Bonus Episode: With Great Power #215...22 Panels with Duane Murray

Tad chats with Duane Murray!

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Transcript

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Tad Eggleston: Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back to 22 panels. My guest today is Dwayne Murray, who? I got a cop to something. Dwayne. I haven't gone back and listened to the recording from this morning. But if you wind up listening to this morning's episode, I think I misnamed you as a Larry Mcmurtry character.

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Duane Murray: There is. There's something with that right? I think there is.

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Tad Eggleston: yeah, no, I think I said I was talking to to Dwayne Moore.

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Duane Murray: Right, right, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Who who was in last picture show Texasville. Dwayne's depressed when the Light Goes and rhino ranch, which are 5 of my favorite books. I'm really annoyed that the 2 that are my favorite of those Texasville, and when the light goes are the ones that

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Tad Eggleston: there aren't audio versions yet, and that's how I do most of my rereading, and even most of my prose reading period, and like I want to read Texasville again. But it's like the biggest of them, and I'm not as good at reading prose as I was when I was younger, both in terms of finding the time and just in terms of having the

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Tad Eggleston: yeah

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Tad Eggleston: patience to go through the words. And there's not a comic book version, and there's not an audible version. So.

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Duane Murray: It's funny, you know. I've actually tried to read infinite jest 3 times, and I've never.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that's 1 that I haven't haven't managed to to.

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Duane Murray: That's a good candidate, for like a a double speed audio book. I feel like.

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Tad Eggleston: The the audio book that I still haven't gotten through that I need to take another crack at is Alan Moore's Jerusalem.

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Duane Murray: When.

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Tad Eggleston: Which I've listened to like 30 h of which is like a little less than half of it.

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Duane Murray: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: And like I just, I wasn't able to focus well enough. So like the 30 h Mark, I'm like.

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Tad Eggleston: I'm only halfway there. I don't remember half of what I've heard. We're hearing about characters that I don't know. I'm gonna have to start this over sometime. But it's not gonna be today.

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Duane Murray: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: And I'd even planned it to start on a long drive, and just

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Tad Eggleston: for whatever reason, I was in not the right headspace to follow along with it. So one day one day

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Tad Eggleston: that I mean most of the time I do better with audiobooks. But sometimes it's like I just.

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Tad Eggleston: I have a racing brain. Yeah, I'm always thinking. One of the things I like about a good audio book is it can control my thinking, particularly when I'm driving and driving takes up enough of my brain that it's only a little part of my brain that's available. But that also means that if I

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Tad Eggleston: can't focus on the book. If I'm thinking about

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Tad Eggleston: how to end world hunger, or or what book club to start, or any of the other random things that I think about like I can't even hear the audiobook.

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Duane Murray: No. Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.

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Duane Murray: And then you have to go back.

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Duane Murray: Redo the chat. Yeah, it's it's yeah. It's bad.

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Tad Eggleston: So

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Tad Eggleston: to comic books, now that I've copped to to calling you the wrong name, and we've talked about great Larry Mcmurtry books.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean. Honestly, I think that's that's his masterpiece

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Tad Eggleston: series more than the Lonesome Dove I mean. I love the 4 Lonesome Dove books. They're amazing. But give me the Duane Moore saga.

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Duane Murray: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean just the the the picture of of a man from his teenage years through his old age.

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Tad Eggleston: you know. Slice of Americana slice of Texas.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Apolitical, but not really.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Character. The characters as apolitical as you can be while actually still caring about being good.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: That makes sense.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: You know.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I mean, I always thought that the 3rd one Duane's depressed. Just the title was like,

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Tad Eggleston: you know, I mean, I assume you know, last picture show most people know last picture show to go from last picture show to the the book about the main character that's actually called Duane's depressed and has him

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Tad Eggleston: going to a therapist, you know. It's like, Wait a minute. This Texas guy.

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Duane Murray: That's actually Dwayne's depressed is is my favorite, and not because it was probably the mantra of my twenties. But.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: It's too. It's actually my, it's my favorite.

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Tad Eggleston: It's phenomenal.

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Duane Murray: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean, really my favorite are Texasville through when the light goes.

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Duane Murray: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: When the light goes, I actually read in one sitting in public, even

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Tad Eggleston: actually. And and part of it is, there was there was a Denny's that I used to spend lots of late nights at, because because

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Tad Eggleston: one of the waitresses was like a mother to me, so I'd show up. I'd grab a cup of coffee, I'd

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Tad Eggleston: sometimes have some pie, and like

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Tad Eggleston: tip her 3 times the bill at the end of the evening, and she took care of me.

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Tad Eggleston: And one night I went, and I read Duane's depressed cover to cover

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Tad Eggleston: or not, Dwayne suppressed when the light goes cover to cover, and I still had time. So I'm like, I'm going to start Stephen King's on writing, and the next thing I knew the sun was coming up, and I, and I finished reading

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Tad Eggleston: King's book on writing.

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Duane Murray: Wow!

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Tad Eggleston: Because I'd sat in a booth at Denny's for like 8 h and just read 2 books, cover cover.

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Duane Murray: I've only done that. The road is the only book I've done that with.

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Tad Eggleston: The road.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, format.

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Tad Eggleston: Mccarthy.

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Duane Murray: Yeah. The only.

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Tad Eggleston: I haven't read the physical version. I read the recent graphic novel adaptation which I thought was phenomenal. I don't think it's a physical one that I could have read.

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Duane Murray: Hmm.

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Tad Eggleston: I read on the road, and I think 2 sittings.

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Duane Murray: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: I think the road would have been too intense. I think.

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Duane Murray: With.

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Tad Eggleston: Stop. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's why I never got to it in in prose.

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Duane Murray: Yeah. It's a.

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Tad Eggleston: But why I was all over. The graphic novel version when it came out, is like, I've heard amazing things about this. I want to read it, but

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Tad Eggleston: I need to be able to do it in a shorter time, and I can't make pictures in my head, and it always seemed like the one where I was going to need to envision things.

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Duane Murray: Right, yeah, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: So, having somebody else envision them for me was was really important.

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Duane Murray: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: So yeah. But you first.st

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, we're going to go new first.st We're gonna go new 1st coming up soon. March 19.th So a little bit more than a month

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Tad Eggleston: you have. Who are the power pals

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Tad Eggleston: which I was lucky enough to read the 1st issue of, because you were kind enough to send it to me, and I, freaking, loved it.

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Tad Eggleston: Go ahead. So so start with the the like front counter pitch. You're at a comic shop.

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Tad Eggleston: Who are you selling this to? And how are you selling it to them?

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Duane Murray: I don't even know who I'm well, yeah. The elevator pitch from the film parlance is these 2 former teen actors who are now washed up and long for the days when they thought they were going to have fame, and in wanting to get that fame back, they put on the costumes that they had on the failed TV show.

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Duane Murray: and they go out to bring attention to themselves and end up in a in a viral video. And in doing so. They realize, you know, if we if we could maybe fight some crime and get get these viral videos, we could be famous again.

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Duane Murray: And of course one does it for the fame, and the other one does it for the true desire to help people, and they go forth

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Duane Murray: trying to to stop crimes, and in doing so attract the attention of of an international crime boss, who now wants wants to kill them

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Duane Murray: for real.

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Tad Eggleston: Doesn't he? I mean, since you gave hints beyond issue one. I'm going to ask the mildly spoilery question. Doesn't he also own their rights?

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Duane Murray: Yes, yes, yes, oh, that's what gets him going, is he? He? So you where you've read so it it

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Duane Murray: the power pals end up, disrupting his life even more.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay. Yeah. No.

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Duane Murray: Inadvertently, but in doing so he just gets he wants them more and more dead as time goes on. You're right. And the 1st issue is just basically

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Duane Murray: he's he's told. Oh, you own those characters. And now they're just running around with them and and getting all the attention for it. And he just as a

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Duane Murray: as a guy who doesn't like to be taken advantage of, wants to wants to stop them from doing that

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Duane Murray: right, and

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Duane Murray: issues go on. They end up affecting his business. I'm making quotations business more and more, and in doing.

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Tad Eggleston: You're making me think of

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Tad Eggleston: Pete Paselthwaite and and usual suspects.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, the fact you didn't know that you were stealing from Kaiser. So.

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Duane Murray: Exactly.

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Tad Eggleston: Is the only reason that you're still alive.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It is is that kind of thing. And I I've compared it to pineapple express inadvertently steal from the drug. Lord! And now he's trying to kill them. And it's you know.

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Tad Eggleston: Right, right.

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Duane Murray: And it's got that Buddy Buddy comedy kind of feel to it.

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Tad Eggleston: And I think I also feel the need to clarify. Washed up is like overstating their fame.

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Duane Murray: Yes.

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Duane Murray: They were never. Yeah, there was nothing I get, and that their agent mentions. That is like you. You never had anything to begin with, like they they.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Duane Murray: But I've seen washed up.

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Tad Eggleston: Can't have a coma comeback.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, if you never came in the exactly.

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Tad Eggleston: They they were the guys that were on billboards for for the show that got canceled after the pilot.

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Duane Murray: Exactly.

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Tad Eggleston: Crapped out, essentially.

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Duane Murray: Which, you know, we we had remember, like in the nineties, we had those failed attempts at these superheroes.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Duane Murray: The original. Was it new mutants, or something, and or general.

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Tad Eggleston: Excel, maybe. Yeah, no, I think so.

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Duane Murray: And we've no. Now on Youtube, we we can sort of that old Justice League pilot like all these when superhero.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, I know, I remember, and and like

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Tad Eggleston: hate the number of people that I have to talk around because they've wound up being bad actors. But but there's a writer that I once adored who who wrote a series with a number of different artists called Global Frequency, and for a while its pilot episode was like the Holy Grail of.

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Tad Eggleston: because it was really good and still didn't manage to.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, no, no, even what's his like? It? It went longer than a pilot episode. But bendis's powers.

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Tad Eggleston: Right that made 2 seasons.

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Duane Murray: Did you.

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Tad Eggleston: And that really it. Yeah, it really infuriated me because

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Tad Eggleston: the second season wound up being who killed Power girl.

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Duane Murray: Right, right.

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Tad Eggleston: Because Sony was convinced that they had to start somewhere else.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: And I actually thought the second season was better than the 1st season, but they just didn't even have an A. The 1st season wasn't bad, but it wasn't great, and the reasons it wasn't great were all in places that they diverted from.

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Duane Murray: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean preacher made it 4 years, I think, but essentially had the same problem, which is like the entire 1st season.

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Tad Eggleston: is essentially the 1st issue of Preacher, right? Only they felt the need to explain more than than Garth and Steve ever bothered to.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like, no, you're you're spending too much time on this.

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Duane Murray: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Get them on the road.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, for sure.

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Tad Eggleston: It's a Buddy road trip.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: So yeah, even sometimes when you've got them mildly successful it

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Tad Eggleston: because you know. And and as I know more people who are on both sides of the fence. I think it's because

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Tad Eggleston: the people who actually control the purse strings in Hollywood.

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Tad Eggleston: A don't care about good art or good story.

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Tad Eggleston: And be don't actually understand what winds up making money.

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Duane Murray: No, no, it's all. It's all a crapshoot, I mean. They.

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Tad Eggleston: They have some ideas, and not all of them are terrible.

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Duane Murray: Yeah.

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Duane Murray: But some of them are, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: And it's just yeah. Which is why I always pray that people can actually make the living off of their comics.

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Tad Eggleston: Because if you got to wait for.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, I mean, I.

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Tad Eggleston: Then a my medium, the one that I care about doesn't get stuck.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's funny, because you know, a lot of people cross over that way. I crossed over the opposite way. I came from the movie side, not only as an actor, but I produced some independent films. I'd written some films. I developed some TV shows one with Netflix, and that

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Duane Murray: creative process is so frustrating.

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Duane Murray: And so I actually came to comics.

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Duane Murray: to be able to be creative in a way that I didn't feel fulfilled doing the other stuff largely because everything I tried to do on that side, though I get paid well, for it doesn't get made like it is so hard to get something made, whereas in comics for better place, my 1st book, I took the money from an option

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Duane Murray: of a screenplay, and I paid an artist, and I made the book, and then Top Shelf published. I just was going. I just wanted to have the book I just was. No one may ever read this. Maybe I'll kickstart it, I don't know. And then I sent it to a publisher and top Shelf picked it up and published it. And it was such a great

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Duane Murray: creative experience that I realize like, this is actually what I want to do.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay.

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Duane Murray: And it it

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Duane Murray: right now, anyway, because I'm new to this part of the industry. It actually costs me money.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that's I mean, that's not uncommon even with people that aren't. Who do they.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly.

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Duane Murray: So I.

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Tad Eggleston: Thanks.

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Duane Murray: And I hope that all I hope is that I get to break even. And it's funny, because people ask me about that. And I say, well, it's still cheaper than when I was self. Financing films right? Like the amount I paid for better place is even because even the level I was making films was tiny, tiny, Tiny, to make a graphic novel was still a 20th of that.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Duane Murray: So I can.

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Duane Murray: I mean.

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Tad Eggleston: If you pay $500 a page, you're the best. You're among the best paying in the industry.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, and.

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Tad Eggleston: Put that into perspective for people at $500 a page a 2222 page comic is costing

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Tad Eggleston: $11,000 to the artist.

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Duane Murray: Yes.

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Tad Eggleston: And that may seem like a lot for for a month's work.

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Tad Eggleston: But go do it.

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Duane Murray: Oh, God, yeah, no, I I

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Duane Murray: I've been very fortunate in that. I have the artists who I've worked with. I've either gotten early or they liked what I was doing enough to cut me a deal right right.

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Tad Eggleston: No, I get it well and like I said, at $500 a page that I mean realistically, actually.

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Tad Eggleston: you could spend $500 a page

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Tad Eggleston: split between the writer, artist, inker, colorist, and letterer, and still be among the best paying gigs in the business.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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Tad Eggleston: So.

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Tad Eggleston: you know, I break this down. Just so. People understand that that to make a 22 page comic is about

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Tad Eggleston: 10 grand, just for just to pay the people, making it a living wage.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: You know, that's essentially I mean at this point, we don't have anchors as much because people are digital. So so like if it's if it's a hundred, if it's a hundred $50 a page for the writer, 2 50 for

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Tad Eggleston: the artist, because even writers will tell you that they put in way, more work? A hundred, for the color is 50 for the letter, you know.

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Tad Eggleston: You could probably actually get the colorist for 75, and the letter for 25, you know.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly.

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Tad Eggleston: Page. Yeah,

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Tad Eggleston: And again, I can't emphasize enough be among the better paying people in the business. Yeah, yeah, which is disturbing, because that was also among the better paying people in the business. In 1980.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly. That's yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: And I'm not adjusting for inflation. There.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, they have not moved. You know, there was a bit of a a boom in the nineties for some, you know, some paid rates, but that.

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Tad Eggleston: No, but the whole reason image exists is, there wasn't enough of a boom for for.

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Duane Murray: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: They're like, wait a minute. I just sold you a million copies, and you want to offer me what per page.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: So I mean, it's always been a business where

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Tad Eggleston: it's way more about loving to tell stories and loving the medium.

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Duane Murray: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Than getting rich.

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Duane Murray: And which which I have.

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Tad Eggleston: Lucky.

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Duane Murray: I have my whole life. I just listened to a recent podcast. You did with Rosenberg.

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Duane Murray: who and I can't help but feel the exact same way when he talks about it is I can't draw. I try to draw. Believe me, if I could even be as 10% as good as a Tyler boss, I'd be drawing my own comics, but I'm not.

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Tad Eggleston: How lucky are we that Matthew Rosenberg and Tyler boss worked at Forbidden Planet together? Yeah.

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Duane Murray: Yes, yes.

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Duane Murray: I've I've embarrassed Tyler and Matt frequently by telling them this, but but 4 kids walk into a bank is a huge inspiration for me. I think.

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Tad Eggleston: It's.

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Duane Murray: Lightning in a bottle. Comic. That will never be. Do I love both of their work I love when they work together. I love furthest place. 4 kids is lightning in a bottle like it's just.

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Tad Eggleston: I call it a per. I mean Matt gets defensive and says that he can tell me problems with it, but I call it a perfect comic.

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Duane Murray: Hmm, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: I don't. I can't. I can't figure out anything that I think isn't done

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Tad Eggleston: as well as you could possibly do for the story, and, in fact, I will be talking about it again tomorrow. It comes up every time I talk to Matthew and Tyler. Yes, we. We devoted an entire episode to it. Very early in the podcast.

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Duane Murray: Nice.

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Tad Eggleston: So like our 4th or 5th episode, like our main segment was, we're gonna talk about why, 4 kids in the bank, 4 kids walk into the bank is so fucking. Amazing. Yeah.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: For that matter. That's the most

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Tad Eggleston: the 2 most detailed set of show notes I've ever done are that one and the one that we did about the Constitution in comics. After we decided that you know what people need to read the Constitution. There's a comic for that.

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Duane Murray: Yeah. And I mean to be straight up. Honest, like 4 kids is partly what showed me what you could do in comics that didn't have to be superhero or horror or autobio comics. It was this.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Duane Murray: It was funny. It was heartwarming and and power pals. Even

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Duane Murray: when I was looking for an artist, I said, I need. I need undiscovered Tyler boss, that's that's who I want. That's what I need. Well.

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Tad Eggleston: And and and I I was a big fan of is it? Ahmad Rafat?

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Duane Murray: Ahmed. Yeah. Ahmed rafa. Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Amanda Rifat. Yeah. I was a big fan of him on the quick stops.

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Duane Murray: Yes.

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Tad Eggleston: So so I mean he.

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Tad Eggleston: because I didn't remember your name.

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Duane Murray: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: From from better place he was. He was my 1st pull into this book as I went. Oh, he did quick stops! That was.

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Duane Murray: Sure. Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Good art.

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Duane Murray: He. So I got him. I was looking for an artist to do power by. We didn't. I didn't have a publisher. I just after a better place and its success. I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna do this again. But this time I want to make a comic. I want to make a like in the shops Monthly comic.

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Duane Murray: and I was looking for artists, and Michael Walsh, who's who's a friend of mine, lives just down the road from me.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, tweet.

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Duane Murray: Tweeted, asking for saying I was looking for an artist.

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Duane Murray: most of the responses were awful right just, and it's a lot of like bots doing like basically AI anime, it seems like like, just terrible stuff. But.

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Tad Eggleston: Understand.

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Duane Murray: And tagged. Ahmed

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Duane Murray: and Ahmed hadn't done Kevin Smith's book yet. He'd done. He was in the midst of doing his Astrone self-published book.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay.

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Duane Murray: And I loved the art, and I pitched him, and he said, Yep, I'm in. We started talking about it. We did some preview pages, and then he got the call from Kevin Smith.

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Tad Eggleston: Right. And it's like.

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Duane Murray: 3, rd book, yeah. Exactly.

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Tad Eggleston: Hi Wayne.

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Tad Eggleston: I might have a publisher for your book now, because I'm doing some work for them. But you're gonna have to be second in line.

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Duane Murray: So I had to wait interestingly.

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Tad Eggleston: Did he make introductions? I mean, you're an actor, too. You you could possibly be in the next Kevin Smith movie. I mean.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, that's the that's the hope. Right? The no, the my! The introduction was actually from Tyler. Boss Tyler boss introduced me to his dead dogs bite

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Duane Murray: editor right? And so I sent it to him so weirdly. We got Dark horse

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Duane Murray: without the help of Ahmed.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, wow!

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Duane Murray: Book, but.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay.

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Duane Murray: Who was.

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Tad Eggleston: Who remind me which editor did.

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Duane Murray: Red is reactive.

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Tad Eggleston: I try to keep track of editors names just because a they make great interviews when they're willing to talk.

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Duane Murray: Yes.

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Tad Eggleston: And BI found that

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Tad Eggleston: editors are often among the best ways to judge comics. If you don't know the other talent.

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Duane Murray: Right? Right? Yeah, well, it's they're the taste makers. Right? They're the ones. Yeah. So.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean, you know I've said it many times. I've said it to her face, both in person and on on air. We owe so much in comics today to the taste of shelly bond.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah. Well, and and Karen and Karen Burger.

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Tad Eggleston: Burger too.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, they're the 2 that like.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, I don't like to downplay Karen too much, but I don't know Karen yet.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, sure, he's a friend. I don't know, Karen, I'd like to, but bloom!

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Tad Eggleston: But I think Shelley did more of the finding new talent.

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Duane Murray: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: I felt like Karen did, a lot of

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Tad Eggleston: taking talent that she had, and and allowing them to do new things.

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Duane Murray: And.

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Tad Eggleston: And fostering that.

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Tad Eggleston: But I feel like Shelley did a lot of the finding new talent.

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Duane Murray: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: The people that you hadn't seen stuff from before. And suddenly you were seeing stuff, and it was great. And they're still working today.

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Tad Eggleston: For that matter, it's still one of the things that she cares about the most is finding that next

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Tad Eggleston: great cartoonist.

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Duane Murray: Well, and that's also I mean to, for we're winding back a bit. That was again. Why, I felt so honored when I submitted better place to top shelf and better place was directly inspired by that era of Lemire, Matt Kent, and Nate Powell and their book that Christa

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Duane Murray: that makes sense. Yeah, right with them. There.

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Tad Eggleston: Doros is another guy that I'd like to have on one day.

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Duane Murray: Oh, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Because I've only heard amazing things about him.

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Duane Murray: He's a he's a he's a brilliant mind, and talk about finding talent, I mean.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.

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Duane Murray: It's just like.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean top shelf is almost an automatic. Read for me.

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Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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Tad Eggleston: You know, if it's not an automatic right now, read, it's like, if I'm ever looking at a book, and I'm on the fence and I flip it over and it says, top shelf, it's like, Okay.

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Duane Murray: So when I opened the box, the Comps box and I opened it, and and all like I just I saw the little olive on the spine, and I'm like that's it, that's all. I that's all I wanted. The little olive on the spine.

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Tad Eggleston: All right.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah. So I mean, we we kind of touched on it in a roundabout way. One of the one of the questions. I like to to ask

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Tad Eggleston: creators and and particularly creators.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean, you're doing your second book. But but early in their career, early in their comics, careers.

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Duane Murray: Jerry, or.

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Tad Eggleston: Is

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Tad Eggleston: Tell me your comic book biography, but but what I mean by that is not like

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Tad Eggleston: start from like

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Tad Eggleston: the earliest comic. You remember buying or reading, and and take us through? What made you fall in love for the medium? What made you decide that you wanted to tell stories here rather than somewhere else. That sort of thing.

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Duane Murray: You know, it's funny.

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Tad Eggleston: In other words, I should get lots of lots of recommendations out of this speech.

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Duane Murray: But the biography of comics, love and comics, appreciation and comics desire, even even though I came to it so late as a creator, was as a child. I don't.

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Duane Murray: I remember the 1st comic I bought with my own money, which was Batman 417 the 1st 10 nights of the beast issue

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Duane Murray: but before that

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Duane Murray: I would go to my cottage, which I hated. I was bored out of my mind, but my uncle had a box of comics under one of the beds

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Duane Murray: and it had things like the twilight Zone books the Jerry Lewis books so stuff from before my time. But my introduction to strange tales.

