking I was actually thinking a lot about when we talked about rocketeer.

34
00:02:58.620 --> 00:03:01.910
Mark Pracht: And I do think that in a lot of ways

35
00:03:03.970 --> 00:03:12.760
Mark Pracht: these books are as much an exercise in artistic style as rocketeer was. I think the the narratives are

36
00:03:13.870 --> 00:03:17.140
Mark Pracht: pretty standard detective.

37
00:03:18.580 --> 00:03:19.929
Tad Eggleston: Particularly hard, boiled.

38
00:03:19.930 --> 00:03:22.459
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's it's basic, you know, like.

39
00:03:22.460 --> 00:03:28.800
Tad Eggleston: They're they're they're they're very, very Dashiell Hammett, Raymond Chandler.

40
00:03:28.990 --> 00:03:35.100
Mark Pracht: I, you know I don't consider Cliche to be a bad word, so.

41
00:03:35.100 --> 00:03:36.690
Tad Eggleston: Jahealy, not in genre.

42
00:03:36.690 --> 00:03:41.609
Mark Pracht: Yeah. And and it is, it's it. They're fairly cliche narrative. Wise.

43
00:03:42.140 --> 00:03:48.179
Mark Pracht: of course you know they are. I believe they were originally published in Spanish.

44
00:03:49.570 --> 00:03:51.050
Tad Eggleston: Spanish or French.

45
00:03:53.460 --> 00:03:55.810
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I know they're from Spain.

46
00:03:56.160 --> 00:03:59.969
Tad Eggleston: But but the European comics work weird.

47
00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:04.410
Mark Pracht: But I mean it's it is European, and there's.

48
00:04:04.410 --> 00:04:10.629
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, it looks like it was. It was 1st by dark, odd.

49
00:04:12.010 --> 00:04:12.810
Mark Pracht: Right.

50
00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:20.259
Mark Pracht: English translations by Anthea, Flores, Patricia, Rivera, Diana, Schultz.

51
00:04:20.260 --> 00:04:22.290
Tad Eggleston: Diana, Schutz, Schutz.

52
00:04:22.290 --> 00:04:24.020
Mark Pracht: Shuts cash.

53
00:04:24.020 --> 00:04:26.950
Tad Eggleston: Barbara and Neil Adams.

54
00:04:26.950 --> 00:04:35.590
Tad Eggleston: I know Diana Schutz was the longtime editor at Dark Horse, and was like the the editor for Sin City. Among other things.

55
00:04:37.080 --> 00:04:40.489
Mark Pracht: I'm just. I just looked at this credit and.

56
00:04:40.490 --> 00:04:46.630
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, no. I got the Neil Adams. I I like, I want to

57
00:04:47.280 --> 00:04:54.950
Tad Eggleston: talk to Diana Schutz about this. Now, just to figure out how Neil Adams got the credit, because I wonder if it was

58
00:04:57.420 --> 00:05:12.200
Tad Eggleston: and because there's so much. And I need to do a translation episode. I've been wanting to do a translation episode for a while, where I talked to translators, because, like translating poetry, translating comics is nowhere near just doing a straight translation.

59
00:05:12.200 --> 00:05:12.580
Mark Pracht: Sure.

60
00:05:12.580 --> 00:05:28.319
Tad Eggleston: You have to get the feel you have to fit the the word balloons, or be careful to at least fit word balloons that aren't going to get in the way of the art you have to pay attention to do. I need to translate signs, do I? You know.

61
00:05:28.320 --> 00:05:35.629
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, and you know, it's just like when you translate a play Chekhov, like, there is

62
00:05:37.290 --> 00:05:42.440
Mark Pracht: a pure translation, oftentimes comes off very clunky.

63
00:05:42.660 --> 00:05:58.139
Mark Pracht: Yeah, you know, you want to put some sort of artistic, you know, a good translator is going to put an artistic bent on what the keep the spirit of it, but also like make it into a pleasing English sentence, or paragraph, or whatever it is.

64
00:05:58.250 --> 00:06:04.049
Mark Pracht: I it is. It is fascinating. Neil Adams. That's that's

65
00:06:04.620 --> 00:06:07.750
Mark Pracht: it's just really bizarre to me. But.

66
00:06:07.750 --> 00:06:14.310
Tad Eggleston: But yeah, at least, according to Wikipedia, they start in French, Spanish edition usually follows about a month later.

67
00:06:16.730 --> 00:06:22.293
Mark Pracht: Oh, Frenchy, Frenchy! French French fries. French toast anyway.

68
00:06:24.220 --> 00:06:27.729
Mark Pracht: no, but you know it. It is.

69
00:06:28.520 --> 00:06:31.810
Mark Pracht: The the artwork is so expressive.

70
00:06:34.850 --> 00:06:40.860
Mark Pracht: And I'm always struck like he has a tremendous artist, because I'm always struck at how

71
00:06:42.380 --> 00:06:50.270
Mark Pracht: the body language is so very human. And yet the the likenesses really are

72
00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:57.779
Mark Pracht: very accurate to the animals they're supposed to be to where you're like weekly, which is a little.

73
00:06:58.530 --> 00:06:59.780
Tad Eggleston: Newspaper.

74
00:07:00.290 --> 00:07:03.230
Mark Pracht: No, he's a he's a he's a ferret.

75
00:07:03.640 --> 00:07:05.760
Tad Eggleston: Barrett. That's right. That's right. Sorry.

76
00:07:06.050 --> 00:07:07.600
Mark Pracht: And and

77
00:07:07.990 --> 00:07:18.159
Mark Pracht: as somebody who, friends of mine in high school had pet ferrets which were nasty little creatures, and sorry if you own a ferret. But.

78
00:07:18.280 --> 00:07:19.200
Mark Pracht: my friend.

79
00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:22.099
Tad Eggleston: Peter does. Did. He loved his ferrets.

80
00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:26.710
Mark Pracht: I was fine until they bit me, anyway.

81
00:07:26.710 --> 00:07:29.310
Tad Eggleston: That's kind of where I am with a lot of animals.

82
00:07:29.952 --> 00:07:35.087
Mark Pracht: But I just it is spectacular. And

83
00:07:36.510 --> 00:07:39.949
Mark Pracht: this is one of going to be those things where I'm just gonna be like this is just amazing. Blah blah blah

84
00:07:41.350 --> 00:07:47.719
Mark Pracht: But you know, and it's it's in the great tradition of your hard boiled fiction. You know all of the

85
00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:55.590
Mark Pracht: all of the all of the women are incredibly gorgeous, you know, and the men are all either.

86
00:07:57.660 --> 00:07:59.290
Mark Pracht: Incredibly.

87
00:08:02.580 --> 00:08:08.910
Mark Pracht: Character of that's probably not a great way to put it, but that

88
00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:14.089
Mark Pracht: just there's always there's there's personality in the in, the, in the way they.

89
00:08:14.090 --> 00:08:15.160
Tad Eggleston: Right, right.

90
00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:18.349
Mark Pracht: Or they are just the most masculine thing you've ever seen in.

91
00:08:18.350 --> 00:08:25.920
Mark Pracht: Right? Right? It's it's it's like you've got. You've got your bogarts. But then you've got your Peter Laurie's and your Sydney Green streets.

92
00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:26.290
Mark Pracht: Yes.

93
00:08:26.290 --> 00:08:41.530
Tad Eggleston: Appropriate places, and I love, and I think he nailed it. I can't believe I'm I mean, I should believe, when talking about comics. Stranko is completely reliable. It's just talking about anything else.

94
00:08:41.530 --> 00:08:44.000
Mark Pracht: We don't. We don't need to talk about that.

95
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:44.630
Tad Eggleston: No, no.

96
00:08:44.630 --> 00:08:46.389
Mark Pracht: Jim is Jim is Jim.

97
00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:54.329
Tad Eggleston: Right, but I was about to say, I can't believe I'm quoting Jim Sterenko here. But then I went. I'm quoting him on comics. So okay.

98
00:08:55.460 --> 00:09:03.589
Tad Eggleston: I think he nailed it when he said that, like the animals, were picked on

99
00:09:04.610 --> 00:09:08.880
Tad Eggleston: the the characteristics of the of the 100 character.

100
00:09:08.880 --> 00:09:09.770
Mark Pracht: 100%.

101
00:09:10.579 --> 00:09:10.899
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

102
00:09:10.900 --> 00:09:16.229
Tad Eggleston: You know it was. It wasn't applying human characteristics to animals. It was

103
00:09:16.850 --> 00:09:22.559
Tad Eggleston: taking a human and and and essentially finding its spirit animal.

104
00:09:23.800 --> 00:09:26.733
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, I think I think that

105
00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:38.130
Mark Pracht: there's absolutely truth to that. But I think also it it goes both ways. I mean, I'm sure, like

106
00:09:39.880 --> 00:09:43.480
Mark Pracht: I'm gonna guess that, John Black said as an image

107
00:09:43.910 --> 00:09:49.779
Mark Pracht: they may have been like, maybe we do a detective with anthropomorphized animals, and

108
00:09:50.890 --> 00:09:57.989
Mark Pracht: I think I have to believe that that character was drawn. And then they were like, Okay, I've got it. This is who he is.

109
00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:04.565
Mark Pracht: And then that that expands out from there.

110
00:10:05.310 --> 00:10:08.390
Mark Pracht: It's just I look it.

111
00:10:09.020 --> 00:10:15.430
Mark Pracht: The other thing that I love is like I said. The artwork. The characters

112
00:10:16.150 --> 00:10:21.970
Mark Pracht: feel so very Disney to me. They really do. There's and they feel animated like.

113
00:10:22.870 --> 00:10:23.850
Mark Pracht: You know.

114
00:10:27.690 --> 00:10:35.969
Mark Pracht: When you see anything about animation, you know, there's the transitional frames where characters will distend completely out of any

115
00:10:36.430 --> 00:10:44.370
Mark Pracht: realistic position to create the dynamic of the movement. Right?

116
00:10:44.963 --> 00:10:48.490
Mark Pracht: And I feel like there are panels where it does that there's

117
00:10:49.150 --> 00:10:54.410
Mark Pracht: in Arctic world. There's a scene where the

118
00:10:55.140 --> 00:11:00.280
Mark Pracht: police chief punches the guy who is sleeping with his wife.

119
00:11:01.780 --> 00:11:05.080
Mark Pracht: That's another thing. We should probably say if

120
00:11:05.870 --> 00:11:13.039
Mark Pracht: I know I described it as a detective version of the Robin Hood, the Disney Robin Hood movie. But it is a very adult book.

121
00:11:13.040 --> 00:11:14.500
Tad Eggleston: It's an r rated.

122
00:11:14.500 --> 00:11:15.340
Mark Pracht: Yes.

123
00:11:15.540 --> 00:11:18.429
Tad Eggleston: Disney I mean.

