Bonus Episode: 22 Panels Fourth World Book Club

Mark Pracht, Sean Harklerode, and Tad discuss Jack Kirby's 1970s arrival at DC Comics -  Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #133-135.

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Transcript

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Tad Eggleston: Recording.

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Tad Eggleston: Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to 22 panels and the debut episode of our newest book club. Right now. I'm just going to call it the 4th World Book Club. Unless one of you guys has a better

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Tad Eggleston: idea, it feels it feels it feels like one to just go direct on, kind of like our milestone Book Club. But if somebody has a cool title, let me know. But but yeah, 4th World book club, Sean Harker, world. Mark Pratt

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Tad Eggleston: from the Chicago Theater community

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Tad Eggleston: are joining me. Mark wrote a play recently about King Kirby, among others, and that other Guy Stan Stanley.

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Mark Pracht: Stanley Lieber.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. But of that, yeah, that other guy.

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Mark Pracht: A play that I will point out was just this week nominated for best new work at the Chicago Theater. Jeff Awards.

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Tad Eggleston: I did see that I you are plug away. You are

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Tad Eggleston: so good at promoting yourself right before I'm about to promote you. It's.

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Mark Pracht: You can't.

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Tad Eggleston: Talent, mark.

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Mark Pracht: Can't spell prompt without Pr. As our good friend Chad Wise pointed out, so.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, it's mark.

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Sean Harklerode: I think that was the Sean Harkle Road original.

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Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah, okay, well, it's that's

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Mark Pracht: somehow that does not surprise me.

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Tad Eggleston: So Mark is the author of House of Ideas. The the Jeff nominated play as well as innocence of.

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Mark Pracht: Seduction.

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Tad Eggleston: Innocence of seduction. I always forget. If I'm I know I need to flip it, but I always forget what the original was. Innocence of seduction and the mark of Cain Sean played in all 3 of those plays, including a starring role in innocence of seduction. As Bill Gaines. Mark, you're the one that came up with the idea of let's read 4th World

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Tad Eggleston: in chronological order. So I mean, that's the thing to to point out to to the audience. We're not. Gonna we've set up a reading list where we're going to read them

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Tad Eggleston: the way they came out. So this week we're going to talk about Jimmy Olson's

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Tad Eggleston: or Superman's PAL, Jimmy Olsen. 133 to 135. But next next month it'll be forever. People number one.

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Tad Eggleston: new gods, number one, Mr. Miracle number one, and Superman's PAL, Jimmy Olsen, 1, 36, and it will kind of continue that way

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Tad Eggleston: the way it was as a monthly release.

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Mark Pracht: Right, because we didn't want to do just one issue of Jimmy Olsen. Right? That would seem like.

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Mark Pracht: right? Yeah, like enough

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Mark Pracht: but no, you know the conversation that Tad and I had about this. Basically, the last time I did this exercise was I was doing research for the play, and so I read

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Mark Pracht: You know I read the whole 4th World saga in order

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Mark Pracht: and I did it on an overnight flight from Chicago to London, and about halfway through 4 30 in the morning I began to think I was going insane, and you know and that's not me being critical. That's just.

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Mark Pracht: It is a flood of material. And I and I began to wonder

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Mark Pracht: if it might be more interesting and more fun and more

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Mark Pracht: cogent if you took it month by month, and actually gave yourself some time to

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Mark Pracht: to chew over the admittedly massive

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Mark Pracht: flood of ideas that are coming out of these books?

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Mark Pracht: you know, for those who don't know, because I mean, when we 1st started talking about this and part of the reason that we're doing. It is because Tad had never read these books. That's correct.

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Tad Eggleston: I haven't. I still haven't. I mean, I've read the 3 books that we needed to read for this month.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, and for you know, just as a background thing. And and I guess since I wrote the play, I'll I'll talk about it. You know, these are. These are when Jack Kirby left

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Mark Pracht: Marvel in very early seventies

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Mark Pracht: he went to DC. Who offered him a contract that was marginally better than what he had at Marvel and

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Mark Pracht: Jack came in with this idea of wanting to do these 4th World books. These were his ideas.

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Mark Pracht: the Jimmy Olsen book which we're going to, you know, dive into today, is I? My feeling is that it came about because

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Mark Pracht: DC editorial wanted him to work on a flagship character.

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Mark Pracht: And so this was.

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Mark Pracht: there's there's number. There's a number of stories, but the one is that that Jimmy Olson was the one that didn't have a set creative team at the time, and Jack, not wanting to take work away from anybody, said he'd do that. So that's where we jump in. And

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Mark Pracht: clearly, as we'll probably talk about, he is setting the stage for this larger 4th World story that he wants to do

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Mark Pracht: successfully or not successfully. I'm not sure but that's what we're here to talk about. So

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Mark Pracht: this is, you know.

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Mark Pracht: the the sobricate of Ping Kirby really came to prominence during the marvel years, and this is the 1st time when I think Jack himself is trading upon that

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Mark Pracht: to to promote himself.

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Mark Pracht: Pr, just like myself.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Mark Pracht: So here we are, Jimmy Olsen, number 1, 1533, 3, rd 30.

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Sean Harklerode: Before we.

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Tad Eggleston: Get into it.

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Sean Harklerode: So I thought it might be interesting since you you said he came, not wanting to take work from people. The story that people tell, and you might say that this is untrue, was that he? He said, give me your your worst selling book.

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Mark Pracht: Right.

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Sean Harklerode: And I'll turn it around. Which

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Sean Harklerode: is a very Ben Grimm, Jack Kirby thing to say. But yeah.

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Mark Pracht: I think that's true, too, but I don't know. I I think there's so many.

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Mark Pracht: you know, with all of these things when you're talking about Jack. And when you're talking about Stan and you're talking about, there are so many stories, and there's so many things that they said and so many of the things don't make sense when you put them against each other, and they don't, and some it's some it's hearsay. It's it's Mark Evenier who, you know, was his assistant, and and I don't necessarily think that anybody's lying. I just think.

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Tad Eggleston: Memory is weird.

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Mark Pracht: Memory is weird.

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Tad Eggleston: Memory is weird. Memory changes over time. Memory is affected by emotion. Different perspectives remember different things.

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Tad Eggleston: You know. It's why Rashomon is such a good story, movie, comic.

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Sean Harklerode: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: That that's a round table for some time, because there is now a manga version of Rashomon. So

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Tad Eggleston: I would love to do, watch the movie. Read the short story.

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Tad Eggleston: but that's a different thing really quickly, before we jump into Jimmy Olsen Sean, what's your experience with 4th World? Have you

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Tad Eggleston: read it before, or or you know what what level of.

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Sean Harklerode: I have read most of it. My! My experience goes back 50 years.

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Sean Harklerode: maybe not quite 50 years.

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Sean Harklerode: I remember I had these books

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Sean Harklerode: and I loved particularly 1, 33, and 1 34. The covers, I just thought were amazing. Mr. Miracle number One. I also had

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Sean Harklerode: but I remember having these and I had seen them. My cousins had them, and I didn't know what Kirby was. It was like. Kirby is here, King Kirby, a Kirby size, and I was like, who is this.

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Tad Eggleston: Isn't it that robot in fantastic 4.

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Sean Harklerode: Right I was like, and so I.

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Mark Pracht: That's Herbie Kirby, the robot.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh!

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Sean Harklerode: So that's that's how I 1st remember these is is being perplexed as to who King Kirby was, and my cousin explaining it to me.

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Mark Pracht: I. You know I like I'm I'm a little bit younger than Sean, but I specifically, I remember when he came back to Marvel, there was a lot of Kirby Kirby, Kirby, and I was like, who the hell was this? And.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: And this is, you know, it's also.

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Mark Pracht: and this really odd artwork to me. And that's that's something that that you know, I think is worth talking about and worth talking about in.

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Mark Pracht: you know. Famously sorry I didn't mean to interrupt Sean, so.

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Sean Harklerode: No, no, no, I just.

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Sean Harklerode: you know. So that that was my 1st introduction, and then I reread A few years ago, when this giant

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Sean Harklerode: Kirby omnibus came out.

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Tad Eggleston: Omnibus came out.

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Sean Harklerode: Oh, you can work out with this thing.

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Mark Pracht: That's.

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Tad Eggleston: That's the that's the nature of the omnibus.

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Sean Harklerode: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, whereas.

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Sean Harklerode: No omnibus is coming out. I don't know.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay.

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Sean Harklerode: Solicit Ditko at DC.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay. Very cool.

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Sean Harklerode: But yeah, and I, you know, I I really like Mr. Miracle.

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Sean Harklerode: but yeah, this was this was really great reading them. I agree with Mark not reading the whole thing in one sitting or in a week or 2. I think it's gonna really flesh out the material.

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Sean Harklerode: because there are so many big ideas coming at you on on every page, and and just to spend the time to enjoy the artwork. Some of those machines and the the masks, I mean, who knew Victor von Doom was going to be showing up in the.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, yeah. And the the Redrawn Superman and Jimmy Olsen hit.

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Sean Harklerode: Right.

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Mark Pracht: Which is a whole nother thing to talk about. But.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: well, really, quickly, before we jump into this story, I'll say that, like my background is, I know, a lot of the characters, but I know them from other people's like my. My deepest, deepest connection to Jimmy Olsen is through Matt fraction. And Steve Lieber and my was Matt fraction, wasn't it?

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, Steve Lieber, did the art. Okay? My deepest connection to Mr. Miracle is through Tom King and Mitch Gerards. You know my deepest connection to dark side is the great darkness, saga. So I know

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Tad Eggleston: what's been done with the characters since then, but most of my knowledge of like 4th World comes from.

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Tad Eggleston: I have the 4th World expansion set to the DC. Deck building game.

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Mark Pracht: I think that that's I again. You know I don't want to. I don't want to, you know.