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Duane Murray: Oh, Jimmy Olsen, yeah. So superman's PAL, Jimmy Olsen, the wrestling issue where he's fighting the bee with the stinger. These things just flooded my, and I read these over and over and over again.

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Tad Eggleston: See, I have this similar similar starting, only it was a later era of comics. My.

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Duane Murray: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: My dad and uncle both left their comics at my grandma's house, so whenever I went to grandma's she would pull out the box from under the stairs. It was all like mid sixties to to early late sixties, to early eighties. Marvel stuff.

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Duane Murray: Right. Lots of mate, I mean, that's a great era.

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Tad Eggleston: Exactly, exactly, so.

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Duane Murray: And then, even as a child, my mom would bring home like star comics, so like spider ham. And I love always loved humor stuff I loved! What.

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Tad Eggleston: Spider Ham's great. I gave my wife a spider. There's a stuffed spider ham

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Tad Eggleston: on the shelf over there that I gave my wife so.

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Duane Murray: And I love the heat and mad balls and Heathcliff. So I loved those. And then I also would just get these random issues. My mom would get back when they sold them at convenience stores, she would pull them off the rack. So I had this marvel team up with Black panther. He's in a helicopter. I remember the cover so clearly, and he's shooting this like gun that has these sort of

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Duane Murray: blades on them, and they're cutting spider-man's costume, and

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Duane Murray: I remember I don't know who the Inker was for that book, but clearly, as a child I didn't think they were a good enough Inker, because I re-inked the whole book. I like traced over some of the blue, and I remember in the glass shard, and adding a little extra ballpoint pen blue to it.

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Duane Murray: and then in

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Duane Murray: like grade 6, 7 is. When I 1st started venturing into comic book stores, before that it was

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Duane Murray: comics I would get, or convenience stores. That was that was it. But and I walked into the store, and I still remember so clearly the the cover to Dark Knight returns 1st issue

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Duane Murray: on the wall. I think it was $20, and I I but I stuck that cover just I was like, what is that?

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Duane Murray: And I bought this 3rd printing of the second issue because it was still cover price. And I read that, and I desperately needed to read the 1st issue. And so I think I found a second printing for $11.

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Duane Murray: There you go. So yeah, look at that. Look. So all those glass shards. Yeah, I added a bit of extra ink to that.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, mark, marvel team up number 87.

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Duane Murray: 6. There you go. Oh, 87, yeah, 87. The panther. Yeah, look at that. That's amazing.

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Tad Eggleston: I'm good at finding my comics.

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Duane Murray: That is amazing. So that yeah. So that was mid eighties. And you know what a time to walk into a comic store, because that was dark. Knight returns. That was watchmen that was black and white ninja turtles. That was

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Duane Murray: even later. I guess it was more late eighties like 88 Mcfarlane on Spider-man like. That's when that was when I was using my part-time job money to go to the comic stores in the basement of a Mall in Ottawa, which is where I grew up, and I spent all my money on comics. Oh, the punisher miniseries with the Mike Zack painted comics.

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Tad Eggleston: Right. See? See, I'm just a little bit younger than you, right? So I was in the stores for some of that.

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Duane Murray: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: But

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Tad Eggleston: but I was 4 in 84. So I was. I've even written about this, and and American nature presents number one which

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Tad Eggleston: totally pick pick American nature presents. Number 2 came out this week. I also had a column in that anybody not reading Santos sister, should.

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Tad Eggleston: But I'll plug my own work. But

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Tad Eggleston: I had been debating between them and and like over the next years, I would generally buy either Marvel team up or world's finest, because team up had

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Tad Eggleston: spider-man and somebody, and world's finest had both batman and superman, and in my 4 year old brain the more heroes the better.

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Duane Murray: Yes.

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Tad Eggleston: So I was debating between those 2 on my 1st trip to the comic store, and then I saw the Holy Grail

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Tad Eggleston: secret wars. Number One had just.

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Duane Murray: Come out. Yeah. Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Had all of the heroes.

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Duane Murray: Yes.

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Tad Eggleston: Yes, and that was a friend of mine had those, and he also. We also had web of spider-man number one, which was the 1st time I'd seen the black costume

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Tad Eggleston: right.

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Duane Murray: Whoa! What is that?

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Tad Eggleston: I had web of spider-man number one, because my dad bought it for himself.

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Duane Murray: Nice.

359
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Tad Eggleston: Because I mean, that was essentially why we went. My dad wasn't buying nearly as many comics anymore, but he still liked Bill Sinkiewicz a lot. He still liked a handful of

360
00:31:19.530 --> 00:31:22.130
Tad Eggleston: right civic artists enough to go in.

361
00:31:22.650 --> 00:31:25.510
Tad Eggleston: particularly with a four-year-old. You know there was

362
00:31:25.780 --> 00:31:34.309
Tad Eggleston: relatively walking distance from home. You know, a good enough walk that he'd feel like he got to walk in, and there was both a candy shop and a comic book store.

363
00:31:34.310 --> 00:31:35.100
Duane Murray: Yeah, so.

364
00:31:35.100 --> 00:31:38.470
Tad Eggleston: You know you could convince the 4 year old. Let's go for a walk and.

365
00:31:38.470 --> 00:31:39.110
Duane Murray: Yeah.

366
00:31:39.750 --> 00:31:46.360
Tad Eggleston: You know, it's called the Popcorn Shop, and at the time it was almost entirely 1, 2, and 5 cent candy.

367
00:31:46.360 --> 00:31:47.040
Duane Murray: Right.

368
00:31:47.620 --> 00:31:58.849
Tad Eggleston: So like. If I had a quarter for the popcorn shop and could get one comic. It cost him less than a dollar, and I was like over the moon, because I had a sack of candy.

369
00:31:58.850 --> 00:31:59.360
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

370
00:31:59.360 --> 00:32:02.210
Duane Murray: A quarter. I was getting 25 one cent piece.

371
00:32:02.210 --> 00:32:13.779
Duane Murray: Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah, I was as a child I was the same. I was. I was quantity over quality. Every time I went I went. Oh, Henry, every chocolate bar, because Gram wise! It was the heaviest.

372
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:14.700
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

373
00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:18.240
Duane Murray: It wasn't even my favorite like I was a peanut butter cups or twix guy, but I still.

374
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:18.599
Tad Eggleston: I love it.

375
00:32:18.600 --> 00:32:20.769
Duane Murray: Henry because it was more chocolate bar.

376
00:32:20.770 --> 00:32:21.590
Tad Eggleston: I love it.

377
00:32:21.925 --> 00:32:38.709
Duane Murray: So that that's so. That was like back then. And then I was a comic reader, like all through high school, like the Claremont X-men stuff I was reading pretty regularly through then, and also making my version of terrible comics, so I kind of revive it. I would make.

378
00:32:38.710 --> 00:32:40.090
Tad Eggleston: It's a good place to start.

379
00:32:40.090 --> 00:32:44.400
Duane Murray: I would rip off spy versus spy, except it was ninja versus ninja, and I had.

380
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:44.910
Tad Eggleston: Cool.

381
00:32:44.910 --> 00:32:50.760
Duane Murray: A black ninja with a with a with a white headband, and a white ninja with a black headband.

382
00:32:50.760 --> 00:32:51.330
Tad Eggleston: Blackhead, but.

383
00:32:51.330 --> 00:33:07.999
Duane Murray: And I basically just copied spy versus spy antics, and they would fight each other, and one would Ninja Star. And oh, it's come around the back, but I was never a good artist, and then in middle school I joined up with a guy, and we made strips together.

384
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:14.170
Duane Murray: and then and then I I was. I was an athlete. I was a high school athlete, and.

385
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:23.079
Tad Eggleston: Oh, is this gonna be the you discovered girls and didn't have money for comic story? I've heard that many times, so it won't like judge you too much.

386
00:33:23.080 --> 00:33:28.220
Duane Murray: Girls less. So that came a little later. But I definitely

387
00:33:28.380 --> 00:33:52.330
Duane Murray: it's weird. I naturally fell out of comic. I got. I was getting more into film. Then I was I was planning on going to film school. I fell out of comics. But it's not terrible timing, because that was the nineties. Yeah. So I actually missed the image wave. I only came back, some of them later, like like the Max, the Max, I came back and like, what is this? This is amazing.

388
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:53.230
Tad Eggleston: Right.

389
00:33:53.780 --> 00:34:05.679
Duane Murray: And all through university I was out of comics, and I graduated, and there was a guy who just sold comics near our university. He didn't have a store, but he had a table, and heroes reborn had just started.

390
00:34:06.060 --> 00:34:07.730
Tad Eggleston: Okay, that's when I got back in, too.

391
00:34:07.730 --> 00:34:10.340
Duane Murray: There you go, and and I got, and now that I.

392
00:34:10.340 --> 00:34:18.160
Tad Eggleston: Who seek on on or no. Maybe I got into Hero's return when Busiak was doing.

393
00:34:19.107 --> 00:34:21.579
Tad Eggleston: Iron man and avengers.

394
00:34:21.580 --> 00:34:23.677
Duane Murray: Oh, yeah, with, well, yeah, with Perez. And

395
00:34:23.949 --> 00:34:25.229
Tad Eggleston: Right, yeah, yeah.

396
00:34:25.230 --> 00:34:27.419
Duane Murray: That was a little after that was.

397
00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:29.099
Tad Eggleston: Was right after the reborn.

398
00:34:29.100 --> 00:34:35.540
Duane Murray: Exactly it was because that's also when. So when I came out of school, then I got a I got a

399
00:34:35.690 --> 00:34:42.220
Duane Murray: I went whole hog right in. I got us. I had a subscription at a local store, and I spent

400
00:34:42.310 --> 00:35:11.519
Duane Murray: a hundred a week easily on comics, which for a guy with a massive student loan was a lot of money. But I man that I that to me was I was reading everything like everything, marvel everything. DC, lots of image stuff, but still I was kind of a superhero loyalist, and and the furthest I would I'd read Kingdom Come and and Astro City, and these things that were a superhero, but a little deeper, a little little.

401
00:35:11.520 --> 00:35:12.210
Tad Eggleston: Right.

402
00:35:12.210 --> 00:35:15.720
Duane Murray: And love that stuff, and I did not

403
00:35:15.890 --> 00:35:20.080
Duane Murray: read a lot of independent. So this was still so comics as a as a

404
00:35:21.220 --> 00:35:32.370
Duane Murray: as a creative outlet, as a as a creator, and as someone to be able to break into it as a business was still so far from my mind, right because I couldn't draw.

405
00:35:32.500 --> 00:35:36.349
Duane Murray: and I didn't naturally write superhero stuff as much as I loved it

406
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:46.620
Duane Murray: all my, all, my ideas were more. They went into energy for me making films, because that's right. I didn't do superheroes. I loved them, but I didn't do them.

407
00:35:47.010 --> 00:35:47.640
Tad Eggleston: Right.

408
00:35:47.640 --> 00:35:55.699
Duane Murray: And then that wave of top shelf books came Jeff Lemire's, Essex County, Nate Powell's. What was his 1st one

409
00:35:57.450 --> 00:35:58.539
Duane Murray: swallow me, Paul.

410
00:35:58.540 --> 00:35:59.140
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

411
00:35:59.300 --> 00:36:08.929
Duane Murray: Matt Kintz, Super spy and 3 story I discovered. It's funny because there was a there. I don't know if you know the shop. It's called the Beguiling. It's in Toronto. It's a pretty.

412
00:36:08.930 --> 00:36:10.620
Tad Eggleston: I know of it.

413
00:36:10.620 --> 00:36:11.740
Tad Eggleston: I haven't been there.

414
00:36:11.740 --> 00:36:16.510
Duane Murray: So Brian Lee O'malley, who, you know Scott Pilgrim. He worked there like it was a pretty famous job.

415
00:36:16.510 --> 00:36:18.741
Tad Eggleston: One of the reasons I know of it.

416
00:36:19.020 --> 00:36:25.810
Duane Murray: Exactly, and I was like their superhero customer. Every other customer was like the the high end independent.

417
00:36:26.150 --> 00:36:28.530
Tad Eggleston: I feel like that. Was the darsky shop, too.

418
00:36:28.530 --> 00:36:29.849
Duane Murray: It was. Yeah, absolutely. It was, yeah.

419
00:36:29.850 --> 00:36:30.380
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

420
00:36:31.210 --> 00:36:32.530
Tad Eggleston: Back when he was Steve.

421
00:36:32.870 --> 00:36:55.090
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And Jeff Lemire's shop, like all those Toronto guys. And it was, though it was the guys of the beguiling who are like, you know, have you tried reading this stuff? And it's funny because I'd read. I tried reading that stuff when I was younger, and I hated it. I didn't like love and rockets. I didn't like Cerebus. I didn't like any of that Indie stuff people liked. I didn't like.

422
00:36:55.220 --> 00:37:03.310
Tad Eggleston: I hope you've gotten around to love and rockets by now, Cerebus, it's forgivable because of the way he completely fell off at the end.

423
00:37:03.310 --> 00:37:04.100
Duane Murray: Yes, exactly.

424
00:37:04.100 --> 00:37:06.050
Tad Eggleston: Love and rockets is.

425
00:37:06.790 --> 00:37:07.770
Tad Eggleston: We were talking, talking about

426
00:37:07.770 --> 00:37:13.569
Tad Eggleston: 4 kids walk into a bank, being a perfect comic love, and rockets is like 40 years of perfect comics.

427
00:37:13.570 --> 00:37:28.039
Duane Murray: Well, and it took me so. It was reading. Essex County is reading those top shelf books that A made me explore that stuff more. And B. Made me think, oh, comics don't have to be superheroes. They can be just personal story, and.

428
00:37:28.040 --> 00:37:30.240
Tad Eggleston: That's like a mind blowing thing, isn't it?

429
00:37:30.240 --> 00:37:31.649
Duane Murray: It was mind blowing.

430
00:37:31.650 --> 00:37:32.370
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

431
00:37:32.370 --> 00:37:54.979
Duane Murray: The funny thing is, I still couldn't draw, and so it wasn't a thing I was doing. I was still making films and support, so I became friends with Jeff. I became friends with Matt. I became friends with Nate largely because for a while my job was to find graphic novels that I thought would make good movie adaptations before everything was being pilfered.

432
00:37:55.130 --> 00:38:00.629
Duane Murray: So a small company would had hired me to do that. And so I made relationships with these guys.

433
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:25.949
Duane Murray: And eventually I. And it was actually Kickstarter and people doing Kickstarters, even though I've never done one that showed me. Oh, you just you do that, and you hire an artist the way I hire a Dp or a director to do a film. You hire an artist, and so I did that with better place. I got the rights back for that script because that was originally a movie thing.

434
00:38:26.330 --> 00:38:34.000
Duane Murray: and because I knew comics like my whole life. I rewrote it as a comic. It's not like I. And this is what I

435
00:38:34.940 --> 00:38:35.860
Duane Murray: I both.

436
00:38:36.870 --> 00:38:44.269
Duane Murray: I think there are comics, people who will look at someone like me and say, Oh, you're not, you know you're you're trying to sneak in. You're trying to sneak into the comics world.

437
00:38:46.070 --> 00:39:09.420
Duane Murray: But I've been a comics person my whole life, and I get annoyed at that, and I get equally annoyed at people who are on the film side who have scripts that didn't get produced. Who think the way to get them produced is to just give that script to an artist, and they'll draw it, and it'll be a comic. And then we're then there you go, and I hate that, too, and they don't realize it is a completely different medium and form. And so I took.

438
00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:13.990
Tad Eggleston: And there's the 3rd kind, the ones that will actually say that they're slumming it in comics.

439
00:39:13.990 --> 00:39:17.059
Duane Murray: Right? Yeah, yeah. And I took.

440
00:39:17.060 --> 00:39:19.199
Tad Eggleston: It's okay to be in both worlds. Yeah.

441
00:39:19.200 --> 00:39:20.909
Duane Murray: Yeah, I mean, I love it. I mean.

442
00:39:20.910 --> 00:39:23.470
Tad Eggleston: Long as you treat both worlds with respect.

443
00:39:23.470 --> 00:39:25.009
Duane Murray: Yeah, and under. And Frank.

444
00:39:25.010 --> 00:39:29.630
Tad Eggleston: As long as you understand that comics are the better medium, even if there's not more money there.

445
00:39:29.630 --> 00:39:30.630
Duane Murray: And and well.

446
00:39:30.630 --> 00:39:32.950
Tad Eggleston: That's my! That's my addendum.

447
00:39:32.950 --> 00:39:49.059
Duane Murray: And and my, and again, the big thing of like you don't just take a screenplay that failed and give it to an artist and think that it's their job to make it good, like I took a year to rewrite better place as a book when it was already a completed film

448
00:39:49.400 --> 00:40:02.500
Duane Murray: because I understood what that took. And and by going through that process you also realize it's actually a completely different story. It could still be a film that would probably be unrecognizable from the book. The way I had it.

449
00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:03.490
Tad Eggleston: Right.

450
00:40:03.970 --> 00:40:09.110
Duane Murray: And then I found Sean and had him draw it.

451
00:40:09.390 --> 00:40:10.220
Duane Murray: We

452
00:40:10.380 --> 00:40:26.480
Duane Murray: I sent to the completed book, so I paid for the whole book. I sent that book to only top shelf and just on a whim, because I was going to maybe go to Kickstarter to print it. I didn't want to go to Kickstarter for the art money. I felt like that was my responsibility, but I thought for printing. Maybe I'll do that.

453
00:40:26.690 --> 00:40:31.610
Duane Murray: Instead, I sent it to Chris directly he wrote back and said, You forgot to post the link

454
00:40:32.331 --> 00:40:48.930
Duane Murray: which I did, and I said, Oh, my God! There goes my one chance! But I also thought he he wrote back like what an amazing guy like he wrote back. He could have just never responded, and it would have been in the ether, and nothing. But he actually said, send me the link.

455
00:40:49.130 --> 00:40:55.309
Duane Murray: I sent him the link he wrote me the next morning and said, I think you've done something really special here. I want to publish this.

456
00:40:55.310 --> 00:40:55.820
Tad Eggleston: To do it.

457
00:40:55.820 --> 00:40:56.300
Tad Eggleston: It's been.

458
00:40:56.300 --> 00:40:57.480
Tad Eggleston: It's fantastic.

459
00:40:57.480 --> 00:41:04.300
Duane Murray: And I was I had, and I wrote back saying this could not make a cent, and you've just made my life like you've just.

460
00:41:04.300 --> 00:41:04.980
Tad Eggleston: Right.

461
00:41:04.980 --> 00:41:08.909
Duane Murray: The editor I respect probably most in the world liked my book.

462
00:41:09.310 --> 00:41:12.109
Duane Murray: but they did publish it got published.

463
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:18.542
Tad Eggleston: Since we're talking it really quick. Let's let's let's take the break from the comics journey to give us the

464
00:41:19.100 --> 00:41:22.370
Tad Eggleston: the front counter pitch, for for better place.

465
00:41:22.610 --> 00:41:40.750
Duane Murray: So better place is about a young boy and his grandfather, and they are really close, and his grandfather dies. That's not a spoiler. Very early on in the book, and he gets told, as many young children are, that his grandfather has gone to a better place.

466
00:41:41.180 --> 00:41:51.439
Duane Murray: Dylan, the young boy thinks a better place is an actual place, and so he sets off, runs away from home to find this better place so that he can be with his grandfather again.

467
00:41:52.810 --> 00:41:54.140
Duane Murray: Yeah, that's the yeah.

468
00:41:54.140 --> 00:41:55.200
Duane Murray: Yeah, the people.

469
00:41:55.200 --> 00:41:59.599
Duane Murray: Oh, no. And I like to think it's true. There's some. But with a.

470
00:41:59.600 --> 00:42:04.949
Tad Eggleston: With a lot of humor, and both grandfather and Grandson

471
00:42:05.290 --> 00:42:10.639
Tad Eggleston: Cosplay, in a serious way, as as superheroes.

472
00:42:10.640 --> 00:42:11.590
Duane Murray: True. Yes.

473
00:42:11.590 --> 00:42:21.729
Tad Eggleston: And you know you've got the overworked mom that wants desperately to do well by her dad and her son, and and just has too much going on.

474
00:42:21.730 --> 00:42:22.120
Duane Murray: Yeah.

475
00:42:22.120 --> 00:42:23.599
Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's got

476
00:42:23.940 --> 00:42:49.440
Tad Eggleston: a lot of layers that work really. Well, it's my new favorite thing to call most of my favorite books is. It's messy in the best possible way, you know. It's not just an A To B story. It's A, you've got a you've got Z. You've got B. Prime and B, and B. Double prime, and B, sub. 2.

477
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:53.750
Duane Murray: Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's got that sort of big fish episode.

478
00:42:53.750 --> 00:42:55.650
Tad Eggleston: There's a theta over here.

479
00:42:56.030 --> 00:43:06.159
Duane Murray: Yeah, no, exactly. And yeah, that. And and that book means a lot to me like that was, that was my 1st book. It was very personal to me. You know, the

480
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:26.384
Duane Murray: one of the one of the people he meets along the way is an older man who who thinks that Dylan is his grandson. He's suffering from dementia, and I show, you know very briefly not, and not too dark, because it is a book that the publisher decided, is for middle grade, the sort of darker side of these homes that I witnessed. My grandfather go through.

481
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:38.460
Duane Murray: And so yeah, I I went through a lot of emotional catharsis making it. But yeah, I also can't help but sort of add little jokes.

482
00:43:38.460 --> 00:43:40.530
Duane Murray: Well, and you know, as somebody who.

483
00:43:42.640 --> 00:43:44.370
Tad Eggleston: Ran those homes.

484
00:43:44.370 --> 00:43:45.340
Duane Murray: Hmm.

485
00:43:47.200 --> 00:43:50.899
Tad Eggleston: They can say a Thank God, most of them

486
00:43:51.300 --> 00:43:53.369
Tad Eggleston: don't go to quite the extreme.

487
00:43:53.370 --> 00:43:53.760
Duane Murray: Yeah.

488
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:58.940
Tad Eggleston: That some of your and that's why I also appreciated that there was a certain element where

489
00:43:59.300 --> 00:44:04.850
Tad Eggleston: you could tell reading it that it was supposed to be hyperbole.

490
00:44:04.850 --> 00:44:05.250
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

491
00:44:05.250 --> 00:44:08.580
Tad Eggleston: Supposed to be the the extreme of.

492
00:44:08.580 --> 00:44:09.120
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

493
00:44:10.210 --> 00:44:22.189
Tad Eggleston: But on the Flip side my my wife and I were out to breakfast this morning at a family owned restaurant that we love to go to. And we were commenting on

494
00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:26.760
Tad Eggleston: you know the mom and dad that that

495
00:44:27.700 --> 00:44:43.320
Tad Eggleston: open the restaurant, who are now very much grandma and grandpa and or great grandma and grandpa. I'm not even certain right. Their kids mostly run the restaurant now, but they're still there every day, and, Mom, even though it's clear that she's not

496
00:44:44.380 --> 00:44:51.490
Tad Eggleston: anywhere near her best, still spends most of the day rolling silverware. Dad spends most of the day

497
00:44:51.790 --> 00:44:57.690
Tad Eggleston: clearing or wiping down tables except those days. He's having a good enough day that he's back in the kitchen. Yeah.