124
00:11:19.750 --> 00:11:22.950
Mark Pracht: Which I mean, I mean, and I'm not like.

125
00:11:22.950 --> 00:11:33.079
Tad Eggleston: This is. This is kind of along the lines of I. I heard once that there was a script that was proposed, and even some initial

126
00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:50.189
Tad Eggleston: drawings done where they tried to sell Jd. Salinger on a Disney version of catcher in the Rye, where Holden Caulfield was like a German shepherd, and like they're just certain things that can't be G rated.

127
00:11:50.560 --> 00:11:51.000
Mark Pracht: That's true.

128
00:11:51.000 --> 00:12:04.119
Tad Eggleston: I feel like hard boiled crime novels. You can't do. G. Rated. You can do the great Mouse detective, Sherlock Holmes can can be G. Rated. It doesn't need to be G. Rated, but it can be dashill. Hammett.

129
00:12:06.490 --> 00:12:09.539
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, I think I think that you know

130
00:12:10.400 --> 00:12:17.779
Mark Pracht: we've seen Hammett Tran adaptations in film during the depths of the Hayes code. So.

131
00:12:17.780 --> 00:12:18.100
Tad Eggleston: Sure.

132
00:12:18.100 --> 00:12:26.390
Mark Pracht: You can do it, and you can do it with style. And and I think that there was

133
00:12:26.870 --> 00:12:29.390
Mark Pracht: a lot more power to inference back then.

134
00:12:30.043 --> 00:12:31.776
Mark Pracht: And I think that

135
00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:42.090
Mark Pracht: not so much anymore. Now, we sort of feel the need to see everything, and I don't know if that's good or bad, but

136
00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:50.630
Mark Pracht: sometimes it's tiresome for me. But it it is

137
00:12:53.990 --> 00:13:04.502
Mark Pracht: it. There is this wonderful dichotomy of these like kind of cartoonish characters, and these horrific or or

138
00:13:06.060 --> 00:13:12.023
Mark Pracht: super sexualized situations that they're in. I think it's it's fascinating. And

139
00:13:13.390 --> 00:13:15.410
Mark Pracht: I don't know. I just think I I

140
00:13:16.790 --> 00:13:21.240
Mark Pracht: I love the way that feels as I'm reading it, that

141
00:13:22.010 --> 00:13:26.906
Mark Pracht: I forgot about the rooster guy. Just amazing.

142
00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:36.789
Mark Pracht: yeah, I mean. And I think that I don't know.

143
00:13:37.060 --> 00:13:39.150
Mark Pracht: You say something. I'm running out of words right now.

144
00:13:40.340 --> 00:13:43.890
Mark Pracht: Because now I'm flipping through the book. And I'm like, Wow, wow! Man.

145
00:13:44.550 --> 00:13:55.919
Tad Eggleston: I mean. This is, I think, one of the great advantages of genre fiction is that by giving you

146
00:13:57.100 --> 00:14:05.150
Tad Eggleston: a trope, by giving you a cliche.

147
00:14:05.150 --> 00:14:05.500
Mark Pracht: Hmm.

148
00:14:06.010 --> 00:14:09.579
Tad Eggleston: It allows you to then focus on

149
00:14:12.640 --> 00:14:21.010
Tad Eggleston: making the best characters and the best sets and the best scenes rather than the best plot.

150
00:14:21.590 --> 00:14:36.068
Tad Eggleston: The plot is just kind of there, and and people all have an idea of where it's going and whatnot, and it becomes way more about, how do you tell the story than what is the story?

151
00:14:36.460 --> 00:14:43.030
Mark Pracht: And there's there's 2 different ways. You can go with that. You can subvert things or deconstruct them.

152
00:14:43.380 --> 00:14:53.110
Mark Pracht: and that's that's fine. You can go right down the line. But the other the what and I. This is what you're saying. It's like it allows you to stylistically

153
00:14:53.270 --> 00:15:06.980
Mark Pracht: go further, because the story is so familiar that like the. I think

154
00:15:08.490 --> 00:15:15.030
Mark Pracht: I think that part of the reason that this works so well with the anthropomorphized characters and doesn't feel silly

155
00:15:15.500 --> 00:15:20.620
Mark Pracht: is because the storyline A takes itself very seriously.

156
00:15:21.776 --> 00:15:30.090
Mark Pracht: But it also is such a familiar genre and such a familiar story. I mean, like

157
00:15:30.520 --> 00:15:33.000
Mark Pracht: every one of these stories that's in this book.

158
00:15:34.260 --> 00:15:39.409
Mark Pracht: And I suppose we should say they're always a new storyline that's coming out.

159
00:15:40.070 --> 00:15:48.759
Tad Eggleston: It's actually it is actually done. It was 4. It was 4 parts in overseas condensed into 2 parts.

160
00:15:48.760 --> 00:15:49.220
Mark Pracht: The Us.

161
00:15:49.220 --> 00:15:52.619
Tad Eggleston: And the second volume came out last year.

162
00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:55.210
Mark Pracht: Okay. Well, I haven't.

163
00:15:55.210 --> 00:15:56.550
Tad Eggleston: Finished reading it yet.

164
00:15:56.550 --> 00:16:09.209
Mark Pracht: I I told Tad that we shouldn't read that because I was like, Oh, it's 4 parts, and there's only 2 out, and I don't want to just finish in the middle. So yeah, I'll be. I'll be buying that at some point. Because.

165
00:16:09.210 --> 00:16:12.605
Tad Eggleston: Or at the very least, at the the

166
00:16:13.780 --> 00:16:22.170
Tad Eggleston: at the dark horse site, it says, concludes in Blacksad, they fall down part 2.

167
00:16:22.170 --> 00:16:32.689
Mark Pracht: I but I mean I I love the world. I love the world so much that I bought the middling video game that we came out with.

168
00:16:32.980 --> 00:16:36.969
Tad Eggleston: Oh, you know I got that as part of a humble bundle. I've played that.

169
00:16:38.040 --> 00:16:38.370
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

170
00:16:38.370 --> 00:16:43.810
Mark Pracht: Mean. It's sort of like, you know, it's 1 of those like telltale games sort of things where it's like, make a choice. Make a choice

171
00:16:43.810 --> 00:16:44.560
Mark Pracht: right? Right?

172
00:16:45.041 --> 00:16:46.969
Mark Pracht: It was. It was.

173
00:16:47.370 --> 00:16:51.500
Mark Pracht: I thought it was okay. Yeah, I I don't. I think I.

174
00:16:51.500 --> 00:17:03.250
Tad Eggleston: I'm not enough of a gamer that, like I have a great ability to judge it. And my biggest problem with telltale games is they mix just enough of the twitch gaming in

175
00:17:03.570 --> 00:17:14.560
Tad Eggleston: to go with the choice gaming that like I'm really bad at twitch gaming when I have to do something where I have to press the the correct buttons in the correct order at a certain speed.

176
00:17:18.470 --> 00:17:18.990
Mark Pracht: Tad, I.

177
00:17:18.990 --> 00:17:21.100
Tad Eggleston: I'm stuck at that spot. I'm.

178
00:17:21.109 --> 00:17:24.169
Mark Pracht: Sorry that your manual dexterity is not great.

179
00:17:24.380 --> 00:17:26.940
Tad Eggleston: No, it's it's not, it's not.

180
00:17:27.310 --> 00:17:27.889
Mark Pracht: But

181
00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:35.547
Tad Eggleston: Lot of skills. That's not one of them, but atari atari. That's the right number of buttons.

182
00:17:36.328 --> 00:17:45.641
Mark Pracht: But it it was one of those things where I I just love this. I actually got this book, the the 1st collected edition.

183
00:17:47.386 --> 00:17:50.230
Mark Pracht: Which is the first? st What is it?

184
00:17:50.790 --> 00:17:51.940
Tad Eggleston: 5, I think.

185
00:17:51.940 --> 00:17:55.930
Mark Pracht: 5, and then I love the section at the back, where it says short stories, and.

186
00:17:55.930 --> 00:17:56.280
Tad Eggleston: Right.

187
00:17:56.280 --> 00:17:56.880
Mark Pracht: One.

188
00:17:58.100 --> 00:18:01.119
Tad Eggleston: I thought there was more than one, at least in the digital.

189
00:18:01.820 --> 00:18:05.170
Mark Pracht: You know, maybe I have the. I have the hard copy. So

190
00:18:05.520 --> 00:18:08.100
Mark Pracht: but yeah, it's short stories. And then there's

191
00:18:10.790 --> 00:18:14.469
Mark Pracht: 1, 4 page story, and then it goes to the sketchbook.

192
00:18:15.780 --> 00:18:16.550
Tad Eggleston: I mean there is.

193
00:18:16.550 --> 00:18:20.109
Mark Pracht: Yeah, it it made me. It made me laugh. I.

194
00:18:20.110 --> 00:18:27.330
Tad Eggleston: Well, no, no cause cause there's there's the like. Cats and dogs is a 2 page story

195
00:18:27.930 --> 00:18:31.809
Tad Eggleston: and spit at the sky is a two-page story.

196
00:18:32.350 --> 00:18:36.860
Tad Eggleston: There are 2 two-page stories, not 1, 4, page story.

197
00:18:41.070 --> 00:18:43.260
Mark Pracht: Oh, okay, all right. Yeah. I see it now, I guess.

198
00:18:44.198 --> 00:18:47.950
Tad Eggleston: Get it straight, Mark.

199
00:18:48.210 --> 00:18:50.130
Tad Eggleston: It is short stories.

200
00:18:50.130 --> 00:18:50.405
Mark Pracht: I

201
00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:53.302
Tad Eggleston: I've been shorter than you thought.

202
00:18:54.180 --> 00:18:58.239
Mark Pracht: I I am. I am unobservant and sad. So

203
00:18:59.060 --> 00:19:03.699
Tad Eggleston: And they're kind of different stories. Yeah, okay.

204
00:19:03.700 --> 00:19:04.580
Mark Pracht: Ha! Ha!

205
00:19:05.060 --> 00:19:05.670
Mark Pracht: Now,

206
00:19:07.420 --> 00:19:15.360
Mark Pracht: but yeah, no, this this collection. I I it was like one of those things where I read it, and then I think it was that Christmas. I bought it for everybody I knew.

207
00:19:15.790 --> 00:19:16.300
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

208
00:19:16.300 --> 00:19:16.750
Mark Pracht: Had any?

209
00:19:16.750 --> 00:19:17.790
Tad Eggleston: I can see that.

210
00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:20.889
Mark Pracht: It's just it's it's lovely.

211
00:19:23.280 --> 00:19:30.419
Tad Eggleston: I like the I mean. I love that so much of it is.