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Mark Pracht: get too far ahead of ourselves. But I mean, I do think that those things, you know famously

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Mark Pracht: at least according to Mark Evenier, Kirby's idea and plan, was that he was going to create these ideas and then turn them over to other people, and he would edit the line, I mean, I think, in some ways he was hoping to put himself into sort of a Stan Lee kind of position.

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Mark Pracht: But I think you can make the argument that

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Mark Pracht: other people have fleshed out this material to

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Mark Pracht: better use than what Kirby does during these in this initial run. I think.

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Mark Pracht: And you know, as we go through it, I think

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Mark Pracht: there'll be ways we can talk about that. But

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Mark Pracht: I think you know, just to

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Mark Pracht: start us off and talk about these 3 issues of Jimmy Olsen.

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Mark Pracht: One thing that struck me on this reading is how

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Mark Pracht: how golden age these books feel like it's just

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Mark Pracht: there, like it's a it's ideas. It's not necessarily narrative cohesion, you know.

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Mark Pracht: It's like I was. I was sort of shocked at a time, you know where I was like, okay.

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Mark Pracht: yeah.

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Mark Pracht: You know, we've got the whiz wagon, which is probably one of the

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Mark Pracht: one of those great Kirby names, you know, and you're like, well, that's a big deal.

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Mark Pracht: And then I've forgotten that it 1st appears on the second page of the book, you know. It's just like boom. There it is, you know. There's no.

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Mark Pracht: there's no subtlety whatsoever in the storytelling, and

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Mark Pracht: that can be. That can be a a

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Mark Pracht: crit, you know, that can be a bad thing, or it can be a good thing. It's.

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Tad Eggleston: I think overall. That's that's 1 of the things I enjoyed

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Tad Eggleston: what I'm just looking at that page. It's a great example of the one part that got to me a little bit, particularly because Kirby is an artist, I would have thought wouldn't have wanted to cover so much of his art with word balloons is like every one of these word balloons. I'm like

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Tad Eggleston: you could like, cut out 2 thirds of the words here, and make it better.

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Tad Eggleston: Well.

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Mark Pracht: I mean.

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Tad Eggleston: Yes, that was the writing style of the time. I say that even more of Stan Lee than I'll say it of Jack Kirby, but but like your hope when you have the artist taking over writing duties, is that like.

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Mark Pracht: I'm gonna show those writers how it should be done.

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Mark Pracht: Well, but I mean, I also like, I think I think.

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Mark Pracht: that there was some effort. I think Jack was.

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Mark Pracht: I think Jack was pointedly trying to make a statement about what Stan contributed.

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Mark Pracht: You know, I think that he wouldn't look. I can put words together, too. And I

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Mark Pracht: he certainly can put words together.

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Mark Pracht: I'm gonna be flat out. I'm gonna be flat. He doesn't put words together as well as Stanley does.

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Tad Eggleston: I will say that in I think Kirby's best

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Tad Eggleston: isn't as good as stance best.

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Tad Eggleston: But this reminds me a lot

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Tad Eggleston: of like that average Stanley comic, the one that you read because you're actually reading a whole run of them rather.

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Tad Eggleston: And then people say, Oh, go read this issue.

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Mark Pracht: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: You know where you're building out the the word book balloon by by adding

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Tad Eggleston: as many adjectives as you can come up with, and and better if they're 2 word adjectives than one word adjectives.

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Sean Harklerode: I I actually you know, for all you know, that we know comes later. I felt that the writing in this was really good. I really enjoyed the dialogue it fit, you know. It was counter culture. You know, there's even a reference to Vietnam in here.

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Sean Harklerode: I really, you know, felt that it it worked, and I was, you know, pleasantly surprised with it, a little loquacious. But you know. That's how comics were at that time.

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Mark Pracht: Oh, no, like

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Mark Pracht: it's it's it's really interesting. I like, I think, about this a lot, you know, because famously, these books did not do as well as everyone hoped they would.

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Mark Pracht: And when you think about this being on a newsstand with, say, a Denny O'neill, Neil Adams.

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Mark Pracht: Batman, or or Green Lantern Green Arrow Book, like right next to it, like.

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Mark Pracht: how odd this must have seemed, you know, like.

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Mark Pracht: I suppose, if you were a marvelite you'd be like, oh, it's Kirby. But like

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Mark Pracht: that's it. It's really odd, you know, I mean. And I think I think there's a lot of stuff to love here.

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Mark Pracht: I do get narrative whiplash sometimes when it's like.

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Mark Pracht: okay, these guys, you know, the Harrys

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Mark Pracht: live in a like, essentially a giant tree house and.

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Tad Eggleston: I loved the treehouse, though.

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Sean Harklerode: Meeting on a giant trunk.

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Tad Eggleston: He walks ahead of time.

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Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, I mean, like, it's awesome like, don't get me wrong. It is. It is adventurous, it is, it is exciting, it is

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Mark Pracht: inventive.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean that is, I mean, when you asked about doing this, I kind of pushed it off, but then I'm like, Well, let me go read the 1st issue and see if it yanks me, and that's when I got back to you immediately and said, Well, I don't want to give up the pulp water. But I would like to do this, and it was in part because of

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Tad Eggleston: it was just Kirby, unleashed.

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Mark Pracht: Oh, sure!

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Tad Eggleston: You know and because because I think because it was in his head as he was drawing it.

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Tad Eggleston: I think actually he likely did. I'm looking at at page 5 here, and like there's a sequence where a guy is leaning over his desk, where there's no good reason for him to lean over his desk, except that he needs to because of the word balloons, so so.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: I think that because of that the art gets. I mean, I actually just noticed a place where Clark's head is in front of a word balloon.

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Tad Eggleston: So even though he's not doing the lettering, he's clearly doing enough of the roughing out before.

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Tad Eggleston: Or did he do the lettering? Because again. Vince Coletta did the inks. He might have been doing the lettering well, I mean.

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Mark Pracht: We do know. We do know that. You know we know from the the original art that's been found, that Jack Wood put

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Mark Pracht: rough word balloons into his art.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: He I mean. He knew he was. He was spotting the word balloons definitely

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Tad Eggleston: Right, but but I'm seeing like little things that you didn't see as much in the time, you know, word balloons going behind characters, heads so that the balloon doesn't cut off the art if the words don't need to be there.

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Tad Eggleston: Art, that's kind of built around, you know. I mean, I think that he could have made the the speech from this.

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Tad Eggleston: Who is this guy? This is.

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Mark Pracht: It's Morgan, a.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, see, I'd forgotten that there was a different editor of the Daily Planet, or didn't know it at all.

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Mark Pracht: Well.

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Tad Eggleston: For a while.

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Mark Pracht: I can't like. I was funny was when I was reading this. I was like was Morgan Edge, an existing character. When this came out because I

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Mark Pracht: I my memory would have been that Morgan Edge appeared earlier than this, but.

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Sean Harklerode: I think so.

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Mark Pracht: Right so. But and I found that interesting that Morgan Edge was always sort of this corporate guy. But you know Kirby Flat out makes him a villain, essentially, you know.

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Mark Pracht: And I thought that was that was

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Mark Pracht: audacious and interesting. But but yeah, no.

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Tad Eggleston: Due to the marvels of the Internet.

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Mark Pracht: Ha! Ha!

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Tad Eggleston: We can find out going to the DC. Family.

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Mark Pracht: When we could just talk about what we think. You know.

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Tad Eggleston: Because the last person to say that publicly I

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Tad Eggleston: don't want a quote right now.

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Sean Harklerode: I have found this.

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Sean Harklerode: His 1st appearance is Jimmy Olsen's superman's PAL, Jimmy Olsen, number 133.

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Tad Eggleston: Nice. So that's.

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Mark Pracht: Wow! Yes.

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Tad Eggleston: That that's fantastic.

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Sean Harklerode: So Jack Kirby is like, you know what.

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Tad Eggleston: I'll be.

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Tad Eggleston: We need a quote.

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Sean Harklerode: Not dealing with Gary White.

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Tad Eggleston: Right we need we? We need, we need more of a an evil corporate overlord.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, what made Gary White.

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Sean Harklerode: That one right? No, you can't.

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Mark Pracht: No, I I will say, it's As we get further into this we'll see the ultimate Stan Lee.

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Mark Pracht: character assassination happened. But there is elements of this where I was like, you know, every time I've seen Jack do, Stan, it comes off like this.

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Mark Pracht: I think I think there's some Stan Lee and Morgan Edge, so.

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Tad Eggleston: But but I'm getting a superman 241 as as the 1st

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Tad Eggleston: appearance, which was a Denny O'neill Kurt Swan Superman story.

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Sean Harklerode: I was on Wikipedia.

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Tad Eggleston: And I'm on the DC. Fandom Wiki.

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Tad Eggleston: So.

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Mark Pracht: Which Wiki.

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Tad Eggleston: Which one? Yeah, it's wicky, which Wiki is right.

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Sean Harklerode: Yeah.

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Mark Pracht: I'm gonna say, DC, fandom, I'd say, that's right.

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Tad Eggleston: Though it he, Jack Kirby, is listed as the Creator.

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Mark Pracht: Interesting.

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Tad Eggleston: On, the.

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Mark Pracht: So.

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Tad Eggleston: So we'll have to read more on that for next time. I'm not going to read all of the Wiki live on the show, I mean. I think I've done that before, but I'm looking through and seeing that it's longer than.

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Mark Pracht: I I you know. I think that also. You know, Morgan Edge is not

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Mark Pracht: I don't think we need to spend a ton of time figuring out where Morgan Edge is. But I do think, if Kirby did like, it would make total sense if Kirby created it, because a like, and also.

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Tad Eggleston: Turns out his real name is Morris Edelstein.

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Mark Pracht: His real name is Stanley Lieber.