498
00:44:59.150 --> 00:45:09.319
Tad Eggleston: And what, I commented was, this is what we lose when we have corporate run healthcare.

499
00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:09.870
Duane Murray: Right.

500
00:45:10.830 --> 00:45:16.710
Tad Eggleston: Because, you know, one of the things I went nuts to do was have activities with purpose.

501
00:45:16.870 --> 00:45:17.420
Duane Murray: Right.

502
00:45:17.420 --> 00:45:29.580
Tad Eggleston: You know whether it was, you know, letting my residents set the tables, or vacuum, or whatever, and, like all my higher ups, all ever wanted me to do was more crafts. I'm sitting there going.

503
00:45:29.890 --> 00:45:32.339
Tad Eggleston: Most of these people weren't crafters.

504
00:45:32.745 --> 00:45:33.149
Duane Murray: Yeah.

505
00:45:33.150 --> 00:45:35.759
Tad Eggleston: I don't know if that's even really what they wanna.

506
00:45:36.160 --> 00:45:36.680
Duane Murray: Yeah.

507
00:45:36.680 --> 00:45:40.790
Tad Eggleston: Do in their old age to begin with, and for that matter, I did lots of

508
00:45:41.500 --> 00:45:45.209
Tad Eggleston: like read alouds or other educational type things.

509
00:45:45.210 --> 00:45:45.850
Duane Murray: Yeah.

510
00:45:45.850 --> 00:45:52.920
Tad Eggleston: You know, because I'm sitting there going. People like to feel like they're accomplishing something. And there are really 2 ways to accomplish something. You do something

511
00:45:53.120 --> 00:46:07.469
Tad Eggleston: and do something that like actually means something, not oh, I'm 85 years old. And look at the paper wreath I made for my door. Don't get me wrong. We do those once a year, but we didn't need to do them once a month.

512
00:46:07.470 --> 00:46:08.300
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

513
00:46:08.756 --> 00:46:11.950
Tad Eggleston: Or or their equivalent. Once a week.

514
00:46:12.140 --> 00:46:12.980
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

515
00:46:13.730 --> 00:46:14.480
Tad Eggleston: Right.

516
00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:15.000
Duane Murray: Yeah.

517
00:46:17.290 --> 00:46:23.859
Tad Eggleston: Or oh, they'd like to be able to tell their their friends family whatever.

518
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:28.559
Tad Eggleston: Oh, you know, they were reading this the other day, and I'd never known this. This was really cool.

519
00:46:28.560 --> 00:46:29.360
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

520
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:37.109
Tad Eggleston: Even when they couldn't remember a ton, because it's a sense of purpose. But the reason that it was so hard to get those things.

521
00:46:38.050 --> 00:46:40.550
Tad Eggleston: and for that matter, they love movie nights.

522
00:46:40.550 --> 00:46:41.580
Duane Murray: Right, yeah.

523
00:46:41.810 --> 00:46:47.680
Tad Eggleston: Right, but but the reason I always had to fight with management.

524
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:56.619
Tad Eggleston: I mean I was management sometimes, but even when I was management, the reason I had to fight with higher ups. The reason I had to fight with the people writing the checks were twofold.

525
00:46:56.810 --> 00:46:58.820
Tad Eggleston: They didn't want to get sued.

526
00:46:59.090 --> 00:46:59.610
Duane Murray: Yeah.

527
00:47:00.361 --> 00:47:08.779
Tad Eggleston: So like anything that could create a fall risk or anything like that, no matter how good it made the Resident feel they didn't want to do.

528
00:47:09.010 --> 00:47:09.340
Duane Murray: Yeah.

529
00:47:09.700 --> 00:47:11.420
Tad Eggleston: And second

530
00:47:11.600 --> 00:47:20.920
Tad Eggleston: was either money or litigation. Right, you know. Sure you can help her set the table, but it'll take 3 times as long as if you just said it. It's like

531
00:47:21.390 --> 00:47:23.209
Tad Eggleston: we can afford.

532
00:47:23.620 --> 00:47:24.340
Duane Murray: Yeah.

533
00:47:25.390 --> 00:47:27.940
Tad Eggleston: To spend 15 min rather than 5.

534
00:47:27.940 --> 00:47:28.680
Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly.

535
00:47:28.680 --> 00:47:30.640
Tad Eggleston: That's costing you how much money.

536
00:47:30.640 --> 00:47:31.020
Duane Murray: Yeah.

537
00:47:31.020 --> 00:47:43.210
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. What $50 a week to to let people let them set the tables. And in terms of litigation. If you're really really worried about it

538
00:47:43.340 --> 00:47:45.250
Tad Eggleston: come up with better waivers.

539
00:47:45.250 --> 00:47:45.800
Duane Murray: Yeah.

540
00:47:47.790 --> 00:47:50.569
Tad Eggleston: Don't have the answer be to dehumanize them.

541
00:47:50.570 --> 00:47:51.930
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

542
00:47:53.730 --> 00:48:12.709
Tad Eggleston: You know. But when the you know and you're lucky you live in Canada, which doesn't mean that all of these things are fixed. But at the very least, because it's government run healthcare. Yeah, government paid for health care. You have an outlet other than paying more money.

543
00:48:12.710 --> 00:48:15.080
Duane Murray: Yeah, there's a base level for sure.

544
00:48:15.080 --> 00:48:24.080
Tad Eggleston: Well, not only is there a base level. If things aren't going well, you can call. I don't know the Canadian Government system well enough your equivalent of a Congressman. You're

545
00:48:24.240 --> 00:48:29.359
Tad Eggleston: you know you. You can vote your conscience when it comes to healthcare.

546
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:30.560
Duane Murray: Yes. Yeah.

547
00:48:30.560 --> 00:48:41.940
Tad Eggleston: In the United States. It's like, Oh, no, this is the better way, even though it costs more than anybody else in the world, and we get worse results. Yeah, it's like.

548
00:48:41.940 --> 00:48:50.880
Duane Murray: It's, you know, it's a it's not to not to go political. But it's an it's an interesting thing. And it's not. It's not political. It's it's basic. It shouldn't be. It's rights.

549
00:48:51.070 --> 00:48:51.610
Tad Eggleston: Right.

550
00:48:51.610 --> 00:48:58.500
Duane Murray: We get. I hear a lot of people ask, why are there so many Canadian successful Canadian cartoonists?

551
00:48:59.250 --> 00:49:08.930
Duane Murray: Healthcare? We don't need to take the job that, you know, gives us the healthcare we know, like, because healthcare is such a huge expense.

552
00:49:09.050 --> 00:49:15.999
Duane Murray: People who in in the comics industry they often need other jobs just to, so they can have some healthcare, whereas in Canada we have that safety.

553
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:20.309
Tad Eggleston: It the the single greatest thing that it actually came up.

554
00:49:20.790 --> 00:49:23.500
Tad Eggleston: I think yesterday, when I was talking to Stefan Frank.

555
00:49:25.020 --> 00:49:33.300
Tad Eggleston: single greatest thing that we could do to to increase the arts, to increase the sciences, to increase all sorts of things

556
00:49:33.630 --> 00:49:38.549
Tad Eggleston: is just guarantee a minimum standard of living, not even a great standard of living.

557
00:49:38.550 --> 00:49:43.440
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, if everybody knew that they were going to have a roof over their head.

558
00:49:43.630 --> 00:49:44.200
Duane Murray: Yeah.

559
00:49:44.600 --> 00:49:53.850
Tad Eggleston: Basic utilities, including communications. So so you know, high speed internet phone service, whatnot health care.

560
00:49:54.010 --> 00:49:57.269
Duane Murray: And education through college. Just taken care of.

561
00:49:57.270 --> 00:49:57.930
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

562
00:49:59.710 --> 00:50:14.710
Tad Eggleston: Trust me, there would still be people who would be willing to work. But but really 2 things would happen. You'd have a lot more art and a lot more science, because the people who were really inclined towards that could take risks to go into those fields because they knew that they wouldn't die because of it.

563
00:50:14.710 --> 00:50:17.010
Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

564
00:50:17.010 --> 00:50:23.250
Tad Eggleston: And second, and this, this is why it doesn't happen, and also why it should happen.

565
00:50:23.530 --> 00:50:26.640
Tad Eggleston: The guy serving you at Mcdonald's would have to get paid a lot better.

566
00:50:26.640 --> 00:50:28.010
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

567
00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:29.530
Duane Murray: Yeah.

568
00:50:30.210 --> 00:50:35.029
Tad Eggleston: Because he'd absolutely be able to say, this isn't worth that shit.

569
00:50:35.030 --> 00:50:35.660
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

570
00:50:38.580 --> 00:50:43.670
Tad Eggleston: You know you and the thing is like

571
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:56.769
Tad Eggleston: the United States is the richest country in the world. We could absolutely do that. But at this point. There's enough wealth in the world. There's really no excuse for that not to be the baseline worldwide.

572
00:50:56.950 --> 00:50:57.360
Duane Murray: It could be.

573
00:50:57.360 --> 00:50:59.990
Tad Eggleston: Done if we could get our heads out of our asses.

574
00:50:59.990 --> 00:51:00.610
Duane Murray: Yeah.

575
00:51:02.090 --> 00:51:03.830
Tad Eggleston: That's think of the.

576
00:51:03.830 --> 00:51:06.120
Duane Murray: That then done, part the.

577
00:51:06.120 --> 00:51:10.292
Tad Eggleston: Well, no, I was actually that popped into my head because I started watching.

578
00:51:12.660 --> 00:51:18.730
Tad Eggleston: What? 55 years in the center chair, the documentary about Star Trek.

579
00:51:18.730 --> 00:51:19.220
Duane Murray: Oh, okay.

580
00:51:19.580 --> 00:51:25.539
Tad Eggleston: And and one of the reasons that they were multicultural from the beginning

581
00:51:25.950 --> 00:51:31.690
Tad Eggleston: was gene. Roddenberry is like, there's no way we start exploring space before

582
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:38.110
Tad Eggleston: the idea that this guy's Russian, this guy's Japanese, and that person's black doesn't matter to us right.

583
00:51:38.110 --> 00:51:38.909
Duane Murray: Right, yeah, yeah.

584
00:51:38.910 --> 00:51:46.450
Tad Eggleston: Exploring space is going to be a global thing, not a individual nation thing.

585
00:51:46.450 --> 00:51:47.699
Duane Murray: Yeah, for sure.

586
00:51:47.710 --> 00:51:49.320
Tad Eggleston: And I totally buy it.

587
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:49.790
Duane Murray: Yeah.

588
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:54.660
Tad Eggleston: Even though Alex Segura and who did he write with

589
00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:58.239
Tad Eggleston: Alex? Do you know Alex Segura at all? He does great.

590
00:51:58.240 --> 00:52:00.420
Duane Murray: Yeah, I know. I know his work. Yeah, I don't know him.

591
00:52:00.420 --> 00:52:03.780
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, he he put out a

592
00:52:03.900 --> 00:52:11.360
Tad Eggleston: god. He writes so much because he had. He had alter ego come out this year all sorts of comics, but he also had

593
00:52:11.860 --> 00:52:14.869
Tad Eggleston: a sci-fi novel come out.

594
00:52:17.980 --> 00:52:24.240
Tad Eggleston: That actually did kind of explore the idea that there were still 3 Earth powers kind of at.

595
00:52:24.240 --> 00:52:24.750
Duane Murray: Yeah.

596
00:52:24.750 --> 00:52:28.159
Tad Eggleston: Odds with each other, and interstellar travel.

597
00:52:28.160 --> 00:52:29.060
Duane Murray: Right, right, right.

598
00:52:29.630 --> 00:52:32.659
Tad Eggleston: And man. Did that add an interesting layer?

599
00:52:35.670 --> 00:52:42.200
Tad Eggleston: I'll remember the name of it later. So sorry for the complete and total offshoot.

600
00:52:42.310 --> 00:52:43.410
Tad Eggleston: Oh.

601
00:52:46.130 --> 00:52:51.730
Tad Eggleston: I should just I should cheat, and and since I know I have the audible book, why am I going to?

602
00:52:54.010 --> 00:52:57.039
Tad Eggleston: But let's take that to

603
00:52:57.150 --> 00:53:02.768
Tad Eggleston: I mean you talked about top shelf stuff and some great great great names.

604
00:53:03.370 --> 00:53:05.029
Tad Eggleston: What are what are more.

605
00:53:06.450 --> 00:53:16.339
Tad Eggleston: more comics that made you fall in love with the medium made you more confident that you could tell stories in it made you look at the medium differently.

606
00:53:16.810 --> 00:53:18.289
Tad Eggleston: That sort of thing.

607
00:53:19.720 --> 00:53:28.509
Duane Murray: I mean it. I started reading a lot of interestingly of of Canadian cartoonists as well, that the guy introduced me to like seth.

608
00:53:29.200 --> 00:53:29.920
Tad Eggleston: Was great.

609
00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:33.850
Duane Murray: Mr. Brown a lot of the drawn and quarterly stuff out out of Montreal that.

610
00:53:33.850 --> 00:53:34.230
Tad Eggleston: One.

611
00:53:34.230 --> 00:53:53.789
Duane Murray: Publishing Company, and with Seth it was a sort of cop. I steal a bit of his style for the book I'm actually currently writing. These were things that just showed me different ways. You could use panels. And and we brought this up earlier. 4 kids walk into a bank was another one where.

612
00:53:53.790 --> 00:53:54.510
Tad Eggleston: Oh, my God!

613
00:53:54.510 --> 00:53:59.319
Duane Murray: Just Tyler was doing panel work, and also just I

614
00:54:01.260 --> 00:54:13.090
Duane Murray: what I loved about so much of the panel stuff. It almost looked like scrolling 2D video game stuff, and I don't know why that type of panel was so effective for me.

615
00:54:13.300 --> 00:54:26.520
Duane Murray: But it was. And and now I'll often write it in, and I'll and my script, and I'll often put like a a panel. Tyler did when he was doing that overhead stuff, you know, to take in the sort of geography of the room. I I

616
00:54:26.690 --> 00:54:35.149
Duane Murray: that stuff the the sort of pop out close-ups of things of like oh, and here's the tooth. Here's a here's a pop out of the tooth, and here

617
00:54:35.310 --> 00:54:42.569
Duane Murray: it was a friend, a friend of mine, Jennifer. She's a she's a TV director, she directed a couple episodes of from that sci-fi show from she.

618
00:54:42.870 --> 00:54:49.940
Duane Murray: I had not heard of Black Mask as a publisher. I none of that, and she

619
00:54:50.380 --> 00:54:59.060
Duane Murray: introduced me to 4 kids walk in the bank and into a bank, and I was blown away. And I thought, This is it

620
00:54:59.830 --> 00:55:08.439
Duane Murray: where the seeds of that were the top shelf. Books for kids was, oh, I can do this, because here is.

621
00:55:09.200 --> 00:55:10.710
Duane Murray: here is the book

622
00:55:10.860 --> 00:55:29.100
Duane Murray: that illustrates how these stories can be told even. And that's the other thing, too. Just the number of panels Tyler uses everyone always, you know, artists, editors are always like, Oh, you need this. You can't do more than 6 or 7 panels on a page, and then I see

623
00:55:29.310 --> 00:55:34.169
Duane Murray: Tyler doing 2022, and you know, if you'll.

624
00:55:34.170 --> 00:55:36.239
Tad Eggleston: Like like this one or.

625
00:55:36.240 --> 00:55:45.859
Duane Murray: I mean that that yeah, the sort of blueprint stuff the headshot stuff. So when you go to that headshot stuff of them on the the on the phone conversation.

626
00:55:45.860 --> 00:55:46.420
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

627
00:55:46.420 --> 00:55:50.149
Duane Murray: You, having read who are the power pals the 1st page of that.

628
00:55:50.150 --> 00:55:52.960
Tad Eggleston: That's exactly what I the 1st page I went.

629
00:55:53.950 --> 00:55:56.639
Tad Eggleston: He's a Tyler boss fan, love you, Tyler.

630
00:55:56.640 --> 00:56:01.030
Duane Murray: Love you, Matt. I took that when when.

631
00:56:01.030 --> 00:56:04.639
Tad Eggleston: And they they at least kind of borrowed it from Bendis and.

632
00:56:04.640 --> 00:56:12.325
Duane Murray: Yes, exactly. Yes, and I you know what I skipped over that Bendis and his crime books were huge for me as well.

633
00:56:13.070 --> 00:56:24.410
Duane Murray: especially because Bendis's storytelling and dialogue is so filmic, it's it's got that film aspect to. He's a big film nerd. And being a film guy.

634
00:56:24.530 --> 00:56:41.109
Duane Murray: we my, my old film writing partner and I rent. We bought, I should say, an old Xl one, which is one of those 1st digital cameras, and we for camera tests would take Bendis's some scenes right out of Torso, and we.

635
00:56:41.110 --> 00:56:41.430
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

636
00:56:41.580 --> 00:56:51.629
Duane Murray: We get actors to act them. And that's how we test it. Because they were that good for film, like, they are perfect for that but yeah, I just love Tyler's work.

637
00:56:51.630 --> 00:56:53.200
Tad Eggleston: That's 1 of my favorite pages.

638
00:56:53.500 --> 00:56:54.060
Duane Murray: Yeah.

639
00:56:54.320 --> 00:56:58.099
Tad Eggleston: Particularly, because then you go to the next page with the high shot.

640
00:56:58.390 --> 00:56:59.209
Duane Murray: Yeah. Oh, it's beautiful.

641
00:56:59.210 --> 00:57:02.739
Tad Eggleston: Walter throws up, and you go. Oh, trampoline! That makes sense.

642
00:57:02.900 --> 00:57:09.860
Duane Murray: So I have. I have the the last page of this book I have, as if I bought the original art for that that last.

643
00:57:09.860 --> 00:57:12.020
Tad Eggleston: Wow, yeah, I'm a little jealous.

644
00:57:12.020 --> 00:57:14.760
Duane Murray: I'm a i'm an original art collector.

645
00:57:14.940 --> 00:57:22.019
Tad Eggleston: I wish I was an original art collector. I have one piece so far. I have a page from

646
00:57:22.626 --> 00:57:24.370
Tad Eggleston: stray Bullets, by Dave.

647
00:57:24.370 --> 00:57:26.340
Duane Murray: Oh, yeah, nice, nice.

648
00:57:26.510 --> 00:57:33.739
Duane Murray: Well, I I will admit to you I actually have a watchman cover. So I have some. That was, you know.

649
00:57:33.740 --> 00:57:36.930
Tad Eggleston: You're you're in a a different league for me.

650
00:57:36.930 --> 00:57:49.610
Duane Murray: Well, I sold I so I we were talking about comics. So I I was a comic collector and I at my peak. I think I had 20 in the mid twenties, high twenties of long boxes.

651
00:57:49.610 --> 00:57:50.320
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

652
00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:56.620
Duane Murray: And now I have 2, because I sold that whole collection to get into original art.

653
00:57:56.620 --> 00:57:57.140
Duane Murray: Okay.

654
00:57:57.160 --> 00:58:03.330
Tad Eggleston: That's fair. Yeah. So that's how that's where I started with original art. And and I mean, this is back in.

655
00:58:04.070 --> 00:58:14.073
Duane Murray: Early 2 thousands. I started. So I've been collecting that for 20 years. I've stopped because now I have to pay artists, because now that I'm making books. I I need to pay artists to to make those books.

656
00:58:14.700 --> 00:58:17.769
Duane Murray: yeah. So so 4 kids, it was.

657
00:58:17.770 --> 00:58:18.610
Tad Eggleston: It's.

658
00:58:18.610 --> 00:58:19.030
Duane Murray: Made.

659
00:58:19.030 --> 00:58:30.413
Tad Eggleston: I mean. I I've I've been. I've been showing, showing you the the detailed show notes that I put together for for way back. It was. It was

660
00:58:31.210 --> 00:58:33.490
Tad Eggleston: yeah.

661
00:58:34.370 --> 00:58:41.800
Tad Eggleston: 22 panels episode and and silver coin was one of the.

662
00:58:42.050 --> 00:58:42.380
Duane Murray: There you go!

663
00:58:42.380 --> 00:58:44.889
Tad Eggleston: Lunches that week, too. So Michael Walsh, there,

664
00:58:47.930 --> 00:58:55.670
Tad Eggleston: way back in December of 2021 episode 5. There you go. So yeah, probably would

665
00:58:55.670 --> 00:58:58.050
Tad Eggleston: together the 22 panels.

666
00:58:58.050 --> 00:59:00.220
Duane Murray: And I probably listen to that podcast.

667
00:59:00.220 --> 00:59:05.709
Tad Eggleston: From from from 4 kids walk into a bank.

668
00:59:05.710 --> 00:59:06.420
Duane Murray: Yes.

669
00:59:07.230 --> 00:59:14.579
Tad Eggleston: That that's 1 of the things I'm proud of that I went through, and I found found the 22 panels, the Wallywood 22 panels.

670
00:59:14.580 --> 00:59:15.320
Duane Murray: Oh, right, right.

671
00:59:15.320 --> 00:59:18.370
Tad Eggleston: My wife to put them together, and have my.

672
00:59:18.670 --> 00:59:25.520
Duane Murray: If you are, you know, if you were, if you were gracious enough to continue reading, who are the power pals, you're going to see more. You're going to see more.

673
00:59:25.520 --> 00:59:28.530
Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah, 4 kids influence in there, because

674
00:59:28.530 --> 00:59:31.039
Tad Eggleston: I guarantee I'll be gracious enough. I'm hooked.

675
00:59:32.060 --> 00:59:36.900
Tad Eggleston: I mean, you're welcome to send it to me ahead of time, but but I'll be paying for it too.

676
00:59:36.900 --> 00:59:40.940
Duane Murray: Probably will. Yeah, no. So it's it's it is a pretty

677
00:59:41.160 --> 00:59:48.119
Duane Murray: where those top shelf books were kind of the inspirations for better place for kids is.

678
00:59:48.620 --> 00:59:53.599
Duane Murray: I think, probably the only thing I can point to that is a direct influence on this book.

679
00:59:54.080 --> 00:59:58.340
Tad Eggleston: So did you manage to jump on 4 kids coming out single issue or.

680
00:59:58.340 --> 01:00:01.120
Duane Murray: No, no, no, okay. It was 6.

681
01:00:01.120 --> 01:00:02.460
Duane Murray: Yeah. It was done.

682
01:00:02.460 --> 01:00:05.640
Tad Eggleston: See one of the things I actually even wrote here

683
01:00:05.780 --> 01:00:11.649
Tad Eggleston: was, and I went back and found the article so that I could get it right? So it was

684
01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:14.010
Tad Eggleston: in February of

685
01:00:15.530 --> 01:00:24.869
Tad Eggleston: 2017. I saw the headline at the Nerdist that said, 4 kids walk into a bank is Wes Anderson meets reservoir dogs and immediately went.

