Bonus Episode: With Great Power #214...22 Panels with Stephan Franck

Tad has a great chat with Stephan Franck

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Transcript

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Tad Eggleston: Good afternoon, everybody. I guess it's still morning out in in La area. My my guest today is Stefan Frank, returning.

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Tad Eggleston: Fresh off of of your?

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Tad Eggleston: What if season was it? 3, 2.

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stephanfranck: 3, 3.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, you you directed. It looked like.

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stephanfranck: It's 5 in the.

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Tad Eggleston: Roughly, half the season.

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stephanfranck: It's a little bit more, because there's 8 episodes in the season. So I did 5.

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stephanfranck: Okay.

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stephanfranck: And I did the 1st one of the second season, too.

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Tad Eggleston: So I'm I'm a comics. Geek. So we're going to get into the comic stuff in a minute. But I did watch, or at least kind of watch most of the what if I have trouble just watching? I have a tendency to watch and read comics at the same time. But I did come up with questions, the 1st of which, and I think we we.

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Tad Eggleston: We dug into this a little bit last time, but it was more buried in the the podcast

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Tad Eggleston: what does it? What does director mean? For an animated feature.

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stephanfranck: It's the it's the same thing as it means for live action. One, you know. It's literally the same thing that the only difference is that

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Tad Eggleston: Well, you're not yelling action and cut.

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stephanfranck: No.

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Tad Eggleston: Which I think is what most people think of live action.

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stephanfranck: Actors I mean.

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Tad Eggleston: There's huge, more things they do. But what people think is the guy that goes action cut.

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stephanfranck: Yeah. Okay. So so the right thing to to is like your your

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stephanfranck: through, like, the you know, any movie, any any show. You know there's dozens, if not hundreds, of people working on it, you know, and no, and none of the these people are there from the very beginning to the very end. So people come in. So it's like a party that people come in and out, and you're the host, and you have to make sure that this remains the same party from beginning to end.

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Tad Eggleston: Joseph.

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stephanfranck: You know. So it is constantly, constantly talking to people to to create this virtual world around them, where people are constantly situated and everybody's pulling in the same direction and stuff like that, and also giving a sense

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stephanfranck: to people, a sense of safety, a sense of trust. So they feel like they can take chances and try to do things. And you have their back. You're not gonna lead them into like a stupid situation that you know, or like they're, you know, or wrong choice, or something like that. So it's so this is more like the physical philosophical answer. But at the core, that's what it is. It's like

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stephanfranck: you come in on a project, whether it's a project you initiated from the start, or it's a project that studio institutionally has decided. Okay, we're doing this. And we think it's going to be about this. And then you take it on. And you know creatively the 1st thing for me. My way into anything like that is, I'm always like, okay.

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stephanfranck: we're playing with these toys. Okay, cool.

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stephanfranck: Why?

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stephanfranck: Why do we care? You know what I mean, like, what? What is the human story at the end of this?

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stephanfranck: That you know that means something to me. And you know they say like it's a you know. It's a David Mamet quotes that, you know. I know he's become kind of an odd character, but you know.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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stephanfranck: David Mahmet, you know, and he's I, he said in one of his books, that the the That movies

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stephanfranck: are like the the merging of 2 timeless traditions, the theater and the circus.

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stephanfranck: So.

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Tad Eggleston: I like it.

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stephanfranck: So. So my my way in is always like, All right.

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stephanfranck: What is the circus in here that is, mind blowing? And we're going to do things we've never seen before or not like that. And that's exciting. And what's the theater? What's the human story, you know? If this was just 2 or 3 people talking in the black box theater. Would I care about what they're saying and what you know what I mean? And so so it's just all. So once you find your way into

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stephanfranck: into the story that way through, for me, at least through these 2 angles. You know. Then that becomes like everything springs from there. You know that. Oh, okay. Now I know what I'm doing here, you know. And then it becomes this process of so certain things are more, you know. You'll be more hands-on than others like, for instance, every director comes from.

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stephanfranck: I mean, very few people just

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stephanfranck: come out of the shoot as a director, you know. Most like have learned your trades through your different like. For me, you know. I started as an animator, and then a storyboard, and then writing script and directing. You know what I mean. So it's just like so so storyboarding, for instance, is one of my things that

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stephanfranck: I do. You know myself with this hand? Right? So so if I'm directing something, I'm going to want to storyboard a lot on it, because that's my

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stephanfranck: story. Language that's the most. That's the one where there's no set where I don't need to talk to anyone. I can just do exactly thinking right. So so for me, when I'm directing I storyboard a lot. It could be completely different from somebody else. You know, there's excellent directors who come from a writing background, and they don't do a single drawing. So to them it's more about the language, and they'll communicate

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stephanfranck: for language.

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Tad Eggleston: Feel like I was reading something recently about somebody who

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Tad Eggleston: was Steven Spielberg's preferred storyboard artist because

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Tad Eggleston: he needs both. He comes from the writing background. But he needs the visuals. So when he found out that he had, like a really good

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Tad Eggleston: rapport with this guy, it's like, Okay, you need to. I'm going to tell you what needs to go there.

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stephanfranck: That's right. Well, you know, like there's a

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Tad Eggleston: And and that well, it made me think so. Every Steven Spielberg movie 1st has a comic book.

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stephanfranck: That's right, you know. Storyboard. Okay? So now I'm gonna have a little tangent. And just because people don't know this like the secret weapon in the industry, whether it's all the big movies or whether it's feature, animation.

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stephanfranck: or animation of any kind is story artists.

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stephanfranck: And that's a job that people don't necessarily understand, especially in feature, animation. What when you see, you know, like, you watch a Disney movie or whatever animated movie. And you see, you know, story or story artist, what that means. It's a position that

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stephanfranck: is the mix between you're like a storyboard person. You're gonna be drawing, drawing, drawing, drawing, drawing.

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Tad Eggleston: Bye.

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stephanfranck: But you're also a staff writer.

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stephanfranck: right? Meaning that you're also contributing. It could be any at on any scale of the story could be participating in the shaping. The overall story.

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Tad Eggleston: Fought for at Marvel all those years back, rather than being called the Penciller. He was the co-plotter.

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stephanfranck: I'm glad you said that cause that's very, very

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stephanfranck: similar to what they used to call the marvel method. You know.

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stephanfranck: They're like you know.

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stephanfranck: Stanley would say, it's about this, and this kind of happens. And this kind of happens. And Kirby would take it and kind of tell the whole story visually, and then I would go back to to Stan, to to just add some dialogue, flourishes, and bridge. You know things that maybe needed bridging, or whatever you know. And so.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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stephanfranck: Well, so so you know, the concept of writing

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stephanfranck: is in the quote unquote, I'm going to say the professional arts, you know, from music to the writing doesn't necessarily mean typing.

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stephanfranck: Writing means creating story, you know. And so

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stephanfranck: so so that's what story artists do. And and you know, and the some of the

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stephanfranck: biggest movie sequences like, for instance, in Star Wars, or, you know, Giant, you know things that you know didn't start out on the page. They started with just an illustration

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stephanfranck: of, for instance, those those giant like 2 legged thing, you know, in the Empire strikes that started from one painting. I saw the painting, you know.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, I've seen that painting. It's it's amazing.

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stephanfranck: I I'm.

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Tad Eggleston: What it was. Macquarie. Christopher Mccoy was a did a lot of the.

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stephanfranck: So.

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Tad Eggleston: Design art for for Lucas during Star Wars. I feel like that's the right name.

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stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so. But you know, so

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stephanfranck: from visual ideas. Because again, is so that that speaks to the circus that doesn't speak to the theater. But you need both in the movie. And there's as much circus based story in the movie as there is theater based story that makes sense.

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Tad Eggleston: I think so. Well, no, maybe that's the wrong one. Maybe that's the wrong, Macquarie, because if he was born in 68 he wasn't working on Star Wars.

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stephanfranck: If he was born and went here.

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Tad Eggleston: 1968.

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Tad Eggleston: There are 2 Hollywood Macquaries, and I get them.

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Tad Eggleston: It's Ralph Mcquarrie. Ralph Mcquarrie is the one that did all of the so so anybody who's listening before, not Christopher. He did other stuff working with a director, or at least some of his stuff was working with a director that we don't like to talk about a lot anymore. So Ralph Mcquarrie is the guy to look up. He has a Wikipedia entry.

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Tad Eggleston: There you go. I should know this, but I guess I'm you know. I mean.

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stephanfranck: Crazy, but

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Tad Eggleston: When when you're a nerd and you start to know lots of things, they blend sometimes.

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stephanfranck: So anyway.

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Tad Eggleston: Sorry I didn't mean to blow your train of thought.

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stephanfranck: No, not at all. No. So anyway. So this is just to yeah, it's really interesting for people to know that. What's you know what story artists are in animation is a very

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stephanfranck: I mean, I'm I'm realizing that

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stephanfranck: a lot of the job descriptions and the positions the things people do in emission are very mysterious to people. It's true because it's, you know.

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stephanfranck: So story artist is that? And then going back to the directing.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean you mean Walt Disney didn't draw every cell.

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stephanfranck: No, yes, I mean, people people still think that.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, how long did it take for people to know who Carl Barks was.

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stephanfranck: Yes, you will.

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Tad Eggleston: Because he was supposed to have drawn every comic too.

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stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was this. The Mister.

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Tad Eggleston: I have to. I have to slip in Carl barks anytime. I can.

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stephanfranck: We love cars.

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Tad Eggleston: Barks.

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stephanfranck: As you can see. You know. I don't know if you saw I did this during Covid. I did this

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stephanfranck: one issue kind of crazy little comic called Romance in the age of the Space God.

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stephanfranck: Oh, shit you have it! There you go! So you understand my love for.

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Tad Eggleston: We were gonna get to this.

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stephanfranck: Okay, I'm alright. Okay.

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Tad Eggleston: I told you I was making an order from your site as soon as as soon as we booked our time.

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stephanfranck: Oh, that's awesome.

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stephanfranck: So yeah, when you mentioned call bars, I was like, Oh, you're speaking my language there, you know.

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Tad Eggleston: I love Carl parks. So another like just technical question, because again.

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Tad Eggleston: we focus on comics. But I know a ton of people that are is, into comics

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Tad Eggleston: or into comics, but also huge into animation, huge into anime, that sort of thing. But as I was watching

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Tad Eggleston: the what if

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Tad Eggleston: I found myself thinking in a more technical way, just because I do. Sometimes it's my autistic brain going. Okay, how does this work? And I'm guessing

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Tad Eggleston: that it's not. You give somebody. Okay, I need you to make these 5 seconds worth of film. It feels more like you'd have

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Tad Eggleston: somebody that would be the equivalent of a set designer. Okay, draw the background or the 3D model that we're working in, and somebody else that would be doing the characters. So how.

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stephanfranck: Yeah. So I don't even know quite the right questions to ask. So break down.

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stephanfranck: We understand.

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Tad Eggleston: How do our duties.

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stephanfranck: So it works the exact same way as a live action movie, meaning that.

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stephanfranck: There you have departments, right? So. And every department is a head of department, you know. For instance, you have the production designer who's

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stephanfranck: supervises a whole team of art directors and artists. You know, the job is to

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stephanfranck: to design the you know, the to design everything that you see on screen, like, for instance. you know, let's say, like 1st episode of of second season. Right? Nebula, right? We we want to give her a car. Right? So the the I'm gonna have a meeting with the art department and say, Hey, so for this, because, you know, at that point we're all in the same

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stephanfranck: headspace that we're trying to do something that's between like that's like a seventies kind of noir, you know. Cop show, you know. Slash blade runner, kind of thing, right? So I'll say, Hey, you know, we we need a car. It's going to be like for her, like a, you know. And so she it's flying around. But it still needs to feel like a car. I just want your visceral takeaway from it to be. It's a car. It's a muscle car from the seventies, right? So

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stephanfranck: you know. Maybe from the script they'll have already created a bunch of designs. Some of them look more futuristic. Some of them look more like spaceships. Some of them looks like literally like a flying car, right? And then

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stephanfranck: we're gonna look at those together. And I said, No, the so get rid of all the starships, because we're trying to do like a cop muscle car of the, you know, seventies. But translated into this, this is too literal. This is too far away. This is the space that we need to be in right, because this feels just enough like a muscle car. That's what I'm feeling when I'm seeing it. I feel like, even like in the road warriors, which is the vibe I want, you know.

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stephanfranck: Yet I believe that it can fly doesn't feel goofy right? So

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stephanfranck: so this is the direction. So then we're gonna break into all right. Well, what do you want the controls to look like, you know, like there's like your control panel that you know when she's talking to. There's a hologram of of Nova Prime. There's like graphics on the thing. And then we're gonna go like, okay.

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stephanfranck: how do we want those graphics to be? Do we want those graphics to feel like, you know? Yes, it's digital stuff. But is it digital stuff that feels like it's from like the seventies or eighties, like something from alien, for instance. And yes, that's what we want. You know, we don't want something that feels like it's super futuristic

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stephanfranck: minority report, for instance, right? So it's just like all those. Micro. Everything you see on screen has a million decisions behind them and behind every decision you have a department that just designs all that stuff. So where you part ways with live action

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stephanfranck: is that in live action, then, once they've designed it, it's going to go straight to the, you know, if it needs to be a practical. You know element. You know that people are actually going to be sitting in is going to go to builders who are going to build that at scale in the real world, whereas, you know, forest animation is going to go to a team of modelers who are just going to build that

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stephanfranck: as a Cg model that now can be shot and used in in the episode. Right? So all that stuff is exactly the same. It's just that you don't build it.

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stephanfranck: Practically at the end. That's the only difference. Then.

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stephanfranck: after that, you know, the whole writing process is the same. The whole storyboarding process is the same. What we do is we

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stephanfranck: we create story reels, which is basically we

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stephanfranck: time all the boards. And we we do the, you know, the the, you know.

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stephanfranck: Yeah, we did. We're doing the vocal performances, you know, not yet with the final actors, but already with some good actors. And so we call that the scratch dialogue. So we put the episode together as an animatic. And that's the most important thing, because every intention is in there, like the big acting intentions are in there, because the storyboards are pretty detailed, not necessarily in the cleanliness of the drawings, but in the the play, by play of the intentions

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stephanfranck: and and we already have.

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stephanfranck: you know, worked through and try different approaches on the acting. So you're working with actors, you know the same way that you would in live action, except that they're in the booth. You're in the booth, you know, so it's not. There's no physical blocking. All that stuff's been done in that. But but you're saying it's it's the same process is just that at the end of the day it's executed, instead of being executed physically by people and objects. It's

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stephanfranck: executed by virtually by animators and and the animators are actors, too. At the end of the day the when you look at a performance in an animated

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stephanfranck: film or series.

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stephanfranck: it's an acting performance that is delivered, except instead of just being done by the actor. It's a combination of the the vocal talent of the actor and the visual performance of an animator.

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stephanfranck: And so, and being an animator result, it's a very challenging job, because you know.

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stephanfranck: you have to. You have the acting. You need to have the acting skills to create a credible performance.

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stephanfranck: But at the same time you also need to have the technical skills to from scratch create, you know. Does your character look, you know, is the pose looking awkward or

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stephanfranck: right?

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stephanfranck: Right? So just even existing. Are you.

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Tad Eggleston: That that reminds me of of talking with Elsa Chardier about because she oh, yeah, as her characters act

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Tad Eggleston: at a level that so few other artists. Do you know the body language, the facial expressions whatnot. And she talked about how her acting background

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Tad Eggleston: contributed to that. You know the the things that she did, to learn how to.

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stephanfranck: That's amazing.

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stephanfranck: Yeah. It shows it shows in the work.

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Tad Eggleston: It does, it does and all of this is making, you know I

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Tad Eggleston: like every medium that's a team medium in in my life I've gone through like

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Tad Eggleston: phases of like who I pay attention to right

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Tad Eggleston: when you're young. It's the actor in the movie. Oh, I love Harrison Ford. I'm going to see all Harrison Ford movies. And then you start realizing that that's not as reliable as directors. And eventually I realized, at least for me. Even directors aren't as reliable as writers when it comes to live. Action films. You know, I can pick out the live action films I like

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Tad Eggleston: best

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Tad Eggleston: based on the writer. Now, if I if I get a writer, director, actor, combo, where I like them all, then it's like, Oh, money in the bank!