212
00:19:32.340 --> 00:19:38.920
Tad Eggleston: I mean, they're from Spain, and it's set in the United States, and they clearly do their homework.

213
00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:55.970
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I'm looking at, you know, right near the end. And we're both Chicago area guys. You're an actual Chicago. And I'm just tangentially Chicago and I call myself a Chicago, and to everybody but you cause like you could, you could call my bluff and go. Huh!

214
00:19:56.650 --> 00:20:00.852
Tad Eggleston: You lived in the city for 8 months, and.

215
00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:04.579
Mark Pracht: I will never call anybody's blood on anything. So there you go.

216
00:20:04.580 --> 00:20:14.269
Tad Eggleston: But but anyway, like at the very end, when they're at Union Station, and admittedly one of them could also come straight out of the untouchables.

217
00:20:14.410 --> 00:20:14.920
Mark Pracht: Right

218
00:20:15.580 --> 00:20:26.690
Tad Eggleston: But but, like all of this stuff, is like they clearly do, their.

219
00:20:28.903 --> 00:20:31.869
Mark Pracht: They're very serious about having the right.

220
00:20:32.620 --> 00:20:39.420
Tad Eggleston: Architecture when they're in New York. They're in New York when they're, you know. No, Amarillo, and and and

221
00:20:43.710 --> 00:20:52.120
Tad Eggleston: I don't know Amarillo and and New Orleans as well, but I would be willing to bet that they don't get them wrong.

222
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:54.960
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, you know. Look I.

223
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:59.300
Tad Eggleston: Do know, Ratan ironically. New Mexico.

224
00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:11.519
Tad Eggleston: Because it's where, if you take the train to go to Philmont Scout Ranch, it's the stop that you get off, and they pick you up to take you, and I feel like I've seen that house.

225
00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:16.170
Tad Eggleston: You know.

226
00:21:16.170 --> 00:21:21.150
Mark Pracht: Yeah. Now, I mean, look I not only

227
00:21:22.360 --> 00:21:27.099
Mark Pracht: you know I've been to New Orleans much of it is the same, but it's also like

228
00:21:27.780 --> 00:21:30.070
Mark Pracht: this is also the New Orleans of the fifties.

229
00:21:30.370 --> 00:21:31.140
Tad Eggleston: Right.

230
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:38.340
Mark Pracht: So I, and clearly, like the Chicago, is the Chicago of the fifties, like Greyhound station, doesn't exist.

231
00:21:38.340 --> 00:21:39.260
Tad Eggleston: Right, right.

232
00:21:39.260 --> 00:21:45.079
Mark Pracht: But I mean, you know, they're like they clearly do do their homework. There's no doubt about that.

233
00:21:48.970 --> 00:21:56.330
Mark Pracht: it has to just like the way that the the characters are drawn.

234
00:21:56.600 --> 00:21:59.950
Mark Pracht: like the amount of research that must go into that just to get.

235
00:21:59.950 --> 00:22:00.550
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

236
00:22:00.550 --> 00:22:02.779
Mark Pracht: The animal elements, right?

237
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.740
Mark Pracht: Because they're you know, they're amazing.

238
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.389
Mark Pracht: I I mean, there's this, the

239
00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:16.670
Mark Pracht: like. The the Sebastian character in

240
00:22:16.810 --> 00:22:19.500
Mark Pracht: the New Orleans story, which what was the title.

241
00:22:25.220 --> 00:22:28.100
Mark Pracht: is silent hell

242
00:22:28.730 --> 00:22:29.530
Tad Eggleston: Right.

243
00:22:29.530 --> 00:22:35.010
Mark Pracht: I mean, it's like one of those what a

244
00:22:35.630 --> 00:22:42.899
Mark Pracht: somebody is going to own one of these dogs and get really angry. One of those really ugly dogs that can't get keep their tongue in their mouth. And it's just like.

245
00:22:43.320 --> 00:22:44.110
Tad Eggleston: Right.

246
00:22:44.110 --> 00:22:48.900
Mark Pracht: It's amazing. It's truly amazing. I I don't, I mean, and and this

247
00:22:49.130 --> 00:22:53.999
Mark Pracht: this God, this whole section here where they're in New Orleans, and they're having the meal

248
00:22:54.330 --> 00:22:58.610
Mark Pracht: like in the courtyard, and there's all the shadows from the

249
00:22:58.800 --> 00:23:04.450
Mark Pracht: it's just like, if nothing else. If you were sitting out there and you're like.

250
00:23:05.290 --> 00:23:19.269
Mark Pracht: Gosh! I don't know. I don't really like detective. Well, a. If you're if you don't like detective fiction, I I don't know why you're listening to us. Talk about this stuff right? But but even if you don't like it, like the artwork is so.

251
00:23:20.050 --> 00:23:21.460
Mark Pracht: if I mean.

252
00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:22.849
Tad Eggleston: Well and and like.

253
00:23:22.850 --> 00:23:25.610
Mark Pracht: European. Of course the artwork's amazing. I mean, what do you.

254
00:23:26.510 --> 00:23:31.320
Tad Eggleston: But but I mean as I flipped through it, like

255
00:23:31.630 --> 00:23:35.260
Tad Eggleston: the dialogue is good, and and

256
00:23:36.310 --> 00:23:42.569
Tad Eggleston: you know I'm not telling people not to read it, but you can get so much of the story without it.

257
00:23:42.900 --> 00:23:46.820
Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, I. And that's, I think that that's also a tribute to the whole.

258
00:23:47.190 --> 00:23:48.090
Tad Eggleston: Right.

259
00:23:48.090 --> 00:23:51.210
Mark Pracht: Disney-esque animation kind of feel to it, because.

260
00:23:51.210 --> 00:23:51.680
Tad Eggleston: Right.

261
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:55.950
Mark Pracht: It's like, I said, that all the facial expressions are huge.

262
00:23:56.420 --> 00:24:07.640
Mark Pracht: and you know, part of that is part of that is probably also because they use these anthropomorphized characters, which allows you to do a more extreme sort of.

263
00:24:07.970 --> 00:24:08.290
Tad Eggleston: Right.

264
00:24:08.652 --> 00:24:11.550
Mark Pracht: Facial expressions, you know, because if you drew.

265
00:24:12.580 --> 00:24:19.730
Mark Pracht: if you drew a human being like a pure human being doing some of these facial expressions, it probably would look silly.

266
00:24:21.890 --> 00:24:23.250
Tad Eggleston: I love.

267
00:24:23.250 --> 00:24:25.849
Mark Pracht: How Kevin Mcguire pulls it off I don't know.

268
00:24:25.850 --> 00:24:26.550
Mark Pracht: Pleasure.

269
00:24:27.139 --> 00:24:27.729
Tad Eggleston: The

270
00:24:28.320 --> 00:24:31.229
Tad Eggleston: This is. This is this is kind of tangential.

271
00:24:32.327 --> 00:24:36.890
Tad Eggleston: But I love European panels.

272
00:24:40.140 --> 00:24:53.557
Tad Eggleston: they have a much, even though, like almost all of the panels here are are straight box panels. You know. We're not doing weird shapes we're we're we're doing some insets.

273
00:24:54.450 --> 00:25:15.289
Tad Eggleston: mostly, if we break a panel, it's with a text box, not with a character and some splash pages. But in spite of that, they, they to me often have much more creative and flowing layouts, because they're not tied to a grid

274
00:25:15.310 --> 00:25:30.499
Tad Eggleston: in any sense of the word. You know, if they decide that the top row can be smaller and we need a bigger middle row. And you know, okay, this row is going to have 6 panels, and this row is going to have 2, and this one's gonna have 5.

275
00:25:32.560 --> 00:25:36.770
Tad Eggleston: You know it. It's all

276
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:44.790
Tad Eggleston: rectangular panels, but like. There seem to be almost no rules beyond that

277
00:25:45.384 --> 00:25:52.200
Tad Eggleston: other than I think most of the time when he, at least in this, when he does an inset. It's for a close up.

278
00:25:55.040 --> 00:26:00.259
Tad Eggleston: It's like like zooming in on the the combination lock.

279
00:26:00.500 --> 00:26:01.640
Mark Pracht: Right, or.

280
00:26:04.110 --> 00:26:05.420
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, now.

281
00:26:05.750 --> 00:26:07.320
Mark Pracht: It's, it's yeah.

282
00:26:07.900 --> 00:26:09.930
Tad Eggleston: And the coloring is just masterful.

283
00:26:09.930 --> 00:26:18.279
Mark Pracht: Yeah, both both the the black and white flashbacks, or sometimes blue tinge flat, you know, depending on who.

284
00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:23.630
Tad Eggleston: Flashbacks tend to be white and one color variant.

285
00:26:23.630 --> 00:26:24.390
Mark Pracht: Right.

286
00:26:27.650 --> 00:26:38.369
Tad Eggleston: And there's a much lusher palette of colors for the rest of the book.

287
00:26:39.800 --> 00:26:42.399
Tad Eggleston: but still kind of muted.

288
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:48.550
Tad Eggleston: I guess the word I'd use with some exceptions.

289
00:26:49.320 --> 00:26:50.110
Mark Pracht: I mean, if that makes sense.

290
00:26:50.110 --> 00:26:52.069
Tad Eggleston: Those exceptions stand out even more.

291
00:26:52.650 --> 00:26:54.194
Mark Pracht: I'm guessing that

292
00:26:58.050 --> 00:27:02.280
Mark Pracht: and Guarnito does everything cause it just.

293
00:27:02.280 --> 00:27:03.439
Tad Eggleston: I think he does.

294
00:27:03.830 --> 00:27:04.530
Mark Pracht: So.

295
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:05.610
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

296
00:27:06.730 --> 00:27:14.190
Mark Pracht: I'm sorry I just. I was just flipping through this, and I got the very end of Storanco's intro world renowned Renaissance man.

297
00:27:14.693 --> 00:27:18.220
Tad Eggleston: I feel like Jim wrote that, too.

298
00:27:18.220 --> 00:27:18.900
Mark Pracht: Of course

299
00:27:22.800 --> 00:27:31.560
Mark Pracht: I mean little little little little aside. Everybody writes your own bios, like, Yeah, everybody does. So

300
00:27:36.120 --> 00:27:42.180
Mark Pracht: particularly notable are guardino's. I'm sure I'm saying that wrong, and I apologize. If you're listening.

301
00:27:42.630 --> 00:27:52.960
Mark Pracht: Guarnito Guarnito, I don't know muted color passages giving the impression of the forties and fifties, crime fillers that have come to define the Noir experience.

302
00:27:54.090 --> 00:27:57.320
Mark Pracht: His use of light and shadow is no less memorable

303
00:28:04.710 --> 00:28:12.020
Mark Pracht: that actually, you know, that just popped into my head. One thing that I've always wanted to read and I've never been able to find it is.