686
01:00:25.930 --> 01:00:27.390
Tad Eggleston: I need that.

687
01:00:28.390 --> 01:00:30.249
Tad Eggleston: I must have that book.

688
01:00:30.250 --> 01:00:31.890
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

689
01:00:31.890 --> 01:00:36.180
Tad Eggleston: And then, you know, and then it actually took forever to start coming out.

690
01:00:36.180 --> 01:00:50.699
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, I didn't know. And they they even joke. They joke about that. How delayed it? I had no no knowledge of any of that. I read it in trade. I now have some issues.

691
01:00:50.700 --> 01:00:53.839
Tad Eggleston: I have all of the original issues. I have

692
01:00:54.870 --> 01:01:03.760
Tad Eggleston: extra covers of a number of the Matt and Tyler have made me buy more additional covers of things than anybody else has ever pulled off.

693
01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:06.120
Duane Murray: That's the yeah. He's he.

694
01:01:06.120 --> 01:01:10.709
Tad Eggleston: I think I think I have 7 different number ones of

695
01:01:11.990 --> 01:01:13.939
Tad Eggleston: what's the furthest place from here.

696
01:01:13.940 --> 01:01:14.410
Duane Murray: Yes.

697
01:01:14.410 --> 01:01:16.569
Tad Eggleston: Even though I only intended to buy one.

698
01:01:16.570 --> 01:01:17.500
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

699
01:01:17.980 --> 01:01:24.750
Tad Eggleston: It seemed like every every time I went back to the comic shop, or I was in a different comic shop, I'd see another one that went like

700
01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:26.760
Tad Eggleston: must go home.

701
01:01:26.760 --> 01:01:28.670
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, and that. So.

702
01:01:28.670 --> 01:01:31.559
Tad Eggleston: I mean they got Bendis to draw a cover.

703
01:01:31.560 --> 01:01:32.889
Duane Murray: Yes, that is.

704
01:01:32.890 --> 01:01:36.429
Tad Eggleston: Hadn't drawn anything in 10 years, and they got him to do a cover.

705
01:01:36.620 --> 01:01:42.920
Duane Murray: And I actually, I have one piece of Bendis art. It's the toe tag cover to torso one of the torso.

706
01:01:42.920 --> 01:01:43.850
Tad Eggleston: Oh, nice!

707
01:01:43.850 --> 01:01:57.320
Duane Murray: And I actually went to a con, and I actually I had him draw in the toe tag his sort of fortune and glory face like the way he draws himself. Yeah. And I drew that right in the tag. And he's like, Are you sure I was like, Yeah, yeah, I want you to do that.

708
01:01:57.320 --> 01:01:58.500
Tad Eggleston: It's all your art.

709
01:01:58.500 --> 01:01:59.040
Duane Murray: But yeah.

710
01:01:59.040 --> 01:02:00.140
Tad Eggleston: Just made it cooler.

711
01:02:00.140 --> 01:02:24.140
Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I'm not going to sell it. So he's worried about defeating like, no, it's mine. I want it like this. So yeah, for yeah, Matt, Matt and his and his cover. So as an original art collector like, I have a bunch of furthest place covers, because I thought, oh, you know, it's cool to have this artist do this, but he just he has like 10 artists to cover. It's like it's impossible. And they're.

712
01:02:24.140 --> 01:02:25.130
Tad Eggleston: All good.

713
01:02:25.540 --> 01:02:32.310
Tad Eggleston: So yeah, so this point I have to like, essentially, I will only buy extra covers if

714
01:02:33.410 --> 01:02:35.829
Tad Eggleston: there's some sort of sale at the website.

715
01:02:35.830 --> 01:02:37.760
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, which he does fairly often.

716
01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:43.940
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. So so like, when it was $25 to get the connecting map covers. It's like, Okay.

717
01:02:44.080 --> 01:02:46.289
Tad Eggleston: I'm I'm getting the connecting map powers. Now.

718
01:02:46.290 --> 01:02:49.799
Duane Murray: Are you? Are you? Are you? A fan of the connecting map covers.

719
01:02:49.800 --> 01:02:50.689
Tad Eggleston: I am.

720
01:02:50.690 --> 01:02:51.420
Duane Murray: -Oh.

721
01:02:52.100 --> 01:02:53.290
Tad Eggleston: You have the original.

722
01:02:53.290 --> 01:02:54.347
Duane Murray: Otherwise I do.

723
01:02:54.700 --> 01:02:55.680
Tad Eggleston: All of them.

724
01:02:55.910 --> 01:02:56.810
Duane Murray: Yes.

725
01:02:57.400 --> 01:03:03.300
Duane Murray: So what if you know what I think? I think they told me that somebody had bought all of the originals. You're the one.

726
01:03:03.300 --> 01:03:11.849
Duane Murray: I'm the one. So I I had. So I saw them, and I'm like, I need that. And it was Tyler's wife, Courtney that did them.

727
01:03:11.850 --> 01:03:12.320
Tad Eggleston: Right.

728
01:03:12.320 --> 01:03:20.130
Duane Murray: And so what they did was they actually taped them all, and soft mounted them on a board. So they're all already connected together on.

729
01:03:20.130 --> 01:03:21.160
Tad Eggleston: Oh, wow!

730
01:03:21.380 --> 01:03:28.839
Duane Murray: Don't have it framed yet, but it's what, and I don't frame a lot of my art, unfortunately, is inside of like folders and and art.

731
01:03:28.840 --> 01:03:29.410
Tad Eggleston: Right.

732
01:03:30.170 --> 01:03:38.128
Duane Murray: I only have like 4 4 or 5 pieces frame, but that that's I need to get it framed. It's just it's gonna be a lot to get it framed because it's big.

733
01:03:38.370 --> 01:03:45.610
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Well, I mean my wife knows how to do framing stuff.

734
01:03:45.610 --> 01:03:46.180
Duane Murray: Oh, wow!

735
01:03:46.180 --> 01:03:47.880
Tad Eggleston: So invite us to Canada.

736
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:48.390
Duane Murray: There you go!

737
01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:51.209
Tad Eggleston: We gotta go get our passports now.

738
01:03:51.210 --> 01:03:52.470
Tad Eggleston: 1st sign on yeah.

739
01:03:54.060 --> 01:03:58.449
Tad Eggleston: Last time I went to Canada I didn't need a passport. All I needed was a driver's license.

740
01:03:58.450 --> 01:04:01.269
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. But if you drove across the border you could get away with that.

741
01:04:01.270 --> 01:04:01.650
Tad Eggleston: It.

742
01:04:01.650 --> 01:04:02.420
Duane Murray: And for that.

743
01:04:02.420 --> 01:04:06.820
Tad Eggleston: Matter. Only the driver needed to show their driver's license.

744
01:04:06.820 --> 01:04:11.168
Duane Murray: Yeah, they peek in the window. Yeah, they're fine. That's yeah. Yeah. I remember those days.

745
01:04:12.260 --> 01:04:14.454
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, what? I what I I

746
01:04:15.560 --> 01:04:26.024
Tad Eggleston: in another lifetime before the lifetime where I was the the dementia unit director. I worked for best buy for a long time and

747
01:04:26.940 --> 01:04:30.020
Tad Eggleston: a period of that. I was working on

748
01:04:30.620 --> 01:04:40.659
Tad Eggleston: what they call the project team. So we do like store resets, remodels open new stores, that sort of thing. We're doing a major remodel in Novi, Michigan.

749
01:04:40.830 --> 01:04:46.380
Tad Eggleston: But Detroit, particularly at the time, was not nearly as interesting as Windsor.

750
01:04:46.990 --> 01:04:47.660
Duane Murray: Right.

751
01:04:48.070 --> 01:04:56.340
Tad Eggleston: And we discovered that the Casino

752
01:04:56.760 --> 01:05:00.030
Tad Eggleston: would give you a dollar 66 Canadian.

753
01:05:00.030 --> 01:05:00.680
Duane Murray: Right.

754
01:05:00.680 --> 01:05:08.010
Tad Eggleston: For a dollar American, and at the border it was being exchanged at like a dollar 28 to a dollar.

755
01:05:08.010 --> 01:05:08.490
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

756
01:05:08.490 --> 01:05:21.690
Tad Eggleston: So we would take all of our per d. You know. It was like a 3 week thing that we got given our per diem in advance. We take all of our per diem, change it all at the Casino, go out and spend like $200.

757
01:05:21.690 --> 01:05:22.580
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

758
01:05:22.580 --> 01:05:24.619
Tad Eggleston: On like steak dinners, whatever.

759
01:05:24.930 --> 01:05:25.430
Duane Murray: Yeah.

760
01:05:25.430 --> 01:05:31.680
Tad Eggleston: Change the money back at the border right, and have more money than we walked into, walked into the country with.

761
01:05:31.680 --> 01:05:33.259
Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

762
01:05:34.020 --> 01:05:45.690
Tad Eggleston: I mean we I think it was like it was a trip where I think we want to. We we started with like, close to $700 in per diem, and despite the fact that we lived it up every night in Windsor.

763
01:05:46.180 --> 01:05:50.319
Tad Eggleston: I think all of us went home with more than a thousand dollars in cash.

764
01:05:50.693 --> 01:05:53.309
Duane Murray: And still had a great time still.

765
01:05:53.310 --> 01:05:57.119
Tad Eggleston: Just by changing our money at the Casino, and not gambling.

766
01:05:57.120 --> 01:05:59.190
Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's amazing.

767
01:05:59.190 --> 01:06:05.989
Tad Eggleston: Worst case scenario. They'd make us take some of it in chips, and we'd just walk over to another window and catch the chips.

768
01:06:05.990 --> 01:06:06.960
Duane Murray: Exactly. Yeah.

769
01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:18.120
Tad Eggleston: But that was the last time I went to Canada, because now I need a we thought about it on our honeymoon, because we were Niagara Falls, and then we remembered that you had to

770
01:06:18.490 --> 01:06:22.019
Tad Eggleston: had to have a passport to get across.

771
01:06:22.350 --> 01:06:23.120
Duane Murray: Yeah. No.

772
01:06:23.120 --> 01:06:28.580
Tad Eggleston: You know. Yeah. So one of these days I'll go get a passport. I've never actually had a passport.

773
01:06:28.580 --> 01:06:29.050
Duane Murray: Oh, wow!

774
01:06:29.450 --> 01:06:36.309
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, I've done all my my traveling stateside, except for a little bit of time in Canada.

775
01:06:36.310 --> 01:06:40.810
Duane Murray: Well, if your if your President has his way, we'll become a State. So you know it's.

776
01:06:40.810 --> 01:06:43.289
Tad Eggleston: See, I actually, I saw a great

777
01:06:44.190 --> 01:06:57.259
Tad Eggleston: video that that made it look very official looking. But I'm certain it wasn't official Canada, but but essentially inviting migrants from the United States of other than those weird states.

778
01:06:57.260 --> 01:06:58.069
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

779
01:06:58.070 --> 01:07:01.809
Tad Eggleston: In Canada, either as individuals or as whole States.

780
01:07:01.810 --> 01:07:10.619
Duane Murray: There. No, you know what there was that was so that was Elizabeth May, and she is the leader of an official political party. She may even have a seat.

781
01:07:10.960 --> 01:07:15.990
Duane Murray: The party is not a very strong party, but she might have a seat. It's our green party, basically.

782
01:07:15.990 --> 01:07:19.159
Tad Eggleston: Okay, older guy in this video.

783
01:07:19.160 --> 01:07:20.960
Duane Murray: Oh, then I don't know. Yeah.

784
01:07:20.960 --> 01:07:28.589
Tad Eggleston: I think it was recent, because the way the way he was talking it was definitely a response to the whole.

785
01:07:28.590 --> 01:07:34.879
Duane Murray: Because, yeah, Elizabeth May did the same thing from from actual Parliament. She's like, Hey, California, hey? New York, hey? Chicago?

786
01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:35.550
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I mean.

787
01:07:35.840 --> 01:07:36.420
Duane Murray: Come on!

788
01:07:36.420 --> 01:07:39.030
Tad Eggleston: Honestly, I mean, here's the crazy thing.

789
01:07:41.010 --> 01:07:46.589
Tad Eggleston: Like the politicians in power in the United States are so dumb.

790
01:07:46.870 --> 01:07:47.490
Duane Murray: Hmm.

791
01:07:48.300 --> 01:07:56.829
Tad Eggleston: That I'm pretty certain that large numbers of them would be happy to let reds or blue States secede.

792
01:07:57.010 --> 01:07:57.950
Duane Murray: Right, right.

793
01:07:57.950 --> 01:08:01.700
Tad Eggleston: Not realizing that the Blue States are the tax base.

794
01:08:01.700 --> 01:08:04.845
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

795
01:08:06.630 --> 01:08:12.320
Tad Eggleston: I could see a situation where, like California, up to the border.

796
01:08:12.320 --> 01:08:12.900
Duane Murray: Right.

797
01:08:13.200 --> 01:08:18.519
Tad Eggleston: New York up to the Border, Minnesota, Michigan.

798
01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:21.810
Tad Eggleston: and Illinois, and maybe even Wisconsin.

799
01:08:22.710 --> 01:08:25.579
Tad Eggleston: all join Canada, and by the time

800
01:08:27.529 --> 01:08:34.489
Tad Eggleston: anybody in the Republican party realized that it would completely wreck the Us. Economy.

801
01:08:34.490 --> 01:08:34.930
Duane Murray: Yeah.

802
01:08:34.939 --> 01:08:37.529
Tad Eggleston: It would be. It would be like it would be like Brexit.

803
01:08:37.529 --> 01:08:38.069
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

804
01:08:38.069 --> 01:08:43.269
Tad Eggleston: You'd be like. Oh, wait a minute! Wait a minute! What? What? Oh, there are consequences to our actions!

805
01:08:43.270 --> 01:08:44.369
Duane Murray: Right, yeah.

806
01:08:44.670 --> 01:08:46.120
Tad Eggleston: How dare you.

807
01:08:46.120 --> 01:08:46.790
Duane Murray: Yeah.

808
01:08:48.759 --> 01:08:55.489
Tad Eggleston: Because I mean, yeah, I hope that you don't have to deal with it the way we do.

809
01:08:55.490 --> 01:08:56.020
Duane Murray: The.

810
01:08:56.029 --> 01:08:58.339
Tad Eggleston: You get to look down and laugh

811
01:08:58.839 --> 01:09:02.829
Tad Eggleston: the things that come out of our elected officials, mouths.

812
01:09:04.430 --> 01:09:09.670
Duane Murray: Sometimes, I mean, we're we're we're getting some of the same, unfortunately, on our end. So.

813
01:09:09.670 --> 01:09:12.000
Tad Eggleston: But they're not in power.

814
01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:12.770
Duane Murray: Yet.

815
01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:16.620
Duane Murray: We're getting there.

816
01:09:16.840 --> 01:09:22.319
Tad Eggleston: I know. Well, I hope that you won't. I hope that your general

817
01:09:22.930 --> 01:09:25.640
Tad Eggleston: population is much smarter than that.

818
01:09:25.859 --> 01:09:26.550
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

819
01:09:26.550 --> 01:09:33.930
Duane Murray: It has to be more about caring enough or having it affect people's lives enough

820
01:09:34.399 --> 01:09:37.640
Duane Murray: for people to care enough to vote like Canada's vote.

821
01:09:37.649 --> 01:09:38.369
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

822
01:09:38.370 --> 01:09:41.130
Duane Murray: Is generally terrible. It's.

823
01:09:41.130 --> 01:09:41.720
Tad Eggleston: Right.

824
01:09:41.890 --> 01:09:46.599
Duane Murray: Often I don't know. I think I think a good year might be in the thirties, like 30%.

825
01:09:46.609 --> 01:09:46.999
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

826
01:09:47.010 --> 01:09:52.209
Duane Murray: Like we're we're we're sometimes in the high 20. It can be pretty bad. So

827
01:09:52.340 --> 01:09:58.000
Duane Murray: so there has to be a genuine outpouring of. And that's the thing, because we have these

828
01:09:58.140 --> 01:10:02.940
Duane Murray: safety nets. And we've had these our way of life for so long.

829
01:10:03.740 --> 01:10:06.480
Duane Murray: People are generally, I think, comfortable.

830
01:10:06.770 --> 01:10:25.360
Duane Murray: So there's not the fear of Oh, my God! If this person does this, everyone is basically don't we have, we have, you know, we have crises. We have, we have crises. We have all, but I think because in general we have a general class of people that are relatively comfortable.

831
01:10:25.530 --> 01:10:27.879
Duane Murray: There is. There's a bit more apathy.

832
01:10:28.140 --> 01:10:29.320
Duane Murray: Yeah. Going up.

833
01:10:29.320 --> 01:10:30.650
Tad Eggleston: That's.

834
01:10:31.090 --> 01:10:35.910
Duane Murray: United States in my lifetime. So this is what I'll tell you if you see a Reagan.

835
01:10:36.080 --> 01:10:36.740
Duane Murray: Yeah.

836
01:10:36.740 --> 01:10:39.640
Tad Eggleston: You need to start running the, you know.

837
01:10:40.950 --> 01:10:43.730
Tad Eggleston: ringing the warning bells really, really loud.

838
01:10:43.730 --> 01:10:44.370
Duane Murray: Yeah.

839
01:10:44.650 --> 01:10:50.859
Tad Eggleston: Because that's where it started. It started with Reagan. It kind of started with Nixon, but where it really started was Reagan.

840
01:10:51.120 --> 01:10:51.690
Duane Murray: Right.

841
01:10:52.340 --> 01:11:09.199
Tad Eggleston: You know, because, Nixon, it could have started with Nixon. But the country went. Oh, fuck! No! You want to do what you want to commit crimes and get away with it. No, yeah. But there was a portion of the Republican party that went. He shouldn't have resigned. We shouldn't let him resign.

842
01:11:09.330 --> 01:11:13.249
Tad Eggleston: and by Reagan they'd started to take over the Republican party.

843
01:11:13.250 --> 01:11:13.600
Duane Murray: Yeah.

844
01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:17.859
Tad Eggleston: And and then, like Reagan, came up with the myth of the Welfare, mother.

845
01:11:17.980 --> 01:11:20.879
Tad Eggleston: which was really just a way to make you go.

846
01:11:21.130 --> 01:11:26.110
Tad Eggleston: Oh, my God! They're taking my Dax dollars and giving it to black people who don't deserve it.

847
01:11:29.710 --> 01:11:35.189
Tad Eggleston: But no, it was really a way to oh, let's lower the taxes on the people who

848
01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:47.670
Tad Eggleston: oh, they pay so much taxes. The top tax rate is 90% on dollars over 1 million that they make in a year. Poor, poor them!

849
01:11:47.670 --> 01:11:48.380
Duane Murray: Yeah.

850
01:11:52.200 --> 01:12:00.410
Tad Eggleston: And and very quickly we started to see erosion of government services, and particularly in the States that went along with it.

851
01:12:00.640 --> 01:12:02.300
Tad Eggleston: And and

852
01:12:02.430 --> 01:12:12.000
Tad Eggleston: you know, we went from a 90% top marginal tax rate to like a 20% top marginal tax rate in my lifetime.

853
01:12:14.600 --> 01:12:18.009
Tad Eggleston: But it starts out with a lot of things that seem reasonable being

854
01:12:18.160 --> 01:12:21.099
Tad Eggleston: sold by smarmy snake oils, men.

855
01:12:21.530 --> 01:12:27.620
Tad Eggleston: snake oil salesman before it gets to the obvious

856
01:12:27.760 --> 01:12:36.170
Tad Eggleston: Newt Gingrich or George W. Bush or Donald Trump, whichever whichever layer of them is the one that became obvious to you.

857
01:12:36.300 --> 01:12:37.040
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

858
01:12:39.290 --> 01:12:45.260
Tad Eggleston: And as it turns out, there's lots of comics for that. So again, if you see it coming.

859
01:12:45.410 --> 01:12:49.439
Tad Eggleston: start start giving march to all of your friends start giving.

860
01:12:50.420 --> 01:12:51.170
Duane Murray: Yes.

861
01:12:52.619 --> 01:12:57.410
Tad Eggleston: Save it for later. One of Nate Powell's more recent books is, Yeah, is absolutely.

862
01:12:57.410 --> 01:12:59.830
Duane Murray: I love, I love saving. I love to save it, for later.

863
01:12:59.830 --> 01:13:02.570
Tad Eggleston: For later is one of my favorite books. Period. Yeah.

864
01:13:04.020 --> 01:13:09.840
Tad Eggleston: but yeah, we'll get off tall politics. We'll get off politics. And and I feel like we're we're getting to a good

865
01:13:10.550 --> 01:13:16.680
Tad Eggleston: wrap up point unless you had something else you wanted to plug. Because I'm all for talking longer. I just don't like to bore people.

866
01:13:16.680 --> 01:13:17.380
Duane Murray: Yeah. No.

867
01:13:17.380 --> 01:13:18.880
Tad Eggleston: I don't want to bore you.

868
01:13:19.231 --> 01:13:23.099
Duane Murray: No, I I'm I'm good. I can talk forever about all.

869
01:13:23.100 --> 01:13:23.790
Tad Eggleston: Okay?

870
01:13:24.960 --> 01:13:34.463
Tad Eggleston: Well, well, then, my, my wrap up question is one that isn't necessarily a a quick wrap up question. If you can talk forever. You can go on this one.

871
01:13:35.710 --> 01:13:37.800
Tad Eggleston: tell me something that you'd love

872
01:13:38.100 --> 01:13:55.539
Tad Eggleston: preferably comic, but it's not required like Matt Rosenberg will always give me a comic and a movie, at least, sometimes multiple comics and multiple movies. Stefan Frank always gives me some music along with the, you know. Some people will toss in a book, right?

873
01:13:55.740 --> 01:14:01.520
Tad Eggleston: Something that you love, or some things I don't want to limit you.

874
01:14:02.238 --> 01:14:12.630
Tad Eggleston: That not enough other people have experienced, listened to, watched whatever, and you need them to, because you want to be able to talk to more people about it.

875
01:14:13.648 --> 01:14:18.870
Duane Murray: Comics wise. I think I mentioned before, I'm working on a I'm working on a

876
01:14:19.140 --> 01:14:22.290
Duane Murray: a graphic novel now. Better place, graphic novel

877
01:14:22.390 --> 01:14:31.750
Duane Murray: power pals, individual comics I want. I I miss doing a complete story in one book. So I'm I'm working on a graphic novel now. Nothing. I haven't pitched it yet, or anything. But I'm right.

878
01:14:31.750 --> 01:14:32.260
Tad Eggleston: Right.

879
01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:33.865
Duane Murray: And it is

880
01:14:34.880 --> 01:14:38.110
Duane Murray: One of the inspirations, for it was a book called Maggie Garrison.

881
01:14:39.860 --> 01:14:40.539
Duane Murray: You know Maggie.

882
01:14:40.540 --> 01:14:41.430
Tad Eggleston: On time.

883
01:14:41.630 --> 01:14:42.510
Duane Murray: Yeah.