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Tad Eggleston: Also had a clone.

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Sean Harklerode: So I will say that the cover date of.

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Tad Eggleston: Superman's PAL, Jimmy Olsen, number 133 is October, 1970. The cover date.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, it's 1971 is November 71. So so, yeah, no.

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Tad Eggleston: The DC Wiki definitely has has a mistake. There.

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Mark Pracht: I mean, you know, it's funny, but it is funny, because, like I remember Morgan Edge

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Mark Pracht: well into the eighties, I believe I mean? Because like that was.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean it says his last appearance was Superman 419. In 1986, though again they got the 1st appearance mixed up so.

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Mark Pracht: I mean it. It could. I mean whatever it is. But I mean like, I know that

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Mark Pracht: it seems like in this. There's still a newspaper, but I mean eventually, you know, it became W.

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Sean Harklerode: Vs.

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Mark Pracht: Wgbs and Superman was like a an Anchorman.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean.

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Mark Pracht: I was like, how do you? How do you fly off and do things when you have to be on the air at 6 pm. Every night, but whatever

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Tad Eggleston: I was. I was just reading it in terms of thinking of like our current media environment.

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Tad Eggleston: And like, of course, if you've got a main character that works in

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Tad Eggleston: in the media. You a great sideline, and I know that they've done it with Luther owning the planet. But Luther's such a

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Tad Eggleston: everything catch-all villain is to have, like

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Tad Eggleston: the plot of trying to be a good truth, telling journalist versus

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Tad Eggleston: the corporate guy that's thinking of different things.

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Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, and the you know

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Mark Pracht: cause like my, it's funny, because before I like, I

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Mark Pracht: when I was starting to research, I had read. I had not read these books

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Mark Pracht: until I started doing research for the show and

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Mark Pracht: So my memories of Morgan Edge were that he was this

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Mark Pracht: corporate media guy, but I mean like this, he's like fully in bed with like Intergang and and his intergang

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Mark Pracht: spoilers. Intergang is a dark side adjacent organization. But

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Mark Pracht: you know, I was sort of shocked that, like Morgan Edge, who

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Mark Pracht: was always sort of a nebulous character, but not like a villain

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Mark Pracht: started out like this. It's like it's interesting.

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Sean Harklerode: Trying to take Bob Clark Kent in the 1st issue.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah,

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Mark Pracht: But you know, and it's like

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Mark Pracht: there's a lot made of Kirby's

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Mark Pracht: prescience about things. And you know, and I think sometimes it's it's

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Mark Pracht: exaggerated, and sometimes it isn't. But I do think that

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Mark Pracht: this also goes to show us that you know all of these things that we're dealing with right now are not exactly new, you know.

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Tad Eggleston: So.

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Mark Pracht: No go ahead!

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Tad Eggleston: I was going to say one of the things that's always struck me about curvy prescience, and and I wish that I could immediately come up with other examples of it. But I'm not.

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Tad Eggleston: Is that it always feels like on one side. He's

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Tad Eggleston: like way way ahead of the curve, but then also, rather than being willing to

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Tad Eggleston: assign simple localized reasons to it. He then wants to, as you're saying with this, tie it into some grander good versus evil

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Tad Eggleston: rather than just greedy. Guy owns newspaper.

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Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, you know, and like, I think that like reading these.

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Mark Pracht: it's really it's real obvious what

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Mark Pracht: he's he's setting the stage for something that means a hell of a lot more to him than this book, right? I mean, I think.

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Mark Pracht: whether whether it was this was the book that didn't have a set

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Mark Pracht: creative team, or he was like, Give me your lowest selling book. It was DC. Saying, we hired you. We want you to work on something big.

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Tad Eggleston: Or I mean, from a storytelling standpoint, I would, you know, from the telling of the story. The 2 versions that you've said are

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Tad Eggleston: are dead on the best way to tell it. Either. You know I'm the good guy I don't want to take anything away from, or I'm going to hero. Give me your worst selling book, but from a storytelling standpoint it also feels like the the best compromise. Look, I care about this. You want me to work on a book that has a main. Give me the book that you can let me shoehorn into this

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Tad Eggleston: right

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Tad Eggleston: because he couldn't have taken Superman and shoehorned it into 4th World. He couldn't have taken Batman or Wonder Woman and shoehorned it into 4th World.

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Tad Eggleston: Jimmy Olson.

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Tad Eggleston: There's a lot of room to play there.

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Sean Harklerode: He's a teenager.

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Mark Pracht: Although really, if you think about it.

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Mark Pracht: wonder woman might have been the way to do that.

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Tad Eggleston: Awesome.

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Mark Pracht: Gods, old gods wait! And this was right in the time when when Wonder woman was like.

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Mark Pracht: wasn't this in a little bit depowered sense? It seemed.

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Tad Eggleston: Absolutely. But as a DC. Editorial, are you willing to take that risk with wonder, woman.

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Mark Pracht: Well, I mean.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean, I could see I could see Kirby being more interested in Wonder woman. But DC. Editorial, not knowing how new gods is going to go over. Do you want to get? Let Wonder Woman get sucked into that.

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Mark Pracht: Well, I mean.

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Tad Eggleston: Play it safe with Jimmy. Also.

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Mark Pracht: They're I mean, really, yeah, Jimmy Olsen is the playing safe move, right? But you know, it's just like they also had shown.

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Mark Pracht: you know, because

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Mark Pracht: we had Denny O'neill, you know, depowering her and and turning her into an em appeal clone and and

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Mark Pracht: I that's that's just playing what.

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Tad Eggleston: Still need to read those.

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Mark Pracht: There!

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Mark Pracht: They're not great.

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Tad Eggleston: See, I love Denny O'neill, though.

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Mark Pracht: I think Danny O'neill is one of the 3 best comic book writers of all time.

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Tad Eggleston: Curious as to who your other 2 are.

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Mark Pracht: We won't talk about that

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Mark Pracht: But I mean like Denny O'neill is is, I mean like, and I shouldn't say best favorite favorite, I mean, like, I think.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, then, you should really be willing to talk about it, because they're only your favorites. You're not saying they're better than other people.

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Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, but I mean they're my favorites, so they are better than other people.

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Sean Harklerode: Well, Denny was one of the 1st writers that I ever followed.

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Mark Pracht: Right.

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Sean Harklerode: But I saw Denny O'neill driving this I, or or even editing this, and I'm gonna read it.

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Mark Pracht: Right?

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Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, cause in the eighties he was running the batman titles where he was running all of.

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Sean Harklerode: There it is!

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Mark Pracht: Non super powered superhero titles. I mean that.

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Tad Eggleston: It's a yeah, the the.

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Mark Pracht: At least to DC.

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Tad Eggleston: The unpopular opinion that I sometimes share

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Tad Eggleston: is that my favorite daredevil books aren't the Frank Miller?

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Tad Eggleston: Aren't the Frank Miller, David Masticelli? They're the Denny O'neill, David Masticelli in between the Frank Miller and the Frank Miller date, and like as overall storylines.

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Tad Eggleston: sure, I'll give the Elector Saga and and born again higher. But but the way Denny

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Tad Eggleston: was really good. Most of them were one or 2 issue stories without, like a lot of, and he'd let Mazzicelli. Just go to town. I love those daredevil books.

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Mark Pracht: You know. Well the thing, and

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Mark Pracht: funny enough, I believe the 1st

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Mark Pracht: knew God's revival was written by Denny.

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Tad Eggleston: Was it?

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Tad Eggleston: I thought it was burn.

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Mark Pracht: I'm no no, there was one like cause when

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Mark Pracht: When a Jeanette Khan came in she sort of she was like this is this is this stuff is too good. We need to revive it.

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Mark Pracht: And or it's exploitable.

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Mark Pracht: And I believe I believe Denny did it.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean. I totally believe it, because I could see Denny doing great stuff.

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Mark Pracht: I mean, like what Denny was so good at, I mean, and really is, is that he could take this rip from the headlines thing.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Mark Pracht: And sometimes it was overwritten. But he would also take these incredible superhero concepts and slam them together and make it cohesive

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Mark Pracht: in like like I

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Mark Pracht: to come back to Jimmy Olsen like, that's certainly some of the things that are happening here.

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Mark Pracht: It's not smooth.

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Mark Pracht: It's like, Okay, hippie world straight guy world. Boom, bam together, giant Tree House. Hey? Look over here, you know it's like

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Mark Pracht: and and I certainly love it.

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Mark Pracht: Not to pivot, but that does actually make me think of.

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Mark Pracht: One of my favorite things to talk about with Jack Kirby is his revisiting of concepts

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Mark Pracht: over and over again, and lo and behold, here we have a boy gang!

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Mark Pracht: Yep, and not only a boy gang, it's the sons of the boy gang he created in the forties.

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Tad Eggleston: Spoilers. I'm blown and.

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Tad Eggleston: So things, just.

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Mark Pracht: And come on

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Mark Pracht: I I didn't this time, but when I 1st read this, the when the name Flip a dippok.

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Sean Harklerode: Send me out!

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Mark Pracht: I mean, Jack, maybe we should have work workshop that in Buffalo for a few days, but you know

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Mark Pracht: it's but that's that's sort of part of this whole, like

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Mark Pracht: Jack, is so much of the Golden Age

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Mark Pracht: vintage like, and that is a total golden age of comics.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.

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Mark Pracht: Concept. It's a told golden age of concept name, you know, it's just like, you know.

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Mark Pracht: And actually, it was funny, because, as we were reading these 3. I had forgotten that the you know, 35 ends with the revival of the Golden Guardian. Again, from the 4, you know, from the Golden Age. And I was like, well, it actually is a really good place to to pause, you know.

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Mark Pracht: So anyway, I've talked too much. Somebody else say something.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I.