304
00:28:14.550 --> 00:28:21.169
Mark Pracht: Steranko did an adaptation of that movie outland in heavy metal.

305
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:27.979
Mark Pracht: and people have always talked to me about it, how it's brilliant, and I've never been able to find

306
00:28:28.300 --> 00:28:35.680
Mark Pracht: the issues or a collected edition that wasn't ungodly expensive. So

307
00:28:36.750 --> 00:28:43.870
Mark Pracht: but anyway, that's a stranco comment. Who cares? Anyway? I

308
00:28:46.330 --> 00:28:50.550
Mark Pracht: I mean, you know, in a way, I kind of feel the same way, like

309
00:28:52.100 --> 00:28:56.589
Mark Pracht: I feel the same way when we were talking about the rocketeer, where it's like.

310
00:28:56.740 --> 00:29:05.512
Mark Pracht: I just think it's brilliant. I think people should read it. I think I think it's gorgeous. I think that it's fun. I think that it's

311
00:29:07.270 --> 00:29:12.590
Mark Pracht: incredibly accessible. And I think that it's and.

312
00:29:12.590 --> 00:29:14.030
Tad Eggleston: And and

313
00:29:15.430 --> 00:29:23.723
Tad Eggleston: both a quick read and a long read, a long reread so like if you're intimidated by the thickness, and you're like

314
00:29:24.270 --> 00:29:29.370
Tad Eggleston: You can get through it fast, but but it's infinitely rereadable.

315
00:29:29.370 --> 00:29:29.980
Mark Pracht: Right.

316
00:29:29.980 --> 00:29:32.070
Tad Eggleston: Because it's so lush.

317
00:29:33.500 --> 00:29:42.950
Mark Pracht: I mean. And and also it's basically for 5 stories collected. So there's plenty of places where you can stop and

318
00:29:44.700 --> 00:29:46.120
Mark Pracht: give yourself a break.

319
00:29:47.290 --> 00:29:48.010
Tad Eggleston: Right.

320
00:29:53.670 --> 00:29:55.459
Mark Pracht: It's just so it's so.

321
00:29:56.810 --> 00:29:59.289
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, the the art is.

322
00:30:00.090 --> 00:30:04.950
Mark Pracht: the art is just incredibly amazing. That's just all I can say about it. I mean, like it's it's

323
00:30:07.420 --> 00:30:07.950
Mark Pracht: it's.

324
00:30:07.950 --> 00:30:10.050
Tad Eggleston: I mean honestly, and I.

325
00:30:10.050 --> 00:30:11.539
Mark Pracht: Tuning in so human.

326
00:30:11.540 --> 00:30:16.430
Tad Eggleston: I love Disney's Robin Hood, but you almost don't do justice to the art.

327
00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:17.520
Mark Pracht: -

328
00:30:17.780 --> 00:30:19.140
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, I think, that.

329
00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:26.999
Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's kind of that style, but it's it's got a greater level of detail and humanization than.

330
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:37.149
Mark Pracht: Well, that's that's that's a simplistic thing when you we can animate it. This is always. This is always when, whenever, like

331
00:30:39.040 --> 00:30:41.300
Mark Pracht: DC. Puts out a.

332
00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:51.320
Mark Pracht: you know, a direct to video adaptation of one of their great stories. And they're like, Oh, we're using the original artwork as a as a guide. And it's like.

333
00:30:51.500 --> 00:30:56.069
Mark Pracht: Yeah, but it's never gonna look that way because you can't you like

334
00:30:57.210 --> 00:31:10.349
Mark Pracht: I would. My my argument would be that if we took this book and turned it into an animated film, or turned one of the stories into an animated film. It would probably it would not be as

335
00:31:10.460 --> 00:31:12.420
Mark Pracht: detailed or

336
00:31:17.300 --> 00:31:29.029
Mark Pracht: or gorgeous right? Because it's got to move right. It's the same way. I think that if you actually took that Disney Robin Hood and turned it into a graphic novel.

337
00:31:29.360 --> 00:31:34.730
Mark Pracht: It would probably look a lot better, even with the same artists working on the art. You know.

338
00:31:35.060 --> 00:31:39.899
Tad Eggleston: Possible. I think this is where I'm going to say the coloring comes in, though, because I think

339
00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:42.810
Tad Eggleston: I think that Disney Robin Hood had.

340
00:31:44.410 --> 00:31:45.520
Tad Eggleston: Is there.

341
00:31:45.520 --> 00:31:53.069
Mark Pracht: They're very flat colors, but that's that's all that was possible at the time. Yeah, now, you know.

342
00:31:53.370 --> 00:31:58.198
Tad Eggleston: I mean something that comes up a lot in our heavy metal book club is that

343
00:32:00.760 --> 00:32:09.109
Tad Eggleston: Europeans were doing more even with 4 color colors than than most American comic companies did.

344
00:32:09.350 --> 00:32:11.910
Tad Eggleston: just because they were willing to put the time in.

345
00:32:11.910 --> 00:32:16.490
Mark Pracht: Well, sure, but that's also because you know.

346
00:32:19.810 --> 00:32:22.470
Mark Pracht: If we if we believe Harlan Ellison.

347
00:32:22.980 --> 00:32:25.640
Mark Pracht: you know comic books are an American art form.

348
00:32:25.900 --> 00:32:30.209
Mark Pracht: but the Europeans grabbed hold of it and

349
00:32:31.270 --> 00:32:33.950
Mark Pracht: decided it really was an art form. I mean.

350
00:32:33.950 --> 00:32:34.720
Tad Eggleston: Right.

351
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:42.810
Mark Pracht: You know you can't. You can't look at a Mobius.

352
00:32:43.470 --> 00:32:44.090
Tad Eggleston: Right.

353
00:32:44.090 --> 00:32:50.479
Mark Pracht: Comic strip, graphic novel whatever you want to call it. And you can't see that there is a lot.

354
00:32:50.950 --> 00:33:00.609
Mark Pracht: And that's that's also because you know at that point, aside from maybe Will Eisner.

355
00:33:01.764 --> 00:33:05.269
Mark Pracht: Nobody was spending the time right.

356
00:33:05.460 --> 00:33:08.250
Mark Pracht: No, it would it would. You had to crank these things out. You had to do it.

357
00:33:08.250 --> 00:33:10.220
Tad Eggleston: One month I mean I almost.

358
00:33:10.430 --> 00:33:14.880
Mark Pracht: In this, you know, in the sixties seventies into the eighties.

359
00:33:15.030 --> 00:33:19.459
Mark Pracht: you know. You couldn't do what we see now where somebody's like. Oh, you know what I'm

360
00:33:20.090 --> 00:33:27.119
Mark Pracht: 6 months behind on this book, and you know we'll it'll come out when I'm done, and that's not.

361
00:33:29.120 --> 00:33:36.199
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I almost wonder how much of that is actually not just

362
00:33:37.630 --> 00:33:40.569
Tad Eggleston: the culture of the comics, but the culture of

363
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:53.986
Tad Eggleston: the places. You know your Europe. If you don't have 6 weeks vacation, like you've got a terrible job in the United States. If you have 2 weeks vacation and you use it all. You're a slacker.

364
00:33:54.870 --> 00:33:56.520
Tad Eggleston: Well, in hell

365
00:33:58.330 --> 00:34:02.679
Mark Pracht: Yes, yes and no. But I mean, it's like it's still. I think it's just that.

366
00:34:03.230 --> 00:34:05.920
Mark Pracht: I mean, certainly, like when you look at heavy metal

367
00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:14.359
Mark Pracht: like there is a they're asking those artists to do a lot there. Most of them are not doing as many pages

368
00:34:14.530 --> 00:34:15.380
Mark Pracht: right.

369
00:34:15.889 --> 00:34:19.039
Mark Pracht: 6 to 8 pages. I think, if I remember right, I haven't read heavy.

370
00:34:19.040 --> 00:34:20.040
Tad Eggleston: Depends on the story.

371
00:34:20.040 --> 00:34:23.685
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I haven't read in a long, long time, but

372
00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:30.760
Tad Eggleston: And most of heavy metal is reprints from Europe, so I don't know how they got split up.

373
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:38.063
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, I guess we would talk about metal, Roland. You know the original but

374
00:34:39.909 --> 00:34:43.410
Mark Pracht: I mean it. It was just I think I think that

375
00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:49.139
Mark Pracht: clearly, with what happened in the fifties, with the the juvenile delinquency scare and the

376
00:34:49.280 --> 00:35:01.649
Mark Pracht: I mean for as popular and as as important as like the Ec. Books were in terms of moving the genre, you know, moving new genres in and and slightly more adult skewing things.

377
00:35:05.750 --> 00:35:17.310
Mark Pracht: I think that that the damage that was done in that period resonated out for a long, long time to the point where and they didn't really like that wasn't something that happened in Europe.

378
00:35:17.790 --> 00:35:19.609
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, they. And so.

379
00:35:20.230 --> 00:35:23.779
Mark Pracht: You know there was a Ghetto. There was a ghettoization of the art form.

380
00:35:24.640 --> 00:35:29.329
Tad Eggleston: Well, and also superheroes were late to Europe.

381
00:35:29.690 --> 00:35:30.430
Mark Pracht: Sure.

382
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:39.369
Tad Eggleston: Because superheroes were response to fascism in the United States.

383
00:35:39.770 --> 00:35:44.760
Tad Eggleston: At the same time, we're we're to. To do that in Europe

384
00:35:45.340 --> 00:35:50.079
Tad Eggleston: meant printing something that was going to get you killed because you were already Nazi occupied.

385
00:35:51.700 --> 00:35:55.590
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, you know. And then you got Judge Dred, who.

386
00:35:55.590 --> 00:35:55.930
Tad Eggleston: Right.

387
00:35:55.930 --> 00:36:00.060
Mark Pracht: Is a fascist, but he's our fascist. Yeah.

388
00:36:00.060 --> 00:36:05.679
Tad Eggleston: Well, kind of. I haven't finished reading the book on him. He he's he's like.

389
00:36:05.680 --> 00:36:06.030
Mark Pracht: My.

390
00:36:06.030 --> 00:36:10.269
Tad Eggleston: Between our fascist and satire on.

391
00:36:10.661 --> 00:36:13.796
Mark Pracht: It's a hundred percent satire, but it is

392
00:36:17.148 --> 00:36:19.289
Mark Pracht: There was. There's a documentary.

393
00:36:20.170 --> 00:36:21.710
Mark Pracht: It's like the

394
00:36:22.570 --> 00:36:30.660
Mark Pracht: 1st 20 or 30 years of 2,000 ad. And they talk about all the main characters, and there's a whole section on dread. And they were talking about

395
00:36:34.890 --> 00:36:36.290
Mark Pracht: you can't.