884
01:14:42.510 --> 01:14:43.809
Tad Eggleston: Lewis, Trondheim.

885
01:14:45.610 --> 01:14:48.400
Duane Murray: I think that is a fantastic book

886
01:14:48.820 --> 01:14:53.510
Duane Murray: that I've heard very few people ever mention. And and I it's 1 of my.

887
01:14:53.510 --> 01:14:57.819
Tad Eggleston: No, I agree with you. It's another one that I totally agree with you.

888
01:14:57.820 --> 01:15:04.569
Duane Murray: I love the you know I love. I love the story I love the protagonist, because that's the book I'm working on is kind of a

889
01:15:05.350 --> 01:15:07.280
Duane Murray: middle aged woman.

890
01:15:07.956 --> 01:15:16.853
Duane Murray: you know, fighting against the system just to keep her head above water, and then is dragged into this kind of mystery.

891
01:15:17.740 --> 01:15:43.319
Duane Murray: And I read that. And not only. And I love the again like like Tyler, with 4 kids like they're not afraid to use 13 panels on a page, and I love the and I love the color because the colors again with 4 kids. I'm a man of simple taste. The flat colors I love the flat colors. Power pals has very flat colors, and and I love seeing books like that. And Mega Garrison is another one that has just very flat colors.

892
01:15:44.320 --> 01:15:48.960
Duane Murray: And if if I don't think a lot of people have read that book and.

893
01:15:48.960 --> 01:15:51.700
Tad Eggleston: It's a i mean that.

894
01:15:51.900 --> 01:15:54.110
Duane Murray: Self made hero, I think. Which is it?

895
01:15:54.300 --> 01:15:56.679
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, self made hero, which is a British.

896
01:15:57.020 --> 01:15:57.520
Duane Murray: Yes.

897
01:15:57.520 --> 01:15:58.760
Tad Eggleston: British company.

898
01:15:58.760 --> 01:15:59.110
Duane Murray: Yes.

899
01:15:59.516 --> 01:16:12.533
Tad Eggleston: And both Trondheim and Stephane Ore are are Paris based, and you know, Tyler and I have tried to to make certain that we read more and talk about more. But

900
01:16:13.890 --> 01:16:24.070
Tad Eggleston: as as fractured as the Us. Comic market is already between, like superhero, independent

901
01:16:24.440 --> 01:16:44.600
Tad Eggleston: genre stuff, graphic novel versus issues, etcetera. And and people who love comics don't necessarily love manga. People love manga. Don't you know? There's way too little appreciation for European comics in the United States, and this one's a good one.

902
01:16:44.600 --> 01:16:47.550
Duane Murray: Yeah, it's it's it's 1 of my favorites. And I really.

903
01:16:47.550 --> 01:16:48.140
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

904
01:16:48.140 --> 01:16:49.890
Duane Murray: If you if you like, a graph.

905
01:16:49.890 --> 01:16:51.140
Tad Eggleston: Go, reread it now.

906
01:16:51.140 --> 01:16:56.179
Duane Murray: Founded storytelling with sort of crazy things happening.

907
01:16:56.880 --> 01:17:11.679
Duane Murray: That's that's what it is. And and I, yeah, from the art to the panel breakdowns to the colors. It's a book that I go to over and over when I'm feeling if I'm feeling stuck, if I'm feeling. I looked at that book like, what did they do? What did

908
01:17:11.680 --> 01:17:12.430
Duane Murray: alright? Goodbye.

909
01:17:12.610 --> 01:17:13.340
Duane Murray: Yeah.

910
01:17:13.510 --> 01:17:14.830
Duane Murray: I mean, I had. You know.

911
01:17:15.320 --> 01:17:24.679
Duane Murray: I, Essex County is is one of my favorite books, several graphic novels, one of my favorite books, but I feel like that. May be

912
01:17:24.800 --> 01:17:27.540
Duane Murray: I don't know. Has everyone come around on that already? Because

913
01:17:28.480 --> 01:17:29.030
Duane Murray: It was so.

914
01:17:29.030 --> 01:17:31.030
Duane Murray: I mean to black 2 2.

915
01:17:31.030 --> 01:17:34.550
Tad Eggleston: 2 things. First, st I didn't say

916
01:17:34.670 --> 01:17:50.690
Tad Eggleston: that like not enough people in general, right? Not enough people that you get to talk to. So if you don't have enough people to talk to about it, it counts. But second, this is where I'm going to point out that, like the answer Nate Powell gave me the last time.

917
01:17:51.471 --> 01:17:57.790
Tad Eggleston: Just because it had been so long since he'd been in that world, was Jonathan Hickman's X-men.

918
01:17:57.930 --> 01:18:02.690
Tad Eggleston: So so we've got a a really wide yeah.

919
01:18:03.060 --> 01:18:03.490
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

920
01:18:03.490 --> 01:18:07.820
Tad Eggleston: No, I don't think enough. People appreciate early Jeff Lemire.

921
01:18:08.030 --> 01:18:09.390
Duane Murray: No I know.

922
01:18:09.390 --> 01:18:12.500
Tad Eggleston: I'm I'm constantly telling people about trillium.

923
01:18:12.880 --> 01:18:13.310
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

924
01:18:13.310 --> 01:18:16.740
Tad Eggleston: My favorite books ever, and one of my favorite books by him.

925
01:18:18.030 --> 01:18:18.629
Duane Murray: Oh, yeah. No.

926
01:18:18.630 --> 01:18:20.939
Tad Eggleston: And totally underappreciated.

927
01:18:20.940 --> 01:18:22.480
Duane Murray: One of my framed pieces of art.

928
01:18:22.810 --> 01:18:25.040
Duane Murray: Oh, the last black, beautiful.

929
01:18:25.860 --> 01:18:26.820
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

930
01:18:27.196 --> 01:18:28.700
Duane Murray: So, yeah, yeah, no.

931
01:18:28.700 --> 01:18:29.080
Duane Murray: Yeah. Yeah.

932
01:18:29.240 --> 01:18:31.730
Duane Murray: I agree. Trillium is a very underrated

933
01:18:32.540 --> 01:18:33.070
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

934
01:18:33.610 --> 01:18:35.520
Duane Murray: But yeah, it's to me.

935
01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:39.399
Tad Eggleston: Doesn't do enough sci-fi, because when he does sci-fi, it's like

936
01:18:40.330 --> 01:18:44.430
Tad Eggleston: I mean, 2 of my favorite things from him are trillion trillium and sentient.

937
01:18:44.970 --> 01:18:49.870
Duane Murray: Oh, great, yeah, yeah, that's another one, because of who published it. That kind of went under the radar, too, because.

938
01:18:49.870 --> 01:18:50.540
Tad Eggleston: Right.

939
01:18:50.710 --> 01:18:51.240
Duane Murray: I mean.

940
01:18:51.240 --> 01:18:51.870
Tad Eggleston: All right.

941
01:18:51.870 --> 01:18:58.950
Duane Murray: You had a big splash with those 1st 6 books and then but I don't think I'm not. Are they still publishing? I forget Tko. That's it. Tko.

942
01:18:58.950 --> 01:19:00.979
Tad Eggleston: Because yeah, yeah.

943
01:19:01.340 --> 01:19:02.189
Duane Murray: Yeah, that was a great book.

944
01:19:02.190 --> 01:19:03.500
Duane Murray: Yeah.

945
01:19:03.660 --> 01:19:04.190
Duane Murray: Yeah.

946
01:19:04.530 --> 01:19:09.885
Duane Murray: I loved I loved another one that the note the Jeff Lemire's the nobody.

947
01:19:10.220 --> 01:19:10.920
Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.

948
01:19:10.920 --> 01:19:11.979
Duane Murray: There we go. So.

949
01:19:11.980 --> 01:19:13.400
Tad Eggleston: Haven't read that in a while.

950
01:19:13.400 --> 01:19:16.120
Duane Murray: Yeah, that's another. That's a that's another great one.

951
01:19:16.120 --> 01:19:18.580
Tad Eggleston: That one, I think, might be out of print.

952
01:19:18.580 --> 01:19:23.649
Duane Murray: I think it is. He gave it. He was giving it away as a Pdf. On his sub stack.

953
01:19:24.530 --> 01:19:25.210
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

954
01:19:25.210 --> 01:19:28.509
Duane Murray: For a bit. And so I think it is out of print.

955
01:19:31.850 --> 01:19:39.409
Duane Murray: And then, in terms of those, you know, those guys that had. Everyone knows them for other things. Matt Kint's

956
01:19:40.150 --> 01:19:41.390
Duane Murray: 3 story.

957
01:19:41.990 --> 01:19:43.250
Tad Eggleston: I love. 3 story.

958
01:19:43.250 --> 01:19:48.440
Duane Murray: Secret history of Giant Man is another. I just think it's such a beautiful book. I absolutely love that book.

959
01:19:48.440 --> 01:19:54.359
Tad Eggleston: Though I think my favorite lesser known, Matt Kent, is red-handed.

960
01:19:54.360 --> 01:20:05.719
Duane Murray: I love. Red is so underrated. I love that book. You're a good friend of mine. She's the one who recommended 4 kids. Her favorite. Matt Kent book is red handed as well.

961
01:20:05.720 --> 01:20:09.599
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, for me. It's it's between red handed and mind management.

962
01:20:09.600 --> 01:20:10.000
Duane Murray: Right.

963
01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:12.310
Tad Eggleston: My my management is magnum opus.

964
01:20:12.310 --> 01:20:13.120
Duane Murray: Right? Yeah.

965
01:20:13.700 --> 01:20:20.120
Duane Murray: I did a book club with mind management. So my 3 copies of mind management have, like a thousand post-it notes in them.

966
01:20:20.120 --> 01:20:21.190
Duane Murray: Right? Yeah, yeah.

967
01:20:21.583 --> 01:20:27.090
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. But Red red handed is like the small town version of my management.

968
01:20:27.090 --> 01:20:27.979
Duane Murray: Yeah, it's really.

969
01:20:27.980 --> 01:20:32.569
Tad Eggleston: Just as complicated of a web. Yeah, it's just not global.

970
01:20:32.570 --> 01:20:33.380
Duane Murray: And what.

971
01:20:33.380 --> 01:20:33.900
Tad Eggleston: Ways, that.

972
01:20:33.900 --> 01:20:34.350
Duane Murray: Don't worry.

973
01:20:34.350 --> 01:20:35.410
Tad Eggleston: More impressive.

974
01:20:35.920 --> 01:20:44.189
Duane Murray: No, you're right. I love that book. There, there's a piece of art from that I had that I had over my writing desk, and it was

975
01:20:44.810 --> 01:20:56.680
Duane Murray: it was. It was like pieces of things put together, and I think it said in the in the shadow of giants create something beautiful or something like that, and that above my writing desk for a long time. Yeah.

976
01:20:57.510 --> 01:21:08.326
Duane Murray: yeah, because those are those are the those those are those books in the early to mid 2 thousands that brought me around to comics. Not just being genre

977
01:21:08.700 --> 01:21:10.409
Tad Eggleston: Not just being superheroes.

978
01:21:10.410 --> 01:21:12.600
Duane Murray: Yeah, and all the yeah.

979
01:21:12.980 --> 01:21:18.100
Duane Murray: I know. And now it's like, and now I'm just trying to even find stuff like that's not

980
01:21:18.380 --> 01:21:24.799
Duane Murray: not horror. Now it just feels like every second book is a horror book that that's not a superhero book.

981
01:21:27.930 --> 01:21:31.430
Duane Murray: So I'm always looking out for those sort of heartfelt which.

982
01:21:31.430 --> 01:21:32.760
Tad Eggleston: Wow!

983
01:21:32.760 --> 01:21:37.320
Duane Murray: With Rosenberg stuff. It's just it's got that. It's funny. It's heartfelt.

984
01:21:37.600 --> 01:21:43.500
Tad Eggleston: So I need to toss this out really quickly. Yeah, not only does Jeff

985
01:21:43.970 --> 01:21:48.340
Tad Eggleston: have the nobody available for download on his substack.

986
01:21:48.340 --> 01:21:48.760
Duane Murray: Yeah.

987
01:21:48.760 --> 01:21:51.049
Tad Eggleston: It is not behind a Paywall.

988
01:21:51.050 --> 01:21:52.720
Duane Murray: There you go! There you go!

989
01:21:52.720 --> 01:21:58.809
Tad Eggleston: So the the links will be in the show notes when I get around doing them.

990
01:21:59.060 --> 01:22:01.869
Duane Murray: His great take on the Invisible man is basically.

991
01:22:01.870 --> 01:22:02.650
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

992
01:22:02.650 --> 01:22:03.689
Duane Murray: That is, yeah.

993
01:22:04.450 --> 01:22:13.150
Duane Murray: The so this I don't think it's been solicited yet. So but I'm going to say it anyway. The 4th issue of power pals the variant cover

994
01:22:13.270 --> 01:22:19.159
Duane Murray: Jeff was going to do for me, but he but he was too busy. So I got Sean from better place to.

995
01:22:19.160 --> 01:22:24.950
Tad Eggleston: You mean between drawing his own book and writing absolute flash and.

996
01:22:24.950 --> 01:22:26.479
Duane Murray: 7 other books. And yeah.

997
01:22:26.480 --> 01:22:27.230
Tad Eggleston: Right.

998
01:22:27.230 --> 01:22:29.419
Duane Murray: Biography for dark, or all that. Yeah.

999
01:22:29.420 --> 01:22:30.870
Tad Eggleston: Right, right.

1000
01:22:30.870 --> 01:22:36.400
Duane Murray: So Sean Daly did the homages the nobody cover for me. Okay.

1001
01:22:36.400 --> 01:22:36.860
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

1002
01:22:36.860 --> 01:22:38.749
Duane Murray: It's yeah, it's and it's great. It's great.

1003
01:22:38.750 --> 01:22:39.709
Tad Eggleston: Very cool.

1004
01:22:40.870 --> 01:22:47.380
Tad Eggleston: The secret history. I got to finish writing my my stuff, so I have it for the secret history of the giant man. There we go.

1005
01:22:48.930 --> 01:22:50.560
Tad Eggleston: That's a that's a good

1006
01:22:51.320 --> 01:22:55.269
Tad Eggleston: I mean, you didn't stump me, but not a lot of people wind up stumping me.

1007
01:22:55.270 --> 01:22:58.989
Duane Murray: No, I can't imagine. I thought maybe Maggie Garrison would have got you. That's that's.

1008
01:22:58.990 --> 01:23:03.879
Tad Eggleston: I like it might have, except that

1009
01:23:04.120 --> 01:23:06.679
Tad Eggleston: Chris Schweizer turned me on to Lewis Trondheim.

1010
01:23:06.680 --> 01:23:07.600
Duane Murray: Oh, okay.

1011
01:23:08.160 --> 01:23:09.660
Tad Eggleston: Like a couple years ago.

1012
01:23:09.660 --> 01:23:10.529
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1013
01:23:11.120 --> 01:23:14.909
Tad Eggleston: And it's there's not enough Trondheim available in English.

1014
01:23:15.730 --> 01:23:18.630
Duane Murray: Jump on it right sweet.

1015
01:23:19.515 --> 01:23:22.760
Tad Eggleston: Because I'm enough of a word Guy, that I have trouble

1016
01:23:23.600 --> 01:23:37.599
Tad Eggleston: just getting the stuff to to enjoy the art. If I can't read the words, yeah, though I have occasionally bought things in other languages and used Google translate particularly because Google translate has gotten exponentially better.

1017
01:23:37.600 --> 01:23:38.190
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1018
01:23:38.540 --> 01:23:48.610
Tad Eggleston: Since they applied machine learning to it, which is even before they started talking about AI, yeah, exactly. There were a handful of us that noticed that Google translate got

1019
01:23:49.400 --> 01:23:53.770
Tad Eggleston: exponentially better overnight about 5 years ago.

1020
01:23:54.010 --> 01:24:00.379
Duane Murray: It's yeah. It's funny, because better place is now in 4 languages.

1021
01:24:00.860 --> 01:24:01.220
Tad Eggleston: Wow!

1022
01:24:01.220 --> 01:24:05.240
Duane Murray: French, English, French, Portuguese, Spanish.

1023
01:24:05.370 --> 01:24:22.489
Duane Murray: and so I'll occasionally, you know, find whether it be a social media post or a review, and I have to run it through Google like, did they? Did. They like it or not like it? I have no idea they'll do a heart, emoji, a bunch of words, and then a frown. Emoji, I'm like, what's up.

1024
01:24:22.800 --> 01:24:26.269
Tad Eggleston: I know a couple of people who've done translations of things.

1025
01:24:26.938 --> 01:24:34.390
Tad Eggleston: One who translates things from English into Portuguese, and one who translates things from French into English.

1026
01:24:34.983 --> 01:24:42.090
Tad Eggleston: But I haven't, and I keep meaning to get them both together on an episode together. But I don't think I've really talked to anybody about

1027
01:24:42.400 --> 01:24:50.639
Tad Eggleston: like what level of involvement do you have, or feel like taking? When you have your book translated.

1028
01:24:50.640 --> 01:24:51.190
Duane Murray: Yeah. Yeah.

1029
01:24:51.537 --> 01:24:56.050
Duane Murray: Cause. Obviously, I'm assuming you don't know the 3 other languages. So like

1030
01:24:56.050 --> 01:24:58.159
Duane Murray: I had 0. Say, like, it's not like I.

1031
01:24:58.160 --> 01:24:59.880
Tad Eggleston: Okay. So you don't have any. Say at all.

1032
01:24:59.880 --> 01:25:03.209
Duane Murray: None. Okay, like I don't know. Some of the colloquialism.

1033
01:25:03.210 --> 01:25:06.979
Tad Eggleston: So they they could make it say something completely different, and you wouldn't know.

1034
01:25:06.980 --> 01:25:07.860
Duane Murray: No idea.

1035
01:25:08.300 --> 01:25:13.880
Tad Eggleston: Or have any. Say you wouldn't be able to say no, he's not supposed to say Fuck, you, grandpa.

1036
01:25:13.880 --> 01:25:16.039
Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, it's just.

1037
01:25:16.040 --> 01:25:17.890
Tad Eggleston: Would be a swear jar thing.

1038
01:25:17.890 --> 01:25:29.669
Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And that's the like, some of the like I'm assuming. So there's some very North North American things in there that they need to just sort of find their version of that. And I'd be so curious to to know.

1039
01:25:29.970 --> 01:25:33.709
Tad Eggleston: No, I need to. I need to get the translators together to

1040
01:25:35.010 --> 01:25:43.539
Tad Eggleston: to have that conversation someday, just because I'm fascinated because I figured out a long time ago how? How important translation can be! Because, like

1041
01:25:43.670 --> 01:25:52.170
Tad Eggleston: my favorite prose book of all time. And of course, because I'm me, it happens to have pictures is the Little Prince, by Antoine, Saint

1042
01:25:53.510 --> 01:25:55.096
Tad Eggleston: Saint Exuppery,

1043
01:25:56.900 --> 01:26:02.660
Tad Eggleston: And I remember when the new

1044
01:26:02.760 --> 01:26:05.290
Tad Eggleston: better translation came out in like

1045
01:26:05.850 --> 01:26:18.689
Tad Eggleston: in 2,000, something like that. The blue cover rather than the white cover. Catherine Woods, I now know, is the translator of the original one, and I won't buy copies that aren't translated by Catherine Woods. Because

1046
01:26:19.210 --> 01:26:25.400
Tad Eggleston: I'm like, Okay, I'll get to do translation. And I start reading it. I'm like this is flat.

1047
01:26:25.400 --> 01:26:26.180
Duane Murray: Right.

1048
01:26:26.180 --> 01:26:28.190
Tad Eggleston: All the whimsy is gone.

1049
01:26:28.190 --> 01:26:29.010
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1050
01:26:29.010 --> 01:26:33.449
Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean literally unlike page one. It has one of my favorite lines, you know.

1051
01:26:35.110 --> 01:26:42.260
Tad Eggleston: Grownups never understand anything by themselves, and it's tiresome for children to always and forever be explaining things to them.

1052
01:26:42.570 --> 01:26:43.260
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1053
01:26:43.260 --> 01:26:50.920
Tad Eggleston: And it was retranslated as grownups don't understand, and it's hard for children to explain things to them.

1054
01:26:50.920 --> 01:26:51.690
Duane Murray: Hmm.

1055
01:26:52.400 --> 01:26:53.929
Tad Eggleston: And I'm like, no.

1056
01:26:54.040 --> 01:27:02.970
Tad Eggleston: no, that's not the line that's nowhere near the line. What's more, is exuppery, was alive for the original translation.

1057
01:27:03.120 --> 01:27:03.730
Duane Murray: Right.

1058
01:27:03.900 --> 01:27:05.330
Tad Eggleston: And bilingual.

1059
01:27:05.470 --> 01:27:06.370
Duane Murray: Right.

1060
01:27:06.700 --> 01:27:12.466
Tad Eggleston: So, you know, which is I mean, I get fascinated by things like

1061
01:27:14.880 --> 01:27:24.500
Tad Eggleston: I don't know if you know Amanda Gorman, the poet, she was the poet Laure. She was poet Laureate, the 1st teen poet laureate to to do an inauguration. She did the inaugural.

1062
01:27:24.500 --> 01:27:25.760
Duane Murray: Oh yes!

1063
01:27:25.760 --> 01:27:27.050
Tad Eggleston: Biden's inauguration.

1064
01:27:27.050 --> 01:27:27.960
Duane Murray: Yes, yes.

1065
01:27:27.960 --> 01:27:31.200
Tad Eggleston: And her 1st book is outstanding right?

1066
01:27:31.693 --> 01:27:37.439
Tad Eggleston: And I remember that there was a huge and I don't. I don't actually remember how it how it played out.

1067
01:27:37.620 --> 01:27:41.200
Tad Eggleston: But there was a huge to do, because, like the

1068
01:27:41.580 --> 01:27:47.210
Tad Eggleston: the Finnish translation, or something was being done by a young Finnish poet that wasn't black.

1069
01:27:47.680 --> 01:27:48.130
Duane Murray: Hmm.

1070
01:27:48.130 --> 01:28:07.979
Tad Eggleston: And Gorman was okay with it, because Gorman's like, I love their poetry and having a non poet translate poetry doesn't strike me as a good idea, but other people were like, no, this is distinctively black voice. You have to make certain that. And while I understand that argument.

1071
01:28:10.390 --> 01:28:19.770
Tad Eggleston: unless you can find somebody who understands poetry well enough, and understands Finnish English, and is black, which seems to be a lot of different things.

1072
01:28:19.990 --> 01:28:21.020
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1073
01:28:21.230 --> 01:28:35.229
Tad Eggleston: You know, one of my favorite poets is Wieslaw Zimborska, who's Polish, won the the Nobel Prize in, I want to say 1997. It's a year after Seamus Haney that that much I remember.

1074
01:28:37.140 --> 01:28:39.220
Tad Eggleston: but there's massive difference.

1075
01:28:39.540 --> 01:28:42.729
Tad Eggleston: And and how much I like her poetry based on the translation.