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stephanfranck: Like, who, who are your favorite can do no wrong writers for you in movies.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, I mean I'm a sucker for Aaron Sorkin.

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stephanfranck: Oh, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Have been.

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stephanfranck: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: I like the Goldman brothers, both of them. Even though. What? What's

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Tad Eggleston: William? Everybody knows, though, though everybody forgets that William Goldman did both Princess Bride and

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Tad Eggleston: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, and if that doesn't like show a ridiculous.

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stephanfranck: Range.

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Tad Eggleston: Ability to to do lots of different writing right there.

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stephanfranck: Sure.

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Tad Eggleston: What's his? I'm trying to remember his brother's name right now, and I did the dumb thing and looked up. William Goldman, rather than looking up.

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Tad Eggleston: lion in winter

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Tad Eggleston: is the most famous movie, his brother wrote.

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Tad Eggleston: course, the computer is going to move slow right now.

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Tad Eggleston: Only move slow when you want it to move fast.

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Tad Eggleston: James Goldman. But but James Goldman also wrote, in my opinion, incredibly underrated movie called Robin and Marion.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.

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stephanfranck: Yes, yes, yes.

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Tad Eggleston: Right. I want to say, is it Stephen Moy?

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Tad Eggleston: I think, only has 2 movies.

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Tad Eggleston: but they're 2 of my favorites, and I'm like you need to write more or no, I'm sorry, Alan Moyle.

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Tad Eggleston: At least. Last I checked the only 2 movies he had credits on.

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stephanfranck: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: For writing.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, he's up to 12 for for

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Tad Eggleston: okay. He's got a few more.

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Tad Eggleston: but no see, mostly really small stuff. But he did write pump up the volume, and

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Tad Eggleston: I guess maybe he only directed Empire records.

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Tad Eggleston: you know. So so it's like, you see, these guys, it's like, and it's like, it's really annoying when it's the people that like

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Tad Eggleston: I adore their work. And I'm in a minority, and they don't, or at least not a big money making minority, and and God knows what he's doing now, because he doesn't seem to be the at the front of movie making.

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stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah, it's also would be really interesting to see is also the stuff that they rewrote and credited because.

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Tad Eggleston: No, no, that's that's always the question. I mean, when when Carrie Fisher died and we started hearing

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Tad Eggleston: all of the films that she was a script. Doctor on, I'm like, Oh, my God!

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stephanfranck: Yes, yes.

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Tad Eggleston: For a while. I was pretty good at picking out movies. That Quentin Tarantino was a script doctor on.

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stephanfranck: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: But I haven't been a serious movie guy in like 20 years.

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Tad Eggleston: because I drifted from that. But like in the time, that the comics podcast has happened. You know, I've become more appreciative of artists and colorists, and even letterers. One day Hasan otsman. El. How will be the 1st letterer that like manages to letter a comic that you look at everything else and go,

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Tad Eggleston: But the lettering's so awesome that it's a classic.

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stephanfranck: I mean to me, lettering is so important. It's it's like lettering is to to a comic. What sound is to a movie at the end of it.

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Tad Eggleston: Well. And and I think I think that's

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Tad Eggleston: if I'm comparing to movies. And I think it's why we tend to be.

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Tad Eggleston: We tend to be attracted to actors when we're youngest, because that's who we see and and like.

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Tad Eggleston: It's not the order in which they're important to making the thing good. It's the order in which they have the power to make it terrible.

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stephanfranck: Does that make sense.

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Tad Eggleston: Sense.

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stephanfranck: Good, really bad acting can take a.

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Tad Eggleston: A movie that should be good. Yeah, and kill it.

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stephanfranck: Well, I give more credit to that, that I see more than that acting just by the the fact that I am myself a terrible terrible actor. So so I know I I to me.

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Tad Eggleston: Which is why you don't act in movies.

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stephanfranck: Say? What.

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Tad Eggleston: Which is why you don't act in movies.

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stephanfranck: That's right. Well, trust me, I've had misadventures. No, but

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stephanfranck: to be that, that's the beauty of the process.

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stephanfranck: as every piece is additive, you know. whenever

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stephanfranck: whenever you go to, and it's the same with comics, and it's the same like, you know

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stephanfranck: what's really funny when when you

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stephanfranck: like, for instance, like, let's say, in the process of making an episode of what, if or anything right, you, you write it.

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stephanfranck: and then you feel like that's it. That's exactly it. That's perfect. Everything's perfect because you, of course you shoot, for to make it as good as you can you go? All right? That's right. And then you start boarding it. And then you Whoa! It's like doors open and you realize different things need to happen, or different, or things need to happen differently, and and then design

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stephanfranck: comes in and through your work with them, and the magic of what they do. You know, new ideas present themselves or ways to present certain ideas that you've never in ways you've never seen before present themselves, and you know, and and every time like a new dimension. And all the way, you know, obviously to acting, you know, when the actors take hold of the you know, I mean like with what if we had the the good fortune of work to working with the

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stephanfranck: the actors from the from the movies? You know the you know. Most of them are

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stephanfranck: doing their role. So you know certain people, you know, they walk into the booth, and as soon as they're you know you go. Oh, wow! I know what you're a movie star, and not just you know not. And maybe somebody else. Is it because they're so I can't put? I can't tell you exactly with words what it is, but when you perform

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stephanfranck: I believe you and you're taking me.

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stephanfranck: you know one of my

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stephanfranck: story story artist. Amazing amazing main story artist on the

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stephanfranck: I saw a direct party and he was. He told me, something that was really touching. He said,

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stephanfranck: I love you. You said you told. That's him telling me that I told I give him the best compliment he ever had. I was like, okay, what did I say? And he said, you told me you said so. That's me saying at the time I told him, Hey, man, you gave me. He showed me a sequence, and I said, you gave me something I did not even know I needed. You know.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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stephanfranck: And so meaning. He not only did what was in the script what I had written, but he had brought like an extra.

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Tad Eggleston: Something extra.

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stephanfranck: Quality, and it's the same with the actors. Once those actors just just grab on to the the words and the and the you know, and they just just perform it.

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stephanfranck: You they are giving you something you did not even know you needed until 5 min.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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stephanfranck: You know.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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stephanfranck: And and what's what's fun is that goes all the way

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stephanfranck: to the very, very end of the process, you know whether you know, like it could be

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stephanfranck: a joke, you know. You know you know certain jokes only

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stephanfranck: work by the time you hit sound, or by the time you even sometimes eat di, whatever you know what I mean. So.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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stephanfranck: Scary, because you know, everybody's telling you that joke's not funny, that joke. And you're gonna wait until sound. Wait until sound, and you know, and you get, you know, and then you get a kick. And now, all of a sudden, the joke's funny, you know, and so every part of the process opens new doors that you didn't know existed until you got there.

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Tad Eggleston: That actually, you know, and I don't know if there will be a good answer for this, because while I know you did some work on the movie. It wasn't a lot one of my things that I loved

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Tad Eggleston: about the the special edition DVD. Of into the spider-verse that came out

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Tad Eggleston: was, it had a lot of deleted scenes that you don't see often in

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Tad Eggleston: animated films, because they're often really rough, and some of them were really rough. They made the decision to go and and add at least sound to most of them, though I think there were a couple that they just put like subtitles at the bottom, saying what it would have.

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Tad Eggleston: But like a couple of them I went. This would have changed the movie, and in such a positive way. And I love the movie so much so like, I'm curious as to why they decided to cut this, and how.

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stephanfranck: And I was I in this 1st year I was I. As you said, I worked on it just

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Tad Eggleston: Right? No. And my question, my question for you wasn't supposed to be for that movie. My question for you is like

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Tad Eggleston: budget is a thing. Time is a thing. So how hard is it to make decisions when you're seeing something that's not done yet, but doesn't feel like it's working right now

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Tad Eggleston: to abandon it there rather than seeing it all the way through.

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stephanfranck: there's there's 2 2 different ways in which something's not working. There's something's not working because there's something wrong with it.

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stephanfranck: And in that case, if that's a piece you do need, you're gonna have to work on it until it does

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stephanfranck: and there's also things that are not working only because there's nothing wrong with them. But they're not the right thing for the story. The story, maybe, has moved a certain way where this part that you loved 6 months ago now has become redundant or has become going in the in the, you know, maybe going a different, you know. So the you know how the same music, you know the

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stephanfranck: it's very hard, you know, for the for the you can't let the guitar player mix the album, you know.

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stephanfranck: And so it's this, like you have to. When you're in this process, you have to be a guitar player that's

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stephanfranck: able to mix the album. If the analogy cannot, you know, so you can be precious.

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stephanfranck: You can't. you know you can't, and that's, I think, like the part of

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stephanfranck: being a professional at anything, I think in any discipline is like putting in your 10,000 h, or whatever it is. But you.

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Tad Eggleston: Right, right.

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stephanfranck: Getting past the preciousness

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stephanfranck: where? Because a lot of the preciousness comes from fear that oh, somehow, this turned out okay. I don't want to let it go, because if I do, who knows if I can do it again? Right? So you need to get past that to where you know what you're doing. Enough that you trust that you can do it again, and you can do it again and slightly differently. And you can do it again. The 10 million different ways, then it can be different, and they're all going to be fine, and you'll pick the one that is right for the story.

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Tad Eggleston: I love that answer. But I'm going to drill down a little bit more. I want to use the specific

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Tad Eggleston: example that you just used of the joke that you you have.

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stephanfranck: Oh, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: You have the people around you saying, this isn't funny, and you're going well, you got to wait for sound, and they're they're still saying, I mean, is there ever a point

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Tad Eggleston: where

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Tad Eggleston: I mean, because it is a team thing? You're not working alone? Is there ever a point where it's like really hard to go. I am certain that once we get it done, you'll think I'm right when everybody is going. I'm not seeing it yet. I'm not seeing it yet. I'm not seeing it yet. I mean, what's the and or is there the reverse? Are there times where you're not seeing something? And you've got somebody working under you going, Stefan. You got it'll be there. It'll it's coming when you see it. You're going to be blown, you know. How does?

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Tad Eggleston: How does the back and forth work in terms of deciding how to.

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stephanfranck: It's just, you know. I think you're absolutely right. I think it goes back to the 1st thing I was saying, that directing is about trust. It's about you trusting the people and trusting the fact that they're there for a reason, and that they in certain cases will see things that you don't see yet, and you need to give them the space and the trust

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stephanfranck: to do them. So you can go. Oh, I see what you're saying that. Yes, that's awesome, and also

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stephanfranck: the the trust for them.

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stephanfranck: You know that. So like, for instance.

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stephanfranck: you know, like it's it's happened to me in in the past that I worked with directors. You know that you do exactly what they say, you know, and then when they see it, they go like

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stephanfranck: it's not working, because obviously it was the wrong choice. And but you did exactly what they said, and they go like, why did you do that? And you know. So you can't work like this is, you can't. This is never gonna work. If you're that type of a of a team leader, you're never going to get the best out of people, because everybody's gonna be in this mode of trying to cover their asses, you know. So you have to be completely fine with saying stuff like, Hey, man!

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stephanfranck: You did exactly what I asked, and you executed it perfectly. But now that I'm seeing it, I've come to think that it was the wrong choice. In the 1st place, sorry about making you do the work. It looks awesome. It's just not the right thing, and that's on me, and no one in your team will ever have a problem with you, saying that they will appreciate it, you know, or

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stephanfranck: As I was saying this, I was like, there's also another side to that. But

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stephanfranck: you know so. But but the the point is, or or yes, or you have to to be able to say, Hey, guys, I was thinking

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stephanfranck: this, or even like within a conversation, you know, like the you know, the turn of phrase that I hear like in the like on on. What if we had a great, great, great writing room, you know.

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stephanfranck: and the thing that we very all of us very often said, you know, like we would argue something passionately. We would like make the case for this, you know. And then, 5 min later I'd be, or somebody else would be, you know.

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stephanfranck: Hey? You know, I know I made the case for this.

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stephanfranck: But now, off of something you said.

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stephanfranck: I'm gonna make a different case. That's completely different. And you know, and it's going off of what other it's. It's.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay.

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stephanfranck: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: My autistic snarkiness needs to jump in right now. It just it has to come out. It's almost like you're saying that clear and honest communication with empathy, and the willingness to change one's mind based on new information is

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Tad Eggleston: good.

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Tad Eggleston: It's the only way it's more than, and see if only.

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stephanfranck: It's impossible. If it has.

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Tad Eggleston: If only more people knew that.

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stephanfranck: Yeah, I know it's basic human existence, you know.

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Tad Eggleston: I wish it was basic human existence.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean, I feel like it's basic human existence, too. But like.

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Tad Eggleston: when I hear things again, it's the autistic brain, I'm thinking, like, how many people do we

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Tad Eggleston: lionized for being bullies? How many people do we lionize for never changing their mind about things, and it's like it's almost like those are bad traits rather. And you know, I mean, obviously, you can go to politics. But how many, how many directors are great directors because they stuck to their vision, even if that meant treating their actors like shit.

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stephanfranck: Yeah, you can't. I mean, like, yes, I mean well and honestly like

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stephanfranck: even let's say, let's assume, for the sake of conversations, that you're that person that that works for you, you know. Is this the life you want? Is this, how you want to live your life.

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Tad Eggleston: I agree.

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stephanfranck: Is how the vibe that you want to get from your day. You know what I mean.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Last question on.

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stephanfranck: I will say sorry. I will just say something.

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Tad Eggleston: Sorry.

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stephanfranck: I will say I mean, I've been in this business 35 years this year, and

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stephanfranck: the experiences that I've had that were negative or or like.

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stephanfranck: you know, I can't count. On the one hand, it's it's over

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stephanfranck: that's fantastic to hear like, oh, everybody's nice already. Of course. Me, by the way I get. You know I'm not always perfect, you know, but I'm just saying I when I'm not, I know that I should.

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Tad Eggleston: That's fantastic to hear, and I I pray that it's more indicative of the industry rather than your good luck. I'm going to assume that it is because that will make me happier.

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Tad Eggleston: You hear this.

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stephanfranck: No? Well, it's I mean, it's true. It's it's a community, it's it's and the thing I'll say, too, is I think in my

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stephanfranck: life, you know, I've had really like the good fortune of.

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stephanfranck: There are certain people, whether it was in music or there was in in animation or comics, people who.

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stephanfranck: where? My idols that I learned my trade, trying to copy their music or trying to cut, you know, learn to play from what they were playing, or learn to draw from what they were drawing, or and I've become friends and get to work with a huge number of those people and.

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Tad Eggleston: Always a cool feeling.

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stephanfranck: And, you know, like the whole thing, never meet your idols, you know that was never.

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Tad Eggleston: So far, so far it hasn't been bad for you right.

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stephanfranck: That was like the every. They were all at the at the.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, and as you're describing animation, I wonder if I mean because I actually have a theory on why there aren't that many jerks in comics. Obviously there are some, and they they

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Tad Eggleston: become really well known, etc.

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Tad Eggleston: But but by and large the people in comics are really gracious to each other. They're really helpful to each other. They're really kind to their fans whatnot. And my theory has always been twofold. First, st

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Tad Eggleston: with rare rare exceptions, it's a very collaborative medium, and if you're the jerk, people won't want to work with you again. Almost no amount of talent will make it worth working for you again because because of number thing B, which is, there's not enough money in comics to have it. Be your chosen career

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Tad Eggleston: if you're not passionate about it.

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stephanfranck: That's 100%.

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Tad Eggleston: And then the final thing is

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Tad Eggleston: to make money in comics often requires

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Tad Eggleston: hand selling your own comics and being nice to comic shop owners, or comic fans, or whatever. So if you don't have the personality that is at the very least good at publicly being a good guy.

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Tad Eggleston: you're never going to make it in comics.

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Tad Eggleston: and it sounds like that's the animation. World, too, is like you have to the very least.

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stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know. Yes, I you know again, I mean, like we live in very dark times. Let's face it, you know. So it feels weird for me to say that everybody's nice and stuff like that. I'm just saying.

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Tad Eggleston: No, I.

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stephanfranck: My experience.

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Tad Eggleston: I love it.