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Sean Harklerode: Well, I would say, to make a Beatles reference.

365
00:34:41.609 --> 00:34:49.180
Sean Harklerode: These these 3 issues feel to me like George Harrison's. All things must pass album.

366
00:34:49.510 --> 00:34:50.210
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

367
00:34:50.219 --> 00:34:55.649
Sean Harklerode: In which you have someone who is so creative, but somewhat stifled.

368
00:34:55.969 --> 00:34:58.069
Mark Pracht: And now they have some freedom.

369
00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:02.949
Sean Harklerode: And they just throw everything at it right?

370
00:35:02.950 --> 00:35:03.430
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

371
00:35:04.530 --> 00:35:07.939
Sean Harklerode: Beep if you haven't heard that album. It's fantastic.

372
00:35:07.940 --> 00:35:18.709
Tad Eggleston: It's a great album. But but part of the reason it's Harrison's best is because it's like 10 years of stuff that he couldn't get onto Beatles album, or the best of 10 years worth of stuff that he couldn't.

373
00:35:18.710 --> 00:35:19.040
Sean Harklerode: Right.

374
00:35:19.040 --> 00:35:22.139
Tad Eggleston: The Beatles albums, you know.

375
00:35:22.140 --> 00:35:35.720
Sean Harklerode: And so that's what I kept thinking when, like you said on the second page is the the spread of the the whiz wagon. You've got dark side you've got, you know, mockery. And Simeon. And yeah, you know

376
00:35:35.910 --> 00:35:40.960
Sean Harklerode: the the machine, what the the mountain of justice.

377
00:35:41.390 --> 00:35:41.920
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

378
00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:42.670
Sean Harklerode: Right.

379
00:35:42.670 --> 00:35:43.250
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

380
00:35:43.250 --> 00:35:47.189
Sean Harklerode: You know all of this. It just seems like everything's coming at us.

381
00:35:47.650 --> 00:35:49.240
Tad Eggleston: Well, and and he

382
00:35:50.270 --> 00:36:02.659
Tad Eggleston: he! He does what I still don't. I still can't think of any other artists that do like the photo collage thing that he did a little bit in Fantastic 4.

383
00:36:02.660 --> 00:36:03.040
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

384
00:36:03.040 --> 00:36:09.380
Tad Eggleston: And but like the 1st page of it here in in the second issue, we read, where you've got like

385
00:36:10.160 --> 00:36:20.410
Tad Eggleston: the sports car, and what kind of looks like tracks above and below. And yeah, kaleidoscope like is

386
00:36:20.640 --> 00:36:25.829
Tad Eggleston: what he'd been allowed to do at marvel. Just ratcheted up to 11.

387
00:36:26.060 --> 00:36:32.989
Mark Pracht: Although, although I would, the one thing I would say about that at Marvel, when they did this it got colored.

388
00:36:33.630 --> 00:36:34.370
Tad Eggleston: Right.

389
00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:38.053
Mark Pracht: And I did think it was strange that it was not colored.

390
00:36:38.576 --> 00:36:40.160
Tad Eggleston: I kind of like it, not colored.

391
00:36:40.160 --> 00:36:41.479
Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I felt like.

392
00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:46.199
Sean Harklerode: yeah, I mean, that's a good choice. When you're saying that everything is so wild and.

393
00:36:46.520 --> 00:36:47.210
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

394
00:36:47.210 --> 00:36:54.549
Sean Harklerode: Phantasmagorical. That's a word that. Now it goes to black and white because we can't perceive.

395
00:36:55.120 --> 00:36:56.529
Tad Eggleston: Mean I?

396
00:36:56.530 --> 00:36:56.960
Tad Eggleston: No.

397
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:07.739
Tad Eggleston: that the only way it works in color is, if you make, if you like, are very deliberate about the colors to not have them be the colors from the photograph. So you essentially.

398
00:37:07.740 --> 00:37:08.750
Mark Pracht: Oh, sure!

399
00:37:09.170 --> 00:37:16.240
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, but also in a way that I don't know that they

400
00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:24.670
Tad Eggleston: were set up with 4 color printing to. I mean, I mean, I know it could be done at the time, because, like Mobius, could have colored it, and it could have been put in

401
00:37:24.980 --> 00:37:32.369
Tad Eggleston: in heavy or metal, or lot, or even heavy metal. This, and you know, would have looked right.

402
00:37:33.530 --> 00:37:41.940
Tad Eggleston: though heavy metal in the States had some issues with Corbyn's colors, so so definitely metal Erlant could have done it at the time.

403
00:37:41.940 --> 00:37:46.404
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean they did it like it's

404
00:37:47.260 --> 00:38:00.019
Mark Pracht: they did it in the Ff. I mean they he did a collage not quite as extreme as this. I. And I think the other thing that that kind of has to be addressed is that I do think.

405
00:38:00.890 --> 00:38:03.200
Mark Pracht: And it became really obvious as I was.

406
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:11.470
Mark Pracht: you know, and I think we'll talk about it as we go through that as he started to work.

407
00:38:12.690 --> 00:38:20.320
Mark Pracht: I think so. You can see him being like I can do this quicker and get.

408
00:38:20.750 --> 00:38:27.029
Mark Pracht: Done faster than if I tried to draw all of this right.

409
00:38:27.030 --> 00:38:32.510
Tad Eggleston: I mean the name of my podcast is 22 panels. I'm not necessarily opposed to that.

410
00:38:32.510 --> 00:38:50.430
Mark Pracht: Right. I mean, I don't, I mean and I'm not. I'm not that like I think that I think that there, I think that there is a artistic sensibility in doing it, but it's also like it's also why, like as you, when you get further and further into the 4th world, the panels get bigger

411
00:38:50.650 --> 00:38:59.180
Mark Pracht: like. There's a lot more splash pages. There's a you know, and it's like cause I can draw that faster than 6 or 10 panels, you know, and

412
00:39:00.260 --> 00:39:02.060
Tad Eggleston: But but I mean I also.

413
00:39:02.380 --> 00:39:02.940
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

414
00:39:03.170 --> 00:39:09.230
Tad Eggleston: I go back to our conversation with Matt Madden.

415
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:12.970
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. You know. Part of the constraint

416
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:22.030
Tad Eggleston: of monthly comics is that it's 22 pages you have to get done, and in Kirby's case it was essentially a weekly comic of 22 pages, because

417
00:39:22.160 --> 00:39:39.290
Tad Eggleston: start putting out for a month. So that's part of the constraint. But but then you almost have to build yourself other constraints, so that you're thinking in a way that you're still doing the best storytelling you can do in a way that you can actually get done.

418
00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:45.019
Mark Pracht: I mean like, believe you me, I would not trade any of those splash pages.

419
00:39:45.020 --> 00:39:45.730
Tad Eggleston: Right.

420
00:39:45.730 --> 00:39:55.250
Mark Pracht: For anything. They're amazing. They are amazing pieces of artwork. They're incredible. I think that these collage pages are incredible.

421
00:39:55.810 --> 00:39:56.480
Mark Pracht: Dot.

422
00:39:56.780 --> 00:40:04.839
Mark Pracht: For myself. Personally, I would rather see a Kirby drawing than a collage, but that's just me but.

423
00:40:04.970 --> 00:40:05.760
Tad Eggleston: I mean.

424
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:06.090
Mark Pracht: Like.

425
00:40:06.090 --> 00:40:09.659
Tad Eggleston: I agree with you most of the time, but his collages are really fucking cool.

426
00:40:09.930 --> 00:40:11.460
Mark Pracht: Yeah. Oh, okay.

427
00:40:12.080 --> 00:40:25.440
Tad Eggleston: Least to me particularly, because almost every, at least the times I've seen them so far I also feel like they actually tell the story as they're going so to be able to do that cool thing and not have it break the storytelling.

428
00:40:25.940 --> 00:40:28.100
Tad Eggleston: It's just really cool to me.

429
00:40:28.100 --> 00:40:32.130
Mark Pracht: It's super cool, I mean, I'm not saying I'm not. I'm just saying that

430
00:40:32.610 --> 00:40:36.529
Mark Pracht: I would write. The the magic of Kirby, putting

431
00:40:36.790 --> 00:40:46.546
Mark Pracht: pencil and ink on a paper is even with Vince Coletta inking Vince Colletta.

432
00:40:49.340 --> 00:40:57.430
Mark Pracht: Is that that's magic to me. And and I think that's I'm always going to want like.

433
00:40:57.570 --> 00:41:11.679
Mark Pracht: If if somebody offered me the original artwork of, say, page 15 of of 34 here, I would be like, sure I'll do that, but I would much rather even have page

434
00:41:12.490 --> 00:41:21.089
Mark Pracht: you know. 14 where it's it's this terribly redrawn superman face up in the upper right hand corner. I it's.

435
00:41:21.090 --> 00:41:25.869
Tad Eggleston: Talk to me about that cause, cause I hadn't heard heard about Redrawn superman.

436
00:41:25.870 --> 00:41:27.320
Sean Harklerode: Well, let's see.

437
00:41:27.580 --> 00:41:31.769
Mark Pracht: I mean. And Sean knows about this as well. When.

438
00:41:31.910 --> 00:41:43.810
Mark Pracht: Okay. So DC, hires Kirby, they bring in Kirby. They say we want you to work on a flagship title. All right, he says. I'll do Jimmy Olsen. He turns in his pages and immediately

439
00:41:44.770 --> 00:41:49.939
Mark Pracht: carmine infantino says these characters need to be on model.

440
00:41:50.990 --> 00:41:58.649
Mark Pracht: So basically on model for DC at the time was Kurt Swan for the Superman characters, anyway.

441
00:41:58.790 --> 00:42:08.450
Mark Pracht: And so they basically went in and redrew most of the Superman and Jimmy Olsen faces.