1076
01:28:42.960 --> 01:28:43.640
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1077
01:28:44.200 --> 01:28:48.870
Tad Eggleston: You know, because poetry has a rhythm to it.

1078
01:28:48.870 --> 01:28:51.749
Duane Murray: Yeah, it's a it's a it's a major thing. I I.

1079
01:28:51.750 --> 01:28:57.857
Tad Eggleston: Right, the difference in translation. So you know, hopefully, all the translations are good. And

1080
01:28:59.820 --> 01:29:07.680
Tad Eggleston: I mean, well, maybe maybe I'll have to have you come when I? Because because it's a Chris Cicada who is a

1081
01:29:07.820 --> 01:29:10.800
Tad Eggleston: a co-owner of Lion's Tooth in

1082
01:29:11.090 --> 01:29:20.839
Tad Eggleston: Milwaukee, and and and translates books into Portuguese, including she she trans. She got to translate love and rockets into Portuguese.

1083
01:29:20.840 --> 01:29:21.610
Duane Murray: Oh, wow!

1084
01:29:21.770 --> 01:29:24.070
Tad Eggleston: Right, and Matt Madden.

1085
01:29:24.900 --> 01:29:27.669
Duane Murray: Who do you know Matt Madden's work name? But I don't.

1086
01:29:27.670 --> 01:29:32.940
Tad Eggleston: Oh, Matt! Well, I mean Matt Madden and his wife, Jessica Abel are both teach comics.

1087
01:29:32.940 --> 01:29:33.530
Duane Murray: Yes, yes.

1088
01:29:33.530 --> 01:29:38.960
Tad Eggleston: But they, they wrote drawing, drawing words, and and writing pictures is.

1089
01:29:38.960 --> 01:29:42.790
Duane Murray: Oh, I haven't! I haven't. I haven't read it yet, but it's on my bedside. I I just.

1090
01:29:42.790 --> 01:29:45.070
Tad Eggleston: Oh, it's it's it's amazing! Amazing.

1091
01:29:45.650 --> 01:29:49.449
Tad Eggleston: His newest book is is called 6 Treasures of the Spiral.

1092
01:29:49.450 --> 01:29:49.910
Duane Murray: It's okay.

1093
01:29:50.700 --> 01:29:54.380
Tad Eggleston: And it's all about making comics, using constraints.

1094
01:29:54.800 --> 01:29:55.370
Duane Murray: Oh, okay.

1095
01:29:55.370 --> 01:29:57.819
Tad Eggleston: So, so, so like it's.

1096
01:29:59.280 --> 01:30:06.840
Tad Eggleston: And for that matter, Matt's probably most famous for a book called it's it's it's it's taken from the

1097
01:30:07.150 --> 01:30:10.689
Tad Eggleston: forget what the name of it is that the the elements of style?

1098
01:30:11.610 --> 01:30:16.849
Tad Eggleston: And it's 99 ways to tell a story. And he takes the same one page story.

1099
01:30:16.850 --> 01:30:18.460
Duane Murray: Yes, I know that.

1100
01:30:18.460 --> 01:30:20.180
Tad Eggleston: 99 different ways.

1101
01:30:20.180 --> 01:30:25.230
Duane Murray: Yeah, I had. I don't have it anymore. But I I cause I I lived in small apartments and had to purchase.

1102
01:30:25.230 --> 01:30:25.959
Duane Murray: No, no, I get it.

1103
01:30:25.960 --> 01:30:27.580
Duane Murray: They didn't have that book. Yeah, I had that.

1104
01:30:29.430 --> 01:30:31.870
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. We had a fascinating conversation with him.

1105
01:30:31.870 --> 01:30:32.610
Duane Murray: Hmm.

1106
01:30:32.895 --> 01:30:48.594
Tad Eggleston: But I want to bring them back to, but but if I do, I might have to to, since one of them's Portuguese. I might have to say, Hey, do you happen to have a digital copy of your Portuguese version? Let's let's have the Portuguese translator come, come, tell you what some pages say.

1107
01:30:49.170 --> 01:30:54.550
Duane Murray: So curious. Yeah, I don't. I have no idea. But it's very cool. I mean, it's very cool to have it out there, and.

1108
01:30:54.550 --> 01:31:00.629
Tad Eggleston: Well, and and that's 1 of the things I love about comics is that, like every part matters.

1109
01:31:01.620 --> 01:31:05.830
Tad Eggleston: you know, there's a little bit of a hierarchy in terms of who can ruin a book.

1110
01:31:06.080 --> 01:31:06.660
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1111
01:31:07.020 --> 01:31:08.920
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I think it's it's

1112
01:31:10.040 --> 01:31:13.900
Tad Eggleston: I think the writer has the most power for a book to make a book bad.

1113
01:31:14.060 --> 01:31:14.600
Duane Murray: Right.

1114
01:31:16.350 --> 01:31:18.200
Tad Eggleston: Though the artist is close.

1115
01:31:18.758 --> 01:31:22.670
Duane Murray: Well, you know it, but it's funny.

1116
01:31:22.670 --> 01:31:27.209
Tad Eggleston: Artist actually has the most power to make a book good, though the writer is close.

1117
01:31:27.660 --> 01:31:38.670
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, an artist can can absolutely save a book and can elevate a book. For me. I mean the part of the job as a writer is, is

1118
01:31:38.850 --> 01:31:42.980
Duane Murray: sort of the same as a director in a film in the sense of

1119
01:31:43.260 --> 01:31:50.389
Duane Murray: a director. If you, if you cast well and you have the right Dp, that's 80% of the film.

1120
01:31:50.390 --> 01:31:50.880
Tad Eggleston: Right.

1121
01:31:50.880 --> 01:31:55.320
Duane Murray: And same as like as a writer. It's like, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna find

1122
01:31:55.460 --> 01:31:59.750
Duane Murray: the best people that make me look better than I am.

1123
01:31:59.750 --> 01:32:02.520
Tad Eggleston: Though. That's that's often the editor job, too.

1124
01:32:02.520 --> 01:32:04.330
Duane Murray: Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.

1125
01:32:04.330 --> 01:32:15.399
Tad Eggleston: That's 1 of the reasons why people like Shelly Bond are so important. Right? They not only discovered the talent they managed to go. You would work really well with you.

1126
01:32:15.400 --> 01:32:16.180
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1127
01:32:16.600 --> 01:32:34.469
Duane Murray: very curious, because I've only done so far in my short little career. It's all Creator own. So I'm doing that stuff. I'd love to know if someone thinks there are certain artists out there who would? They would pair up with me like I'd be curious to know what that looks like.

1128
01:32:34.640 --> 01:32:46.930
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Well, I mean, I'll tell you that there are a number of very good freelance editors out there, you know. Miss Bond can be hired. Heather Antos can be hired. Michelle Abinator can be hired.

1129
01:32:47.240 --> 01:32:47.600
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1130
01:32:47.600 --> 01:32:56.450
Tad Eggleston: You know, and and obviously they wouldn't necessarily be looking at everybody everywhere. But they'd certainly be thinking they'd look at your script, and they'd think of who they knew.

1131
01:32:56.450 --> 01:32:57.430
Duane Murray: Hmm, yeah.

1132
01:32:57.960 --> 01:32:58.860
Tad Eggleston: You know.

1133
01:33:01.090 --> 01:33:11.360
Tad Eggleston: and I think I think you know one of the Kickstarters that we've been talking about lately, is there's a there's. There's a book coming up where they took one script and gave it to 4 different artists.

1134
01:33:11.820 --> 01:33:12.270
Duane Murray: Oh!

1135
01:33:13.420 --> 01:33:15.360
Tad Eggleston: You know. So we get to see.

1136
01:33:15.470 --> 01:33:26.979
Tad Eggleston: you know, Shelly put out a series. She's got her editing trilogy the 3rd one just finished as Kickstarter, so it hasn't come out, but I think it was in the second one, where she took the same

1137
01:33:27.250 --> 01:33:30.739
Tad Eggleston: pencils and gave it to 4 different inkers.

1138
01:33:31.000 --> 01:33:32.560
Duane Murray: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

1139
01:33:32.780 --> 01:33:38.560
Tad Eggleston: And you've got 4 like, really, surprisingly different results.

1140
01:33:38.560 --> 01:33:39.490
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1141
01:33:39.490 --> 01:33:41.930
Tad Eggleston: From being handed. The same set of pencils.

1142
01:33:41.930 --> 01:33:58.439
Duane Murray: There's a there's a there's a is it? Hero initiative? There's a there's a charitable organization that does, and I forget what they call it. But there's an auction they do where it's that sort of thing. They'll take a blue line of a piece, and they'll have 30 anchors do their version of it, and then auction them off.

1143
01:33:58.440 --> 01:33:59.190
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

1144
01:33:59.684 --> 01:34:00.180
Duane Murray: I.

1145
01:34:00.180 --> 01:34:02.730
Tad Eggleston: I mean heroes, hero initiative does.

1146
01:34:04.480 --> 01:34:06.339
Tad Eggleston: Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute.

1147
01:34:06.620 --> 01:34:10.030
Tad Eggleston: Hero initiative. The 100 cover book project.

1148
01:34:11.720 --> 01:34:13.540
Duane Murray: Yeah, no, it wasn't. It wasn't that.

1149
01:34:13.540 --> 01:34:14.849
Tad Eggleston: No, that's a different one.

1150
01:34:14.850 --> 01:34:17.760
Duane Murray: Yeah, it was. I can't remember who who did it. I don't think it was.

1151
01:34:17.910 --> 01:34:23.629
Duane Murray: It might have been a like a specific con, like a comic con.

1152
01:34:23.760 --> 01:34:27.179
Duane Murray: and it was their sort of charitable arm that would.

1153
01:34:27.180 --> 01:34:33.150
Tad Eggleston: But but I mean hero initiative is at a lot of cons to.

1154
01:34:34.460 --> 01:34:40.570
Tad Eggleston: and often has something I mean so wouldn't wouldn't rule out the possibility that it could still be them

1155
01:34:41.290 --> 01:34:43.010
Tad Eggleston: just by being.

1156
01:34:44.230 --> 01:34:50.189
Tad Eggleston: Add a con. I'm flipping through the stuff they have available right now, because that might tell me

1157
01:34:52.570 --> 01:34:55.099
Tad Eggleston: don't know what their 100 project is.

1158
01:34:55.660 --> 01:34:58.689
Tad Eggleston: They seem to have lots of different 100 projects.

1159
01:35:00.180 --> 01:35:00.840
Tad Eggleston: No.

1160
01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:09.356
Tad Eggleston: I don't know what it means. But yeah, no, that that sounds like a fantastic

1161
01:35:09.990 --> 01:35:10.920
Duane Murray: Really wild.

1162
01:35:10.920 --> 01:35:11.870
Tad Eggleston: Raise money.

1163
01:35:12.560 --> 01:35:13.110
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1164
01:35:13.500 --> 01:35:18.409
Tad Eggleston: And I'm all for any and all people who raise money, for

1165
01:35:18.610 --> 01:35:24.949
Tad Eggleston: I mean the hero initiative. I've known people who have who have benefited from the hero initiative, because.

1166
01:35:25.050 --> 01:35:30.420
Tad Eggleston: as as we've talked about a couple of times, comics doesn't pay that well.

1167
01:35:31.050 --> 01:35:33.369
Duane Murray: No, it's okay.

1168
01:35:33.490 --> 01:35:34.759
Duane Murray: They don't pay at all.

1169
01:35:35.070 --> 01:35:40.249
Tad Eggleston: Right. Comics doesn't pay that well, and and when you go back

1170
01:35:41.200 --> 01:35:49.219
Tad Eggleston: in time, not only did it not pay well, but they didn't get to keep their original art. They didn't own any of their stories. Yeah.

1171
01:35:49.220 --> 01:35:49.880
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1172
01:35:49.880 --> 01:35:56.809
Tad Eggleston: You know. So there are a lot of people who are responsible for massive amounts of the things that we love

1173
01:35:57.260 --> 01:36:00.580
Tad Eggleston: that like. If they've got health bills, have problems.

1174
01:36:00.580 --> 01:36:01.390
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1175
01:36:01.670 --> 01:36:04.040
Tad Eggleston: And that's 1 of the things that the here initiative

1176
01:36:04.540 --> 01:36:09.770
Tad Eggleston: helps out a lot with. Right is, you know, when various

1177
01:36:10.120 --> 01:36:19.269
Tad Eggleston: they think they help out stores, too, but but they primarily creators and whatnot, you know, if they run into financial hardship for one reason or another, can apply for grants.

1178
01:36:19.270 --> 01:36:19.800
Duane Murray: Right.

1179
01:36:19.800 --> 01:36:31.005
Tad Eggleston: I don't know the entire process. I need to have somebody from the hero initiative on at some point, because I am really curious to find out more about that. I always talk to them some at cons.

1180
01:36:31.820 --> 01:36:49.019
Tad Eggleston: because it's such a close knit industry. I mean, I'm certain you're discovering that pretty quickly that, like everybody knows everybody, everybody likes everybody. There aren't any jerks, not saying there are no jerks, but even the jerks try to keep the, you know, for the most part keep their jerk stuff

1181
01:36:51.140 --> 01:36:53.099
Tad Eggleston: away from the industry.

1182
01:36:53.100 --> 01:36:53.570
Duane Murray: Right.

1183
01:36:55.340 --> 01:36:56.820
Tad Eggleston: You know.

1184
01:36:57.200 --> 01:37:04.810
Tad Eggleston: Occasionally they're jerks in the industry. But there's a lot more where

1185
01:37:04.950 --> 01:37:10.910
Tad Eggleston: they're jerks to people who are either tangential or not really in the industry at all.

1186
01:37:10.910 --> 01:37:11.959
Duane Murray: Right, yeah.

1187
01:37:13.030 --> 01:37:16.919
Tad Eggleston: Because relationships are necessary in this industry.

1188
01:37:16.920 --> 01:37:17.460
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1189
01:37:18.730 --> 01:37:32.550
Tad Eggleston: There's not enough money to work with an artist that you don't want to work with, you know. And you can't be jerks to fans, because too often you have to sell by hand over the table at the con.

1190
01:37:32.690 --> 01:37:33.250
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1191
01:37:35.390 --> 01:37:38.980
Tad Eggleston: You know? So yeah, so.

1192
01:37:38.980 --> 01:37:41.569
Duane Murray: Would you like? I don't know. I'm I'm anytime.

1193
01:37:41.670 --> 01:37:48.860
Duane Murray: Anyone is is putting down their money and books are. They're expensive now. So any anyone wants to buy.

1194
01:37:49.550 --> 01:37:50.960
Duane Murray: Whatever it is I'm making.

1195
01:37:50.960 --> 01:38:03.730
Tad Eggleston: They're they're expensive now. And arguably, they're still. I mean, this is, this is an argument that I have with Shelly every time she comes on to do a Kickstarter because she can't bring herself to charge enough

1196
01:38:03.890 --> 01:38:05.610
Tad Eggleston: for the books that she makes.

1197
01:38:05.610 --> 01:38:06.530
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1198
01:38:06.810 --> 01:38:16.529
Tad Eggleston: She's like, Well, who would pay that? I'm like, look at the other stuff on Kickstarter. People understand that when you're on Kickstarter they're paying you.

1199
01:38:16.910 --> 01:38:27.309
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, they're not looking for value in that. Oh, wow! I got this great huge thing for very little money. They're looking for value in that.

1200
01:38:27.650 --> 01:38:34.960
Tad Eggleston: I paid a reasonable amount to get something awesome from somebody that I like, and they got paid.

1201
01:38:34.960 --> 01:38:36.000
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1202
01:38:36.340 --> 01:38:56.070
Tad Eggleston: You know, just like I've had. I've had arguments with people. No, don't shut down your Patreon, because you've been so busy with life and health issues and whatnot that you haven't managed to post anything on it. Doesn't that mean you need the money more? And they're like, yes, and I'm like. Yes, but but

1203
01:38:56.920 --> 01:39:07.380
Tad Eggleston: you need the money more. But you're not well, but I'm not giving them any for, and I'm like, if you really think that we're all set. Put up one thing that says, Hey.

1204
01:39:07.810 --> 01:39:09.620
Tad Eggleston: I'm going through some stuff.

1205
01:39:10.570 --> 01:39:13.910
Tad Eggleston: If you want me to pause your payments for a month, I will.

1206
01:39:14.790 --> 01:39:15.250
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1207
01:39:15.250 --> 01:39:19.670
Tad Eggleston: If you don't thank you from the bottom of my heart.

1208
01:39:19.670 --> 01:39:22.200
Duane Murray: Yeah, be back as soon as I can.

1209
01:39:22.200 --> 01:39:22.740
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1210
01:39:23.130 --> 01:39:26.749
Tad Eggleston: Don't stop taking my money because you need it.

1211
01:39:27.070 --> 01:39:28.049
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1212
01:39:29.990 --> 01:39:37.790
Tad Eggleston: But that's what happens when you have artists in charge of money, and that's also how they get ripped off through the years by the people with the money.

1213
01:39:37.790 --> 01:39:38.350
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1214
01:39:38.840 --> 01:39:42.870
Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean you, you've worked in film. You really see it?

1215
01:39:42.870 --> 01:39:45.649
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.

1216
01:39:45.900 --> 01:39:50.139
Tad Eggleston: You know, I I yeah, the film industry I feel like.

1217
01:39:50.810 --> 01:39:57.430
Tad Eggleston: and it was briefly upended in the nineties by Miramax until Disney bought them. Yeah, you know.

1218
01:39:57.860 --> 01:40:07.350
Tad Eggleston: the film industry is always ripe for one small company that's willing to break even rather than make billions.

1219
01:40:07.880 --> 01:40:08.400
Duane Murray: And there was.

1220
01:40:08.400 --> 01:40:09.789
Tad Eggleston: Upend the industry.

1221
01:40:09.790 --> 01:40:16.550
Duane Murray: Then it was a 24 for a while, right? They I mean, they were losing money for a while and making some of the best films.

1222
01:40:16.890 --> 01:40:22.480
Tad Eggleston: Right right. But but but if if you work on the smaller budget and.

1223
01:40:23.120 --> 01:40:23.670
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1224
01:40:24.170 --> 01:40:26.430
Tad Eggleston: If you're, you know, if you go. Okay.

1225
01:40:26.640 --> 01:40:29.209
Tad Eggleston: we're not making 100 million dollar movies.

1226
01:40:29.210 --> 01:40:29.810
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1227
01:40:29.960 --> 01:40:33.299
Tad Eggleston: We're making 15 to 30 million dollar movies.

1228
01:40:33.710 --> 01:40:37.669
Tad Eggleston: And if you if you break even, we'll make your next movie.

1229
01:40:38.130 --> 01:40:39.190
Duane Murray: Yeah, and that's.

1230
01:40:39.190 --> 01:40:41.949
Tad Eggleston: And every once in a while we'll have a pulp fiction.

1231
01:40:42.400 --> 01:40:44.740
Duane Murray: And I was coming from like

1232
01:40:44.930 --> 01:40:54.820
Duane Murray: a film. I I wrote with my old writing partner called Red Rover. It's on. It's on Tubi. We made that movie for $20,000. Like we.

1233
01:40:54.820 --> 01:40:56.209
Duane Murray: those like clerks range.

1234
01:40:56.210 --> 01:41:03.150
Duane Murray: Yeah, exactly. We. I made 3 clerk's range movies in a row. That for the.

1235
01:41:03.150 --> 01:41:06.340
Tad Eggleston: Yet still had comic books left to sell for art.

1236
01:41:06.520 --> 01:41:36.269
Duane Murray: Well, yeah, I know. And that is for the it's for the love of the thing. But but I cannot do that anymore. It's so in the film industry. To do that level of independent filmmaking is so hard. Now for a while it was nice and easy, and we had, you know, Sundance, would you? That was your lottery ticket, like there was a chance. Maybe Sundance would show an indie film. Sundance isn't showing indie films anymore, like not truly films anymore, and slam dance is barely even doing that. So I got out.

1237
01:41:36.270 --> 01:41:38.189
Tad Eggleston: Toronto, not as much.

1238
01:41:38.190 --> 01:41:40.589
Duane Murray: No, no, God, that is Ronald. Right

1239
01:41:40.590 --> 01:42:00.480
Duane Murray: I am. I love tiff. I was a tiff producer. I went through a lot of their development programs that is. Now it's a Canne equivalent. It's a market festival. It's not an independent festival that's showing new, cool movies. It's where the studios

1240
01:42:00.630 --> 01:42:05.320
Duane Murray: show their award contenders, you know, and they get all the best slots and.

1241
01:42:05.770 --> 01:42:06.280
Tad Eggleston: Right.

1242
01:42:06.680 --> 01:42:07.310
Duane Murray: And I.

1243
01:42:07.310 --> 01:42:11.690
Tad Eggleston: Pay a lot of money for that, so I mean I get it. But it's still like

1244
01:42:12.214 --> 01:42:15.530
Tad Eggleston: So where's the little guy supposed to go.

1245
01:42:15.970 --> 01:42:21.570
Duane Murray: The little guy now goes to like Red Rover premiered at Austin. The Austin Film Festival was a great.

1246
01:42:21.570 --> 01:42:25.029
Tad Eggleston: Is that is that tied South by southwest? Or is that a separate.

1247
01:42:25.030 --> 01:42:33.150
Duane Murray: No, it's its own thing, and it's more writers focused. They they generally have a writers screenwriting conference alongside of it with very big

1248
01:42:33.888 --> 01:42:38.899
Duane Murray: no. South and south by is another one. South by, when it started, was was a sort of

1249
01:42:39.010 --> 01:42:44.699
Duane Murray: Sundance competitor, and then and then they had the music side of it, and then it exploded to every.

1250
01:42:44.700 --> 01:42:48.630
Tad Eggleston: Music in movies. And then, yeah, no soon as it explodes, it's

1251
01:42:49.200 --> 01:42:53.009
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I don't like to say that it's not cool anymore, because, you know.

1252
01:42:53.210 --> 01:43:10.220
Tad Eggleston: I always hated in high school the people who would talk about their favorite band selling out. And I'm like, Wait a minute. Wait a minute. They don't have to work at Walmart in between tours anymore. So you're calling them a sellout. Really, that's what you want. You want your favorite musicians to not eat.

1253
01:43:10.390 --> 01:43:11.040
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1254
01:43:11.240 --> 01:43:12.889
Tad Eggleston: How does that make sense.

1255
01:43:12.890 --> 01:43:29.220
Duane Murray: I whenever I, because I know people, you know, sort of look at a thing that a comic or something that gets optioned by them. And and people are like, Oh, look! And I'm like, that is amazing. That means they actually maybe got some money because they sure as hell didn't get any for the comic. So it's great that

1256
01:43:29.410 --> 01:43:35.920
Duane Murray: they they pocket that option money, it's and then if it like something like 4 kids, and then it goes into production. Well, now, you're getting a production boat.

1257
01:43:35.920 --> 01:43:36.390
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

1258
01:43:36.390 --> 01:43:41.349
Duane Murray: I know Matt and Tyler got even a little bit more money for that, and I say, good for that.