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stephanfranck: The people. And you're absolutely right, you know, like, when my, when my kids were teenagers, you know, they were starting to get like their 1st like summer jobs and stuff like that, you know. They always ask you. So what should I know? What should I know, you know, and my my advice was always one thing, just from my own professional

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stephanfranck: adventures, you know, I said, listen. There's 2 kinds of people in any job. Situation doesn't matter what the job is. There's the people who make your day easier, and there's people who make your day harder.

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Tad Eggleston: One of the people that makes days easier.

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stephanfranck: Kept around right.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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stephanfranck: I think in life in general that it's it's that's that's what it is. And of course you know.

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stephanfranck: as you said when you

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stephanfranck: choose a life that isn't like an artistic project, you know.

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stephanfranck: you know, it's very hard, because art is always personal. You put a lot of your, but as everybody does in every job, you know what I mean. But it's true that there's a very personal, very. Sometimes it's separate. It's hard to separate the

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stephanfranck: you become your your value as a human being becomes your art in the, in your eyes or the eyes of some, you know, you know and

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stephanfranck: And so

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stephanfranck: it, you know. And when that becomes linked with like real world A, I have to make money. I have to make sure people. My phone keeps ringing, and then, it can create a a

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stephanfranck: a lot of tension, a lot of pressure.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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stephanfranck: For me like I would say the biggest pressure was just artistic, you know, just like learning to be good enough to, you know. You know that that's the I feel like the main struggle

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stephanfranck: was over myself, right to.

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stephanfranck: But then.

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stephanfranck: statistically more skilled, more on the human level, better at working with people better at working with teams that to me

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stephanfranck: there's enough there to work on without me getting into.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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stephanfranck: Like on the outside that yep.

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Tad Eggleston: That segues really well into my last animation question isn't even really entirely an animation question, because it's inspired by

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Tad Eggleston: by things I've I've had in conversations with artistic friends off the air. But I think this is the 1st opportunity I've had to really examine it on the air.

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Tad Eggleston: I have an actor friend who was in a play that was very well reviewed. He was very well reviewed in it.

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Tad Eggleston: The director was very happy with what came out, and he never was, because he never quite shared the director's view. And I've had a writer friend who

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Tad Eggleston: wrote a fantastic comic, and and, like the the

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Tad Eggleston: publisher was happy with the final product. The the

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Tad Eggleston: General critics seem to be happy with the final product. It was a smaller comic, so it's hard to judge by sales numbers, because it was never going to be huge sales, numbers.

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stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: But he wasn't particularly happy with the art that had been turned in, and he has the utmost respect for the artist. He just felt like they'd wound up going in

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Tad Eggleston: different directions. Yeah,

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Tad Eggleston: So I'm always interested in these

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Tad Eggleston: collaborative things. And I'm assuming that you've experienced this at least once in 35 years on one side or the other, where, like

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Tad Eggleston: everybody's doing good work.

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Tad Eggleston: And that doesn't mean everybody's as happy with the final project as others. How how do you reconcile a job well done with?

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Tad Eggleston: I'm not as personally proud of the art that was put out on a whole, I mean, because you were just talking about like your challenges. Is, am I proud of the art? And that is a challenge. But but like paying, the rent's a good thing, too, and whatnot. So so those times where the rent is paid and everybody else thinks the art is great.

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Tad Eggleston: But you're sitting there going okay.

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Tad Eggleston: like, like, how from a mental health standpoint, if nothing else. I mean, how how.

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stephanfranck: Now, that's pretty interesting I think.

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stephanfranck: for me. Well, first, st there, there's 2 types of projects. There's projects that I'm taking on

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stephanfranck: as like, all right, this is me. I will live and die with this project. I will die on the hill of this project, because either it's my comic book or because it's it's based on my comic book, or maybe because it's something I'm directing or producing. Or yeah, I'm just, Hey, I'm

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stephanfranck: the person of records for this, you know, and so

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stephanfranck: for this this type of stuff it will. It's not enough that it's well done. It also needs to

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stephanfranck: artistically exist in the space that I feel is a success, that so that there's no doubt about it. But there's also

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stephanfranck: a lot of other projects where I'm like, Hey, I'm here to serve.

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stephanfranck: You know what I mean. So, for instance, let's say, you know, I'm let's say I'm doing storyboards for somebody else's movie, you know. And and I'm like, here. It's it's like, you're an actor. You know what I mean. It's like you're I'm here to bring a performance to your vision, and the moment that I sign on I will

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stephanfranck: do everything that I can, and put all my intuitions, all mind that in the service of your vision, you know, and is your vision. The vision I would have had if it was me who's in charge. Maybe I went in a different direction. But it doesn't matter.

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Tad Eggleston: I wish that we knew all actors were like that. We hear enough about fighting on set between actors and directors.

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stephanfranck: But see, like. So this is to me you're talking about mental health and stuff like that. That's also why it's very important for me to balance things out. This is why I need, you know, projects where I'm just helping somebody, so that I won't live and die by the success of that project. At the same time, I need stuff that is mine so that I feel like it. You know, I'm doing the stuff that I need to do.

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Tad Eggleston: That makes a lot of sense.

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stephanfranck: There's projects that I like to work with a big team like in animation. And and it's to me it's as much about guiding the team as it is about learning from the team, because everybody is is there for a reason, you know.

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stephanfranck: right.

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stephanfranck: I also love being alone, doing a graphic novel alone that completely has is unadulterated. My, you know what's coming out of there, you know. So to me, this is the way

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stephanfranck: you have to balance to me. The key to mental health is understanding every situation you're in and not projecting onto it things that are not on the table. You know what I mean. Like if you go help on somebody else's movie.

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stephanfranck: But you feel like, Hey, it's my movie, too. And you know then, sure enough.

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Tad Eggleston: I almost wonder if that's I mean just autistic brain thinking all over the place. I wonder if that's why Carrie Fisher was a script, doctor

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Tad Eggleston: rather than writing screenplays.

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stephanfranck: Well, I see. Okay. So here's the.

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Tad Eggleston: If that allowed her to have the further distance, because she seemed to not like

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Tad Eggleston: she seemed to really want to be able to control her spotlight. She she grew up in it, you know.

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stephanfranck: I don't know.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean, that's just that. I didn't didn't say you knew the answer. That's a that's like my brain.

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stephanfranck: I'll give you an element to the answer and again I said, I don't know her. I've never.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.

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stephanfranck: It's another.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.

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stephanfranck: For in general, but in general there is a thing that

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stephanfranck: the Hollywood ecosystem does to writers which goes like this. There's like a cycle to a lot of writers careers in Hollywood right? Like the cycle starts with. You know

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stephanfranck: you're you're writing your spec script on your own, you know, and you write this this, you know

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stephanfranck: this great script, you know, and then people read it. People love it. Maybe you get an agent that maybe gets sold to a studio, and at that point either it gets made or it does not get made. But people go like, Wow, this is good, though I'm going to give you an assignment. And I mean and this is, I'm talking like this is the old ways, because I think everything's different now. I don't know how it is. But like from the the years that have been around, this is how typically would go. And the thing is that

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stephanfranck: the the better the writer the more money they can commend. And then the studio goes. Yeah, so since we're paying a lot of money for this person.

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stephanfranck: instead of having them write something that's deep in development. Let's have them put out the big fires. Let's put them on the stuff that is just about to go in production, because, like, of course, you want the best people on the stuff that's tomorrow. So, little by little.

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stephanfranck: writers get to go from writing from the blank page writing a spec

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stephanfranck: to to having an assignment. Oh, it's still a blank page, but it's based on already, like the the you know what toys you're supposed to play with to like. Now, I'm in the in the writing room, you know, like rewriting 2 scenes. So so the movie can shoot tomorrow, or I'm in the writing, I mean in the I'm in a round table can adjust for 3 h you're cranking up like 50 gags. You know what I mean

401
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stephanfranck: comes alive tomorrow, and so they get caught up in the immediacy of those situations that are super urgent because they're about to shoot the thing, but at the same time that are very, become very, very, very, very reductive

402
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stephanfranck: from a creative standpoint, and very far away from the blank page of writing a spec script right? And so so that creates so, you know, and

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stephanfranck: I mean.

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stephanfranck: and there's so that's why I was saying like you're saying, like, there's those amazing writers that I know. But they've only done 2 movie. Yeah. But you know, maybe they rewrote 50.

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Tad Eggleston: Maybe they're doing all sorts.

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Tad Eggleston: Maybe it turns out every good music movie out there has had Alan Moyle working behind the scenes.

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stephanfranck: Getting like a million dollar to show up for 3 weeks to. It's hard to go back and writing something from scratch for no money. You know what I'm saying. So it's

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stephanfranck: I think, as a there, there, you know.

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stephanfranck: On the one hand, you want the big assignments.

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stephanfranck: but the biggest, and they're great. And they, you know, the great opportunities. But the big assignments also take something from you

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stephanfranck: which is a sense of autonomy, of hey? How well do I do when there's no assignment, when it's all

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stephanfranck: you know. And so I think that's what I've been trying to protect in my in my career is to a sense of

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stephanfranck: yeah, you know, like, yeah, I'm part of the magic, you know. There, you know. But but I'm saying part of the magic, because

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stephanfranck: back in the nineties, when it was like the the height of vanity plates on cars. Right? Normally, people, vanity plates. But then they realized they could sell more plastic by selling people vanity

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stephanfranck: plate

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Tad Eggleston: Older, older, right.

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stephanfranck: And so like a lot of people who worked at Disney had this, this, this

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stephanfranck: vanity plate holder, that said part of the magic.

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Tad Eggleston: And yeah.

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stephanfranck: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Also feels like the type of thing that that Disney would hand out.

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stephanfranck: And you know, I'm like, Yeah, it's great. You're part of the magic. But.

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Tad Eggleston: Here's your bonus, here's your Christmas bonus, a a vanity plate holder.

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stephanfranck: Yeah, there you go. 25 years with the company. Yeah, no. But.

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Tad Eggleston: Happy birthday. Have a vanity plate holder.

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stephanfranck: Right right? And so so, my, the thing that I think is important to to protect is that? Yes, it's great to be part of the magic. But then, for whatever reason, let's say you're no longer part of the magic, and you're at home now.

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stephanfranck: Can you make some magic happen still? Or have you lost that in the process? Right? So.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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stephanfranck: That's that's the I think the thing that artists need to, especially in these days, where you can't count on like, Hey, I'm working for the same studio for 30 years. Those days are over. So you have to.

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Tad Eggleston: No, it's all work for hire. It's all work for hire.

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stephanfranck: It, even if it was already work for hire. But it was long term work for hire.

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stephanfranck: Now it's just like what.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, they discovered that they like it better. If you're a freelancer, because that means less health insurance and and easier to let you go, and

434
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Tad Eggleston: when the corporate entities take over.

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stephanfranck: You know, the world will be what it is. But but at the end of the day, just as an artist, you have to protect your artistic autonomy and be able. Understand that

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stephanfranck: you're not part of their magic. They're part of your magic, you know, and they're renting your magic for a while, and that's awesome. But then, once you're also on your own, you know, like, do do you? You know, do you still have that magic with you, and the ability to manifest it on your own volition. You know.

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Tad Eggleston: So that's a perfect place to

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Tad Eggleston: to, to pivot to the magic of yours that I know so so well.

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Tad Eggleston: And I want to start with romance in the Space Age, and and I know you lead off with everybody asks this question. Romance in the age of the space God, I'm sorry. That's right romance in the age of the Space God. And I know that as of

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Tad Eggleston: last year, your answer was, I don't know.

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Tad Eggleston: Do you know. Yet if if romance in the age of the space God is a self-contained story, or whether we might get more.

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stephanfranck: I do not know yet.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay, that's fair.

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stephanfranck: I will tell you why. I will tell you why, because

445
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stephanfranck: the world is moving faster and crazier than this series can even keep up with.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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stephanfranck: And so.

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stephanfranck: Like it's a you know. It's I have to kind of wait and see what happens.

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Tad Eggleston: I well 1st give the front counter pitch for romance in the age of the Space God. A nice long title that I have to look at every time to make certain I say it right.

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stephanfranck: Well, you know, I think one of the biggest questions that people have these days, especially the younger people.

451
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stephanfranck: And it's kind of started with millennials, really, you know. But now they're not so young anymore, but like the Gen. Z. And

452
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stephanfranck: after. And the is the question of finding meaning and purpose in a broken world.

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stephanfranck: And and like, How do you? How do you? Who are, you know, when the the world is going crazy and doing things that he can't quite, you know, abide, you know. Yet you have one life to live, and you got to make it count, you know.

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stephanfranck: And and so that was the the original idea for this and

455
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stephanfranck: because, as I said, we're like

456
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stephanfranck: in the business of telling stories in the word, the most universal stories in the weirdest way possible, because I was saying earlier, or because I'm a big fan of call barks, or because the 1st

457
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stephanfranck: work movie I ever worked on was, and revival goes West. So so I was just like, you know, I'll make this like a a weird, almost like, yeah, show show the image so that people know what I'm talking about like. So it makes sense. Otherwise it's just like, what is he saying?

458
00:58:03.820 --> 00:58:06.379
Tad Eggleston: It'll be up at our our show notes.

459
00:58:06.420 --> 00:58:08.120
stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah, we're audio.

460
00:58:08.120 --> 00:58:14.050
stephanfranck: I, I need the visual aid on this. But so basically, right? So we're in this world, which is.

461
00:58:15.260 --> 00:58:22.310
stephanfranck: you see and stuff like that. It's like our world like in the Dystopian version of our world. But at the same time it's with like.

462
00:58:22.310 --> 00:58:24.600
stephanfranck: I mean, is it really dystopian.

463
00:58:24.830 --> 00:58:26.500
Tad Eggleston: It feels pretty real.

464
00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:29.340
stephanfranck: Well, maybe we're dystopian.

465
00:58:29.660 --> 00:58:31.518
stephanfranck: That that makes sense that

466
00:58:31.890 --> 00:58:36.679
stephanfranck: this is what I'm telling you. It's just like the world is going too fast for this to.

467
00:58:36.680 --> 00:58:37.130
Tad Eggleston: Right.

468
00:58:37.894 --> 00:59:03.795
stephanfranck: And so so you know, it's a world where the unthinkable has happened, you know. Politics has descended into this kind of chaos you know. And also this weird object that looks like a black giant egg, you know, as, and it's around the earth. It was found buried in the one of the moons of Saturn. And now it's it's you know, it's around the

469
00:59:04.220 --> 00:59:09.919
stephanfranck: The earth has got this weird property that you can see it.

470
00:59:10.740 --> 00:59:14.840
stephanfranck: It seems to be in the simplest in the sky, from anywhere you see it on earth.

471
00:59:14.980 --> 00:59:31.420
stephanfranck: So which is just like blows, people, mind, and people are start to to think of it as the space God, you know, and no one knows why it's there and why, you know why. And it's freaking out. And we're following this, these young characters who are just

472
00:59:31.730 --> 00:59:39.239
stephanfranck: trying to navigate that, that that life and they have their emotions and they have their micro goals like this girl who's

473
00:59:39.970 --> 01:00:00.639
stephanfranck: you know, trying to exist in this kind of corporate situation. There she's working, and where, you know, it's everything is super treacherous. And this her brother, you know, a foster care, Foster. Care, brother. They grew up together, you know, who's like this guy who's kind of floating around. He goes from.

474
01:00:03.330 --> 01:00:13.259
stephanfranck: you know, small job to small job, and he can't keep any of them down, you know, and at the same time. You know, he's got this. He's got something to him. And and

475
01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:44.100
stephanfranck: and we learned that somehow is in the center of this plot that we don't quite understand. That is related to the the big scheme of the space God. And then we have this other young woman who's like clearly works for the resistance and knows things and stuff like that. And it's it's them kind of their lives intersecting. And it's coming together. And I I did it during Covid. When the life the world felt like it was completely falling apart, and that

476
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:51.280
stephanfranck: very quickly. And I, you know, it became this, and I think it's 44 pages, or something like that.

477
01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:52.290
Tad Eggleston: Sounds about right?

478
01:00:52.290 --> 01:00:55.405
stephanfranck: It reads, and I say in the

479
01:00:56.050 --> 01:01:01.890
stephanfranck: at the beginning, I'm sorry. Okay, I can't tell you if this is the 1st issue of a series.