442
00:42:09.230 --> 00:42:16.369
Mark Pracht: and you can find you can find original artwork where it's the the Kirby style Superman face, and it.

443
00:42:16.370 --> 00:42:25.199
Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, I had already been noticing that, particularly in the 1st issue, there appear to be like 2 different styles of Superman Face going

444
00:42:26.600 --> 00:42:29.160
Sean Harklerode: I think it's Dino. I think.

445
00:42:29.160 --> 00:42:30.819
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I think Al Clastino did it? Yes.

446
00:42:30.820 --> 00:42:34.789
Sean Harklerode: How aping Kurt Swan.

447
00:42:34.790 --> 00:42:35.310
Mark Pracht: Right.

448
00:42:35.310 --> 00:42:43.180
Tad Eggleston: Right, but but, like the the early pages, have a very, very familiar Clark Kent. Look.

449
00:42:43.180 --> 00:42:43.970
Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah.

450
00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:45.250
Tad Eggleston: Well.

451
00:42:45.250 --> 00:42:52.889
Mark Pracht: I mean, and it's it's it's so odd, because you know, the the Jack Kirby body language is so

452
00:42:53.030 --> 00:42:59.260
Mark Pracht: distinctive. And then you have this, you know very

453
00:43:00.350 --> 00:43:08.279
Mark Pracht: kind of your dad's superman face on it, and it it is disconcerting, and it is weird, and it is.

454
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:13.380
Sean Harklerode: Yeah, this is almost like a Wayne boring face.

455
00:43:13.380 --> 00:43:14.100
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

456
00:43:14.430 --> 00:43:21.040
Mark Pracht: I mean, and the thing is is like, sometimes I look at it, and it seems like they redid the whole figure.

457
00:43:21.508 --> 00:43:23.950
Mark Pracht: There was this? Where was this page?

458
00:43:24.230 --> 00:43:25.670
Tad Eggleston: See, I'm looking at

459
00:43:26.040 --> 00:43:50.040
Tad Eggleston: the one in 133 that doesn't feel Redrawn is page 19. And I wonder if it's because he did so much expression in the face that there was no way to redraw around it without losing the expression. Also looks like he does a lot of pictures where you see the back of Superman's head or the side of Superman's Head, where there's not much to redraw.

460
00:43:50.690 --> 00:43:52.469
Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's almost like

461
00:43:53.360 --> 00:44:04.530
Tad Eggleston: you're the issue. He found out they were, you know. Maybe he was turning in pages as he went, and when they found out they were doing that he changed his drawing style to make it harder to do that.

462
00:44:04.530 --> 00:44:05.223
Sean Harklerode: Well,

463
00:44:07.390 --> 00:44:10.920
Mark Pracht: God God bless me for what I'm about to say! I don't know.

464
00:44:11.910 --> 00:44:23.119
Mark Pracht: I don't know that Jack Kirby could change his drawing style. I think Jack Kirby is Jack Kirby. Well, I if you're talking about that panel in the lower, right on page 19, yeah.

465
00:44:23.120 --> 00:44:23.690
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

466
00:44:23.690 --> 00:44:27.659
Mark Pracht: I I'm going to tell you. That is a redrawn face.

467
00:44:27.870 --> 00:44:28.450
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

468
00:44:28.450 --> 00:44:34.809
Mark Pracht: That is somebody drawing over Kirby's Kirby's original art.

469
00:44:35.070 --> 00:44:36.899
Mark Pracht: My thing, one thing in the.

470
00:44:36.900 --> 00:44:39.149
Sean Harklerode: Bruce Banner is, is right behind him.

471
00:44:41.600 --> 00:44:43.469
Tad Eggleston: You you mean Peter Parker.

472
00:44:45.860 --> 00:44:47.990
Sean Harklerode: Steve Rogers is in here, too. He's in the.

473
00:44:48.709 --> 00:44:53.099
Mark Pracht: But I'm also like that paneled right next to it

474
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:58.220
Mark Pracht: is like that body does not look like a curvy body.

475
00:44:58.910 --> 00:44:59.590
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

476
00:44:59.590 --> 00:45:05.639
Mark Pracht: It like it would be re, I mean, like, and there are people who have cataloged all of this stuff, and I'm sure Mark.

477
00:45:05.640 --> 00:45:06.070
Tad Eggleston: Right.

478
00:45:06.070 --> 00:45:16.230
Mark Pracht: Could tell you. You know every instance where they they redid Jack's work, and you know I

479
00:45:16.390 --> 00:45:20.860
Mark Pracht: I I kind of see it both ways I mean, like

480
00:45:22.640 --> 00:45:26.070
Mark Pracht: I do find it super interesting that

481
00:45:26.860 --> 00:45:34.549
Mark Pracht: we have Jack Kirby, one of the greatest comic book cover Artists of all time, and on these books

482
00:45:35.140 --> 00:45:37.580
Mark Pracht: they have Neil Adams. Do the covers.

483
00:45:40.390 --> 00:45:41.960
Tad Eggleston: On, the the.

484
00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:42.470
Mark Pracht: The Jimmy.

485
00:45:42.470 --> 00:45:43.630
Tad Eggleston: Jimmy Olsen, Books.

486
00:45:45.430 --> 00:45:48.360
Mark Pracht: And I think that's I think that's interesting.

487
00:45:48.490 --> 00:45:52.926
Mark Pracht: I think that that is, I I don't. I don't know.

488
00:45:53.940 --> 00:46:00.850
Mark Pracht: It's it's very clear that infantino

489
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:05.454
Mark Pracht: who was the essentially the editor in chief at that time editorial director.

490
00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:07.150
Sean Harklerode: Editorial director.

491
00:46:07.936 --> 00:46:13.200
Mark Pracht: You know. I think it's pretty clear that infantino had

492
00:46:14.030 --> 00:46:17.760
Mark Pracht: personal fondness and warmth for Jack, but I think that

493
00:46:19.290 --> 00:46:25.849
Mark Pracht: I think I think Carmine thought he had a responsibility to the company, and and I think that

494
00:46:28.410 --> 00:46:38.519
Mark Pracht: it was a different time. It wasn't, you know, like, now we can have a character look like 4 different ways in 5 different comics, and everybody's like, oh, that's just the style of that artist.

495
00:46:38.730 --> 00:46:44.470
Mark Pracht: and I think that in the seventies it was just different. I think that everything had to look a certain way.

496
00:46:44.470 --> 00:46:46.709
Sean Harklerode: Well, I mean this.

497
00:46:47.650 --> 00:46:54.850
Sean Harklerode: Now everything is batman right? What? DC. Has 20 batman books month, or however many.

498
00:46:54.850 --> 00:46:55.390
Mark Pracht: Right.

499
00:46:55.390 --> 00:47:03.340
Sean Harklerode: But you you can't underestimate the percentage of sales that superman represented for DC.

500
00:47:03.340 --> 00:47:03.730
Mark Pracht: Sure.

501
00:47:03.730 --> 00:47:05.349
Sean Harklerode: Up until the eighties.

502
00:47:06.820 --> 00:47:10.369
Sean Harklerode: So yeah, you're you're you're protecting the.

503
00:47:10.370 --> 00:47:14.570
Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, yeah, even the triangle years.

504
00:47:15.292 --> 00:47:21.900
Tad Eggleston: So so I mean, that was, that was the that was also the the era of

505
00:47:22.090 --> 00:47:29.999
Tad Eggleston: No Man's Land, and, like it, was debatable, which was the the overall moneymaker between the 2

506
00:47:30.230 --> 00:47:31.760
Tad Eggleston: had, when we time.

507
00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:36.330
Sean Harklerode: When we start the triangle years, podcast I'm awful about it.

508
00:47:37.030 --> 00:47:39.911
Sean Harklerode: Well, then, maybe that's what we'll go from here to.

509
00:47:40.670 --> 00:47:42.080
Mark Pracht: I mean, we've we've got what.

510
00:47:42.080 --> 00:47:44.659
Tad Eggleston: Read a lot of the triangles as they were coming out.

511
00:47:44.660 --> 00:47:46.510
Sean Harklerode: That was a soap opera, I mean, that was.

512
00:47:46.510 --> 00:47:47.010
Tad Eggleston: And what.

513
00:47:47.010 --> 00:47:48.930
Sean Harklerode: Weekly. Those were my stories.

514
00:47:49.460 --> 00:47:51.019
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.

515
00:47:51.470 --> 00:47:52.410
Mark Pracht: Stories.

516
00:47:52.410 --> 00:47:57.529
Sean Harklerode: My stories. I gotta pick up my stories from the comic shop on Wednesday.

517
00:47:57.530 --> 00:48:11.660
Mark Pracht: You know what I I was only tangenically like. If, like, here we are, we're in the first.st We're in the 1st episode of 4th world at at least. What 15 months of this. And we're like.

518
00:48:11.660 --> 00:48:12.159
Tad Eggleston: I think so.

519
00:48:12.160 --> 00:48:13.409
Mark Pracht: This, next, yeah.

520
00:48:13.410 --> 00:48:20.734
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, we're we're, we're we're we're. We're booked through April of 2026. If we don't have to skip any months right?

521
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:30.920
Tad Eggleston: We're already talking about what to do next, you know, and you know we might want to do some other like 4th World stuff before that. But Kirby.

522
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:32.729
Sean Harklerode: Is exploding our minds.

523
00:48:32.730 --> 00:48:39.109
Mark Pracht: Exactly. Well, it's gonna it's gonna electrocute you in the mind.

524
00:48:39.110 --> 00:48:41.499
Sean Harklerode: That electrify Jack, electrify.

525
00:48:42.330 --> 00:48:49.060
Tad Eggleston: That that is the one thing that I will never, ever, ever deny about Kirby. Kirby

526
00:48:51.330 --> 00:48:58.729
Tad Eggleston: changed the way people looked at and thought about superhero comics and what you could do with them.