1259
01:43:41.350 --> 01:43:43.190
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.

1260
01:43:43.570 --> 01:43:50.780
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I mean, I, the example I always use is, do you know the badly drawn boy.

1261
01:43:51.050 --> 01:43:51.830
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1262
01:43:52.080 --> 01:43:55.539
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, I remember the 1st time I heard a badly drawn boy

1263
01:43:55.740 --> 01:44:03.949
Tad Eggleston: song and a target commercial. And my immediate. My immediate response was Damon's getting paid.

1264
01:44:03.950 --> 01:44:07.750
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1265
01:44:08.655 --> 01:44:16.029
Tad Eggleston: Because, you know it is. It's it's so hard to actually make

1266
01:44:17.170 --> 01:44:20.039
Tad Eggleston: money as an artist of any kind.

1267
01:44:20.040 --> 01:44:20.730
Duane Murray: Yes.

1268
01:44:22.060 --> 01:44:31.540
Duane Murray: I support my myself, or did support myself more so through acting in things which included commercial voiceovers

1269
01:44:32.040 --> 01:44:34.640
Tad Eggleston: Actually, that's what we haven't talked about at all.

1270
01:44:34.790 --> 01:44:39.849
Tad Eggleston: I wanted to a say on air. You got to work with Aaron Sorkin.

1271
01:44:39.850 --> 01:44:40.250
Duane Murray: Yes.

1272
01:44:43.240 --> 01:44:46.309
Tad Eggleston: Very lucky, and I want him to write a comic book someday.

1273
01:44:46.310 --> 01:44:48.439
Duane Murray: It'd be wordy. It'd be very wordy.

1274
01:44:48.440 --> 01:44:49.469
Tad Eggleston: I'm okay with that.

1275
01:44:49.470 --> 01:44:53.109
Duane Murray: I'm already I'm the same. So I yeah, it would be.

1276
01:44:53.110 --> 01:45:03.039
Tad Eggleston: I mean, that means that it's down to the editor and the artists to to spread it out rather than having it be wordy. On one page.

1277
01:45:03.583 --> 01:45:04.126
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1278
01:45:05.270 --> 01:45:13.580
Tad Eggleston: Which is, I mean, and that's the thing I mean the guy who famously said about his West wing scripts talk faster.

1279
01:45:13.580 --> 01:45:14.510
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1280
01:45:14.510 --> 01:45:20.230
Tad Eggleston: To me. That's why comics is his medium, because they don't have to talk faster. They can just do more pages.

1281
01:45:20.230 --> 01:45:21.119
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1282
01:45:23.840 --> 01:45:25.050
Tad Eggleston: Do more pages.

1283
01:45:25.050 --> 01:45:33.030
Duane Murray: Yeah, it was very. You know. It was very cool. I I did a I did a couple of auditions, and then the last call back was, was with him in the room.

1284
01:45:33.230 --> 01:45:33.620
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

1285
01:45:34.090 --> 01:45:36.059
Duane Murray: It sort of dawned on me

1286
01:45:36.690 --> 01:45:55.279
Duane Murray: after the fact after I did that I'm going to say Aaron Sorkin words like they're going to come out of my mouth right? I'm the one saying them. And it's an incredible experience. And I knew with his stuff is like, I'm just going to do this quick and fast. I'm not going to overact it. I'm just going to get through it, because I know that's what he likes.

1287
01:45:55.860 --> 01:46:04.410
Tad Eggleston: So so one of my formerly favorite comic writers that no longer gets named, used to have

1288
01:46:04.680 --> 01:46:09.860
Tad Eggleston: and still has, but he used to use it even more

1289
01:46:10.640 --> 01:46:14.639
Tad Eggleston: email mailing list. We just send out random things right.

1290
01:46:15.410 --> 01:46:17.119
Tad Eggleston: And he got

1291
01:46:17.630 --> 01:46:29.809
Tad Eggleston: a sneak peek. And it was it was floating around the Internet. So as soon as he wrote about it, I went and found it too, and agreed with him. But but the message that he he shot out over his with his

1292
01:46:30.960 --> 01:46:33.199
Tad Eggleston: mailing list was just.

1293
01:46:34.980 --> 01:46:41.899
Tad Eggleston: and you know we already knew he was a sorkin fan, but he said, just read Pilot script of studio 60.

1294
01:46:43.330 --> 01:46:47.710
Duane Murray: Nearly gave up writing. Yeah, man, I want to break that man's hands.

1295
01:46:48.480 --> 01:46:53.179
Duane Murray: Yes, you know, that's how I felt.

1296
01:46:54.030 --> 01:47:06.770
Duane Murray: Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, eternal sunshine, spotless mind! Charlie Kaufman. I walked out of that film thinking, why bother? Why, why am I? But why bother doing this?

1297
01:47:06.770 --> 01:47:10.099
Tad Eggleston: I'm in a minority that I didn't love that film.

1298
01:47:10.100 --> 01:47:10.949
Duane Murray: There you go!

1299
01:47:11.650 --> 01:47:15.440
Tad Eggleston: But I think I think part of it comes from my work in healthcare.

1300
01:47:16.470 --> 01:47:19.359
Tad Eggleston: And the fact that I'm looking at that and going

1301
01:47:19.710 --> 01:47:28.180
Tad Eggleston: what people aren't thinking about with this film is, if they get as far as they got in this film. It means

1302
01:47:29.470 --> 01:47:34.370
Tad Eggleston: all health care, regulation broken down.

1303
01:47:34.370 --> 01:47:35.110
Duane Murray: Yes.

1304
01:47:37.460 --> 01:47:37.960
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1305
01:47:37.960 --> 01:47:39.929
Tad Eggleston: All healthcare regulation is broken down.

1306
01:47:40.555 --> 01:47:41.180
Duane Murray: Yes.

1307
01:47:41.640 --> 01:47:47.919
Tad Eggleston: And therefore the world we're seeing would be way more dystopic than what they're showing.

1308
01:47:47.920 --> 01:47:50.340
Duane Murray: That's a horror film. No, yeah, it's a horror film.

1309
01:47:50.340 --> 01:47:56.480
Tad Eggleston: You know, and it was all I could think about. I mean, I got why people liked it, but.

1310
01:47:58.190 --> 01:47:59.240
Duane Murray: Yeah, just.

1311
01:47:59.580 --> 01:48:00.650
Tad Eggleston: I couldn't.

1312
01:48:01.270 --> 01:48:01.680
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1313
01:48:01.680 --> 01:48:21.960
Tad Eggleston: And particularly because I watched as part of a like. I watched it relatively recently. For the 1st time I kind of deliberately skipped it for a long time, and everybody else in the, you know, it was like a movie discussion group. Everybody else liked it, and I understood why they liked it, and whatnot. But but 2 things first, st the only thing that everybody else didn't like is, they're like.

1314
01:48:22.110 --> 01:48:28.949
Tad Eggleston: I can't believe that the the healthcare professionals acted so unprofessionally, specifically the people that were like

1315
01:48:29.760 --> 01:48:32.319
Tad Eggleston: messing around at the house while

1316
01:48:33.540 --> 01:48:37.560
Tad Eggleston: I'm like, are you kidding me? The lowest paid people here.

1317
01:48:38.980 --> 01:48:43.180
Tad Eggleston: doing the most boring job here. And yes, shocked that they were

1318
01:48:44.090 --> 01:48:48.560
Tad Eggleston: drinking and smoking and messing around. Yeah, what world do you guys live in?

1319
01:48:49.920 --> 01:48:53.050
Tad Eggleston: That was like the most realistic part of the movie.

1320
01:48:57.060 --> 01:48:58.230
Tad Eggleston: But yeah.

1321
01:48:58.540 --> 01:49:16.769
Tad Eggleston: I just had trouble, because I'm like the fact that there's only a little bit of talk about the ethical issues here, and like no government oversight whatsoever, is just a really really bad sign for humanity.

1322
01:49:16.770 --> 01:49:18.969
Duane Murray: How are you watching severance.

1323
01:49:19.960 --> 01:49:20.380
Tad Eggleston: Haven't yet.

1324
01:49:20.630 --> 01:49:25.320
Duane Murray: Okay? Cause you might have. That's another show, I think, is wonderful. But

1325
01:49:25.720 --> 01:49:28.650
Duane Murray: you could say, has the same issues.

1326
01:49:28.650 --> 01:49:35.390
Tad Eggleston: Right, and I go back and forth on how much those things wind up bothering me. You know it depends on how well you do them

1327
01:49:35.985 --> 01:49:49.724
Tad Eggleston: and really it's just I, you know. I think I talked a little bit off the air about how I primarily do audio books. Now I guess it was early early on, because it was after we talked about Dwayne Moore rather than Dwayne Murray.

1328
01:49:50.920 --> 01:49:55.290
Tad Eggleston: I'm kind of the same way with movies. I just have trouble focusing on them long enough.

1329
01:49:55.680 --> 01:49:57.299
Tad Eggleston: They're great background, noise.

1330
01:49:57.460 --> 01:49:58.040
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1331
01:49:58.040 --> 01:50:00.950
Tad Eggleston: But I'm not good at stopping and watching a movie.

1332
01:50:00.950 --> 01:50:15.245
Duane Murray: I used to. I mean, I used to watch 4, 5 movies a week easily. And now I can't get through a movie. And part of that is, I'm an older. I'm an old. I'm I'm in my fifties, but have a 7 year old daughter.

1333
01:50:15.550 --> 01:50:16.070
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

1334
01:50:16.070 --> 01:50:17.660
Duane Murray: And so I'm exhausted all the time.

1335
01:50:17.660 --> 01:50:18.200
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

1336
01:50:18.200 --> 01:50:29.940
Duane Murray: And I can't. I need 3 nights to get through a 2 h move I it took me 3 nights to get through dune, so that's 1 where everyone's like. Oh, my God! Dune's amazing. I'm like I couldn't. I don't know. Maybe I couldn't get into it. I just it was

1337
01:50:29.940 --> 01:50:31.300
Duane Murray: a miniseries.

1338
01:50:31.910 --> 01:50:38.340
Duane Murray: It took me 3 nights, and it felt like it was 5 nights, so I don't know like it well, and you know I also.

1339
01:50:38.340 --> 01:50:41.400
Tad Eggleston: Read, you know, a couple 1,000 pages of comics a week.

1340
01:50:41.610 --> 01:50:42.290
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1341
01:50:43.550 --> 01:50:56.450
Tad Eggleston: Partially, because I just love to, and partially because I like to be able to talk to them, talk about them on this little podcast that doesn't have a ton of listeners. But we have a ton of ton of output and most of it's evergreen. So you know, I mean.

1342
01:50:56.450 --> 01:50:56.960
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1343
01:50:57.120 --> 01:51:01.260
Tad Eggleston: The most fun thing for me is when, like, I'll get my weekly

1344
01:51:02.700 --> 01:51:09.339
Tad Eggleston: podcast thing from from buzzsprout and it'll say you had 300 downloads this week. And I'm used to there being like

1345
01:51:09.650 --> 01:51:23.020
Tad Eggleston: 50 downloads in a week. Right? Something like that. And I'm like, Okay, so where in the world did we do? We have a new listener, because always it means that somebody discovered us and downloaded one of like 300 episodes.

1346
01:51:23.020 --> 01:51:24.290
Duane Murray: Right? Right? Yeah, exactly.

1347
01:51:24.290 --> 01:51:27.710
Tad Eggleston: You know, which is why I can tell you that I have. I have

1348
01:51:28.700 --> 01:51:35.849
Tad Eggleston: somebody who downloaded a lot of episodes in Germany and somebody in Brazil that downloaded a lot of episodes.

1349
01:51:35.850 --> 01:51:36.690
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1350
01:51:37.040 --> 01:51:42.110
Tad Eggleston: It's always fun. On top of getting to work with Sorkin, who also

1351
01:51:42.320 --> 01:51:50.555
Tad Eggleston: Essex County, which now is obvious, because, you know, we've talked about the Jeff Count Jeff Lemire that sort of thing. But

1352
01:51:51.490 --> 01:51:58.030
Tad Eggleston: you you were in, and I'm currently have students

1353
01:51:58.180 --> 01:52:03.780
Tad Eggleston: reading this book that I assist them with their reading and writing. Fahrenheit, 4, 51.

1354
01:52:03.950 --> 01:52:05.730
Duane Murray: Yes. Yeah.

1355
01:52:05.730 --> 01:52:13.580
Tad Eggleston: On Hbo, you had a part in, and another one of my

1356
01:52:13.810 --> 01:52:18.970
Tad Eggleston: favorite books, and I want to know if you know the comic connection to this book.

1357
01:52:19.950 --> 01:52:22.249
Tad Eggleston: You were in the time traveler's wife.

1358
01:52:22.540 --> 01:52:27.930
Duane Murray: I wasn't the time traveler's wife. I don't know the comic connection to that book.

1359
01:52:28.520 --> 01:52:31.120
Duane Murray: Did Audrey Neffinegger do a comic.

1360
01:52:32.080 --> 01:52:38.259
Tad Eggleston: Actually, Audrey Neffeniger has done a comic with her husband who's done a lot of comics.

1361
01:52:38.590 --> 01:52:39.520
Duane Murray: Who's your husband?

1362
01:52:40.250 --> 01:52:42.260
Tad Eggleston: She's married to Eddie Campbell.

1363
01:52:42.660 --> 01:52:43.979
Duane Murray: Is she really.

1364
01:52:43.980 --> 01:52:44.740
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

1365
01:52:45.230 --> 01:52:48.919
Duane Murray: I had no idea I hadn't, that I had no idea of.

1366
01:52:48.920 --> 01:52:52.050
Tad Eggleston: They're Chicagoans, so I see them at the at the.

1367
01:52:52.050 --> 01:52:52.600
Duane Murray: Underneath.

1368
01:52:52.600 --> 01:52:55.280
Tad Eggleston: At the small press. Chicago, Con. Every year.

1369
01:52:55.280 --> 01:52:59.406
Duane Murray: Because if I mean from hell is is another sort of

1370
01:52:59.750 --> 01:53:00.210
Tad Eggleston: Hell.

1371
01:53:00.210 --> 01:53:02.499
Duane Murray: At least once a year I go back to from house.

1372
01:53:02.500 --> 01:53:07.340
Tad Eggleston: Have, have you? Have you? Have you done his master edition of that.

1373
01:53:07.710 --> 01:53:09.239
Duane Murray: Is that the colored one.

1374
01:53:09.240 --> 01:53:09.930
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

1375
01:53:09.930 --> 01:53:12.880
Duane Murray: I I it's kind of like the Beatles white out.

1376
01:53:12.880 --> 01:53:13.320
Duane Murray: No, no, no!

1377
01:53:13.320 --> 01:53:16.259
Duane Murray: Would buy it, because I have 4 versions of it.

1378
01:53:16.260 --> 01:53:18.080
Tad Eggleston: You still should.

1379
01:53:18.080 --> 01:53:18.820
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1380
01:53:18.820 --> 01:53:24.840
Tad Eggleston: I mean, 1st of all, he I mean, it's it's different from like oh, somebody colorized it because.

1381
01:53:24.840 --> 01:53:25.330
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1382
01:53:25.330 --> 01:53:26.289
Tad Eggleston: He colored it.

1383
01:53:26.290 --> 01:53:27.010
Duane Murray: Right, right.

1384
01:53:27.010 --> 01:53:29.420
Tad Eggleston: Second he reinked most of it.

1385
01:53:30.310 --> 01:53:33.260
Tad Eggleston: least all of the parts that he wasn't happy with.

1386
01:53:33.260 --> 01:53:39.280
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, it is his definitive edition. Right? It is.

1387
01:53:40.650 --> 01:53:41.550
Tad Eggleston: Gorgeous.

1388
01:53:41.550 --> 01:53:42.489
Duane Murray: I bet it is.

1389
01:53:42.650 --> 01:53:44.729
Duane Murray: Yeah, I need I maybe. Why.

1390
01:53:44.730 --> 01:53:47.939
Tad Eggleston: Have them in single issues. I have them in.

1391
01:53:48.210 --> 01:53:50.810
Tad Eggleston: I have the hardcover signed by him.

1392
01:53:51.480 --> 01:53:56.439
Duane Murray: I don't know why that wasn't in a comp box from top shelf for me. Why don't they just send me.

1393
01:53:56.440 --> 01:53:59.210
Tad Eggleston: I don't know. I don't know. You're gonna have to give Star us a hard time.

1394
01:53:59.210 --> 01:54:00.870
Duane Murray: Yeah, I I should. I should.

1395
01:54:02.060 --> 01:54:04.610
Tad Eggleston: Or come down to Chicago for cake.

1396
01:54:04.610 --> 01:54:04.940
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1397
01:54:04.940 --> 01:54:07.119
Tad Eggleston: Eddie will be there. He always is.

1398
01:54:07.120 --> 01:54:10.190
Duane Murray: I love Chicago, Chicago, pizza I love.

1399
01:54:10.290 --> 01:54:12.639
Duane Murray: I love me! A deep dish. Chicago pizza.

1400
01:54:12.640 --> 01:54:24.510
Tad Eggleston: Well, I will take you out for deep dish, Chicago pizza, if you come down for cake, if you table, that's great. If you don't. We can just go. You're not allergic to cats, which means I could probably even put you up. There. You go.

1401
01:54:24.890 --> 01:54:26.959
Duane Murray: And now, I told myself.

1402
01:54:27.070 --> 01:54:45.400
Duane Murray: I want 3 books before I start doing shows, and and that's I'm cheating because I'm doing Toronto comic con next month. It's my 1st table I'm tabling as a creator for the 1st time, and people have asked me. I've always like I need 3 books. Once I have 3 books I'll feel better about that, and then I'll.

1403
01:54:45.400 --> 01:54:49.359
Tad Eggleston: Well, but here's what I'm going to say, and and

1404
01:54:49.560 --> 01:54:52.790
Tad Eggleston: like I'm not going to tell you not to do to Toronto. Comic con. But

1405
01:54:55.990 --> 01:54:57.800
Tad Eggleston: cake is more like tcaf.

1406
01:54:58.060 --> 01:55:00.819
Duane Murray: Oh, which is amazing. I mean, it's my favorite. Yeah.

1407
01:55:00.820 --> 01:55:13.420
Tad Eggleston: Right cake is the Chicago version of Tcaf, not the the version of of. And I would actually argue that anybody who's got one book should absolutely be looking for small shows.

1408
01:55:13.420 --> 01:55:14.190
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1409
01:55:14.630 --> 01:55:20.269
Tad Eggleston: That they can do. Because that's how you actually build an audience that's looking for you.

1410
01:55:20.270 --> 01:55:21.980
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, no, it's true.

1411
01:55:21.980 --> 01:55:25.210
Tad Eggleston: Other than just browsing the comic shop.

1412
01:55:25.210 --> 01:55:30.470
Duane Murray: Yeah, which is, yeah, which is what I know to Toronto. Comic con. I'm it was a.

1413
01:55:30.750 --> 01:55:35.539
Duane Murray: It was luck in the sense that it's happening the weekend before the 1st issue of power pals comes out.

1414
01:55:35.540 --> 01:55:36.130
Tad Eggleston: Right.

1415
01:55:36.130 --> 01:55:38.440
Duane Murray: So it's for me. It's just promo.

1416
01:55:38.440 --> 01:55:39.170
Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.

1417
01:55:39.170 --> 01:55:39.570
Duane Murray: Lined it.

1418
01:55:39.570 --> 01:55:40.389
Tad Eggleston: No, no.

1419
01:55:40.390 --> 01:55:42.810
Duane Murray: Like going postcards at people and.

1420
01:55:42.810 --> 01:55:53.449
Tad Eggleston: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And if you get lucky dark horse will give you a stack that you can sell. That's what I'm hoping it wouldn't. Wouldn't be the 1st time that that something's debuted

1421
01:55:54.359 --> 01:56:04.040
Tad Eggleston: last year at C. 2 E. 2, Jim Terry had a stack of death stalker number one

1422
01:56:04.230 --> 01:56:06.829
Tad Eggleston: right? Right, Tim Seeley at vault.

1423
01:56:06.930 --> 01:56:09.190
Tad Eggleston: I think a week before it came out.

1424
01:56:10.470 --> 01:56:11.440
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

1425
01:56:11.440 --> 01:56:13.710
Duane Murray: These as a preview.

1426
01:56:13.890 --> 01:56:15.010
Tad Eggleston: Oh, wow!

1427
01:56:15.010 --> 01:56:16.220
Duane Murray: Do you? I don't. I don't.

1428
01:56:16.220 --> 01:56:17.189
Tad Eggleston: Wizard, one hat.

1429
01:56:17.519 --> 01:56:25.430
Duane Murray: Made a wizard one half. So what this is? I sent it to like stores I sent it to stores as my preview.

1430
01:56:25.430 --> 01:56:33.470
Tad Eggleston: Have a store. It's it's the 22 panels. Tad buys everything for himself store. You can send me one.

1431
01:56:33.470 --> 01:56:40.289
Duane Murray: I've got, and that so he and then so what? This is actually the the reason I made it a wizard half is, this is actually

1432
01:56:40.913 --> 01:56:42.829
Duane Murray: the pitch. This is the.

1433
01:56:42.830 --> 01:56:43.469
Tad Eggleston: Oh, wow!

1434
01:56:43.470 --> 01:56:53.590
Duane Murray: To Dark horse. This was the cover, and the and we did 6 interior pages, and and Ahmed redrew all of this. So it's been all, and then I have. You know, the actual thing.

1435
01:56:53.590 --> 01:56:54.180
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

1436
01:56:54.180 --> 01:56:58.809
Duane Murray: Yeah. So I thought it'd be funny to make a wizard. Ha! Especially because this has, you know, power pals taught.

1437
01:56:58.810 --> 01:57:00.160
Duane Murray: I mean it, indeed.

1438
01:57:00.160 --> 01:57:03.080
Tad Eggleston: You had a lot of those those would sell like hotcakes at a.

1439
01:57:03.080 --> 01:57:23.490
Duane Murray: I only I print. I only printed a hundred. I might do another print run just for. But yeah. So I sent them out to stores in the Us. And some stores in Canada, and I'm hoping that people at least, just, you know, got a kick out of it. I thought but that yeah, the Wizard half was the what I love the most about doing it. The old school, Dark Horse.

1440
01:57:23.490 --> 01:57:24.800
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I saw that.

1441
01:57:24.800 --> 01:57:27.549
Duane Murray: So it's got that nineties that nineties feel to it.

1442
01:57:28.190 --> 01:57:36.070
Tad Eggleston: I love it. Yeah, actually, the so the old school Dark horse is part of how I got out of superhero comics, because

1443
01:57:36.260 --> 01:57:43.109
Tad Eggleston: one of, I mean, obviously not out out of superhero comics. I still read my share, but but

1444
01:57:45.270 --> 01:57:52.660
Tad Eggleston: My favorite comics of all time, when I was 17

1445
01:57:52.870 --> 01:57:55.119
Tad Eggleston: and still pretty high on my list

1446
01:57:55.440 --> 01:57:58.050
Tad Eggleston: was Frank Miller's run on Daredevil.