396
00:36:38.410 --> 00:36:45.059
Mark Pracht: The story doesn't function unless you just allow yourself to be like. Of course, they're the judges.

397
00:36:45.720 --> 00:37:05.810
Mark Pracht: you know. And let's let's also, you know, like I think judge dread is a fact like it's 1 of my favorite books, because it's so complicated. And it's so funny. And it's also so. I mean, it's it's badass, I mean, that's that's but I mean, it's like the you're just as likely

398
00:37:07.530 --> 00:37:08.740
Mark Pracht: there is.

399
00:37:10.620 --> 00:37:21.750
Mark Pracht: Actually, I should. I don't. I don't. I'm not gonna call dread fascist. Totalitarian. Yeah. Authoritarian. Because

400
00:37:23.040 --> 00:37:27.193
Mark Pracht: you just as likely to get a story where someone attempts to.

401
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:33.719
Mark Pracht: there's the the Judge Cal story where he tries to take over everything.

402
00:37:33.970 --> 00:37:36.880
Mark Pracht: install himself as the the you know

403
00:37:37.230 --> 00:37:39.759
Mark Pracht: the King of Mega City one, and

404
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:42.780
Mark Pracht: dread it's like that's not the law.

405
00:37:43.910 --> 00:37:44.990
Tad Eggleston: Have you?

406
00:37:45.140 --> 00:37:58.919
Mark Pracht: And that's you know, it's like the what was the song? Anthrax, the book of the laws, the Bible to him, you know. And it's like that means, and that means it applies to everyone, no matter who you are, you know.

407
00:37:59.160 --> 00:37:59.760
Mark Pracht: and.

408
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:07.279
Tad Eggleston: Have you read? I am the law. How Judge Dread predicted our future from Michael Mulker came years ago.

409
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:08.420
Mark Pracht: I have not.

410
00:38:08.420 --> 00:38:22.050
Tad Eggleston: I. I've started it and haven't finished it in part, because I haven't read enough. Judge dread either. So like I kinda have been as I have time going back and forth between reading it and then going reading the stuff that it's talking about, and

411
00:38:22.820 --> 00:38:24.329
Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah, I like, every time I.

412
00:38:24.330 --> 00:38:29.040
Tad Eggleston: Very well reviewed, reviewed, and and won an eisner in 24.

413
00:38:30.560 --> 00:38:39.450
Mark Pracht: Yeah, every every time I'm at like a convention where 2,000 ad has a booth or something, I always end up buying another collected edition of dread.

414
00:38:39.570 --> 00:38:44.210
Mark Pracht: I just I think it. I think it's like you.

415
00:38:45.110 --> 00:38:46.950
Mark Pracht: It's so funny.

416
00:38:49.690 --> 00:38:59.289
Mark Pracht: there's 1 story that I will never forget, because it always made me laugh. Was there was a a story they did that was sort of a parody of

417
00:39:04.940 --> 00:39:11.409
Mark Pracht: Tennessee Williams, and it was he was a writer who would.

418
00:39:11.780 --> 00:39:20.440
Mark Pracht: He was sort of like a method acted writer like he would have to do like he was writing a crime story would actually have to commit the crimes.

419
00:39:20.590 --> 00:39:22.849
Mark Pracht: And it was just like

420
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:32.573
Mark Pracht: it was so funny. And he was this little like like, it starts out with the story that he wrote where this, like super dashing

421
00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:39.610
Mark Pracht: like gentleman thief, is like robbing buildings and stuff like that. And then

422
00:39:40.070 --> 00:39:57.910
Mark Pracht: at the end, when dread catches him. It's like this little balding fat guy like hanging off the side of a building with all of this equipment trying to break into this thing. It's just like, it's so funny. I just this stuff makes me laugh, I and and it also.

423
00:39:58.370 --> 00:40:05.229
Mark Pracht: I also like the judge. Death stuff is amazing like

424
00:40:06.060 --> 00:40:11.069
Mark Pracht: I. Anyway, we're like again. We're floundering off topic. But

425
00:40:11.570 --> 00:40:12.670
Tad Eggleston: No, I'm I'm.

426
00:40:12.670 --> 00:40:13.020
Mark Pracht: I.

427
00:40:13.020 --> 00:40:18.849
Tad Eggleston: Because I I need to read more judge Threads, so that might even be something we look at at some point, for

428
00:40:18.850 --> 00:40:21.090
Tad Eggleston: no, sir, have you pick a story arc or something?

429
00:40:21.090 --> 00:40:25.330
Mark Pracht: It would totally work in this. Yeah, it. It's

430
00:40:28.030 --> 00:40:42.205
Tad Eggleston: Because we we had a 2,080 book club for a while, until John Dunning got busy. Because, like people want him to write stuff, God. Why can't my podcast be the priority man.

431
00:40:43.010 --> 00:40:45.189
Mark Pracht: Hey? If somebody asked me to write stuff, I I'm.

432
00:40:45.190 --> 00:40:47.860
Tad Eggleston: I know you. I get it.

433
00:40:49.140 --> 00:40:52.372
Mark Pracht: Somebody. Somebody ask me to write stuff. Please.

434
00:40:52.730 --> 00:40:59.249
Tad Eggleston: But he pretty much. I mean, we we focus pretty exclusively away from dread in terms of our 2,000 Ad. Because I mean.

435
00:40:59.250 --> 00:41:00.470
Mark Pracht: I think I think that if you.

436
00:41:00.470 --> 00:41:06.820
Tad Eggleston: It's not that he dislikes 2,000, or dislikes dread, but he thinks it's like the the most overrated part of 2,018.

437
00:41:06.820 --> 00:41:09.999
Mark Pracht: Well, in a way it is.

438
00:41:10.390 --> 00:41:12.832
Mark Pracht: but it's also like for me.

439
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:18.350
Mark Pracht: It was so unlike stuff that we were getting in America.

440
00:41:18.350 --> 00:41:19.200
Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely!

441
00:41:19.200 --> 00:41:24.652
Mark Pracht: I mean, it's a it was I was finding, you know. We started this this book club with

442
00:41:25.050 --> 00:41:27.760
Mark Pracht: Mistree, and I sort of discovered

443
00:41:28.130 --> 00:41:31.030
Mark Pracht: dread and mystery about the same time, and.

444
00:41:31.030 --> 00:41:31.730
Tad Eggleston: Right.

445
00:41:31.730 --> 00:41:36.429
Mark Pracht: You know it was just. It was breaking away from something, and you know, and if you.

446
00:41:36.430 --> 00:41:39.049
Tad Eggleston: Ever read pat mills, martial law.

447
00:41:39.490 --> 00:41:47.479
Mark Pracht: You bet I have really that that book is fucking weird.

448
00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:48.370
Tad Eggleston: It is.

449
00:41:48.370 --> 00:41:53.579
Mark Pracht: I just, and it's that book is almost too nihilistic for me.

450
00:41:53.870 --> 00:41:58.620
Mark Pracht: It's almost it's just like, you know, I like.

451
00:42:01.310 --> 00:42:04.989
Mark Pracht: I guess there's a point in life when I'm like

452
00:42:05.700 --> 00:42:09.909
Mark Pracht: I get a little turned off when something is about how much you hate something.

453
00:42:10.200 --> 00:42:14.799
Mark Pracht: you know, because I think that book is all about how much Pat Mills hates superheroes.

454
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:15.670
Tad Eggleston: Right.

455
00:42:15.670 --> 00:42:16.319
Tad Eggleston: That's fair.

456
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:18.979
Mark Pracht: I mean, you know, and and I think that.

457
00:42:18.980 --> 00:42:22.880
Tad Eggleston: Okay Kevin O'neill's art is so pretty.

458
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:23.600
Mark Pracht: It's

459
00:42:24.750 --> 00:42:32.370
Mark Pracht: it's Kevin O'neill's art is pretty in an extremely ugly way, which is one of my favorite things in the world.

460
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:35.720
Mark Pracht: Okay, for anybody like.

461
00:42:35.980 --> 00:42:41.359
Mark Pracht: 1st time I went to San Antonio, Texas. I I thought it was the most

462
00:42:42.100 --> 00:42:55.579
Mark Pracht: beautifully ugly city I'd ever seen in my life, and God bless you if you live in San Antonio, because I love the city. But it was like tire, you know, huge steel and glass buildings right next to these like Gothic

463
00:42:58.600 --> 00:42:59.540
Mark Pracht: you know.

464
00:42:59.940 --> 00:43:07.180
Mark Pracht: stonework, you know, gargoyles and stuff. It was like, man. This is like what Gotham City would look like, you know. But

465
00:43:10.660 --> 00:43:17.309
Mark Pracht: no, it's the reason like I've I've read martial law. I've read a lot of martial law.

466
00:43:18.900 --> 00:43:22.080
Mark Pracht: I know it's not in existence anymore. But I I think

467
00:43:22.370 --> 00:43:29.049
Tad Eggleston: Though the Deluxe edition is available 468 pages, so it might be. All of it.

468
00:43:29.050 --> 00:43:34.559
Mark Pracht: Yeah, that's probably all of it. I've read. I read quite a bit of that. And then but

469
00:43:35.270 --> 00:43:37.219
Mark Pracht: like, when the boys came out.

470
00:43:37.510 --> 00:43:39.819
Mark Pracht: I was like. I read martial law.

471
00:43:40.570 --> 00:43:43.280
Mark Pracht: I liked martial law, and

472
00:43:44.600 --> 00:43:51.059
Mark Pracht: here comes heresy. I thought that the boys became the thing. It was supposedly parodying.

473
00:43:52.260 --> 00:43:53.320
Tad Eggleston: A little bit.

474
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:56.129
Mark Pracht: I that that's my opinion.

475
00:43:56.130 --> 00:43:59.739
Tad Eggleston: Are we talk? Are we talking the the TV show or the comic.

476
00:43:59.740 --> 00:44:01.180
Mark Pracht: The comic. I've never watched.

477
00:44:01.180 --> 00:44:04.130
Tad Eggleston: I haven't. I've watched some of the TV show, but.

478
00:44:04.130 --> 00:44:15.219
Mark Pracht: Watched one episode of the TV show. And I said, Yeah, that's exactly why I read like one. I read like one story arc. And I was like, Okay.

479
00:44:15.220 --> 00:44:15.960
Mark Pracht: I for me.

480
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:23.310
Tad Eggleston: I read all of it, but mostly because I fell in love with Huey, and I can't remember the girl's name right now.

481
00:44:27.070 --> 00:44:32.130
Tad Eggleston: The the one from the beginning. That's the the farm girl superstar that.

482
00:44:32.130 --> 00:44:35.449
Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah, the one that turns, yeah, that the new.

483
00:44:35.620 --> 00:44:37.130
Tad Eggleston: Right, right.

484
00:44:37.290 --> 00:44:38.559
Mark Pracht: Becomes their like.