480
01:01:02.520 --> 01:01:17.419
stephanfranck: or if it's just like a self-contained, open-ended little short story, Novella. Kind of thing, you know, and like a time capsule of a little window on this world. And we, you know, and

481
01:01:17.860 --> 01:01:21.550
stephanfranck: you know I like Philip K. Dick kind of short stories, kind of.

482
01:01:21.550 --> 01:01:22.020
Tad Eggleston: Right.

483
01:01:22.020 --> 01:01:28.860
stephanfranck: It's gonna be one or the other. And the the thing is there, there's some level of

484
01:01:30.450 --> 01:02:00.209
stephanfranck: to my process where I never know what I'm going to do until I sit down at my table so it could very well be that I'm sitting down tomorrow, and I'm starting the second chapter or or it won't happen for years. I don't know. We'll see. It's it feels like right now. It needs to wait and see. It's kind of like doing this weird two-step with the world started during Covid. There's some trump references in there, then trump like, well, there's that! And now he's back. Whoa! So this is Ralph.

485
01:02:00.210 --> 01:02:00.840
Tad Eggleston: Right.

486
01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:07.950
stephanfranck: So is this weird dance with the world that this series is doing, and we'll see what happens.

487
01:02:08.480 --> 01:02:27.189
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, this is my 1st chance to say that all of Stefan's comics are available at dark. Dash planet dash comics.com, including romance in the age of the space God for 1299, which is 1299, incredibly well spent. Because my opinion is.

488
01:02:27.410 --> 01:02:49.210
Tad Eggleston: it can be either of those things. It stands well alone. It stands really well alone. It could also be the start of a series. It could be the start of a universe. There are so many things I mean, the next chapter doesn't have. I mean, it's already. And this is so rare in a standalone. And you make it work so well, even though it's another one of those hard things to do.

489
01:02:49.300 --> 01:03:01.851
Tad Eggleston: Nonlinear. It's like we're gonna jump, jump forward half an hour back 2 days, you know. So as you're reading it, you have to piece together everything that's going on

490
01:03:02.490 --> 01:03:23.800
Tad Eggleston: beautiful in all the possible ways. I wonder? I mean you. You pointed out the obvious references in that you'd worked on 5. All goes West, and and you love Karl Barks. But in terms of of using mice to face horror. I wonder if Mouse was in the back of your head somewhere, too.

491
01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:30.380
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Cause there's there's a tradition of using mice as.

492
01:03:30.380 --> 01:03:39.870
stephanfranck: Yeah, you know, and and and you know, and Prince, the cat, to some degree, you know, although I'm not doing the thing, because, like, there's like an aesthetic

493
01:03:41.900 --> 01:03:50.209
stephanfranck: there's there's a level of aesthetic distance that I'm trying to not break with this thing like, for instance, you're never gonna see sex or nudity

494
01:03:50.430 --> 01:03:59.219
stephanfranck: with this, because once you start doing that with those little you know furry animals, then it becomes something else. Right? So I'm keeping it in a certain way, like on the Zootopia.

495
01:03:59.220 --> 01:04:06.569
Tad Eggleston: Though I do have one question from an artistic standpoint. And I wonder like, is this something that you

496
01:04:07.880 --> 01:04:11.899
Tad Eggleston: thought about as hard as I thought about it the 1st time I saw the panel.

497
01:04:13.117 --> 01:04:22.029
Tad Eggleston: They're they're they're and I guess not when they're on the spacewalk. So that makes more sense. But when they're in the space

498
01:04:22.500 --> 01:04:26.160
Tad Eggleston: their spacesuits, their ears stick out.

499
01:04:26.770 --> 01:04:30.159
Tad Eggleston: And that just that just struck me. I'm like.

500
01:04:31.050 --> 01:04:33.299
Tad Eggleston: does that make sense, or does that not make sense?

501
01:04:33.300 --> 01:04:37.490
stephanfranck: That's awesome. Let me see, you get.

502
01:04:40.030 --> 01:04:45.120
stephanfranck: Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. In the, in the, in the inner suits, not the not the space suit. Space.

503
01:04:45.120 --> 01:04:50.170
Tad Eggleston: No, nothing. I I just noticed that when they're when they're outside their their ears don't stick out.

504
01:04:50.170 --> 01:04:50.749
stephanfranck: Oh, I see!

505
01:04:50.750 --> 01:04:52.689
Tad Eggleston: That really wouldn't have made sense.

506
01:04:52.690 --> 01:04:55.250
stephanfranck: Because I didn't have an explanation for that.

507
01:04:57.570 --> 01:05:02.599
stephanfranck: But yeah, I I think it'd be it'd be. It was cool, I mean, like the big ears. And I I think.

508
01:05:02.600 --> 01:05:25.800
Tad Eggleston: Well, but it's still. It seems like they wouldn't be as protected when you put the helmet on them. You know I'm sitting there going because I this is one of those places, and I haven't. I haven't called her yet, but my cousin worked at NASA for 20 years at Mission control. So like there's a part of me that wants to call her up and say so. Let's assume that we were sending life-sized mice into space.

509
01:05:26.450 --> 01:05:29.310
stephanfranck: Anthropomorphic right.

510
01:05:29.310 --> 01:05:36.779
Tad Eggleston: Would would it? Would it make sense to have the ears outside of the the inner skull cap.

511
01:05:37.490 --> 01:05:41.090
stephanfranck: I think it would probably not make sense, but.

512
01:05:41.090 --> 01:05:42.559
Tad Eggleston: But it looks cool.

513
01:05:42.560 --> 01:05:43.330
stephanfranck: It looks cool.

514
01:05:43.330 --> 01:05:43.760
Tad Eggleston: That's cool.

515
01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:45.250
stephanfranck: You know.

516
01:05:45.790 --> 01:06:03.439
Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's like sometimes sometimes I can't think of a comic off the top of my head that I know has done this, but I know it's been done in ways that don't bother me like, you know, they're in a helmet in space, but then they drop it at some point, because you need to see their faces for.

517
01:06:03.440 --> 01:06:05.680
stephanfranck: There you go for the story to be told properly.

518
01:06:05.680 --> 01:06:14.220
stephanfranck: that or you know, yeah, the studio said, Hey, we're paying to see the you know, we're paying for what we're gonna wanna see.

519
01:06:14.220 --> 01:06:23.159
Tad Eggleston: Well, but but like even in independent comics, where it's not anybody saying that it has to be done, it's it's like, okay, this thing.

520
01:06:23.550 --> 01:06:30.259
Tad Eggleston: you know, and oftentimes there will even be something, so that your mind knows that in reality

521
01:06:30.410 --> 01:06:31.990
Tad Eggleston: they're in a helmet.

522
01:06:33.060 --> 01:06:33.890
stephanfranck: Yes.

523
01:06:34.380 --> 01:06:34.860
Tad Eggleston: But.

524
01:06:35.050 --> 01:06:39.599
stephanfranck: That's not what we're showing you, because that doesn't tell the story as well.

525
01:06:39.600 --> 01:06:47.830
stephanfranck: That's right, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's truth, and there's truth of truth in story, and those are 2 different things.

526
01:06:48.180 --> 01:06:48.770
Tad Eggleston: Right.

527
01:06:49.381 --> 01:07:02.698
Tad Eggleston: But yeah, no, I love this book so much. I'm certain I will read more if you decide or read it many more times. If you decide to do more I will be 1st on board to read it.

528
01:07:03.500 --> 01:07:08.790
Tad Eggleston: yeah, it was. It was special. It also

529
01:07:10.650 --> 01:07:19.519
Tad Eggleston: throws up because because, as I was thinking, or as I was listening to you talk about animation and how it works as I'd been thinking about it before the podcast

530
01:07:20.493 --> 01:07:27.920
Tad Eggleston: your, your 4 different comics works silver.

531
01:07:28.340 --> 01:07:34.460
Tad Eggleston: Rosalind, which is tied to silver, Palomino. And now romance

532
01:07:34.790 --> 01:07:45.410
Tad Eggleston: in the age of the space God, have some striking differences in style.

533
01:07:48.290 --> 01:07:55.740
Tad Eggleston: Silver is is black and white and doesn't.

534
01:07:58.200 --> 01:08:05.859
Tad Eggleston: I'm not gonna say that it doesn't do any of the the background scenery, but it's sparing in set design.

535
01:08:06.310 --> 01:08:06.880
stephanfranck: 100%.

536
01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:07.790
Tad Eggleston: Okay,

537
01:08:09.720 --> 01:08:16.870
Tad Eggleston: And then with Rosalyn, it's it's even even more so. But I think on purpose, because it's supposed to be

538
01:08:17.029 --> 01:08:22.120
Tad Eggleston: the the diary. Almost.

539
01:08:22.120 --> 01:08:22.600
stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah.

540
01:08:23.196 --> 01:08:35.049
Tad Eggleston: So so it's it's it's it's pretty much single page, very rough, very shadowed, and it works perfectly.

541
01:08:36.760 --> 01:08:38.730
Tad Eggleston: And then, Palomino.

542
01:08:39.020 --> 01:08:44.509
Tad Eggleston: in some ways it's the one where you show your animation. Experience the most because it has

543
01:08:44.700 --> 01:08:48.320
Tad Eggleston: detailed set design right down to like

544
01:08:48.850 --> 01:08:58.470
Tad Eggleston: things like the the snoopy poster in the kitchen, and you know things that are not just there, but are always there

545
01:09:00.069 --> 01:09:04.789
Tad Eggleston: And a much more fleshed out three-dimensional world that I

546
01:09:05.470 --> 01:09:17.479
Tad Eggleston: that, even though it shows your your animation. Bona fides you're you're you're you're panel layouts, your

547
01:09:21.899 --> 01:09:30.839
Tad Eggleston: sound design for lack of a better term. You know your your sound effects. That sort of thing. Show a deep

548
01:09:31.250 --> 01:09:36.379
Tad Eggleston: knowledge of the language of comics as well. So I mean, in a lot of ways. It brings

549
01:09:36.609 --> 01:09:49.040
Tad Eggleston: all of the best things from great animation and great comics into one thing, and then romance in the era of the space gods has elements of that.

550
01:09:49.210 --> 01:09:50.770
Tad Eggleston: but also

551
01:09:53.910 --> 01:09:56.049
Tad Eggleston: trying to find the right term

552
01:09:56.200 --> 01:10:09.055
Tad Eggleston: to say it, because it feels very deliberate, so so to say, that it was stripped down or lazy, or anything like that doesn't feel like anywhere near the right word.

553
01:10:09.630 --> 01:10:16.619
Tad Eggleston: blurred. The lines are blurred rather than making specific references rather rather than

554
01:10:18.890 --> 01:10:23.870
Tad Eggleston: I mean. Yes, we know it's New York, but but rather than than like

555
01:10:24.310 --> 01:10:35.179
Tad Eggleston: seeing things tight enough to absolutely date it in a given era. I mean, it's like it's like the background is

556
01:10:37.230 --> 01:10:38.830
Tad Eggleston: deliberately

557
01:10:44.060 --> 01:10:47.190
Tad Eggleston: not as fleshed out, because that

558
01:10:47.470 --> 01:10:50.889
Tad Eggleston: gives a more universal air to the story.

559
01:10:52.080 --> 01:10:53.480
Tad Eggleston: Also, I

560
01:10:54.520 --> 01:11:00.329
Tad Eggleston: Did you like. You have much

561
01:11:00.870 --> 01:11:14.630
Tad Eggleston: thicker inks on this. Were you working in marker, to begin with, or did you do really light pencil? I mean, I feel like, I feel like your 3 books were possibly created in almost completely different

562
01:11:15.620 --> 01:11:30.470
Tad Eggleston: manners rather than going. I do this. And then this. And then this. It's like, okay for this book. I'm going to do it this way. And I'm going to do this book this way. So okay, talk to me about that I think there's a question hiding in there, but I don't know what.

563
01:11:30.470 --> 01:11:31.079
stephanfranck: Is. But you're.

564
01:11:31.080 --> 01:11:33.600
Tad Eggleston: Nodding your head. Enough that I think you know what to say.

565
01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:47.350
stephanfranck: I know I know it's a good I it's a great question so like I think at the end of the day it boils down to this. Or at least it starts from this, which is that I think

566
01:11:48.170 --> 01:11:53.540
stephanfranck: storytelling in general has 2 2 levels.

567
01:11:53.800 --> 01:11:56.020
stephanfranck: The 1st level is clarity.

568
01:11:56.400 --> 01:12:13.317
stephanfranck: So if you're not able to excuse me to achieve clarity in your storytelling, people don't understand what you're putting down, then there's no point. There's no, there's nothing right. So 1st one is clarity, and clarity is not easy to do, you know, like you know, when

569
01:12:14.370 --> 01:12:32.850
stephanfranck: when I do conventions, you know, and you know, and people come maybe to. You know people who have not read comics before, or you know, and they always say, Oh, I love to read comics, but you know they confuse me, you know, because I don't know if I should go this way or this way, or I don't know.

570
01:12:32.850 --> 01:12:34.560
Tad Eggleston: There is a special literacy to come.

571
01:12:34.560 --> 01:12:51.180
stephanfranck: Is it the same guy? Is it a different guy, is it? I'm confused? Right? So so I think clarity is, you know, and also because I'm used to movies where you know, you have a very fine brush

572
01:12:51.290 --> 01:13:06.689
stephanfranck: in terms of the units of time that you have to work with, like one frame is, you know, but also a very fine brush in terms of the continuity of things and stuff like that. That you can. You know you can have very, very specific intentions. And so

573
01:13:06.810 --> 01:13:15.940
stephanfranck: I I say, to look for those same very specific intentions in in, in comics, you know, like, for instance, I would have a script where, you know. I'd say

574
01:13:16.090 --> 01:13:26.680
stephanfranck: she looks over, and he knows that she knows, or she knows that he, you know, and you have to draw that. And you know, and capturing the the energy of that moment

575
01:13:26.880 --> 01:13:31.339
stephanfranck: clearly, of such an abstract kind of passing

576
01:13:31.610 --> 01:13:37.820
stephanfranck: intention, requires a lot of work on clarity. Right? So clarity is one thing.

577
01:13:38.040 --> 01:13:43.800
stephanfranck: it's a lot of things. It's a lot. But clarity means nothing.

578
01:13:44.660 --> 01:13:47.679
stephanfranck: If so, in other words, it's not enough that you're

579
01:13:47.800 --> 01:13:53.990
stephanfranck: clear in what you're saying. You also need to be able to make people feel a certain way about it.

580
01:13:54.400 --> 01:14:02.750
stephanfranck: You need to be able to create sensations and emotions like a visceral human response

581
01:14:03.710 --> 01:14:19.779
stephanfranck: to the storytelling. So that this is why you cry in movies. This is why you don't go. Oh, I see. Yeah, this happened. Okay, I get it. No, you cry right? Because not only you understood what's going on, but also you feel a certain way about it. Okay, so.

582
01:14:19.780 --> 01:14:23.699
Tad Eggleston: Will say, there are more comic books that make me cry than movies that make me cry.

583
01:14:23.700 --> 01:14:24.626
stephanfranck: Comic books

584
01:14:26.400 --> 01:14:35.869
stephanfranck: so like the thing that I'm trying to do when I'm approaching a comic is to have everything in the service.

585
01:14:36.450 --> 01:15:01.739
stephanfranck: not only of clarity, but also of creating that experience, that on every level, even on the meta level of the style, the colors or or not, or that you know that already, right there, that puts you in the right space emotionally and and referentially, you know. So, for instance, silver, which is a

586
01:15:02.380 --> 01:15:08.150
stephanfranck: big kind of pulp adventure in the 19 thirties. It's

587
01:15:08.420 --> 01:15:27.399
stephanfranck: it's very pope. It's it's it's tips its hat to the the big adventure strips. You know, of the 19 thirties, you know, or big black and white movies of the, you know. But at the same time it's done in a radical way that feels modern, not like a spoof of those things, right? So

588
01:15:27.938 --> 01:15:43.870
stephanfranck: so. And you know, there's there's there's the vampire thing and stuff. So when you're thinking of like Nosferatu, and the Murnau one you know, obviously the very expressionistic

589
01:15:46.066 --> 01:15:50.800
stephanfranck: and you know. So

590
01:15:51.390 --> 01:15:59.480
stephanfranck: so the style for this book is. I was thinking of it as the most epic black box theater you've ever seen.