527
00:48:58.900 --> 00:49:00.590
Mark Pracht: 100%.

528
00:49:02.160 --> 00:49:02.580
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. No.

529
00:49:02.580 --> 00:49:10.809
Mark Pracht: And and there is, there is visual tropes and visual stylistic choices that he makes

530
00:49:11.220 --> 00:49:13.449
Mark Pracht: all the way back to the forties and the thirties.

531
00:49:13.450 --> 00:49:14.010
Tad Eggleston: Right.

532
00:49:14.010 --> 00:49:14.670
Mark Pracht: That.

533
00:49:14.670 --> 00:49:15.030
Tad Eggleston: Bye.

534
00:49:15.030 --> 00:49:17.619
Mark Pracht: To this day people use and.

535
00:49:17.620 --> 00:49:18.180
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

536
00:49:18.990 --> 00:49:27.200
Mark Pracht: And you've never seen a more dynamic figure than a Kirby drawing. I mean, that's.

537
00:49:27.200 --> 00:49:27.850
Tad Eggleston: Right.

538
00:49:27.850 --> 00:49:39.330
Mark Pracht: It like, even when you were talking about that picture, the image of Morgan Edge leaning over his desk to clear to clear the the word balloon. Yeah, it does that. But it's also

539
00:49:39.720 --> 00:49:42.380
Mark Pracht: just visually more interesting than it.

540
00:49:42.380 --> 00:49:43.090
Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean.

541
00:49:43.090 --> 00:49:43.740
Mark Pracht: Down, or.

542
00:49:43.740 --> 00:49:54.280
Tad Eggleston: What I really caught was that the panel before it? He's standing up in front of his desk, and then he's leaning over his desk, and then he's sitting down for the next panel, and I'm sitting there going.

543
00:49:55.460 --> 00:49:57.260
Tad Eggleston: What came first? st Him deciding.

544
00:49:57.260 --> 00:49:57.630
Mark Pracht: Tab.

545
00:49:57.630 --> 00:50:02.700
Tad Eggleston: Sit down, or him deciding that they're they need. He needed a way to fit the word balloon.

546
00:50:03.110 --> 00:50:08.359
Tad Eggleston: If you're going to worry about stuff like that. We might as well just not go on.

547
00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:18.819
Tad Eggleston: My brain works. It's just how my, it's my autistic brain wondering what happened. What came 1st trying to.

548
00:50:18.820 --> 00:50:19.290
Tad Eggleston: you know, but

549
00:50:19.290 --> 00:50:26.559
Tad Eggleston: that's part of what makes it fascinating to me because he solved the problem. What problem it was I don't know. But he clearly

550
00:50:27.100 --> 00:50:36.870
Tad Eggleston: there was clearly something that he decided that this is the sequence that we need to go to. That solves a problem. I think the problem might have been. This word. Balloon's too big. I need to get the action down.

551
00:50:36.870 --> 00:50:37.490
Mark Pracht: Right.

552
00:50:38.230 --> 00:50:47.520
Mark Pracht: Well, no, I think I think I think you know famously

553
00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:54.680
Mark Pracht: both both with this this run when he went to DC. And then, when he went back to Marvel.

554
00:50:54.890 --> 00:51:03.122
Mark Pracht: he very specifically did not want to be involved with the mainline continuity of those those universes. And

555
00:51:04.180 --> 00:51:07.150
Mark Pracht: you know, there's an artistic freedom in that.

556
00:51:08.080 --> 00:51:14.560
Mark Pracht: There's also just a lot less stuff you have to keep track of, and I think that there is, you know famously.

557
00:51:15.785 --> 00:51:17.300
Mark Pracht: People have said

558
00:51:17.878 --> 00:51:26.510
Mark Pracht: and again everything is hearsay. So if you're if you're a Kirby fan or a Kirby eyed, who's listening to me? Say this, and you get really angry.

559
00:51:27.160 --> 00:51:28.770
Mark Pracht: I understand. But.

560
00:51:29.220 --> 00:51:33.010
Tad Eggleston: And I'll say one knows, angry. This is not the podcast, for you.

561
00:51:34.040 --> 00:51:36.389
Tad Eggleston: We like to celebrate comics.

562
00:51:36.860 --> 00:51:41.420
Mark Pracht: Oh, just wait, Tad, I've got things to say when we get to.

563
00:51:41.660 --> 00:51:45.569
Tad Eggleston: And I have the mute, and I have the mute button.

564
00:51:47.475 --> 00:51:52.700
Mark Pracht: But you know, famously.

565
00:51:53.120 --> 00:52:03.420
Mark Pracht: Jack was unconcerned with continuity. He was unconcerned with the way the marvel universe fit into each other, you know, like that was all.

566
00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:13.490
Mark Pracht: Stan, you know. Yeah, who thought that it would be fun to have everything function together. And you know.

567
00:52:16.020 --> 00:52:17.070
Mark Pracht: don't

568
00:52:17.330 --> 00:52:36.830
Mark Pracht: some people love both. Some people love it one way, other people love the other personally. Me. I have been famously speaking on social media for the last several months that I am so sick of Canon. It it I just don't care anymore. Just tell me your story, and that's great.

569
00:52:37.230 --> 00:52:38.040
Mark Pracht: But.

570
00:52:39.560 --> 00:52:43.670
Tad Eggleston: I'm somewhere in between. I appreciate the existence of Canon.

571
00:52:43.910 --> 00:52:50.250
Tad Eggleston: but I care about good stories, and and there's nothing that upsets me more than somebody who allows

572
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:53.429
Tad Eggleston: a change in canon to

573
00:52:55.390 --> 00:53:03.149
Tad Eggleston: like affect how they look at the. You know I have a friend who has trouble enjoying Star Wars anymore, because

574
00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:16.430
Tad Eggleston: the legends are legends now rather than canon. And I'm like. But the stories are still there, and legends mean that there are kernels of truth. Just enjoy the parts that you like rather than getting so hanged.

575
00:53:16.430 --> 00:53:17.010
Mark Pracht: True.

576
00:53:17.010 --> 00:53:18.180
Mark Pracht: Anybody.

577
00:53:18.540 --> 00:53:21.230
Mark Pracht: Anybody who feels that way

578
00:53:21.520 --> 00:53:27.820
Mark Pracht: should have been a Star Trek fan in like the early eighties, when all those novels were coming out.

579
00:53:27.820 --> 00:53:28.440
Sean Harklerode: Yeah.

580
00:53:28.570 --> 00:53:38.530
Mark Pracht: Because, like you just read them. And you're like, Oh, okay, that's a Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock. Adventure! Great like it means nothing. It's never. Gonna it's never gonna reflect in anything.

581
00:53:38.750 --> 00:53:42.980
Mark Pracht: I mean, granted Star Trek was already sort of an episodic. I've heard

582
00:53:42.980 --> 00:53:45.199
Mark Pracht: there are some great ones I need to find them.

583
00:53:45.200 --> 00:53:46.160
Tad Eggleston: They are, because I don't.

584
00:53:46.160 --> 00:53:47.999
Tad Eggleston: Finally getting into Star Trek.

585
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:48.910
Mark Pracht: And there are.

586
00:53:48.910 --> 00:53:52.509
Mark Pracht: Thank you, Mr. Cantwell. Yesterday yesterday.

587
00:53:52.510 --> 00:53:56.879
Mark Pracht: Sun. Yes, yesterday's son is an amazing book, but

588
00:53:56.990 --> 00:54:00.399
Mark Pracht: it's also there's also utter garbage, you know, it's just like.

589
00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:07.580
Tad Eggleston: I mean, the more the more you you get in a shared universe, the more that becomes inevitable.

590
00:54:07.580 --> 00:54:18.000
Mark Pracht: Yeah, well, you know, and I will always invite anybody to read Gene Roddenberry's adaptation of Star Trek the motion picture, or, as I like to call it the gene Roddenberry Kink show.

591
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:22.289
Sean Harklerode: Oh, my God! I remember reading that like 12 years old.

592
00:54:26.610 --> 00:54:27.440
Mark Pracht: There, you.

593
00:54:28.930 --> 00:54:35.820
Mark Pracht: you know it's kind of on Brand for the character, but when Kirk's like well, if somebody has sex with the probe.

594
00:54:37.730 --> 00:54:43.630
Sean Harklerode: And and being offended that people think he and Spock are in a relationship.

595
00:54:43.630 --> 00:54:44.200
Mark Pracht: Yes.

596
00:54:44.560 --> 00:54:50.889
Sean Harklerode: Not offended that they think he's homosexual, but offended that they think he could only have sex once every 7 years.

597
00:54:54.260 --> 00:55:01.540
Mark Pracht: Which, of course, you know, this is way off topic. But like, yeah, who cares? But you know it's like

598
00:55:01.540 --> 00:55:04.290
Mark Pracht: it's great is what it is.

599
00:55:04.290 --> 00:55:10.799
Mark Pracht: I remember, you know, the pervasiveness of the slash fiction in like the early eighties, was like.

600
00:55:10.990 --> 00:55:15.680
Mark Pracht: I remember, going to Star Trek conventions in the early eighties. I was like, I don't know, you know.

601
00:55:15.780 --> 00:55:21.260
Mark Pracht: 15 or whatever, and and it was just paid piles of it, you know, and like.

602
00:55:22.020 --> 00:55:29.760
Mark Pracht: anyway. But I mean, and that's I have. No, I'm not offended by it. I don't. I don't have any problem with it, but it's also like.

603
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:35.249
Mark Pracht: Wow, there's a lot of people who really wanna wanna see

604
00:55:35.780 --> 00:55:42.470
Mark Pracht: Kirk and Spock chained up in a dungeon naked, you know. It's like I've been and.