485
00:44:38.720 --> 00:44:54.080
Tad Eggleston: Right. I fell in love with their their relationship, and and I was rooting for them. But I went back I mean a like a more disgusting set of superheroes, has never been written except maybe in martial law.

486
00:44:54.080 --> 00:44:54.670
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

487
00:44:55.330 --> 00:45:08.869
Tad Eggleston: And BI eventually got pretty tired of of Butcher and his crew other than Huey, but I thought that was part of the point, I think part of the point was, Huey was supposed to be the only likable one.

488
00:45:08.870 --> 00:45:10.360
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean.

489
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:11.700
Tad Eggleston: Does he find his way.

490
00:45:11.700 --> 00:45:17.430
Mark Pracht: It. It's certainly, you know I like, and part of the part of the Roblom

491
00:45:18.550 --> 00:45:25.980
Mark Pracht: like when you, when you adapt things like butcher.

492
00:45:27.190 --> 00:45:31.270
Mark Pracht: butcher is one of those characters that, like people, are gonna gravitate towards right.

493
00:45:31.270 --> 00:45:31.980
Tad Eggleston: Alright!

494
00:45:31.980 --> 00:45:40.629
Mark Pracht: It's just like he's the guy who can say what he wants to say, and he does what he wants to do, and he's angry, and he's blah blah, you know it's it's the wolverine factor right.

495
00:45:40.990 --> 00:45:43.359
Tad Eggleston: Or or negan, and walking dead.

496
00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:47.389
Mark Pracht: Right? Yeah, well, and like. And the thing about it is is like.

497
00:45:48.070 --> 00:45:54.080
Mark Pracht: Negan is like, what like, I'm always fascinated by that. It's like, okay, yeah, this guy's a a lunatic.

498
00:45:54.220 --> 00:45:55.770
Tad Eggleston: And and.

499
00:45:56.190 --> 00:46:02.550
Mark Pracht: People just love it. And I think there's a transgressive thing that people enjoy. But it's also like

500
00:46:06.810 --> 00:46:11.890
Mark Pracht: I don't know. There's a video that went around. Vince Gilligan was talking at the writers Guild

501
00:46:12.450 --> 00:46:18.039
Mark Pracht: Awards, or the conference, and and he was talking about how

502
00:46:19.300 --> 00:46:23.430
Mark Pracht: that maybe we need to start writing good guys again.

503
00:46:23.530 --> 00:46:24.239
Mark Pracht: And I, you know.

504
00:46:24.240 --> 00:46:26.880
Tad Eggleston: Maybe I could go for that.

505
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:30.310
Mark Pracht: Here's the guy who, you know, created Walter White. And I'm like.

506
00:46:31.060 --> 00:46:36.620
Mark Pracht: I I think that that is a good idea. But I also think that

507
00:46:40.870 --> 00:46:49.580
Mark Pracht: everybody looks for this binary answer to every question. It's like, Yeah, people really love Darth Vader, right? And that was one of the examples he used.

508
00:46:50.095 --> 00:46:54.839
Mark Pracht: People do, because there's something compelling about that visual. And there's something

509
00:46:57.919 --> 00:47:05.690
Mark Pracht: like once, you know the backstory. There's something tragic about it and but

510
00:47:07.970 --> 00:47:11.760
Mark Pracht: anybody can find transcendence in any kind of character.

511
00:47:12.090 --> 00:47:14.229
Tad Eggleston: I do think people I like.

512
00:47:15.160 --> 00:47:22.390
Mark Pracht: Most of the time most of the time. I am not interested in reading another wolverine story, but

513
00:47:24.310 --> 00:47:36.810
Mark Pracht: particularly, I mean particularly Chris Claremont, could find ways to find transcendence. I think about that 1st miniseries. You know the Japan one. I think that there was something there about about

514
00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:43.339
Mark Pracht: this loner guy who wanted connection just wanted it. And.

515
00:47:43.340 --> 00:47:43.840
Tad Eggleston: Yes.

516
00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:48.919
Mark Pracht: Didn't know how to ask for it, didn't know how to let go of his own ego to do it.

517
00:47:50.640 --> 00:47:52.140
Tad Eggleston: So here's my

518
00:47:53.220 --> 00:47:53.800
Mark Pracht: Anyway.

519
00:47:54.280 --> 00:48:01.729
Tad Eggleston: Here's here's my my question off of Vince Gilligan, and I'm trying to think I feel like I should know some. And and

520
00:48:02.620 --> 00:48:06.510
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I guess the best batman is written this way. But

521
00:48:06.850 --> 00:48:10.320
Tad Eggleston: but I think we see a lot of

522
00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:30.589
Tad Eggleston: great bad guys that are humanized and given some level of justification. So you don't think that they're completely bad. You think that you know they're victims of circumstance and whatnot. What we don't see enough of, I think, are imperfect good guys, people who are basically good.

523
00:48:31.730 --> 00:48:34.770
Tad Eggleston: But but then.

524
00:48:36.570 --> 00:49:04.209
Tad Eggleston: having to deal with the fact that they're also human, that sometimes they make wrong calls. Sometimes they. They then have to figure out how to deal with that, and like I mean, I didn't watch much of it. But like I'm not talking the the 24 where? Where Jack Bowers, the good guy, and therefore it's okay that he tortures people. It like it should be. If he decides it's okay to torture people. It should haunt him.

525
00:49:05.930 --> 00:49:08.700
Tad Eggleston: Well, you know, you know what I mean.

526
00:49:08.700 --> 00:49:19.649
Mark Pracht: Yeah, no, I I was actually, I was actually a pretty big fan of 24 when it was on. Just because I enjoyed the conceit of it. It was ridiculous at times, but I I liked.

527
00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:34.529
Mark Pracht: I thought that the the tension of knowing that there's this ticking clock made you go. Okay.

528
00:49:34.820 --> 00:49:37.340
Mark Pracht: gotta do this. Now, you know.

529
00:49:37.600 --> 00:49:48.690
Mark Pracht: there's a nuclear bomb. Gonna go off in Los Angeles, right, you know. Got to do it now. Got to do it now right? And it's not. It's not realism. It's not real. I mean, like, I think, that that

530
00:49:52.030 --> 00:50:01.460
Mark Pracht: and somebody who writes I think that far too often people start assigning

531
00:50:04.500 --> 00:50:08.860
Mark Pracht: realism to things that aren't intended to be real. You know.

532
00:50:08.860 --> 00:50:09.210
Tad Eggleston: Right.

533
00:50:09.210 --> 00:50:12.340
Mark Pracht: That it's just supposed to like, like, you know. Look

534
00:50:13.411 --> 00:50:22.459
Mark Pracht: the whole conceit of this podcast, the pulp thing, the genre of fiction. You know, all of that is designed around things

535
00:50:23.100 --> 00:50:26.259
Mark Pracht: like characters, do things that are horrible

536
00:50:26.700 --> 00:50:28.799
Mark Pracht: because they feel they have to.

537
00:50:29.210 --> 00:50:29.930
Tad Eggleston: Right.

538
00:50:30.316 --> 00:50:33.410
Mark Pracht: Our very first, st our very 1st like I.

539
00:50:34.350 --> 00:50:43.900
Mark Pracht: I bring it back to mystery a lot. But I just love that character. She does terrible things all the time, and and yet.

540
00:50:45.310 --> 00:50:46.740
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. That's a good example.

541
00:50:46.740 --> 00:50:50.109
Mark Pracht: And it, and and has a.

542
00:50:50.490 --> 00:50:51.870
Tad Eggleston: Mike Tree.

543
00:50:52.130 --> 00:50:54.630
Mark Pracht: Michael Michael Tree.

544
00:50:54.630 --> 00:50:55.030
Tad Eggleston: Right.

545
00:50:56.620 --> 00:51:02.060
Mark Pracht: But you know, and the thing is is that it is.

546
00:51:05.580 --> 00:51:10.370
Mark Pracht: I think, that this goes into this strange thing that I think is happening in

547
00:51:13.090 --> 00:51:22.199
Mark Pracht: fandom. Right is that I think that people are assigning more and more importance to to stuff that shouldn't

548
00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:31.370
Mark Pracht: man. I feel like I'm I make this speech almost every episode. But you know more and more importance to these things that are not intended to be

549
00:51:31.650 --> 00:51:33.440
Mark Pracht: important. Right.

550
00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:33.790
Tad Eggleston: Right.

551
00:51:33.790 --> 00:51:36.720
Mark Pracht: Like that you should be able to read.

552
00:51:39.670 --> 00:51:44.580
Mark Pracht: Look you, you should be able to read a mystery revenge, tale

553
00:51:44.900 --> 00:51:46.999
Mark Pracht: and be like that was cool.

554
00:51:47.270 --> 00:51:53.680
Mark Pracht: I understood why she did that. I understood that that, and I also know that that is not the real world.

555
00:51:53.870 --> 00:52:02.329
Mark Pracht: That is not like that, that Max Allen Collins is not saying. This is how you should deal with these situations.

556
00:52:02.330 --> 00:52:08.219
Tad Eggleston: Honestly, I think I think that at least from my perspective. And and this is where, like

557
00:52:08.540 --> 00:52:18.749
Tad Eggleston: the fact that I'm a teacher, even when I'm not teaching comes in. I love to be able to go. That was cool. But let's also look at it in a sociological perspective.

558
00:52:18.750 --> 00:52:19.090
Mark Pracht: Sure.

559
00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:20.540
Tad Eggleston: What, what.

560
00:52:21.172 --> 00:52:23.070
Mark Pracht: Mean, and that's.

561
00:52:23.070 --> 00:52:30.720
Tad Eggleston: Specifically of the the issue where where she was in the the quickie Mart.

562
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:31.560
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

563
00:52:32.420 --> 00:52:36.619
Tad Eggleston: You know, and I was actually, really, really happy that they didn't make them black criminals.

564
00:52:36.620 --> 00:52:37.180
Mark Pracht: Yep.

565
00:52:37.950 --> 00:52:38.680
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

566
00:52:39.460 --> 00:52:41.389
Tad Eggleston: Because that would, and the easy trope.

567
00:52:41.390 --> 00:52:42.090
Mark Pracht: Sure

568
00:52:43.820 --> 00:52:50.239
Mark Pracht: the you know, but and like I'm not saying that that this stuff isn't worth talking about on a

569
00:52:53.930 --> 00:52:55.070
Mark Pracht: critical.

570
00:52:55.070 --> 00:52:56.979
Tad Eggleston: A podcast, or in a classroom.

571
00:52:56.980 --> 00:53:05.870
Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah, whatever. Yeah, no. Like all of that. But it's it's that people seem to want.