591
01:16:00.090 --> 01:16:29.879
stephanfranck: You know what I mean? Okay, something. Where again, at some point we have, like a giant Chase action scene that takes place, you know, that goes on for like 50 pages right in the middle of I can't remember which book it is, but where, you know, there's a horse chase. There's a big, you know, battle, big fight and and cat and mouse game in the big mill by a river. So there's a lot of epic thing. There's epic things at the end of the

592
01:16:30.050 --> 01:16:38.059
stephanfranck: of the movies. There's armies, etcetera. So it's not a small story, but it's done in this expressionistic

593
01:16:38.540 --> 01:16:44.980
stephanfranck: black box theater. Only the stuff you need comes out of the shadows. Kind of vibe.

594
01:16:44.980 --> 01:16:45.760
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

595
01:16:45.760 --> 01:16:46.230
stephanfranck: And.

596
01:16:46.230 --> 01:16:50.040
Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's almost in a cinematic sense. It's almost like hateful. 8.

597
01:16:50.550 --> 01:17:05.779
stephanfranck: That's right, exactly, you know. And and also there's this idea of using the zipper tones and black, white and zipper tones was just some. I'm cheating with some white glows for silver just to pull it out. But

598
01:17:06.580 --> 01:17:24.350
stephanfranck: That, in a way harkens back gives it like this, pop art, or even more so kind of, you know, like a newspaper kind of newsprint kind of vibe to it. So there's a Lo-fi quality, but in a very sophisticated way that feels radical and exciting, and yet

599
01:17:24.350 --> 01:17:37.850
stephanfranck: puts you back the minute you open the book. You're in that world before you know anything about the characters before you know anything about what's happening in the story. You open the book and you're already in this

600
01:17:38.080 --> 01:18:00.119
stephanfranck: world of movies adventure streams. Blah! Blah! You know what I mean. So that's the thing with this. And and so for Rosalyn, it's it's the same right where it's first.st It's an offshoot of silver. So it's it has to be in the somewhat same family of visual presentation, you know. But

601
01:18:01.000 --> 01:18:01.880
stephanfranck: that

602
01:18:02.463 --> 01:18:31.479
stephanfranck: as you said, it's a memoir. It's recollections, you know, from a child, from traumatic events, events that a child, you know wrote down in her journal. So there's a naive day to it. There's there's an you know, but you know, memories. You just remember this one detail that really stuck, you know. But then you what was what else? Who else was present? I don't remember. You know what I mean. So it's got dream state sort of quality of

603
01:18:31.670 --> 01:18:35.279
stephanfranck: traumatic memories, and also but again

604
01:18:35.460 --> 01:18:42.369
stephanfranck: read now, but written and baked in the voice and point of view of a child. So there's

605
01:18:42.780 --> 01:18:48.940
stephanfranck: there's an innocence to the art also, and to the the language that so again.

606
01:18:49.080 --> 01:18:57.760
stephanfranck: you open this thing, and before you know anything about the specifics, just the presentation of it just already puts you. You're in it. You.

607
01:18:57.760 --> 01:18:58.580
Tad Eggleston: Right.

608
01:18:59.003 --> 01:19:10.016
stephanfranck: Palomino. It's it's a very grounded story that takes place in La in 1981. So the city is, and life in the city.

609
01:19:12.540 --> 01:19:17.884
stephanfranck: is. The city is a character in here, right? And and so.

610
01:19:19.840 --> 01:19:37.502
stephanfranck: you know, and the thing that. And people will know realize this even more as we get deeper into the series, because the next 2 books are welcoming will be coming out soon. But at the end of the day. It's a story that is about impermanence and the impermanence of civilizations and and

611
01:19:38.720 --> 01:19:42.790
stephanfranck: and what is it that stays? What is the lasting

612
01:19:42.950 --> 01:19:52.869
stephanfranck: element? And it's, you know, once everything goes, it's the moral fabric that is passed from one person to the next, you know.

613
01:19:53.000 --> 01:20:02.500
stephanfranck: and that lives on. You know that sort of human spirit of justice and and truth, right? And then everything else goes, even the things that you're

614
01:20:02.500 --> 01:20:25.600
stephanfranck: your you take for granted. As your world. Everything goes, everything changes. You know. The Palomino closes everything changes, you know. And so landmarks. You know how many I've been in La for 30 years, you know, and some of place, I consider landmarks, you know, where either they burn down or they, you know, are they? Just

615
01:20:26.400 --> 01:20:33.449
stephanfranck: go. And then the you know, Meldon comics, you know the the whole, the whole blog. Now there's condos. And so you know. So

616
01:20:33.600 --> 01:20:38.050
stephanfranck: so, because the the the

617
01:20:40.670 --> 01:21:05.209
stephanfranck: sort of like the underlying theme is like this impermanence of the world you take for granted this world had to exist. That world had to exist in a very, very immediate way, you know. And so that's why all the backgrounds are very detailed, very, very consistent. I'm using. I've built all those sets in. Cg, just so, you know. So.

618
01:21:05.210 --> 01:21:06.030
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

619
01:21:06.030 --> 01:21:13.260
stephanfranck: Able to use it from, you know. And you know. So so.

620
01:21:13.640 --> 01:21:19.490
stephanfranck: so, yeah, so to me, I am a really big believer in the fact that art

621
01:21:19.880 --> 01:21:37.389
stephanfranck: is discovered. It's not decided, you know. You always decide you're going to do something and things in the thing. If you're being honest in your process. Things will tell you what they want to be as you move forward along the way, and and like. For instance, when I

622
01:21:37.440 --> 01:21:57.080
stephanfranck: start a book. I don't start by like designing characters, like, all right, this is my model sheet. Now it's this is the design. I'm gonna draw them exactly like, you know, because that's decided that's not discovered. So instead, what I do, I have a basic idea of what I want, and I kinda muddle through, as I'm doing the layouts.

623
01:21:57.140 --> 01:22:02.539
stephanfranck: and by the time I'm doing the layouts I've sort of landed on a design.

624
01:22:03.320 --> 01:22:10.740
stephanfranck: But that design emerged out of story. It was not decided artificially ahead of time as a

625
01:22:11.360 --> 01:22:13.179
stephanfranck: executive decision. You know.

626
01:22:14.070 --> 01:22:14.750
Tad Eggleston: Okay?

627
01:22:15.090 --> 01:22:23.049
Tad Eggleston: And then that kind of answered my my next question, because we recently talked to Matt Madden.

628
01:22:23.669 --> 01:22:31.639
Tad Eggleston: whose whose book 6 treasures in spiral is, is out now, and fantastic, and one of the things Matt

629
01:22:32.870 --> 01:22:50.979
Tad Eggleston: does is he likes to work with constraints, and sometimes even sets the constraint, he actually said. Often he'll set the constraint before he even really starts fleshing out the story. You know. He'll have kind of an idea. Decide on the constraint. And so like, when you were describing

630
01:22:51.780 --> 01:22:55.010
Tad Eggleston: how you were making

631
01:22:56.130 --> 01:23:06.640
Tad Eggleston: silver into, like the the most epic black box theater production ever. I'm like, Okay, that I immediately heard Matt Madden in my head. That's a constraint like. So

632
01:23:07.850 --> 01:23:14.619
Tad Eggleston: where in the process do you think of of that artistic constraint that you're putting on yourself that it's it's

633
01:23:15.620 --> 01:23:25.800
Tad Eggleston: I have to tell the story in this look, and if it doesn't work in this look, then I have to figure out how to make it look? Or is it something that comes very organically for you?

634
01:23:25.800 --> 01:23:28.350
stephanfranck: I think it comes very organically, but it comes very quickly

635
01:23:28.959 --> 01:23:39.490
stephanfranck: by the time I'm on the 1st page and I get oh, I I see what this needs to be, you know. I see, you know so it happens very quickly.

636
01:23:42.500 --> 01:23:52.880
stephanfranck: and it's more gut feeling, and it's never that's the thing I want to say, like nothing I do comes from like some stuff intellectual decision, you know, for this book. I will. Do.

637
01:23:53.490 --> 01:23:54.490
stephanfranck: you know.

638
01:23:54.900 --> 01:23:57.393
Tad Eggleston: Figure that stuff out at the end.

639
01:23:57.750 --> 01:24:08.700
stephanfranck: Second panel will be a triangle. Yeah, I never decide again. That's again like the discovered, not decided, but the but the discovery sometimes come very quickly, you know.

640
01:24:10.830 --> 01:24:21.559
Tad Eggleston: Okay, that's I love the different ways that artists work because there are artists that will make decisions like that, and then discover the story that comes out of.

641
01:24:22.920 --> 01:24:37.219
Tad Eggleston: I mean because I mean having talked to Matt, having talked to other writers that don't always manage to start from pure discovery. I know that they do a ton of discovery, but sometimes they need to

642
01:24:37.720 --> 01:24:58.209
Tad Eggleston: like, constrain themselves, to be able to discover if that makes sense. So it seems like you just sit down. And it's like, Oh, I have all of these ideas. Let's see where they start going. And the constraints just fall into place based on. Okay. Now, I need to start paring this down into an actual story to tell rather than

643
01:24:58.830 --> 01:25:00.410
Tad Eggleston: everything.

644
01:25:01.420 --> 01:25:07.319
stephanfranck: Well, so I'll tell you when it comes to story. There's 2 levels. Also, there's the

645
01:25:08.070 --> 01:25:23.204
stephanfranck: there's the. And I guess it goes to actually is the same, you know another way. When I sorry when I was saying there's 2 parts to you know what we do, whether it's this or movies. But you know that it's the theater on the circus.

646
01:25:23.790 --> 01:25:28.110
stephanfranck: I think the circus comes very easy to me.

647
01:25:28.510 --> 01:25:31.620
stephanfranck: Okay, like there's I have

648
01:25:32.230 --> 01:25:42.010
stephanfranck: a head full of a hard drive, full of big, high concept ideas, you know, because every one of these books you're talking about there's a high concept between all of them right.

649
01:25:43.076 --> 01:25:43.793
stephanfranck: But

650
01:25:45.190 --> 01:25:50.750
stephanfranck: And I have those turning in my head for years and years, sometimes decades.

651
01:25:51.190 --> 01:25:57.029
stephanfranck: But I don't have the theater quite. I don't. In other words, I don't have my way in. I don't have the one

652
01:25:57.110 --> 01:26:25.599
stephanfranck: real sort of human way in that that makes me go like oh, I know what this is now, right? And so this whole for the all those time, those years that the stuff starting in my head it's starting to already starts to accrue a lot of visual ideas. Oh, it could look like this! Oh, she, you know this, you know so. But it's still missing that pilot light of what is this really about? Right? And so like for Palmino, for instance.

653
01:26:26.440 --> 01:26:30.653
stephanfranck: you know I we were

654
01:26:32.050 --> 01:26:46.969
stephanfranck: on a trip, and you know, my kid little youngest of my kids was graduating from school. And so it was like A, and my oldest was getting married. And so it was like a turning of the bit. Oh, like I guess I'm done with the parenting and stuff, and then

655
01:26:47.140 --> 01:26:53.479
stephanfranck: boom! It hit me because I for a year. I had been sort of

656
01:26:54.180 --> 01:26:56.560
stephanfranck: because there's a i mean, maybe I

657
01:26:56.970 --> 01:27:14.749
stephanfranck: told people maybe I told you before. I don't know like the like Palmino, has had, like a interesting story, because it was one of those ideas that I had in the back of my head for years and years and years and years, and it never had quite find my my way into it. And then

658
01:27:15.610 --> 01:27:18.909
stephanfranck: Bruce, Tim! Sorry, Tim sales.

659
01:27:19.590 --> 01:27:25.190
stephanfranck: Tim Sale wanted to wanted to do a book together, and he said, Hey, you know

660
01:27:26.870 --> 01:27:44.880
stephanfranck: will you write me a story like in war? Neon war story? Do you have anything like that. And it was like, yes, I have this thing. It's called Palomino. So I pitched him the high concept. It was like man dude. This is awesome. Let's do this. So we started down the road of Hey, let's do this thing together. And then

661
01:27:45.110 --> 01:27:49.085
stephanfranck: it was like, Okay, well, now, I have to. I have to write it and

662
01:27:50.540 --> 01:27:56.979
stephanfranck: and you know I I took me about a year during which I couldn't

663
01:27:57.250 --> 01:28:10.689
stephanfranck: find what it was. You know I was writing writing, and I wrote like 3 or 4 different takes, and every time since, like school. But it's that's not right. That's talk about not being pressured. That's not the right thing. That's not it. And then, of course.

664
01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:20.900
stephanfranck: just to finish that chapter, you know. Then he got he passed away, and then, you know, it was like, you know what? At this point I know what this is. I'm gonna enjoy it myself. But the point is.

665
01:28:22.750 --> 01:28:28.019
stephanfranck: the the thing was we were on that trip like I said, there was this this family sort of

666
01:28:28.440 --> 01:28:35.740
stephanfranck: page that was being turned, you know, in our family, and it was like, Oh, my God, he's got a daughter

667
01:28:36.440 --> 01:28:48.070
stephanfranck: like what? And I was like, yeah, he's got a daughter, and everybody like it was getting ready to go somewhere like visit some places. You guys go. I'm gonna stay in the hotel room, and I stayed in the hotel room this one morning and I wrote this one scene.

668
01:28:49.090 --> 01:28:53.869
stephanfranck: the and the the one scene ended up not being in the book.

669
01:28:55.260 --> 01:29:04.260
stephanfranck: but everything was in there like who he was was in there who she was, was in there, what their relationship specifically

670
01:29:05.310 --> 01:29:09.870
stephanfranck: in ways that I could not even articulate with words, but was in there.

671
01:29:10.050 --> 01:29:14.279
stephanfranck: and once I had that then then? Yes.

672
01:29:14.280 --> 01:29:24.470
Tad Eggleston: So what you're saying is, we have something to look forward to when you do the the Hardcover compendium edition of all 5 volumes, and have bonus material.

673
01:29:24.580 --> 01:29:25.490
Tad Eggleston: right?

674
01:29:28.010 --> 01:29:29.303
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, maybe.

675
01:29:29.950 --> 01:29:39.879
stephanfranck: That, you know. You know. Yeah, I think a lot of cool bonus, because I have a lot of questions about how I write my scripts

676
01:29:40.080 --> 01:29:45.270
stephanfranck: and my scripts are written like movie scripts.

677
01:29:45.520 --> 01:29:47.850
Tad Eggleston: Okay, they just tend to be.

678
01:29:48.120 --> 01:29:55.209
stephanfranck: A little bit more shorthanded than you typically would do a script if it was not for my own consumption and use here

679
01:29:56.170 --> 01:29:57.569
Tad Eggleston: So you do script first.st

680
01:29:57.830 --> 01:30:00.890
stephanfranck: I script first, st and and so I think at some point I'll I'll

681
01:30:01.070 --> 01:30:09.730
stephanfranck: just because there seems to be interest in seeing what that process is, I'll I'll share that as a as a sort of companion, or something like that. I think that's pretty cool.

682
01:30:09.730 --> 01:30:23.799
Tad Eggleston: I would be all over it. I mean, I love process. I love process. Part of the reason I love process is because there are so many different processes that work. There isn't 1 right way to make anything cool.

683
01:30:26.590 --> 01:30:31.335
Tad Eggleston: You're only anybody who tells you otherwise is selling something.

684
01:30:32.000 --> 01:30:38.049
stephanfranck: It's not, there's it's it has to come from honesty and truth. It just has to come from like

685
01:30:38.170 --> 01:30:38.980
stephanfranck: not

686
01:30:39.700 --> 01:30:56.839
stephanfranck: pretend trying to hit, for, like, you know. Oh, they're they're gonna love this, or they're gonna love that, or you know. No, you just just do whatever you you're you, not even what you're thinking, because it's not about thinking. It's just whatever feels like. It's it's just being present for it and letting it happen, you know.