1447
01:57:58.450 --> 01:58:00.950
Duane Murray: Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. Born again. And.

1448
01:58:01.280 --> 01:58:05.249
Tad Eggleston: So I discovered 300 came out.

1449
01:58:05.440 --> 01:58:06.160
Duane Murray: Hmm.

1450
01:58:06.160 --> 01:58:08.619
Tad Eggleston: When I think I was, I think it was 97, or 98,

1451
01:58:09.010 --> 01:58:31.069
Tad Eggleston: and because 300 came out I then discovered Sin city. And then I started looking at more dark horse stuff, and I started looking at more vertigo stuff, and that was just the time where image was starting to do more writer driven rather than the art stuff you had J. Michael Straczynski's Joe's comics at the time, so like Midnight nation and.

1452
01:58:31.070 --> 01:58:32.180
Duane Murray: Rising, stars.

1453
01:58:32.180 --> 01:58:33.690
Tad Eggleston: Rising, stars, right.

1454
01:58:33.730 --> 01:58:34.940
Duane Murray: Yeah, I love that stuff.

1455
01:58:35.275 --> 01:58:45.690
Tad Eggleston: And that that's how I got back into comics for good. Yeah. I mean, I fell out a single issue comics when my son was born. Because you know, money.

1456
01:58:45.830 --> 01:58:46.870
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Yeah.

1457
01:58:47.255 --> 01:58:48.410
Tad Eggleston: And I got.

1458
01:58:48.450 --> 01:58:50.079
Duane Murray: Same space. Yeah.

1459
01:58:50.080 --> 01:58:51.860
Tad Eggleston: Well, space is still a problem.

1460
01:58:51.860 --> 01:58:52.440
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah.

1461
01:58:54.270 --> 01:58:58.670
Tad Eggleston: My my wife's way happier when I spend money on digital comics than physical.

1462
01:58:58.670 --> 01:59:17.180
Duane Murray: I know I I've gone more that way as well. I just can't. I just don't space, I don't. And yeah, so I've I'm down to like 2 long boxes, and then some just. I have a little short box beside my chair here, where I keep very special

1463
01:59:17.320 --> 01:59:21.889
Duane Murray: issues, and then all of the all of the furthest place record first.st

1464
01:59:21.890 --> 01:59:22.930
Tad Eggleston: I have those 2.

1465
01:59:22.930 --> 01:59:28.169
Duane Murray: All those. Yeah, I keep. This is my special. I got a little special box here.

1466
01:59:28.490 --> 01:59:34.119
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I haven't come anywhere near to too short box or to too long.

1467
01:59:35.110 --> 01:59:36.909
Tad Eggleston: I think I'm at like

1468
01:59:40.270 --> 01:59:49.880
Tad Eggleston: probably 50 short boxes, and probably another 10 or 20 long boxes on top of that.

1469
01:59:49.880 --> 01:59:52.899
Duane Murray: Is that all? Is that all single issues? Or is that trades as well.

1470
01:59:52.900 --> 01:59:54.700
Tad Eggleston: No, that's just a single issue.

1471
01:59:54.700 --> 01:59:55.040
Duane Murray: 11.

1472
01:59:55.040 --> 01:59:59.030
Tad Eggleston: Massive book. I have a massive bookshelf that I just built right.

1473
01:59:59.030 --> 02:00:01.499
Tad Eggleston: that I don't even know if it will actually hold all my trips.

1474
02:00:02.100 --> 02:00:03.300
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah,

1475
02:00:05.010 --> 02:00:07.989
Tad Eggleston: I'm still working on putting them up onto it.

1476
02:00:08.603 --> 02:00:11.110
Tad Eggleston: But where I was going with the acting.

1477
02:00:11.400 --> 02:00:15.100
Tad Eggleston: and there's a comic. There's a comic tie to it, too.

1478
02:00:15.270 --> 02:00:19.100
Tad Eggleston: I became, I mean, first, st

1479
02:00:19.210 --> 02:00:29.710
Tad Eggleston: I've become good friends with Christopher Cantwell through through comics. So so I've become more interested in making films, because half the time when he can't text, it's because he's busy

1480
02:00:31.560 --> 02:00:32.980
Tad Eggleston: filming stuff.

1481
02:00:33.345 --> 02:00:34.350
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.

1482
02:00:35.250 --> 02:00:44.840
Tad Eggleston: But also I'm friends with Bob Sikoriak, who who publishes through drawn and quarterly, came up with with came up through Raw

1483
02:00:45.040 --> 02:00:51.839
Tad Eggleston: was an editor for for Francoise Moulet and and Art Spiegelman.

1484
02:00:53.530 --> 02:00:58.910
Tad Eggleston: And he did the art for Tom Hanks.

1485
02:01:00.250 --> 02:01:04.599
Duane Murray: Tom Hanks novel is called The The Making of the next.

1486
02:01:04.790 --> 02:01:14.470
Tad Eggleston: Motion pictures or masterpiece, I think, and it's essentially a fictional behind the scenes. Look at like

1487
02:01:16.260 --> 02:01:21.280
Tad Eggleston: brilliant but sometimes troubled. Director.

1488
02:01:21.520 --> 02:01:33.779
Tad Eggleston: Okay, who who has to adapt a superhero movie, because that's the gig that he can get and working on it. And but really, more than that, it's like about the inner workings of

1489
02:01:34.250 --> 02:01:41.764
Tad Eggleston: making a movie. So you know, like the director's assistant and her assistant are probably the 2 biggest characters right?

1490
02:01:42.530 --> 02:01:47.390
Tad Eggleston: you know, followed closely by the director and the star of the movie. But but there's stuff about like

1491
02:01:47.720 --> 02:01:58.240
Tad Eggleston: hiring the extras, you know, and and bringing them in and having them on set so like as as a guy that has a decent imdb profile.

1492
02:01:58.360 --> 02:02:02.780
Tad Eggleston: but mostly really small parts. Talk to me, and I hope you don't

1493
02:02:03.130 --> 02:02:09.019
Tad Eggleston: take offense to me saying really small parts right? Talk to me about what it's like to

1494
02:02:10.690 --> 02:02:20.880
Tad Eggleston: like audition. And and and I mean, because you've got what? 73 roles over 30 years.

1495
02:02:21.020 --> 02:02:25.050
Duane Murray: Yeah, I would say 20. I graduated theater school in 98.

1496
02:02:25.240 --> 02:02:25.830
Duane Murray: So.

1497
02:02:26.070 --> 02:02:30.290
Tad Eggleston: Your your first, st your 1st credit

1498
02:02:30.790 --> 02:02:35.250
Tad Eggleston: and TV. I mean, you've got a dream. Life is a short from 96. Yeah.

1499
02:02:35.250 --> 02:02:36.040
Duane Murray: That's that's.

1500
02:02:36.040 --> 02:02:42.109
Tad Eggleston: And then and then real kids, real adventures which one episode in 99.

1501
02:02:42.110 --> 02:02:46.200
Duane Murray: And guess who the guess who the main actor was in that episode.

1502
02:02:46.590 --> 02:02:47.250
Tad Eggleston: Who.

1503
02:02:47.440 --> 02:02:48.419
Duane Murray: Aiden Christensen.

1504
02:02:48.910 --> 02:02:49.660
Duane Murray: Oh, wow!

1505
02:02:49.660 --> 02:02:59.450
Duane Murray: Yeah. As a young boy I played a fireman who and a kid had set fire to something or something like that, and this was year I don't really remember, but the main was Hayden Christensen.

1506
02:02:59.900 --> 02:03:00.560
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

1507
02:03:00.560 --> 02:03:02.920
Duane Murray: As a young Toronto kid. Yeah.

1508
02:03:03.580 --> 02:03:25.919
Tad Eggleston: Well, and that would have been or no. That's that's right, because he wasn't in Star Wars until the second movie. So it would have been right before that I was thinking of it as right after, because I was thinking of phantom menace. But he wasn't in phantom menace. He wasn't in anything until attack of the Clones. So, yeah, okay, so so yeah, talk to me about about how one

1509
02:03:27.260 --> 02:03:33.589
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I guess part of it is, Toronto is a favorite location for shooting.

1510
02:03:33.590 --> 02:03:35.000
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I mean, so.

1511
02:03:35.000 --> 02:03:36.750
Duane Murray: I grew up in.

1512
02:03:36.750 --> 02:03:41.949
Tad Eggleston: Other than the La Area. It's probably one of the better places to be a an actor.

1513
02:03:41.950 --> 02:03:49.510
Duane Murray: Well in Canada. It's it's basically either there or Vancouver, because a lot of a lot of the Sci-fi stuff shoots in Vancouver. But I always wanted

1514
02:03:49.910 --> 02:03:59.639
Duane Murray: I don't know. I was a bit more of a purist in Vancouver. Not that there's anything wrong with sci-fi, but there's also there's no stage work at all in Vancouver, so I came to Toronto

1515
02:03:59.930 --> 02:04:09.199
Duane Murray: with the intention of doing more. Stage is what I fell in love with. But, like comics, stage pays crap. And so

1516
02:04:09.430 --> 02:04:10.139
Duane Murray: oh, yeah.

1517
02:04:10.140 --> 02:04:19.670
Duane Murray: that the commitment required. So I I you know I'd get a job bartending while I was trying. And I'd have to leave those jobs because I if I got a theater contract it'd be weeks away.

1518
02:04:20.060 --> 02:04:20.600
Tad Eggleston: I have.

1519
02:04:20.690 --> 02:04:24.949
Duane Murray: Way would pay me to live for maybe 3 months, you know, and then.

1520
02:04:24.950 --> 02:04:35.720
Tad Eggleston: My my best friend has a Master's degree in Music Theater from the Boston Conservatory. There you go! She sang with the Boston Pops when she was in college.

1521
02:04:36.320 --> 02:04:49.460
Tad Eggleston: but she also became a high enough end waitress that she hasn't acted in more than 20 years because she hasn't hasn't been in a position where she was willing to quit the job that paid 3 grand a week for

1522
02:04:51.010 --> 02:04:51.550
Tad Eggleston: yeah.

1523
02:04:52.310 --> 02:05:05.170
Duane Murray: Yeah, no, for sure. And so I was getting, you know, auditions for small things. And then I actually like the small roles thing. I I don't take offense to like here in Canada. We basically do whatever we can

1524
02:05:05.300 --> 02:05:07.999
Duane Murray: to make money. And weirdly, I've I've

1525
02:05:08.360 --> 02:05:17.830
Duane Murray: played lead roles in award-winning miniseries, and then I've done 2 lines on the thing like I have. No, I'm more project based. If if I find the project.

1526
02:05:17.830 --> 02:05:18.829
Tad Eggleston: No, that's cool.

1527
02:05:18.830 --> 02:05:25.939
Duane Murray: That's what I'm that's what I'm into. And like, like Aaron Sorkin, it's it's 2 scenes. But it's in Sorkin. So like, oh, yeah.

1528
02:05:25.940 --> 02:05:29.419
Tad Eggleston: Oh, and you you were in 9 episodes of degrassi.

1529
02:05:29.420 --> 02:05:30.210
Duane Murray: Yeah, so that's another.

1530
02:05:30.210 --> 02:05:31.660
Tad Eggleston: Like Smith would love you.

1531
02:05:31.660 --> 02:05:45.270
Duane Murray: There you go. I did. Yeah, I did 3 seasons of the grassy where I played a parent to to 2 of the main kids. I did a show called What's Up Warthogs, where I was the the only adult kind of like a saved by the bell kind of show. But I was the.

1532
02:05:45.270 --> 02:05:45.780
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

1533
02:05:45.780 --> 02:05:51.909
Duane Murray: That for 2 seasons. And then I've done yeah little bits here and there, and big movies. And

1534
02:05:52.190 --> 02:06:00.229
Duane Murray: they're they. They all are audition wise. They're kind of all the same. The big thing that I'll say that's changed with that is, Covid happened.

1535
02:06:00.870 --> 02:06:01.300
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

1536
02:06:01.300 --> 02:06:15.430
Duane Murray: And so now auditions aren't in person. They're all you tape them on your phone. You send them in and you wait. I mean, you don't even wait anymore, because I just it's like sending them off into the ether. I will say what I miss is that that interaction?

1537
02:06:15.450 --> 02:06:32.320
Duane Murray: Not only like, not only with directors and with casting directors in a room where they can redirect you, but also in the waiting room with fellow actors. I miss that camaraderie and and the bitching. You know, the bitching about the industry, and how there's not enough work for anyone and all that stuff.

1538
02:06:32.330 --> 02:06:50.900
Duane Murray: So that's the biggest change. And and I've actually stepped away from acting. Not that I don't act, I still do. It's still what I do to to make an okay living and pay for the roof over my head, but I don't pursue it the way I used to. Now my pursuit is comics and and writing for comics, and that's where I.

1539
02:06:50.900 --> 02:06:55.709
Tad Eggleston: Mean you have an upcoming TV movie as Katie's dad, at least.

1540
02:06:55.710 --> 02:06:56.120
Duane Murray: And.

1541
02:06:56.120 --> 02:06:57.580
Tad Eggleston: To Imdb.

1542
02:06:57.580 --> 02:07:01.440
Duane Murray: Well, and this is a cute thing, too, because Katie is my real daughter.

1543
02:07:01.680 --> 02:07:02.790
Tad Eggleston: Oh, wow!

1544
02:07:02.790 --> 02:07:03.410
Duane Murray: Katie's.

1545
02:07:03.410 --> 02:07:04.989
Tad Eggleston: So you get paid twice.

1546
02:07:04.990 --> 02:07:10.070
Duane Murray: Well, yeah. Well, then, me, I get paid and her education money. She gets paid.

1547
02:07:10.070 --> 02:07:14.300
Tad Eggleston: Oh, wait a minute. You're gonna be a good parent of a.

1548
02:07:14.300 --> 02:07:38.430
Duane Murray: Yes, we've been. We have an investment for her education. Yeah. So that was an opportunity where I knew the producer. And she said, she's like, I know it's just a small part, but it's local. You won't have to leave. Do you want to do this? And then I read it, and I said, Oh, it says, here I have a daughter. My my daughter is 7 years old, and she's and so they had her audition, and she got to play my daughter. So it was really fun.

1549
02:07:38.430 --> 02:07:40.389
Duane Murray: That's that sounds fun. It was awesome

1550
02:07:40.390 --> 02:07:58.049
Duane Murray: that what acting has brought me are experiences that I'll always remember and always have with me. And it's brought me around the world. And yeah, it's it's amazing. And I love acting. I just don't have the same drive to do it that I did in my twenties. You know

1551
02:07:58.330 --> 02:08:03.829
Duane Murray: I do what I audition, and I audition for cool things, and more often than not. I don't get it, and

1552
02:08:04.360 --> 02:08:06.380
Duane Murray: I just keep plugging away.

1553
02:08:06.620 --> 02:08:09.520
Tad Eggleston: I mean comics. You get to tell your own stories, too.

1554
02:08:09.660 --> 02:08:21.439
Duane Murray: Well, that's yeah, exactly. And and in an easier way than it was to do in film. And in a way that you can make it happen. If no publisher wants to publish it.

1555
02:08:21.540 --> 02:08:24.179
Duane Murray: you can set up a Kickstarter.

1556
02:08:24.490 --> 02:08:28.429
Duane Murray: and maybe you'll get lucky, and and you can print the damn thing and.

1557
02:08:28.430 --> 02:08:30.759
Tad Eggleston: And you don't have health insurance to worry about.

1558
02:08:30.760 --> 02:08:31.290
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1559
02:08:31.290 --> 02:08:32.790
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I mean, like

1560
02:08:33.720 --> 02:08:43.420
Tad Eggleston: some of my my comics friends who are also film friends, you know. I mean, it's like their their health insurance is through the writers. Guild, yeah.

1561
02:08:44.590 --> 02:08:45.420
Tad Eggleston: something.

1562
02:08:45.420 --> 02:08:50.890
Duane Murray: Yeah. So beyond, beyond our basic Canadian healthcare, I have extended healthcare through the Actors Union, because I've been in.

1563
02:08:50.890 --> 02:08:51.540
Tad Eggleston: Right.

1564
02:08:51.700 --> 02:08:59.182
Duane Murray: 25 years I've been with the the actors union. So yeah, there's that, too. I just had a thousand dollars worth of dental work done. So this.

1565
02:08:59.450 --> 02:09:05.010
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, which you know. Unfortunately, there's there's no comic union.

1566
02:09:05.410 --> 02:09:20.989
Duane Murray: No, no. And and yeah, it it's again. I'm not I. I'm not a part of the not that I'd love someday to be offered it. But I'm not a part of the big 2 machine and the big 2 world. I don't get asked to do any of that stuff, and maybe I will. I don't know.

1567
02:09:20.990 --> 02:09:22.799
Tad Eggleston: Even there, there's no, there's no.

1568
02:09:22.800 --> 02:09:23.350
Duane Murray: No, exactly.

1569
02:09:23.350 --> 02:09:32.510
Tad Eggleston: Most most of that's freelance. I mean, you got to be like a superstar before they're offering you like a contract. That's a paycheck rather than a page rate.

1570
02:09:32.510 --> 02:09:33.730
Duane Murray: Right, right, yeah.

1571
02:09:34.480 --> 02:09:35.420
Tad Eggleston: You know.

1572
02:09:35.420 --> 02:09:35.860
Duane Murray: Yeah.

1573
02:09:36.247 --> 02:09:49.809
Tad Eggleston: And it generally requires some level of exclusivity. Yes, you know which can be a hit or miss thing. I mean, it's a weird industry as really all arts are. I mean, I think

1574
02:09:51.090 --> 02:10:02.269
Tad Eggleston: you know my my autistic brain and my my math problem. Solving brain is always thinking about like the fact that so many artistic people

1575
02:10:02.990 --> 02:10:29.270
Tad Eggleston: just don't have the basic math business skills and therefore are absolute marks for the people that don't know good art from from nothing, but they know that they can get all art cheap, and then some of it is good, and then they, and then they manage to convince you that that's the way it's supposed to be, because I lost money on all of these things. And it's only because of this one. And it's like, Yeah, but you know, you shouldn't have bought half of those.

1576
02:10:29.860 --> 02:10:50.579
Duane Murray: And that's what I mean. That's how I developed some of my relationships with some of the comic book, because in that time, like I said, I worked also as a development producer. And so these people who were doing indie comics and weren't big enough as they are now to have lawyers, I'd look at all their option agreements. And I'd I'd say so. You know, you're basically giving this away

1577
02:10:50.580 --> 02:10:52.279
Duane Murray: right right like, look at this.

1578
02:10:52.280 --> 02:11:07.980
Duane Murray: So I was doing as a favor. I was doing that for a lot of those creators, those early top creators, just to sort of basically tell them to look out, because that's I'm lucky because I was a producer. I have that business acumen in for the arts, and I understand it.

1579
02:11:08.411 --> 02:11:25.579
Duane Murray: With publishers. They're asking me about contracts to my lawyers. I'm like, no, no, I handle all my contracts. I can do all that stuff. Yeah. So I do feel very, because you're right. There are artists who would just give their stuff away because they just that's who they are. That's not what they're in it. They're in it to

1580
02:11:25.870 --> 02:11:27.159
Duane Murray: to tell their stories and.

1581
02:11:27.160 --> 02:11:27.510
Tad Eggleston: They just

1582
02:11:28.020 --> 02:11:33.760
Tad Eggleston: or and there's certainly a lot of artists that like don't realize that they're giving their stuff away.

1583
02:11:33.760 --> 02:11:35.190
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1584
02:11:36.550 --> 02:11:54.189
Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean Bendis. A whole chapter of Bendis's book is written by his wife, and it's about the business side of comics, and he's he's the 1st one to tell you that if it weren't for his wife it wouldn't be where he is right now. Yeah. And that's such a common story in the industry, you know.

1585
02:11:54.190 --> 02:11:54.690
Duane Murray: Sure.

1586
02:11:55.095 --> 02:12:16.539
Tad Eggleston: I mean, for that matter. You know, Dennis Kitchen became a publisher because he was the one guy on the Indie comic, you know on the alternative comic scene that actually like had a head for money so like he didn't lose money. He saw that other people were struggling. He's like, well, I can help out with that. And the next thing he knew he was more of a publisher than an artist, because.

1587
02:12:16.540 --> 02:12:17.810
Duane Murray: Yeah, and it's not.

1588
02:12:17.810 --> 02:12:20.280
Tad Eggleston: Because none of the other guys knew how to do it.

1589
02:12:20.480 --> 02:12:32.620
Duane Murray: And it's it's, you know, it's what it's understanding. It's a business, even though. And and this is something Rosenberg, so good at, too, is like I. His ability to market his stuff is

1590
02:12:33.270 --> 02:12:43.740
Duane Murray: beyond what anyone else does like. He's incredible at it. And you know he ran the record label so he he gets it, and it's so clear that he gets it because he's so damn good at it.

1591
02:12:44.520 --> 02:12:48.190
Duane Murray: And I. I looked at what he does even on that side of it and go, okay, okay? Then.

1592
02:12:48.190 --> 02:12:50.149
Tad Eggleston: And marketing comics is hard.

1593
02:12:50.150 --> 02:12:54.370
Duane Murray: Very hard, but again he really gets how to. I mean people.

1594
02:12:54.370 --> 02:12:58.280
Tad Eggleston: There are people who get how to market their own comics, but like

1595
02:12:58.830 --> 02:13:06.650
Tad Eggleston: I laugh so hard at what some of the things that the marketing. People at the Big 2 think are good ideas. I'm like.

1596
02:13:06.650 --> 02:13:10.970
Duane Murray: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

1597
02:13:11.130 --> 02:13:17.399
Tad Eggleston: So yeah, well, I am gonna let you go, because I said I was gonna let you go like almost an hour ago, and and.

1598
02:13:17.400 --> 02:13:17.800
Duane Murray: Chatty.

1599
02:13:17.800 --> 02:13:36.669
Tad Eggleston: Babbled in a fun way, and I'm certain I'll have you back, because this is, I already know that this is a book that I want the spoiler filled conversation so like I'll be calling you in between, like the the issues being done and the the trade paperback to say, Hey, Duane. Let's let's get into it.

1600
02:13:37.181 --> 02:13:49.828
Tad Eggleston: It was a blast. You're welcome back anytime. Stick around for a minute or 2 after we're done, and we'll chat. But let me take us out, and it was a pleasure, and is it's

1601
02:13:51.510 --> 02:13:55.590
Tad Eggleston: who are the power pals in stores on March 19.th

1602
02:13:55.980 --> 02:13:59.009
Tad Eggleston: Better place is already available from top

1603
02:13:59.210 --> 02:14:13.969
Tad Eggleston: shelf. Both are absolutely amazing. You should go read them, keep keep an eye out for Duane Moore, Dwayne Murray's writing, and then go, read the Duane Moore books from Mary Mcmurtry. They're very good, also great.

1604
02:14:14.560 --> 02:14:15.225
Tad Eggleston: And

1605
02:14:16.280 --> 02:14:23.419
Tad Eggleston: for 22 panels. This has been Duane Murray, and we will see you after the next page.