605
00:55:42.470 --> 00:55:44.150
Sean Harklerode: Real season. 3 crap right there.

606
00:55:47.490 --> 00:55:59.629
Mark Pracht: I was. I was actually very sean, as we record. Sean had a social media post last night about being in a bar watching Star Trek, and I was like, why am I not there.

607
00:55:59.915 --> 00:56:00.769
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, which spot?

608
00:56:00.770 --> 00:56:04.149
Mark Pracht: Is this, I was watching. I was doing his play. Yes.

609
00:56:04.150 --> 00:56:04.970
Sean Harklerode: Yeah.

610
00:56:06.160 --> 00:56:06.760
Mark Pracht: Today?

611
00:56:06.760 --> 00:56:08.290
Mark Pracht: Bar. What bar were you at.

612
00:56:08.290 --> 00:56:14.200
Sean Harklerode: Oh, I was at the the bar in the back of the liquor store over on Western Avenue.

613
00:56:14.780 --> 00:56:23.420
Sean Harklerode: and they had a hockey game on, and he was like you, interested in this. I was like, no, not really. They turned it on Star Trek. So I watched Star Trek.

614
00:56:23.420 --> 00:56:30.815
Mark Pracht: I'm sean Witt. I'm coming here every Saturday night, anyway.

615
00:56:31.540 --> 00:56:33.399
Sean Harklerode: Back, you know.

616
00:56:33.670 --> 00:56:34.710
Sean Harklerode: Oh, go ahead!

617
00:56:34.890 --> 00:56:35.810
Mark Pracht: No go ahead!

618
00:56:36.430 --> 00:56:42.300
Sean Harklerode: I was just gonna say, you know, we talked about Vince Coletta. And it's

619
00:56:43.050 --> 00:56:47.810
Sean Harklerode: there are some really fine work in here. There's a couple of pages that I'm like.

620
00:56:48.120 --> 00:56:54.500
Sean Harklerode: you know, are not great, but for the most part, I this is some of the better work

621
00:56:54.760 --> 00:56:57.450
Sean Harklerode: I've seen from Vince Coletta, you know.

622
00:56:57.450 --> 00:56:58.160
Mark Pracht: That's true.

623
00:56:58.160 --> 00:57:03.179
Sean Harklerode: When I look at you know his Thor work, you know some of that man must have been just.

624
00:57:03.650 --> 00:57:03.970
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

625
00:57:03.970 --> 00:57:08.329
Sean Harklerode: Under a deadline. No, no offense to to Mr. Colette, but

626
00:57:09.620 --> 00:57:10.440
Mark Pracht: Oh, no! I have a.

627
00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:13.810
Sean Harklerode: Some of this is, is really good work.

628
00:57:14.330 --> 00:57:20.130
Mark Pracht: Yeah, no, I have a. I have a actually a book about the Coletta.

629
00:57:21.320 --> 00:57:25.479
Mark Pracht: I think it's called a thin black line, I mean, and it it was.

630
00:57:26.250 --> 00:57:27.060
Sean Harklerode: Then.

631
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:28.253
Mark Pracht: It was.

632
00:57:29.220 --> 00:57:38.470
Mark Pracht: you know he was the guy that they would be like. I need 6 pages done in 24 h, and he'd get it done, and he'd get it done by erasing

633
00:57:38.940 --> 00:57:41.910
Mark Pracht: anything he thought was unimportant, which.

634
00:57:43.230 --> 00:57:49.350
Sean Harklerode: True. Now I I you know I could. I could take a look at the Kirby originals and and see where yeah.

635
00:57:49.740 --> 00:57:52.669
Sean Harklerode: Vinnie had had undone something. But.

636
00:57:52.900 --> 00:57:56.660
Mark Pracht: But I mean I I feel like that was always about deadline, and

637
00:57:58.350 --> 00:58:00.790
Mark Pracht: you know I don't know. I like.

638
00:58:00.930 --> 00:58:02.030
Sean Harklerode: Jack was.

639
00:58:02.610 --> 00:58:10.180
Mark Pracht: I don't know, I think, but I I utterly agree with you. I think that this these these books represent much

640
00:58:11.131 --> 00:58:23.719
Mark Pracht: some of Vince's best work. Obviously, once we get into the 4th or the 4th World proper, and we start getting Mike Royer in there. That's when some real magic starts happening.

641
00:58:23.720 --> 00:58:24.190
Sean Harklerode: Right.

642
00:58:24.742 --> 00:58:26.950
Mark Pracht: But it's also like

643
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:41.370
Mark Pracht: it is interesting, because when when Kirby came over, like almost immediately, there were people like this is this, art is crap. This is, you know, and the funny thing is looking at these books.

644
00:58:43.780 --> 00:58:55.050
Mark Pracht: The most egregiously bad stuff is the redrawn heads, and some strange inking choices like, I think that

645
00:58:55.190 --> 00:58:58.899
Mark Pracht: if if Mike Royer had ink this

646
00:58:59.160 --> 00:59:02.170
Mark Pracht: and they hadn't demanded that the faces be changed.

647
00:59:02.850 --> 00:59:08.379
Mark Pracht: this book would look a lot better even than it does, and it looks good now.

648
00:59:10.670 --> 00:59:13.250
Mark Pracht: So I don't know. I think

649
00:59:18.100 --> 00:59:22.880
Mark Pracht: I think that it is. It is.

650
00:59:24.430 --> 00:59:27.120
Mark Pracht: Kirby deserves every accolade that he gets.

651
00:59:28.490 --> 00:59:31.270
Mark Pracht: But there's also times when I'm just like I don't.

652
00:59:34.140 --> 00:59:42.840
Mark Pracht: I don't know what what you're trying to do, I mean. And

653
00:59:43.370 --> 00:59:48.689
Mark Pracht: I like, but that's that's near, like everybody has those moments. But

654
00:59:48.890 --> 00:59:55.130
Mark Pracht: sometimes I just think he's going so fast and he's going, you know, famously.

655
00:59:55.990 --> 00:59:58.160
Mark Pracht: He never even laid out pages.

656
00:59:58.860 --> 01:00:05.010
Mark Pracht: he just would start in the upper left hand corner and draw it, and that's astounding

657
01:00:05.800 --> 01:00:07.450
Mark Pracht: to be able to do that.

658
01:00:09.080 --> 01:00:16.170
Mark Pracht: But it also is like to put it in acting perspective. It's like improv right?

659
01:00:16.520 --> 01:00:17.280
Mark Pracht: Like.

660
01:00:17.940 --> 01:00:24.070
Mark Pracht: if you keep going. Yes, and you're going to get to the end. You're going to get to the end of the page.

661
01:00:24.290 --> 01:00:28.552
Mark Pracht: But that doesn't mean that it's all gonna work, you know.

662
01:00:29.490 --> 01:00:30.240
Mark Pracht: But

663
01:00:31.300 --> 01:00:39.670
Tad Eggleston: This is kind of how we've been feeling about airtight garage on the heavy Metal Book Club.

664
01:00:40.750 --> 01:00:47.579
Tad Eggleston: Which actually, Mobius has said was very much ad lib. He didn't know where it was going.

665
01:00:48.580 --> 01:00:52.890
Tad Eggleston: You know, made it up as he went, published as he went.

666
01:00:54.230 --> 01:00:55.330
Tad Eggleston: So I take that.

667
01:00:55.700 --> 01:00:57.020
Tad Eggleston: That sounds cool to me.

668
01:00:57.740 --> 01:00:59.004
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I don't know.

669
01:01:00.220 --> 01:01:08.999
Mark Pracht: I I also that. Actually, the 1 35 story with all these clones

670
01:01:09.550 --> 01:01:12.569
Mark Pracht: and like everybody, has kryptonite gas.

671
01:01:12.970 --> 01:01:13.680
Sean Harklerode: Right.

672
01:01:14.620 --> 01:01:18.300
Tad Eggleston: Think it was all an excuse to have hulk fight superman.

673
01:01:19.880 --> 01:01:21.429
Mark Pracht: Yeah, it's possible.

674
01:01:22.660 --> 01:01:23.030
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

675
01:01:23.030 --> 01:01:31.500
Sean Harklerode: I do love. I love the way he's drawing those energy plasma weapons.

676
01:01:31.810 --> 01:01:32.290
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

677
01:01:32.290 --> 01:01:34.850
Sean Harklerode: I love the the rays.

678
01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:38.459
Sean Harklerode: I they're just amazing superman's heat vision.

679
01:01:39.002 --> 01:01:44.650
Sean Harklerode: I just love how that's rendered, and I don't know that I've ever seen it rendered in.

680
01:01:44.650 --> 01:01:54.589
Tad Eggleston: So, as I pointed out to Mark when I 1st read it, I did not know that Superman could use his heat vision to track vehicles.

681
01:01:55.790 --> 01:01:58.110
Sean Harklerode: Well, sometimes there's our creep right.

682
01:02:01.270 --> 01:02:01.630
Mark Pracht: Well.

683
01:02:01.630 --> 01:02:04.570
Tad Eggleston: Was trying to figure out exactly how that would work, and.

684
01:02:04.570 --> 01:02:16.400
Mark Pracht: I? You know I didn't i i didn't know that Superman could pull his ass off of his chest and turn it into a giant cellophane trapping thing. But I still like Superman too.

685
01:02:16.970 --> 01:02:18.780
Tad Eggleston: That's true. That's true.

686
01:02:18.840 --> 01:02:25.380
Sean Harklerode: Plus, you know Clark Kent's, you know. Voicemail.

687
01:02:26.460 --> 01:02:32.220
Sean Harklerode: His answering machine prefigures, you know Ferris Bueller's day off right.

688
01:02:32.880 --> 01:02:34.970
Mark Pracht: Kirby created everything.

689
01:02:34.970 --> 01:02:35.360
Sean Harklerode: Right.