687
01:30:58.330 --> 01:31:07.370
stephanfranck: But you know what's funny is like at the moment, I mean, I should stay away from non announcement announcements. But we're working on

688
01:31:08.100 --> 01:31:17.479
stephanfranck: an adaptation well, for a lot of the different projects, by the way, but but specifically for for Palmino

689
01:31:18.190 --> 01:31:19.970
stephanfranck: and

690
01:31:22.137 --> 01:31:28.939
stephanfranck: no one's been announced officially. So I'm not gonna drop their name them on the spot. But but

691
01:31:29.290 --> 01:31:32.010
stephanfranck: I brought in a

692
01:31:32.960 --> 01:31:36.800
stephanfranck: We brought in a a great writer

693
01:31:37.070 --> 01:32:00.739
stephanfranck: of TV shows to work together. And just, you know, work on the adaptation and stuff like that. And the 1st scene when they was like, Hey, man, I wrote this thing. I hope you don't mind. It's it's it's a new scene that's like, see if you like it, to open the show. And what you wrote was the exact same thing that I wrote in that hotel room years ago.

694
01:32:00.740 --> 01:32:01.160
Tad Eggleston: I love it.

695
01:32:01.160 --> 01:32:03.299
stephanfranck: Yes, we are.

696
01:32:03.300 --> 01:32:03.909
Tad Eggleston: I love it.

697
01:32:03.910 --> 01:32:04.750
stephanfranck: Think.

698
01:32:05.010 --> 01:32:05.990
Tad Eggleston: I love it.

699
01:32:06.240 --> 01:32:35.129
Tad Eggleston: I love it, and I look forward to hearing more about that as it goes. So so there are 3 volumes of Palomino right now. We gushed over it so much last time. We don't need to get into details, details, but it's it's a couple of different murder mysteries and and music, and growing up in La, and trying to be a single parent of a teenager, and and also a very broken person.

700
01:32:35.550 --> 01:32:41.719
Tad Eggleston: because of well, life, and the reason that you're a single parent and all of that stuff.

701
01:32:42.386 --> 01:32:51.509
Tad Eggleston: It's messy in all the best possible ways. It's beautiful, your I know. I went over over the

702
01:32:51.890 --> 01:32:55.719
Tad Eggleston: moon the last time on like I can feel the music.

703
01:32:56.010 --> 01:33:19.660
Tad Eggleston: You know the songs that I don't know I can. I can hear them in my head, anyway, you know I haven't even had the the heart to go. Listen to them yet. You know the 2, the the 2 early on where you you give us what they are. I haven't been able to go. Listen to them yet, because I'm like, what if they're not as good as what I heard. I don't want to mess with what I heard.

704
01:33:20.570 --> 01:33:36.080
Tad Eggleston: I mean. Obviously I could go. That was the cover that was being done so, I mean, that's the beauty of a cover version is, you can take a song sometimes. It's not even a very good song, and turn it into a great song, or take a great song and turn it into a different great song.

705
01:33:37.970 --> 01:33:48.249
Tad Eggleston: Johnny, I I thank Rick Rubin regularly for for writing. Johnny Cash's like last chapter. And and

706
01:33:48.710 --> 01:33:51.620
Tad Eggleston: have you ever heard him talk about that.

707
01:33:52.828 --> 01:33:59.469
stephanfranck: Think I have, remember, like a specific point of it. So if you, if you have a.

708
01:33:59.470 --> 01:34:08.409
Tad Eggleston: No, no, I just. I feel like I don't know all the details, but but I don't remember all the details. I feel like I heard him talk about it

709
01:34:09.130 --> 01:34:20.049
Tad Eggleston: with Marc Maron and some other Podcast that I went and found just because the Marc Maron, Rick Rubin. Conversation was so interesting like. I need to hear more, Rick Rubin talking, but it was like

710
01:34:20.180 --> 01:34:29.879
Tad Eggleston: he'd just show up at Johnny Cash's house every day and give him a new song half the time. Cash didn't even like listen to the old version he'd he'd give him like the words, and.

711
01:34:30.300 --> 01:34:30.950
stephanfranck: Same.

712
01:34:30.950 --> 01:34:33.679
Tad Eggleston: The cords, and they just start messing with it.

713
01:34:33.680 --> 01:34:34.639
Tad Eggleston: That's you know.

714
01:34:34.640 --> 01:34:40.020
Tad Eggleston: Cash trusted him so implicitly at that point that, like they just

715
01:34:40.190 --> 01:34:47.300
Tad Eggleston: and cash was already slowing down, and whatnot so it was like, Show up! Do the work that he had the energy to do, say goodbye.

716
01:34:47.580 --> 01:34:47.910
stephanfranck: Yes.

717
01:34:47.910 --> 01:34:49.090
Tad Eggleston: You know, but.

718
01:34:49.090 --> 01:34:52.179
stephanfranck: It's a really transcendental album, you know.

719
01:34:52.430 --> 01:34:54.610
Tad Eggleston: All of them, all of them

720
01:34:54.850 --> 01:34:59.319
Tad Eggleston: right, I mean, because because they did what I think there are

721
01:35:00.050 --> 01:35:04.159
Tad Eggleston: 6 albums worth of official American recordings.

722
01:35:04.160 --> 01:35:05.580
stephanfranck: I did not even realize it.

723
01:35:05.830 --> 01:35:11.040
Tad Eggleston: And and then a 4 CD. Box set of like.

724
01:35:11.210 --> 01:35:19.329
Tad Eggleston: Not quite the outtakes, just the things that they'd recorded that hadn't been put on albums yet. I mean, there's a.

725
01:35:19.330 --> 01:35:19.719
stephanfranck: There's a

726
01:35:20.350 --> 01:35:26.209
stephanfranck: that's I'm thinking about hurt. And I'm thinking of the men comes around and that kind of stuff. Yeah.

727
01:35:26.210 --> 01:35:29.840
Tad Eggleston: That was. Those were both on the 4th American

728
01:35:31.250 --> 01:35:35.160
Tad Eggleston: Recordings album when the man comes around was the name of that one.

729
01:35:35.330 --> 01:35:40.702
Tad Eggleston: but he'd already covered Soundgarden. He'd already covered Tom Petty.

730
01:35:41.240 --> 01:35:41.949
stephanfranck: That's incredible.

731
01:35:41.950 --> 01:35:45.710
Tad Eggleston: He'd covered depeche mode personal Jesus.

732
01:35:47.243 --> 01:35:55.110
Tad Eggleston: And like, I mean, if you're thinking, man comes around like that, that has one of the examples of

733
01:35:56.060 --> 01:36:04.959
Tad Eggleston: a song that I think, is a bad song from a great artist, that a great artist turned into a good song. Have you ever heard the original sting version of. I hung my head.

734
01:36:05.420 --> 01:36:05.980
stephanfranck: No.

735
01:36:06.590 --> 01:36:13.210
Tad Eggleston: The sting version is to me it's discordant because I hung my head is such a

736
01:36:16.800 --> 01:36:23.909
Tad Eggleston: saw, I mean cash. Just it fills it with remorse, fills it with introspection.

737
01:36:24.070 --> 01:36:24.869
stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah.

738
01:36:25.020 --> 01:36:26.770
Tad Eggleston: And stings is like

739
01:36:31.230 --> 01:36:33.200
Tad Eggleston: eighties.

740
01:36:33.870 --> 01:36:36.830
Tad Eggleston: I'm going to send an Sos. To the world.

741
01:36:37.080 --> 01:36:37.460
stephanfranck: We.

742
01:36:37.460 --> 01:36:39.960
Tad Eggleston: Which again, is kind of discordant, but

743
01:36:40.210 --> 01:36:44.649
Tad Eggleston: because, you know, that's a poppy dance song about sending an Sos.

744
01:36:45.580 --> 01:36:49.059
Tad Eggleston: But like it works even less when it's about

745
01:36:50.110 --> 01:36:53.999
Tad Eggleston: borrowing your brother's rifle and shooting somebody.

746
01:36:55.550 --> 01:37:00.510
stephanfranck: Yeah, I mean, like to me, it sounds like, you know, you know, there

747
01:37:00.730 --> 01:37:16.659
stephanfranck: the the Johnny cash version. They're they're so reflective and that it has to be signed by a man at the end of his life who's looking back on and taking responsibility for for his, his life, you know.

748
01:37:17.480 --> 01:37:18.200
stephanfranck: Yeah.

749
01:37:18.630 --> 01:37:19.479
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Go ahead.

750
01:37:19.790 --> 01:37:20.500
stephanfranck: No, no, no.

751
01:37:21.250 --> 01:37:21.959
Tad Eggleston: I have

752
01:37:21.960 --> 01:37:31.600
Tad Eggleston: listened to it in a while, but I used to to spend a lot of spare time scouring the Internet for live bootleg recordings, and I have.

753
01:37:32.070 --> 01:37:43.020
Tad Eggleston: I have the one live performance that Johnny did between June's death and his death, and it's both

754
01:37:43.640 --> 01:37:45.730
Tad Eggleston: amazing and haunting.

755
01:37:45.900 --> 01:38:04.340
stephanfranck: Yeah, behind the scenes. Kind of tip, you know, like a secret in. I think it's in at the end of the second volume of Palmino. You know, when when Jarvis shows up, you know the PAL to

756
01:38:06.290 --> 01:38:09.090
stephanfranck: we'll go sherry Joe, originally.

757
01:38:09.430 --> 01:38:12.650
stephanfranck: he was starting the set, or he was ending the set.

758
01:38:12.850 --> 01:38:21.372
stephanfranck: Yeah, he would go chair, Joe, and then he would say, Now I'm gonna do something a little bit different. And he had this song that

759
01:38:22.480 --> 01:38:27.140
stephanfranck: that I wrote for the you know, that was basically a version of heart.

760
01:38:27.630 --> 01:38:28.800
Tad Eggleston: Oh, nice!

761
01:38:29.110 --> 01:38:37.019
stephanfranck: It was. That was his version of Hertz, and I did it, and I. And then.

762
01:38:37.230 --> 01:38:42.049
stephanfranck: as again, as I was laying it out, and I realized that

763
01:38:42.270 --> 01:38:51.040
stephanfranck: the story didn't want that. The story didn't need that. It was not necessary. But so see, talk about that kind of goes to your earlier question.

764
01:38:51.450 --> 01:38:53.560
stephanfranck: Only you know sometimes.

765
01:38:53.560 --> 01:39:02.540
Tad Eggleston: I mean, because the way you do end, and I love the way you end here, because he tells her to pick one, and she immediately goes full on Hendrix.

766
01:39:02.540 --> 01:39:03.110
stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah.

767
01:39:03.310 --> 01:39:11.219
Tad Eggleston: It's like Dylan going electric, you know it. It makes you realize how very

768
01:39:13.020 --> 01:39:23.680
Tad Eggleston: and and and you managed to to write sherry in a way or Sherry Joe, in a way that that definitely inspired.

769
01:39:23.840 --> 01:39:52.359
Tad Eggleston: you know, even before we get to the to the next book, and these books have been out long enough that I'm not going to be upset if I spoil them a little bit. This is the spoiler alert for anybody who hasn't read Palomino, who doesn't want spoilers. Pause your pause, your recording. Go buy them and read them because they're amazing, and he's got the end of the story coming out soon, but you can hear Chuck Berry even before you. You learn later that he stole it from a black

770
01:39:52.700 --> 01:39:54.360
Tad Eggleston: singer songwriter.

771
01:39:56.120 --> 01:39:57.990
Tad Eggleston: So like

772
01:39:59.590 --> 01:40:10.159
Tad Eggleston: that last page is like, Okay, you did what rock and roll was. I'm going to show you what rock and roll is, Dad.

773
01:40:10.600 --> 01:40:14.130
Tad Eggleston: you know, with the the the

774
01:40:14.260 --> 01:40:40.900
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I never got to see Jimmy. But there, almost every pearl jam concert I've been to. There will be a point where Mike Mccready has the guitar up on his shoulder behind his head, and that's never, ever anything but ridiculous. I mean always, always blows my mind that that, like his most ridiculous solo is the one where he can't see what he's doing.

775
01:40:41.360 --> 01:40:51.189
Tad Eggleston: and it's never quite the same. It's like it's like, how did that become the pose where rock and roll guitarists jam the best.

776
01:40:51.190 --> 01:41:07.935
stephanfranck: And you know, and it started with the the whole. You know rockabilly thing, which is, you know what is doing. You know where you know you climb on the the upright base, and you do the thing. And you know those those goofy tricks, but that you know and

777
01:41:08.940 --> 01:41:13.650
stephanfranck: and you know. And it's it's really, it's really interesting, because you can read it

778
01:41:14.760 --> 01:41:23.859
stephanfranck: in different ways. You can read it as she's like, oh, yeah, let's fucking. Do this, you know, or just the fact that is she trying to

779
01:41:25.310 --> 01:41:27.649
stephanfranck: or or does she just like?

780
01:41:28.050 --> 01:41:45.359
stephanfranck: Is is this a way for her to accept to like. All right. I'm putting once I'm once I'm going, you know, beyond, above and beyond. It's in a way she she forgave him. She's like right? It's just like, Hey, okay? I mean, I mean, you know, or is this.

781
01:41:45.360 --> 01:42:00.039
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, I can. I can see elements of that. And, like you play with that in the next volume. She hasn't really forgiven him, but she's in I mean, the way I read it on those final pages is always a mixture of

782
01:42:00.210 --> 01:42:05.290
Tad Eggleston: showing off for Dad fuck. You see, if you can keep up.

783
01:42:06.015 --> 01:42:11.154
Tad Eggleston: You think you think you're all that, see if you can keep up.

784
01:42:12.300 --> 01:42:14.329
Tad Eggleston: And and just like

785
01:42:14.480 --> 01:42:20.480
Tad Eggleston: all right, he's giving me this chance to shine even more than I normally do. I'm gonna I'm gonna give.

786
01:42:21.230 --> 01:42:21.770
stephanfranck: Yeah.

787
01:42:21.770 --> 01:42:22.870
Tad Eggleston: You know, because.

788
01:42:23.090 --> 01:42:24.689
stephanfranck: She bites, you know. I'll.

789
01:42:24.690 --> 01:42:26.500
Tad Eggleston: Right, right, right.

790
01:42:26.730 --> 01:42:38.650
stephanfranck: And you know it's something you said early on that I never heard said, and I really like to is when you said. Palmino, is deliciously messy.

791
01:42:38.940 --> 01:42:40.300
Tad Eggleston: Yes.

792
01:42:40.300 --> 01:42:40.650
stephanfranck: That's be.

793
01:42:40.650 --> 01:42:45.789
Tad Eggleston: My new favorite term for most of my favorite works. Life isn't clean.

794
01:42:46.060 --> 01:42:46.480
stephanfranck: Yeah.

795
01:42:46.480 --> 01:42:52.599
Tad Eggleston: Like like don't get me wrong. I can appreciate something that doesn't have stuff that that

796
01:42:53.560 --> 01:42:58.800
Tad Eggleston: like like where the only parts of the story, you see, are the story. But how often in life.

797
01:42:59.050 --> 01:43:15.449
Tad Eggleston: even if you said, Okay, this is the story of the making of Palomino. And you stuck to just telling the story of the making of Palomino, but in reality your kid might have gotten sick for a while. Another kid might have lost their job your your wife might have.

798
01:43:16.820 --> 01:43:25.830
Tad Eggleston: I mean, you had other things going on in your life. No story, no, no plot line doesn't have

799
01:43:26.440 --> 01:43:33.029
Tad Eggleston: things that aren't actually related to the plot, except that they are related to the characters.

800
01:43:33.030 --> 01:43:34.140
stephanfranck: That's right. That's right.

801
01:43:35.030 --> 01:43:35.870
stephanfranck: That's right.

802
01:43:35.870 --> 01:43:48.329
Tad Eggleston: And more and more. I love the fiction that is messy enough to go. Yes, this doesn't matter to the plot, except that it does matter to the character and the character matters to the plot.

803
01:43:48.910 --> 01:43:49.610
stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah.

804
01:43:50.787 --> 01:43:56.160
Tad Eggleston: And that's that's something that that I I think I noticed it before. But

805
01:43:56.640 --> 01:44:15.239
Tad Eggleston: I've become more aware, really, in the last year of how my favorite fiction has that. So? I think the last time it was probably something that I knew and didn't have words for yet, and that's the phrase that I've come up with, for my favorite art is messy in the most beautiful way, which is.