572
00:53:07.070 --> 00:53:12.879
Mark Pracht: And again, it kind of comes back to what Vince Gilligan said and how it felt

573
00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:39.619
Mark Pracht: binary to me that, like this, this person is either we're either going to write these really noble people who do the right thing, and you know, or they're the bad guys who we should, you know. And it's like, Look, I thought the sopranos was one of the greatest things I ever watched in my life. I know that, Tony, you know, every time Tony Soprano had an opportunity to do something good. And didn't. It hurt me? It hurt me deeply because I was like I want it. It's the same, Matt.

574
00:53:39.620 --> 00:53:55.640
Tad Eggleston: I am. I am looking at the write up at Hollywood, reporter what you're talking about, and and I do. I do like this one line from him, and I haven't seen the whole video. So I don't. But but the one line that's in the in the the subtitle here

575
00:53:56.560 --> 00:53:58.899
Tad Eggleston: is that, looking back on

576
00:53:59.430 --> 00:54:11.179
Tad Eggleston: Walter Weiss, I white, I think I'd rather be celebrated for creating someone a bit more inspiring, so that to me is more of an introspective than a.

577
00:54:11.180 --> 00:54:11.580
Mark Pracht: Sure.

578
00:54:11.580 --> 00:54:14.160
Tad Eggleston: The whole industry needs to. It's like.

579
00:54:14.160 --> 00:54:14.790
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

580
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:25.380
Tad Eggleston: I've done this great thing, and it's not even saying that I am upset, that I'm being celebrated. It's that, like my challenge to myself is to now be celebrated for

581
00:54:25.690 --> 00:54:27.659
Tad Eggleston: something that inspires people rather.

582
00:54:27.660 --> 00:54:27.990
Mark Pracht: Well.

583
00:54:27.990 --> 00:54:32.919
Tad Eggleston: But I hope I'm not inspiring people to become meth.

584
00:54:33.420 --> 00:54:43.339
Mark Pracht: A mess. Look thing that I'll say is, when you create a character as indelible as Walter White.

585
00:54:45.130 --> 00:54:52.450
Mark Pracht: It's easy to be like. Well, you know, I'd like to do something different now, right? You know. And it's like, that's a but it. It's

586
00:54:53.190 --> 00:54:58.939
Mark Pracht: because I think there's value. There's value in all of those things as long as you don't get lost in.

587
00:54:59.070 --> 00:55:05.259
Mark Pracht: because I I do think I do think. And I see it. A lot is people get lost in these

588
00:55:05.690 --> 00:55:11.469
Mark Pracht: fantasies, you know, and not even in like. I can't function in life kind of way. But I mean, like, like.

589
00:55:13.700 --> 00:55:20.269
Mark Pracht: like, just like man. Put that down and read something else, you know, like

590
00:55:20.550 --> 00:55:26.340
Mark Pracht: try try war and peace, or try something, you know, like it. It.

591
00:55:26.690 --> 00:55:36.259
Mark Pracht: Obviously I love graphic storytelling. I love comic books. I love graphic novels, but it's also like, I think it pains me that there are

592
00:55:36.590 --> 00:55:42.939
Mark Pracht: novels out there that I read that are beautiful, wonderful works of art that

593
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:48.039
Mark Pracht: people now just don't want to deal with, because it's all words, you know.

594
00:55:48.810 --> 00:55:53.600
Tad Eggleston: I'll listen to him. Give me a list. I'll put them on my car listening. Sure.

595
00:55:53.600 --> 00:55:53.940
Mark Pracht: All right.

596
00:55:53.940 --> 00:55:58.440
Tad Eggleston: I managed to sit down and read a read a book, read a book at least a couple of times a year, which is.

597
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:00.279
Mark Pracht: I mean, yeah, and and.

598
00:56:00.280 --> 00:56:02.119
Tad Eggleston: But I'm always listening to books.

599
00:56:02.120 --> 00:56:05.570
Mark Pracht: Believe me, I get it, but it's like I look.

600
00:56:05.770 --> 00:56:09.450
Mark Pracht: Everybody's got their thing. But it's like it's just sort of like

601
00:56:11.540 --> 00:56:15.529
Mark Pracht: I'm trying not to sound like a old man yelling at the moon.

602
00:56:15.950 --> 00:56:32.989
Tad Eggleston: Actually, I'm flipping through the article that has more of his quotes, and the thing that popped out at my head, though that isn't mentioned by either him or or the article is, he was being presented the Patty Chaievsky Laurel Award.

603
00:56:33.070 --> 00:56:46.199
Tad Eggleston: you know Patty Chaievsky, of course, being probably most famous, for I'm mad as hell, which is actually a perfect example of a general good guy, but not a

604
00:56:46.670 --> 00:56:47.710
Tad Eggleston: perfect one.

605
00:56:48.100 --> 00:56:50.020
Tad Eggleston: A very flawed good guy.

606
00:56:50.020 --> 00:56:50.400
Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah.

607
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:55.329
Tad Eggleston: Gets caught up in his own. You know. Network is is.

608
00:56:55.330 --> 00:56:55.769
Mark Pracht: No, no, no.

609
00:56:55.770 --> 00:57:02.260
Tad Eggleston: Brilliant, not just for for sticking it to the man, but then for, like becoming the man and not realizing it.

610
00:57:02.260 --> 00:57:08.480
Mark Pracht: Well, I all all. It's

611
00:57:08.610 --> 00:57:11.590
Mark Pracht: yeah. I just think it's reductive, that's all. I mean.

612
00:57:11.590 --> 00:57:12.110
Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.

613
00:57:12.110 --> 00:57:35.960
Mark Pracht: Making it, making it. This one thing or this other thing is is, and I know, and I know he's talking. It's real easy for somebody who created something as indelible and as difficult as Walter White, and saying, maybe I should try something else, because you know what, every time you finish something that works. You're like, okay. Now, maybe I should try something else. If you are.

614
00:57:35.960 --> 00:57:38.760
Tad Eggleston: It's also like an acceptance speech.

615
00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:50.560
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, so it's gonna be reductive. I wonder, I wonder how how how much different it would be if we, if we had him in front of us for half an hour to have a conversation.

616
00:57:50.560 --> 00:57:56.689
Mark Pracht: I'm a hundred percent sure that I could. We could have a very deep and very interesting conversation.

617
00:57:56.690 --> 00:57:58.530
Tad Eggleston: You could do. You wouldn't need me.

618
00:57:58.836 --> 00:57:59.449
Mark Pracht: Yeah, but.

619
00:57:59.450 --> 00:58:00.123
Tad Eggleston: Include me.

620
00:58:00.460 --> 00:58:04.890
Tad Eggleston: I don't. I don't have a podcast and I don't have enough.

621
00:58:04.890 --> 00:58:13.330
Tad Eggleston: All you need to have a podcast is zoom and and and buzzsprout account, and.

622
00:58:13.330 --> 00:58:16.480
Mark Pracht: Somebody, somebody who wants to talk to me.

623
00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:17.150
Tad Eggleston: Right.

624
00:58:17.150 --> 00:58:20.265
Mark Pracht: Other other than you, Ted but

625
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:22.580
Tad Eggleston: Well, Shawn joins us sometimes, too.

626
00:58:22.580 --> 00:58:22.900
Mark Pracht: Sure.

627
00:58:22.900 --> 00:58:24.730
Tad Eggleston: That's 2 people that want to talk to you.

628
00:58:24.730 --> 00:58:29.689
Mark Pracht: And we're gonna we're gonna talk about. We're gonna talk about some Kirby in another 2 weeks, 2 weeks.

629
00:58:29.690 --> 00:58:30.030
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

630
00:58:30.030 --> 00:58:31.687
Mark Pracht: 2 weeks.

631
00:58:33.245 --> 00:58:35.770
Mark Pracht: But no it e

632
00:58:38.130 --> 00:58:42.790
Mark Pracht: I'm I don't know. I don't even know how we got to this point in this conversation.

633
00:58:42.790 --> 00:58:50.400
Tad Eggleston: Well, we were talking about reductive nature of stuff, and it's making me think, have you ever read Neil? Postman's amusing ourselves to death?

634
00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:50.870
Mark Pracht: Yes.

635
00:58:51.760 --> 00:59:00.479
Tad Eggleston: One of the things that that I was thinking of recently, I was actually even talking to a student about. It is like postman talks about

636
00:59:00.990 --> 00:59:07.589
Tad Eggleston: reminds us how the the Lincoln Douglas debates weren't debates the way we think of them. They weren't. They weren't like

637
00:59:07.930 --> 00:59:25.989
Tad Eggleston: 2 min, 2 min, 1 min. 1 min they were like Lincoln spoke. For an hour Douglas spoke. For an hour. Lincoln responded. For an hour Douglas responded. For an hour they went back and forth, asking each other 5 min questions, and people stood and watched the whole thing.

638
00:59:25.990 --> 00:59:26.590
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

639
00:59:27.257 --> 00:59:32.040
Tad Eggleston: Because in that era that was what they had been trained to.

640
00:59:32.040 --> 00:59:32.440
Mark Pracht: Yes.

641
00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:49.470
Tad Eggleston: The one thing, and, unlike postman, I don't think it's postman tends to think that that the shortening of our attention span is exclusively bad. I don't know if I go that far, but now that we're in the tick tock age.

642
00:59:51.110 --> 00:59:55.370
Tad Eggleston: almost everything is going to start from a very reduced see, ya.

643
00:59:55.370 --> 00:59:59.040
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, and the thing is is that you don't. There? There's a depth to it.

644
00:59:59.460 --> 01:00:00.080
Tad Eggleston: Right.

645
01:00:00.220 --> 01:00:01.030
Mark Pracht: That.

646
01:00:03.090 --> 01:00:09.770
Mark Pracht: You know, you're not a Tiktok video about

647
01:00:10.380 --> 01:00:14.720
Mark Pracht: anything political. Right? Let's let's put. Let's just I.

648
01:00:14.720 --> 01:00:15.050
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

649
01:00:15.050 --> 01:00:17.879
Mark Pracht: Use the dreaded P. Word, because I don't like to talk about.

650
01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:19.799
Tad Eggleston: It's not. It's not dreaded to me, but.

651
01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:20.390
Mark Pracht: I know, but.

652
01:00:20.390 --> 01:00:21.529
Tad Eggleston: Status. Threat of you.

653
01:00:21.700 --> 01:00:25.030
Mark Pracht: But you know, like.

654
01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:26.989
Tad Eggleston: About anything intellectual.

655
01:00:27.160 --> 01:00:30.969
Mark Pracht: Yeah, it's it's gonna be this, like, I think, this

656
01:00:31.870 --> 01:00:33.950
Mark Pracht: You know. And it's like, okay, yeah. But

657
01:00:34.680 --> 01:00:40.090
Mark Pracht: what about this? What about this? What about this? But we are being trained to not

658
01:00:41.550 --> 01:00:54.468
Mark Pracht: say, what about this? And what about this? And what about this? It's like, oh, I like that share share. And suddenly you're sharing and sharing and sharing, and it's. And it's just, it's it's multiplying. And it's it's

659
01:00:55.980 --> 01:00:58.240
Mark Pracht: progressing. And it's not.