806
01:44:17.360 --> 01:44:20.689
Tad Eggleston: it's not all about advancing the plot. It's about.

807
01:44:20.960 --> 01:44:21.510
stephanfranck: Right.

808
01:44:21.920 --> 01:44:25.479
Tad Eggleston: Building real characters who are part of something.

809
01:44:27.250 --> 01:44:35.669
Tad Eggleston: and it's why I asked off air the spoiler question, because I just needed to know my Psyche couldn't, couldn't handle having to wait.

810
01:44:37.000 --> 01:44:43.509
Tad Eggleston: We won't spoil it for anybody else. We won't even spoil spoil what the question was for anybody else. But it's like.

811
01:44:44.380 --> 01:44:55.619
Tad Eggleston: read it again. I'm I'd like I had forgotten that last scene, and I'm pretty certain that my brain had deliberately just blocked it out, because otherwise I would have been dwelling on it all here.

812
01:44:56.310 --> 01:45:19.940
stephanfranck: Yeah, so that will be answered soon. So, as you said, like those 3 volumes already available 4 and 5, we're going to do. Those are done. We're finishing colors on on 5, but it's almost done. And so we're going to do very soon. The Kickstarter for Volume 4 and Volume 5 and the final.

813
01:45:19.940 --> 01:45:20.650
Tad Eggleston: Together.

814
01:45:21.180 --> 01:45:25.490
stephanfranck: Together at the same time, like we did 2 and 3 at the same time.

815
01:45:26.890 --> 01:45:28.979
Tad Eggleston: See, I jumped on board after the 3 were out.

816
01:45:28.980 --> 01:45:29.959
Tad Eggleston: How it took, how long

817
01:45:29.960 --> 01:45:38.400
Tad Eggleston: to tell me you got to read this guy, Stephan, Frank, and I'm like never heard of him. But Howard, shaken, is telling me to read him, so I will.

818
01:45:38.820 --> 01:45:43.140
stephanfranck: Yes, yes. Well, thank you. Howard.

819
01:45:44.580 --> 01:45:59.029
Tad Eggleston: Laugh a little, because because he he 1st told me that there were no good comics being made anymore. And then he made a recommendation of a new comic that I hadn't even heard of. I'm like, well, wait a minute, Howard. Which is it? Are there no good comics.

820
01:45:59.030 --> 01:45:59.940
stephanfranck: Just this one.

821
01:46:01.090 --> 01:46:09.110
stephanfranck: That's fine. Yeah. But but the thing I was gonna say is, then there's a final volume which is going to be Volume 6, and that one.

822
01:46:09.110 --> 01:46:09.519
Tad Eggleston: So it's going to.

823
01:46:09.520 --> 01:46:19.569
stephanfranck: Is already all well, because here's the thing right like when I got to Volume 3. Well, first, st I thought it was going to be a 4 volume story.

824
01:46:19.750 --> 01:46:21.200
stephanfranck: and then I get to the.

825
01:46:21.200 --> 01:46:23.229
Tad Eggleston: Time I talked to you. You knew it was 5.

826
01:46:24.020 --> 01:46:26.670
stephanfranck: And then he got 6, and now it's 6.

827
01:46:26.670 --> 01:46:31.315
Tad Eggleston: So it's so it's really gonna be 12, and that's cool with me. I'm totally totally happy with that.

828
01:46:32.131 --> 01:46:37.289
stephanfranck: Well, yes, but this is why, when I started

829
01:46:37.390 --> 01:46:49.670
stephanfranck: and so post 3, I was just like, Okay, I need to write all this all the way to the end, because all the puzzle pieces have to come together. I cannot just wing this shit. I gotta really lend it, you know.

830
01:46:49.920 --> 01:46:50.450
Tad Eggleston: Right.

831
01:46:50.450 --> 01:47:08.089
stephanfranck: The way, that is everything you want it to be. And so so that became 4, 5, 6. So I wrote the whole thing. I laid out the whole thing. And now we finished 4 and 5. So we're gonna release those. But 6 is already is already all laid out and roughed out.

832
01:47:08.090 --> 01:47:10.450
Tad Eggleston: Okay, I can't wait.

833
01:47:10.630 --> 01:47:13.639
Tad Eggleston: I can't wait and and

834
01:47:15.230 --> 01:47:25.904
Tad Eggleston: you know, and and you're welcome back to plug it when it goes live for for that matter, I can. We have a we call it the pulp blotter

835
01:47:26.770 --> 01:47:32.219
Tad Eggleston: Chicago play playwright. Mark Pratt and I get together once a month, and we we talk about

836
01:47:32.600 --> 01:47:40.609
Tad Eggleston: generally a noir comic, but or crime comic, but but we call it the pulp lotter, so that we could do things like adventure comics or

837
01:47:40.920 --> 01:47:45.240
Tad Eggleston: or sci-fi, you know, and anything that would fall into the old pulp.

838
01:47:45.530 --> 01:47:46.090
stephanfranck: Yeah.

839
01:47:46.374 --> 01:47:49.499
Tad Eggleston: And Palomino has actually been one that's been on our radar

840
01:47:49.770 --> 01:48:01.289
Tad Eggleston: since before we actually had the show. Because he's a big fan of silver. You you came up when we were in a different conversation, and I think he's been meaning to read Palomino, so like

841
01:48:01.460 --> 01:48:17.219
Tad Eggleston: closer, closer to your Kickstarter starting, or or during the Kickstarter, I might twist his arm and make certain that he's red palomino, and then have a new set of questions for you, because it'll be somebody else. I mean I'll be there. But you know what I mean.

842
01:48:19.030 --> 01:48:26.973
Tad Eggleston: Yes, Stefan, it's always fun. I gotta ask. The the my, my required final question.

843
01:48:27.740 --> 01:48:38.909
Tad Eggleston: And and since last time you gave me the fantastic Billy Spring, Billy Strings, not Springs Strings music recommendation as well. I'm gonna I'm gonna for you.

844
01:48:38.910 --> 01:48:43.670
Tad Eggleston: I'm gonna pretty cool, he is. I'm going to require a music recommendation.

845
01:48:44.880 --> 01:48:49.469
Tad Eggleston: But but the the final question is, always tell me

846
01:48:49.640 --> 01:48:52.339
Tad Eggleston: something you love, preferably a comic

847
01:48:52.470 --> 01:49:00.096
Tad Eggleston: and and you can give me multiple recommendations. So so I want a music recommendation. But if you've got a comic recommendation or movie recommendation whatever.

848
01:49:00.590 --> 01:49:05.449
Tad Eggleston: something you love, preferably a comic that not enough other people know.

849
01:49:05.590 --> 01:49:09.489
Tad Eggleston: and you need them to. So you have more people to talk to them about it.

850
01:49:11.370 --> 01:49:20.700
stephanfranck: Okay? Well, I mean, I have to. There's 1 book that I really really loved.

851
01:49:22.390 --> 01:49:27.149
stephanfranck: This year. It's the batman. 1st night. The Mike Perkins.

852
01:49:28.500 --> 01:49:30.479
stephanfranck: Okay. You know the city.

853
01:49:30.930 --> 01:49:32.649
Tad Eggleston: Is that the.

854
01:49:34.870 --> 01:49:39.489
stephanfranck: I've been right here that there were. There were 2 that.

855
01:49:40.740 --> 01:49:41.940
Tad Eggleston: Came out.

856
01:49:42.560 --> 01:49:47.039
Tad Eggleston: Okay, yes, that one. We we did that one on the pulp blotter. Mark and I

857
01:49:48.250 --> 01:49:50.699
Tad Eggleston: did an episode on that.

858
01:49:50.700 --> 01:49:53.569
stephanfranck: This this is, it's it's master work

859
01:49:54.950 --> 01:49:59.459
stephanfranck: And you know I love Mike. always love Mike

860
01:50:00.580 --> 01:50:08.467
stephanfranck: both artistically and as a person. But man, this book is just just incredible.

861
01:50:09.150 --> 01:50:13.209
stephanfranck: and okay, so things that people

862
01:50:13.310 --> 01:50:17.098
stephanfranck: should know about more in comics.

863
01:50:20.473 --> 01:50:24.136
stephanfranck: there's so much I don't wanna

864
01:50:24.660 --> 01:50:26.039
Tad Eggleston: As many as you want.

865
01:50:26.770 --> 01:50:39.890
stephanfranck: Well, okay. So let's go from the I'm gonna so here's something that I've I've always loved Darwin cook.

866
01:50:40.570 --> 01:50:41.300
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

867
01:50:41.550 --> 01:50:47.540
stephanfranck: But for some reason Darwin had never read his catwoman.

868
01:50:48.500 --> 01:50:50.950
Tad Eggleston: Oh, with Brubaker.

869
01:50:50.950 --> 01:51:06.930
stephanfranck: For absolutely no other reason that I don't know why it just hadn't happened. And so the other day I was at the at the comic shop and and I see, you know, because they have those Mini editions that I really really love. You know.

870
01:51:06.930 --> 01:51:08.240
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, they're nice.

871
01:51:08.240 --> 01:51:12.320
stephanfranck: Before. My school reminds me, like some of the mini comics I had in France when.

872
01:51:12.320 --> 01:51:13.540
stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

873
01:51:14.049 --> 01:51:23.219
stephanfranck: Grabbed it. And and it's it's it's everything you expect and want it to be. It's it's wonderful.

874
01:51:24.850 --> 01:51:25.650
Tad Eggleston: Go ahead!

875
01:51:25.650 --> 01:51:33.619
stephanfranck: No, I was just gonna say, because I had missed it for some reason before, I can only assume maybe other people missed it too. So if they have.

876
01:51:33.620 --> 01:51:41.450
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, I was. I was about to say that. I think that because

877
01:51:43.080 --> 01:51:51.600
Tad Eggleston: Ed Brubaker went on to do all sorts of stuff with Sean Phillips, and because Darwin Cook went on to do

878
01:51:52.780 --> 01:51:58.240
Tad Eggleston: new Frontier and the Parker novels on his own.

879
01:51:58.500 --> 01:51:58.920
stephanfranck: Right.

880
01:51:59.140 --> 01:52:04.870
Tad Eggleston: This gets overlooked by both brew, baker and cook fans.

881
01:52:04.870 --> 01:52:05.480
stephanfranck: Right.

882
01:52:05.840 --> 01:52:09.849
Tad Eggleston: Because the cook fans don't always.

883
01:52:10.890 --> 01:52:16.254
Tad Eggleston: I mean, it looks like the most recent volume has Darwin Cook's name first, st which is good

884
01:52:17.240 --> 01:52:26.159
Tad Eggleston: but but a lot of the previous versions have had Brubaker's name first, st so I think the cook fans wind up, not seeing it, and a lot of the Brubaker fans.

885
01:52:26.390 --> 01:52:37.469
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I love all Ed Brubaker's stuff, but he is absolutely better with Sean Phillips than anybody else he works with. They. There's a reason that they've been a partnership forever.

886
01:52:37.470 --> 01:52:39.979
stephanfranck: It's an amazing, you know.

887
01:52:39.980 --> 01:52:47.109
Tad Eggleston: So if I see Brubaker's name, and don't immediately see Phillips, it's not as as Oh, I must grab this.

888
01:52:47.110 --> 01:52:47.630
stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah.

889
01:52:47.630 --> 01:52:52.739
Tad Eggleston: That's my theory, at least on on. Why, it's slightly less.

890
01:52:52.740 --> 01:52:58.089
stephanfranck: Well, for whatever reason, if you, if you like me, had somehow.

891
01:52:58.260 --> 01:52:58.930
Tad Eggleston: Right.

892
01:52:58.930 --> 01:52:59.420
stephanfranck: Never.

893
01:52:59.420 --> 01:53:00.700
Tad Eggleston: It is. It's so good.

894
01:53:00.890 --> 01:53:04.399
stephanfranck: Book. It's it's a good, it's a really great one.

895
01:53:06.780 --> 01:53:09.290
stephanfranck: you know. And then then there's there's

896
01:53:10.985 --> 01:53:14.464
stephanfranck: what else is there a lot, you know?

897
01:53:14.900 --> 01:53:15.550
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

898
01:53:19.850 --> 01:53:28.169
Tad Eggleston: it's okay. You don't have to come up with more. I get it. We have whole episodes where sometimes we just rattle off stuff.

899
01:53:28.170 --> 01:53:35.292
stephanfranck: We love. They're fairly mainstream. Okay. So I'm gonna all right. So

900
01:53:37.020 --> 01:53:46.150
stephanfranck: because I'm assuming we're speaking to a mostly American audience, I'm going to encourage them

901
01:53:46.770 --> 01:53:50.570
stephanfranck: to explore some European stuff.

902
01:53:52.330 --> 01:54:05.589
stephanfranck: And for whoever hasn't read at least one Hugo Pratt book, I would say it's

903
01:54:06.080 --> 01:54:09.099
stephanfranck: you know, if you like, you know, if people

904
01:54:09.600 --> 01:54:19.569
stephanfranck: like, and I'm assuming most people that listen to you probably already know this so, but for whoever you know, for whatever reason missed it. You know you go. Of course you know.

905
01:54:20.280 --> 01:54:27.880
stephanfranck: Great author of the sixties, seventies, eighties, you know. Right French, Italian.

906
01:54:27.880 --> 01:54:32.180
Tad Eggleston: Porto Maltese. He did a lot of stuff in 2,000 Ad.

907
01:54:32.310 --> 01:54:33.640
stephanfranck: Right.

908
01:54:33.640 --> 01:54:49.350
stephanfranck: And so, you know, in American comics, if if what you like is people who have this sort of sense of stylization and almost a shorthand with their dreams, like people like Rizzo, like Mignola to some extent.

909
01:54:50.540 --> 01:54:56.079
stephanfranck: You know that that sort of light touch, you know.

910
01:54:56.250 --> 01:55:15.100
stephanfranck: Tim Sale, or you know. So it's not as anatomically heavy as some of the other stuff, but there's more of a sense of of design to it, and like a a lightness to it. Darwin cook. you know, I think a lot of that stuff.

911
01:55:15.710 --> 01:55:25.537
stephanfranck: maybe not directly inspired by Pratt, but definitely comes from the same place of inspiration. So

912
01:55:26.400 --> 01:55:50.060
stephanfranck: So if you like that, so there's such an ease to his drawing, or you know, and what's what's funny is like, when I was a kid. I was just telling this to somebody else yesterday when I was a kid. I didn't really couldn't really read Hugo Pratt's just because his stories didn't quite speak to me, or whatever for whatever reason it was maybe just a little bit too sophisticated for my

913
01:55:50.600 --> 01:55:52.230
stephanfranck: young taste.

914
01:55:52.953 --> 01:55:53.980
stephanfranck: But now

915
01:55:54.100 --> 01:56:12.579
stephanfranck: I'm like, Oh, I see what he's doing. And, weirdly enough, I also I feel like, especially with Palm. You know, the type of brushes that I'm using, and stuff like that ended up in a place that is somehow coming from the same place, you know. And so.

916
01:56:13.090 --> 01:56:17.480
stephanfranck: if you don't know Hugo Pratt. You need to have at least one book by him.

917
01:56:17.870 --> 01:56:20.030
stephanfranck: It's it's pretty amazing.

918
01:56:20.430 --> 01:56:26.660
Tad Eggleston: And I will say that he's criminally under

919
01:56:26.940 --> 01:56:31.039
Tad Eggleston: translated into English. It's not as easy to find

920
01:56:31.390 --> 01:56:48.679
Tad Eggleston: his stuff as I would like Cordo Maltese, I know, was done, but is out of print. I've heard here and there that it might come back into print. I think they finally put out a digital edition of some of it. I don't remember what else.

921
01:56:48.680 --> 01:56:52.559
stephanfranck: There has to be European editions that are still in print, that people can get.

922
01:56:52.560 --> 01:56:58.740
Tad Eggleston: Oh, no! Get getting getting. The art is easy.

923
01:56:58.760 --> 01:56:59.799
stephanfranck: Oh, I see!

924
01:56:59.800 --> 01:57:10.279
Tad Eggleston: If you don't read other. If you don't read languages be other than English, it becomes more common. You know this is where I remind people. And I do this sometimes that, like

925
01:57:10.780 --> 01:57:27.809
Tad Eggleston: Google, translate has upped its game. And it does have a camera function. So you can just hold your phone over the text as you're reading. I've been known to do that from time to time. Hugo Pratt is is amazing. Do you have a favorite Hugo Pratt? Work.

926
01:57:29.070 --> 01:57:39.869
stephanfranck: There's there's a you know. It's it's like with artists who have long runs. You know. There's a moment where the the style is like the

927
01:57:39.870 --> 01:57:59.540
stephanfranck: early kind of cruder version of it. Then it finds like its thing, and then it becomes at some point you can see they're getting tired with it, and it becomes a little too abstract. So like just any like the somewhere in the middle of the Hugo part adventures and they're all kind of self-contained, although some characters like the ones with Rasputin, and whatever you know

928
01:57:59.540 --> 01:58:10.629
stephanfranck: just of the Corto Maltese adventures, I mean. so can you any of those books in the like one called? There's the one called the Celtics, one called.

929
01:58:10.630 --> 01:58:11.240
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that's.

930
01:58:11.240 --> 01:58:11.640
stephanfranck: 19.

931
01:58:11.640 --> 01:58:18.109
Tad Eggleston: I was about to. I was about to suggest that because that's like his 5th book in is called The Celts.

932
01:58:18.110 --> 01:58:18.630
stephanfranck: Right.

933
01:58:18.630 --> 01:58:20.809
Tad Eggleston: And a midwinter's morning dream.

934
01:58:21.180 --> 01:58:24.620
Tad Eggleston: And those are 70, 71 and 72. And

935
01:58:24.620 --> 01:58:29.540
Tad Eggleston: yeah, so to me, that's the any anything from the seventies. Early eighties, you know.

936
01:58:29.540 --> 01:58:30.370
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

937
01:58:30.809 --> 01:58:46.430
stephanfranck: There's yeah, you'll see. And it's, you know, if people fall in love with it, then they can do the thing. But just go to the middle of the run. This is where you'll find, I think, his style at the most mature, and not quite over it yet. You know what I mean.

938
01:58:48.470 --> 01:58:57.899
Tad Eggleston: I mean, the art is is amazing. Again, I haven't read enough yet. There is an official cordo Maltese website.

939
01:58:58.400 --> 01:59:09.820
stephanfranck: As if you don't know the books card of Maltese, which is his main character. That's what the island is called, you know, and the Dark Knight returns. You know

940
01:59:09.980 --> 01:59:15.710
stephanfranck: that the nuclear war starts over right. That's that's based, of course, on on.

941
01:59:16.130 --> 01:59:16.960
Tad Eggleston: Right.

942
01:59:17.350 --> 01:59:17.750
stephanfranck: Thank you.

943
01:59:18.600 --> 01:59:25.629
Tad Eggleston: Okay, give me give me a music recommendation, too, because because you you gave good recommendations last time.

944
01:59:26.166 --> 01:59:29.339
stephanfranck: I can't, really. You know, there's somebody I

945
01:59:29.600 --> 01:59:32.040
stephanfranck: well, I'm gonna go super obscure.

946
01:59:32.580 --> 01:59:34.569
Tad Eggleston: I like scooper obscure.

947
01:59:34.570 --> 01:59:41.080
stephanfranck: Okay. So because of PAL Nino, you know, we're gonna stay in the world of California, Honky Tonks.

948
01:59:42.500 --> 01:59:51.527
stephanfranck: And there's there was like a guy who's a fixture here, you know. It was before my time. Sort of you know.

949
01:59:53.710 --> 01:59:59.520
stephanfranck: a guy called Chris Gaffney was just amazing. Amazing

950
01:59:59.640 --> 02:00:25.129
stephanfranck: singer, you know, just a just a just a working musician in clubs and stuff, you know, played all the clubs in in La. And and you know, toured a lot and stuff like that. He had this cool band, the guy playing steel guitar in it was a guy whose name escapes me right now, but who plays the steel guitar on the Spongebob Squarepants? Kind of, you know, like, you know. Right

951
02:00:25.340 --> 02:00:31.040
stephanfranck: team song. But but regard. But Chris Gaffney was just this amazing

952
02:00:31.430 --> 02:00:48.530
stephanfranck: guy who's, you know, like a real, you know, he worked as a dog worker or something like that in Long Beach or this stuff like that. But but you know also a musician for years and years in all the clubs around here. He could go from

953
02:00:48.640 --> 02:01:11.630
stephanfranck: Well and Jennings to like blue eyed soul, you know, and everything in the middle. And the guy was just fucking awesome. And and then somewhere in the early 2 thousands I want to say he. He had this band called the Hacienda Brothers, and did like 2 or 3 albums, and they were pretty successful. I think there was an interview of them

954
02:01:11.960 --> 02:01:14.940
stephanfranck: on fresh air, you know, back in the hey, you know.

955
02:01:15.180 --> 02:01:19.374
stephanfranck: And so that was a really really cool band.

956
02:01:20.290 --> 02:01:32.789
stephanfranck: very. And it was really a band like in the studio. It's the touring band. It's just a group of guys just touring around in a van, right? And like the records, is them playing, you know.

957
02:01:33.920 --> 02:01:37.140
stephanfranck: And those records are just amazing.

958
02:01:39.380 --> 02:01:40.630
stephanfranck: And.

959
02:01:41.240 --> 02:01:46.949
Tad Eggleston: Like. They recently put out a collection of unreleased stuff.

960
02:01:46.950 --> 02:01:57.210
stephanfranck: And just the the sadly he passed away just as the band was taking off, and it felt like, you know, he would have like a moment in his career of like

961
02:01:57.560 --> 02:02:03.790
stephanfranck: greater exposure, you know, right?

962
02:02:03.970 --> 02:02:15.005
stephanfranck: Got sick and passed away. And so that was the end of that band and the the end of it, you know. But just those albums, you know, the Hacienda Brothers Album are

963
02:02:15.900 --> 02:02:19.619
stephanfranck: just incredible albums, in my opinion.

964
02:02:21.660 --> 02:02:29.750
stephanfranck: And so that so there's that and also I will plug also.

965
02:02:29.940 --> 02:02:34.926
stephanfranck: and you'll see like the you know, the one of the thread, and also because you know

966
02:02:35.930 --> 02:02:39.719
stephanfranck: Palomino. You know the the steel guitar is a big, you know.

967
02:02:40.020 --> 02:02:53.209
stephanfranck: Motif in there. There was in the in the Hasina Brothers. There's there was this great this guy who I've never met or I don't know him, but his his name was, I think, Dave Burzanski, or something like that.

968
02:02:53.210 --> 02:03:14.310
stephanfranck: was amazing. Still player, and just plays in that very baker's field kind of style, very bouncy and active and cool. And so, anyway, check that out. And then I'm going to give another one. That's the one I give often, because I think is not known by a lot of people outside of the music business.

969
02:03:15.540 --> 02:03:17.328
stephanfranck: But the

970
02:03:19.410 --> 02:03:24.340
stephanfranck: There was a guy called Peter Cooper. Did I mention him before.

971
02:03:24.730 --> 02:03:26.630
Tad Eggleston: Peter Cooper. I don't know.

972
02:03:27.092 --> 02:03:32.179
stephanfranck: He was based in Nashville, and he was 1st and foremost

973
02:03:32.830 --> 02:04:02.186
stephanfranck: a a great journalist. Yeah. He was one of the top music writers, you know. You know, in Nashville, writing about music, about the industry and stuff like that. But he was also an excellent musician, singer, songwriter, and I did get to. And he passed away also a couple of years ago, in a just stupid, like a freak accident of some sort like I think he fell down the stairs, or something like that, something really

974
02:04:02.810 --> 02:04:21.640
stephanfranck: I don't know. But I got to meet him when he and Eric Brace were doing a couple of dates in La, and I was playing music at the time, and we opened for them, and we got friendly, and we had, and then played with them the next day, and had like a very, very wonderful experience. And and so

975
02:04:21.840 --> 02:04:25.110
stephanfranck: beyond that, he's got those albums

976
02:04:25.810 --> 02:04:34.520
stephanfranck: where? Because he's a big fan of the steel guitar, and specifically of Lloyd Green.

977
02:04:34.840 --> 02:04:40.140
stephanfranck: who might be my favorite musician ever in popular music, is Lloyd Green.

978
02:04:40.704 --> 02:04:51.200
stephanfranck: and who? And so there's albums where it's just Peter playing, you know, singing with acoustic guitar, and Lloyd Green doing all the accompaniment on the pedal steel.

979
02:04:51.360 --> 02:04:52.770
stephanfranck: and it's transparent.

980
02:04:54.030 --> 02:04:56.890
Tad Eggleston: That also sounds fantastic.

981
02:04:57.130 --> 02:05:03.089
Tad Eggleston: See, this is why I have to ask you this. These questions. It does look like it is Dave Burzanski.

982
02:05:03.400 --> 02:05:03.930
stephanfranck: Version.

983
02:05:03.930 --> 02:05:09.760
Tad Eggleston: You were right. Yes, I had to look, and there are 2 daves. There was also a Dave Gonzalez, but.

984
02:05:09.760 --> 02:05:22.420
stephanfranck: Yes, who was also in his own right. A great kind of East West Coast kind of more rockabilly latino, you know. There's a great latino, I mean from Richie Valens on.

985
02:05:22.420 --> 02:05:22.750
Tad Eggleston: Right.

986
02:05:23.130 --> 02:05:26.339
stephanfranck: There's a great Latino rockability culture here in that.

987
02:05:26.340 --> 02:05:27.450
Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely!

988
02:05:27.450 --> 02:05:39.319
stephanfranck: He's coming from that world, and Dave's coming from the the you know, the the countryside and the 2 are together. There's like a chemistry in that band. That's just incredible.

989
02:05:39.930 --> 02:05:55.740
Tad Eggleston: I look forward to throwing it on and listening to some soon, Stefan. It's always such a joy. I need to remember to do this more often, just because it's fun and or rope you into a book club or 2, because I've been doing lots of clubs.

990
02:05:56.730 --> 02:05:57.325
stephanfranck: Well

991
02:05:58.280 --> 02:06:07.480
Tad Eggleston: Are my happy spot, I said. Book clubs are my happy spot, because it's like well, because I it makes me.

992
02:06:08.070 --> 02:06:24.680
Tad Eggleston: It makes me get out of the world and into whatever we're reading for the club while still allowing me to be social, and often the world will seep in, because what's you know it doesn't, doesn't make me leave the world. It just makes me not

993
02:06:25.290 --> 02:06:30.370
Tad Eggleston: obsess on the world, because I've got this that has. I mean at this point, like.

994
02:06:30.850 --> 02:06:34.470
Tad Eggleston: I don't have time to do anything but read sometimes. And I'm okay with that.

995
02:06:34.720 --> 02:06:37.640
stephanfranck: Work. Read, that's a good.

996
02:06:37.640 --> 02:06:53.459
stephanfranck: Yeah. There's something really wonderful I think, about. You know, when you focus on story, you get into a room with people and just focus on story, whether it's a writing room, a book, club, or reading whatever you know. You hear. Everybody's like point of view, and everybody's like.

997
02:06:53.460 --> 02:06:55.880
Tad Eggleston: Oh, it enhances it so much.

998
02:06:56.070 --> 02:06:59.889
stephanfranck: And it's because no one, no 2 people.

999
02:07:00.310 --> 02:07:08.450
stephanfranck: have the same approach to anything or the same takeaway from anything. And it's so that's so amazing. You know.

1000
02:07:08.750 --> 02:07:17.060
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no. One of the book clubs we have on 22 panels is a heavy metal book club. And I think it was issue. 5 that

1001
02:07:19.430 --> 02:07:31.909
Tad Eggleston: I went. Oh, well, eventually you got a swig, and Miss and and Matt and my brother Peter were like, what are you talking about this. This issue was amazing, and by the time we were done talking about it

1002
02:07:32.210 --> 02:07:49.019
Tad Eggleston: I liked it as much or more than they did. There were just all sorts of things that somehow. And and this is something that I explained to my students on a regular basis, like you are the final collaborator. If you don't like something. One of the questions you have to ask is, what what mood was I in when I read it?

1003
02:07:49.230 --> 02:07:50.270
stephanfranck: Yes, yes.

1004
02:07:50.270 --> 02:07:51.770
Tad Eggleston: What did I bring to it.

1005
02:07:51.770 --> 02:07:53.020
stephanfranck: Yeah, yeah, role, play? Now.

1006
02:07:53.020 --> 02:08:04.360
Tad Eggleston: That's 1 of the reasons that we talk about it, because because maybe, you know and and I like, I'm the king of getting my 2 favorite compliments that I get for from

1007
02:08:05.140 --> 02:08:07.720
Tad Eggleston: from students and and

1008
02:08:09.580 --> 02:08:22.060
Tad Eggleston: they're very rarely intended as compliments are Mr. E. You're making me think, and and Mr. EI didn't like this, but I think I do now.

1009
02:08:22.530 --> 02:08:23.609
stephanfranck: That's so amazing.

1010
02:08:24.552 --> 02:08:29.380
Tad Eggleston: You know. Because a

1011
02:08:29.680 --> 02:08:39.849
Tad Eggleston: with I mean, yeah, great and even even bad art speaks to somebody on a level that doesn't require

1012
02:08:40.030 --> 02:08:48.980
Tad Eggleston: anything else. But almost no, art isn't enhanced when you start sharing and hearing other people's experiences with it.

1013
02:08:49.760 --> 02:08:54.640
Tad Eggleston: appreciate it, know and I think comics more than more than any art is.

1014
02:08:56.540 --> 02:08:59.200
Tad Eggleston: The final collaborator is.

1015
02:08:59.200 --> 02:09:00.760
stephanfranck: Needs to be.

1016
02:09:00.760 --> 02:09:02.090
Tad Eggleston: Is the reader.

1017
02:09:03.470 --> 02:09:12.529
Tad Eggleston: you know, because there's so much that has to be left in between panels and comics. There's there's so much that

1018
02:09:12.680 --> 02:09:19.070
Tad Eggleston: that you can't hear or smell in comics, except that

1019
02:09:19.670 --> 02:09:37.480
Tad Eggleston: if you're doing it right, you're going to hear or smell, you're going to be able to fill in. But again, that's the job of the reader, and different readers will do it differently. And that's just such a I mean, I think Nate Powell called it the most democratic medium.

1020
02:09:38.210 --> 02:09:41.210
Tad Eggleston: And then that's that. That's

1021
02:09:41.590 --> 02:09:54.039
Tad Eggleston: a favorite quote of mine. Stefan, it's always always a pleasure. Let me take us out. We'll chat for a couple of minutes, and then I'll let you go, because, you know, it's probably lunchtime for you.

1022
02:09:56.990 --> 02:10:05.589
Tad Eggleston: So for for 22 panels this has been Stefan, Frank Palomino. Kickstarter is sometime in in hopefully the near near future.

1023
02:10:05.590 --> 02:10:06.209
stephanfranck: All right.

1024
02:10:06.210 --> 02:10:07.029
Tad Eggleston: We might bring him for that.

1025
02:10:07.030 --> 02:10:07.989
stephanfranck: I was thinking April.

1026
02:10:07.990 --> 02:10:08.830
Tad Eggleston: Thinking, April.

1027
02:10:08.830 --> 02:10:20.049
stephanfranck: It's I would encourage everybody to go to the website and sign on to the newsletter, which is not a a spammy thing. It's just like it's only anytime you book or something happens.

1028
02:10:20.050 --> 02:10:30.109
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I I think I've signed on to the Newsletter 2 or 3 times now, and I don't think I've gotten more than one email from him. So I'm certain that it's not a spammy thing.

1029
02:10:30.110 --> 02:10:31.790
stephanfranck: Not a spam thing.

1030
02:10:32.800 --> 02:10:40.430
Tad Eggleston: So, yeah, but and and if you haven't read Palomino, go to dark planet comics definitely buy it. It's

1031
02:10:40.780 --> 02:10:42.140
Tad Eggleston: so amazing.

1032
02:10:44.000 --> 02:10:50.350
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, just just fantastic work. So for 22 panels we will see you after the next page.