660
01:00:59.590 --> 01:01:02.760
Mark Pracht: It's by its very nature cannot be a full picture.

661
01:01:02.910 --> 01:01:10.490
Mark Pracht: And and by the. And for the most part it's going to be something

662
01:01:11.770 --> 01:01:15.770
Mark Pracht: that reinforces what you already thought right?

663
01:01:16.030 --> 01:01:16.485
Mark Pracht: Yeah,

664
01:01:16.940 --> 01:01:17.890
Tad Eggleston: Well, it's just.

665
01:01:17.890 --> 01:01:29.590
Mark Pracht: Funny I like I was. I was just thinking about this this morning because I'm actually working on a new play that through a very pop culture kind of lens. I'm trying to deal with this very subject.

666
01:01:30.603 --> 01:01:31.426
Mark Pracht: And

667
01:01:35.600 --> 01:01:39.009
Mark Pracht: It strikes me as so interesting how.

668
01:01:40.680 --> 01:01:45.149
Mark Pracht: for every level it works this way of like.

669
01:01:45.740 --> 01:01:52.360
Mark Pracht: if you go on to Youtube and you watch like comic book collecting shows.

670
01:01:52.670 --> 01:01:57.789
Mark Pracht: it's the same thing. I'm going to tell you what you already think, and tell you that you're right.

671
01:01:58.260 --> 01:01:59.330
Mark Pracht: and then

672
01:01:59.740 --> 01:02:14.520
Mark Pracht: I'll tell you that this other person is an idiot or an asshole, because they think otherwise, or that this company is going to go out of business. You know the whole go woke, go, broke thing, or whatever it is like. It's it's it's all so.

673
01:02:18.260 --> 01:02:22.989
Tad Eggleston: Go, woke, go broke, say the people who can't even define what woke is.

674
01:02:22.990 --> 01:02:32.010
Mark Pracht: Well, you know, and then what? But you know it's like the whole thing with that kid who plays spider-man on that friendly neighborhood spider-man show.

675
01:02:32.940 --> 01:02:33.980
Tad Eggleston: I miss this.

676
01:02:34.333 --> 01:02:42.120
Mark Pracht: He he did an interview right before the story, which is a really good cartoon. I loved every single minute of it.

677
01:02:42.120 --> 01:02:44.259
Tad Eggleston: A friendly neighborhood, spider-man.

678
01:02:44.260 --> 01:02:58.019
Mark Pracht: Your friendly, your friendly neighborhood spider-man. I was really charmed by the show, but when he right before it came out he did some interview, and he's like, you know. I was worried that it was going to be annoying, and woke.

679
01:02:58.300 --> 01:03:03.538
Mark Pracht: and I think that having watched the show

680
01:03:04.680 --> 01:03:11.640
Mark Pracht: to my definition of woke. The show is pretty woke. It's got a really diverse cast. It's

681
01:03:13.670 --> 01:03:19.503
Mark Pracht: changes the the race and sex of many characters that you know and love

682
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:21.570
Tad Eggleston: Acknowledges feelings, and.

683
01:03:21.570 --> 01:03:23.570
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's it's.

684
01:03:23.800 --> 01:03:25.719
Tad Eggleston: Being kind is a good thing.

685
01:03:25.720 --> 01:03:29.990
Mark Pracht: But it's not preachy about it.

686
01:03:30.410 --> 01:03:33.479
Mark Pracht: and I think that that's what he was trying to say.

687
01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:34.300
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

688
01:03:34.300 --> 01:03:36.099
Mark Pracht: That I mean, it's.

689
01:03:36.100 --> 01:03:36.800
Tad Eggleston: It's like.

690
01:03:37.100 --> 01:03:44.159
Mark Pracht: Like. And of course, you know, there was a whole thing, and there was all these people on my socials who were like, well, I'm not gonna watch that now, and I'm like.

691
01:03:45.860 --> 01:03:54.939
Mark Pracht: it's so rich I like, if now I'm going way off the reservation. But it's so funny how people will be like, like

692
01:03:55.580 --> 01:03:58.980
Mark Pracht: the people that you should really really want to like.

693
01:04:01.100 --> 01:04:08.940
Mark Pracht: like the people who who misspeak or use a word in the wrong way, and have no real

694
01:04:09.530 --> 01:04:14.000
Mark Pracht: agenda behind it, or anything like. He worked on the show, which is clearly

695
01:04:14.480 --> 01:04:16.930
Mark Pracht: got all of these values that you want.

696
01:04:17.100 --> 01:04:21.799
Mark Pracht: And he said things the right way, and they were like, Oh, this kid's done blah blah blah! And it's like.

697
01:04:22.820 --> 01:04:27.049
Mark Pracht: meanwhile people can say the most horrible things, and you're never going to be able to do anything to them.

698
01:04:27.050 --> 01:04:27.650
Tad Eggleston: Where this.

699
01:04:27.650 --> 01:04:29.420
Mark Pracht: They're not tied into your world.

700
01:04:29.850 --> 01:04:33.699
Tad Eggleston: I'm gonna make another another plug, have you?

701
01:04:34.610 --> 01:04:39.005
Tad Eggleston: John Ronson wrote a book.

702
01:04:42.320 --> 01:04:43.939
Tad Eggleston: What was his book?

703
01:04:44.730 --> 01:04:49.730
Tad Eggleston: I mean, he's written many books, but they're oh, yes, so you've been publicly shamed.

704
01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:53.319
Tad Eggleston: It is all about

705
01:04:55.160 --> 01:05:05.489
Tad Eggleston: the the essentially Twitter culture thing that came up of. Oh, you did something wrong. Let's pile on immediately, because and like

706
01:05:06.330 --> 01:05:18.460
Tad Eggleston: 2 things that he discovered, the the 1st is the people that it winds up hurting. The most are the people who didn't have much standing to begin with, so suddenly. That's the only thing they're known for.

707
01:05:19.030 --> 01:05:23.140
Mark Pracht: Or they were in general aligned with your viewpoint, anyway.

708
01:05:23.140 --> 01:05:26.263
Tad Eggleston: Often often. That's the case as well.

709
01:05:26.710 --> 01:05:29.590
Mark Pracht: You've just taken somebody who was possibly an ally, and.

710
01:05:29.590 --> 01:05:30.420
Tad Eggleston: Right, right.

711
01:05:30.420 --> 01:05:31.260
Mark Pracht: Ruin them. Yeah.

712
01:05:31.260 --> 01:05:41.449
Tad Eggleston: And second, the way not to be canceled is just deny, deny, deny, denied, doesn't matter how much evidence there is. As long as you say it didn't happen.

713
01:05:41.450 --> 01:05:43.939
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, you know I

714
01:05:44.630 --> 01:05:48.839
Mark Pracht: like, and the thing about it is is like, look you, can you can.

715
01:05:50.940 --> 01:05:56.569
Mark Pracht: You can say whatever you want to say about whatever you know, but like the people who.

716
01:05:57.360 --> 01:06:00.249
Mark Pracht: in my opinion, really should be canceled in this world.

717
01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:03.206
Mark Pracht: you're never gonna be able to touch them, because

718
01:06:03.590 --> 01:06:05.450
Mark Pracht: they don't care what you think.

719
01:06:06.070 --> 01:06:08.779
Mark Pracht: any more than you care what they think. Right?

720
01:06:08.890 --> 01:06:11.620
Mark Pracht: So anyway, this is getting way deeper than I want?

721
01:06:11.620 --> 01:06:13.760
Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah, but like.

722
01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:31.499
Tad Eggleston: This is what happens on 22 panels. Man, we go deep, whether we mean to or not, because because a I don't know how not to. And B people that I like, even when they don't want to tend to also not know how not to. But we can wrap it up because you

723
01:06:31.500 --> 01:06:31.830
Tad Eggleston: yeah

724
01:06:31.830 --> 01:06:50.240
Tad Eggleston: laundry to do. I have a role playing game to play and record. It will be the next 22 panels episode. What I will say it kind of is a closing thing, is one of my secret reasons that I push comics so hard for so many different things is, I feel like.

725
01:06:50.920 --> 01:07:00.320
Tad Eggleston: aside from the fact that as a medium they force more interaction between the size of your brain, more interaction with the stuff than any other medium does.

726
01:07:02.120 --> 01:07:06.289
Tad Eggleston: I feel like they're kind of a secret way to to

727
01:07:06.550 --> 01:07:13.730
Tad Eggleston: attract the lower attention culture, because because it doesn't feel like the same commitment.

728
01:07:14.340 --> 01:07:26.029
Tad Eggleston: But then suddenly, you're I mean my favorite compliment I ever get at school, and I don't think it's ever ever meant as a compliment is Mr. E. You make me think about things.

729
01:07:29.043 --> 01:07:30.309
Tad Eggleston: And I think I think.

730
01:07:30.310 --> 01:07:33.100
Mark Pracht: Well, Mr. E. You make me think about things, and.

731
01:07:33.321 --> 01:07:35.089
Tad Eggleston: And you're ready to go. Do your lawn.

732
01:07:35.090 --> 01:07:38.509
Mark Pracht: I have to. I have a I have a laundry to do, and I have a show to close.

733
01:07:38.510 --> 01:07:41.079
Tad Eggleston: Show to do so so oh, break a leg.

734
01:07:41.080 --> 01:07:44.937
Mark Pracht: Oh, pitch, pitch. Pr pr, okay,

735
01:07:46.110 --> 01:08:04.359
Mark Pracht: this is very early days. I was just made aware of this. I am actually going to have for those of you who might be in the Chicago or Evanston area. I am going to be doing a signing of copies of the 4 Color trilogy at bookends and beginnings in Evanston on April first.st

736
01:08:04.670 --> 01:08:05.700
Tad Eggleston: Fantastic.

737
01:08:05.700 --> 01:08:09.645
Mark Pracht: Maybe it's a giant April fool's joke. Who knows but

738
01:08:10.040 --> 01:08:14.320
Tad Eggleston: Well, if it is, I'll meet you there, and we'll go to dinner.

739
01:08:15.016 --> 01:08:23.080
Mark Pracht: But yes, apparently you know that it's very early days. This is just recently been brought to my attention. So hopefully.

740
01:08:23.080 --> 01:08:27.959
Tad Eggleston: We'll have time to plug it 2 more times. Yep before then on the air.

741
01:08:28.529 --> 01:08:35.779
Tad Eggleston: For Mark Prott. This has been the pulp blotter on 22 panels, and we will see you after the next page.