690
01:02:37.460 --> 01:02:40.939
Tad Eggleston: Least inspired, possibly inspired, definitely.

691
01:02:40.940 --> 01:02:41.290
Sean Harklerode: Yeah.

692
01:02:41.290 --> 01:02:52.880
Tad Eggleston: I mean, that's something I wonder about. All the time is when I see something that will remind me of a work that came later, and particularly when it reminds me of a work that came later from a creator that I like.

693
01:02:53.090 --> 01:02:56.189
Tad Eggleston: Either. No was into what I was reading.

694
01:02:56.880 --> 01:03:05.379
Tad Eggleston: or or there's a reasonable like like it came up on the Love and Rockets Book Club yesterday that Gilbert did a

695
01:03:05.570 --> 01:03:23.790
Tad Eggleston: la Llorona, retelling Michael Chabon did a La Llorona, retelling as part of Summerland, which is one of my favorite novels of his that uses a lot of different folklore from all around the world, etc. But

696
01:03:24.750 --> 01:03:26.519
Tad Eggleston: but I thought to myself.

697
01:03:26.800 --> 01:03:36.229
Tad Eggleston: you got to choose which stories to use. I don't know how. Fame, you know. Is it the Mexican folk tale? Is it their? Is it their Paul Bunyan, or

698
01:03:37.100 --> 01:03:38.090
Tad Eggleston: or

699
01:03:38.270 --> 01:03:53.339
Tad Eggleston: Michael Chamon, is pretty famously a comics. Guy had he discovered it in in love and rockets, and it's stuck in the back of his head. And and suddenly it it came out, maybe not even with him, realizing that that's where it came from, as much as he knew this thing.

700
01:03:53.340 --> 01:03:58.780
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, even even even that like

701
01:04:00.350 --> 01:04:04.000
Mark Pracht: no, nothing is created in a vacuum right.

702
01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:04.600
Tad Eggleston: Right.

703
01:04:04.600 --> 01:04:28.609
Mark Pracht: Like. And it's something that we can talk about once we're into 4th World proper. But there's a lot of people who are like certain very famous media properties stole everything from the 4th World. And I. And I'm like, Yeah, but I mean, it's also Joseph Campbell. And it's it's right. It's all of these other things, and it's it's you know.

704
01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:33.570
Tad Eggleston: I mean, in some ways Kirby is to superhero comics.

705
01:04:33.900 --> 01:04:34.710
Tad Eggleston: What

706
01:04:36.470 --> 01:04:43.800
Tad Eggleston: the beatles are to rock and roll. Everything that came after was either inspired by it or inspired by something that was inspired by it.

707
01:04:44.820 --> 01:04:47.239
Mark Pracht: But they themselves were also inspired by things.

708
01:04:47.240 --> 01:04:50.159
Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely none. None of them were new.

709
01:04:50.160 --> 01:04:52.080
Sean Harklerode: For Elvis there was nothing.

710
01:04:53.270 --> 01:04:53.840
Tad Eggleston: Oh!

711
01:04:54.650 --> 01:04:56.829
Mark Pracht: And then there was Bruce Springsteen. No, I'm kidding.

712
01:04:56.830 --> 01:05:01.243
Tad Eggleston: What what about chuck, berry, lead, belly.

713
01:05:01.840 --> 01:05:03.897
Mark Pracht: You know it's funny, because

714
01:05:05.190 --> 01:05:15.060
Mark Pracht: I was. I was on some forum, and we were talking about commandee, which I've had that conversation with with Tad. I actually think Commande is

715
01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:17.600
Mark Pracht: Kirby's best solo work.

716
01:05:17.830 --> 01:05:18.300
Tad Eggleston: Right.

717
01:05:18.300 --> 01:05:20.040
Mark Pracht: That's my opinion.

718
01:05:20.040 --> 01:05:27.739
Tad Eggleston: And I haven't read all of. I haven't read all of his commandee, but I did enjoy it, and commandee challenge is one of my favorite.

719
01:05:27.740 --> 01:05:29.590
Mark Pracht: Commanded challenge was so much fun.

720
01:05:29.590 --> 01:05:31.270
Sean Harklerode: So, right, yeah.

721
01:05:31.270 --> 01:05:35.679
Tad Eggleston: And another example of Tom King just walking in and dropping the mic.

722
01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:37.800
Mark Pracht: But.

723
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:42.669
Tad Eggleston: You know. I don't know why people let him do group things.

724
01:05:42.670 --> 01:05:44.290
Mark Pracht: But that's what it was. It was.

725
01:05:44.290 --> 01:05:46.210
Sean Harklerode: Neil Adams! Oh, my God!

726
01:05:47.670 --> 01:05:48.690
Sean Harklerode: The gorilla.

727
01:05:51.190 --> 01:06:03.079
Mark Pracht: I haven't. I haven't read that since it came out I should read it again. But but you know, it was like we were on this forum. And there was all these people who were desperately trying to prove that

728
01:06:03.890 --> 01:06:16.199
Mark Pracht: Commande was not inspired by planet the apes. Or it wasn't. It was this brand new idea. No one had ever thought of anything like this. And like we were going, there was a bunch of us going back, and it's like, Look, we know

729
01:06:16.310 --> 01:06:17.110
Mark Pracht: that

730
01:06:17.580 --> 01:06:45.600
Mark Pracht: DC. Had gotten the rights to planet of the apes, or they were trying to get the rights to planet apes. And they, they said, Can you do something with this? Kirby, of course, didn't want to just do an adaptation, so he figured out this idea. Then they couldn't get the rights. So then he changes it into something else. And they were like, Well, yeah. But you know, who had talking human like dogs. And then somebody was like, Look, here's this Kirby story from the fifties where he has talking human, like dogs and cats and stuff. And it's like

731
01:06:45.810 --> 01:06:49.729
Mark Pracht: all yeah, I think there is a desperation

732
01:06:49.940 --> 01:07:09.320
Mark Pracht: among fan circles, and it's everywhere. It's not just the Kirby stuff, but there's a desperation to prove that somehow this person had not been like. He came up with this completely, and that everyone should just bow down to him or her because they invented all of this. And it's like. That's not the way.

733
01:07:09.320 --> 01:07:09.670
Tad Eggleston: You might.

734
01:07:09.670 --> 01:07:11.129
Mark Pracht: Stuff works, you know.

735
01:07:11.130 --> 01:07:19.380
Tad Eggleston: One of my favorite things to say is, if you wanted to be completely original, you're about a billion years too late. Oh, yeah.

736
01:07:20.020 --> 01:07:25.129
Mark Pracht: Like that. That line. That there's only 6 stories is not incorrect.

737
01:07:25.260 --> 01:07:29.110
Tad Eggleston: No, there's different ways to tell each story. But I mean, it's it's also like they're different

738
01:07:29.110 --> 01:07:36.020
Tad Eggleston: ways to cross the stories, you know. I mean, there's a reason. Joseph Campbell is a thing, and Joseph Campbell, it should be said.

739
01:07:36.350 --> 01:07:47.170
Tad Eggleston: didn't create the archetypes. He looked at the history of literature and mythology, and said, This is what we've been doing for thousands of years.

740
01:07:47.360 --> 01:07:56.239
Mark Pracht: Yeah, like, yeah. Well, yeah. And that's the other thing is like, people are like, Oh, Joseph Campbell, everybody does what Joseph Campbell says. And I'm like he didn't say anything he did a research project.

741
01:07:56.240 --> 01:07:56.780
Tad Eggleston: Right.

742
01:07:56.780 --> 01:07:57.469
Mark Pracht: Put it, you know. It's like.

743
01:07:57.470 --> 01:07:58.920
Tad Eggleston: Was an anthropologist.

744
01:07:58.920 --> 01:08:04.549
Mark Pracht: Yeah, that's right. But you know, like.

745
01:08:05.380 --> 01:08:08.070
Mark Pracht: I don't even want to touch it. But you know, like

746
01:08:08.450 --> 01:08:21.150
Mark Pracht: a certain high, level comic writer who was revealed to be kind of awful recently. And now there's like Oh, he stole this from this, and he stole this from that, and he stole from that. And it's like, Okay.

747
01:08:21.260 --> 01:08:23.349
Mark Pracht: like everybody steals from everybody.

748
01:08:23.359 --> 01:08:24.199
Sean Harklerode: Be, to be.

749
01:08:24.200 --> 01:08:32.570
Tad Eggleston: Fair. There have been people who've said that about him forever, and and and also those of us who love his work

750
01:08:32.850 --> 01:08:39.079
Tad Eggleston: acknowledge that forever. What we loved wasn't that he did something completely original? It was that

751
01:08:39.279 --> 01:08:42.999
Tad Eggleston: he took these things and made them something else.

752
01:08:43.000 --> 01:09:01.929
Mark Pracht: He did them in his way, and that's the thing. It's like you can say all of this stuff, and like you know what I can go to that. That work you're citing, and I can probably go back 10 years, or I can go back to the thirties to some pulp magazine that's going to have that exact same story, or that exact same sort of style of story. And that's like that's.

753
01:09:01.939 --> 01:09:02.489
Tad Eggleston: It's 1 of.

754
01:09:02.490 --> 01:09:03.310
Mark Pracht: Works.

755
01:09:03.310 --> 01:09:09.969
Tad Eggleston: It's 1 of the reasons I've loved doing so many book clubs on this podcast. And doing them in so many different like

756
01:09:10.090 --> 01:09:15.727
Tad Eggleston: directions. You know, Sean and I will be doing comic strips later this afternoon.

757
01:09:16.620 --> 01:09:33.929
Tad Eggleston: because you get to see how the creators know. I mean, it's like it's like the musician's musician, you know. Nobody knows who I mean. Now people know who Leonard Cohen is, but for the longest time people didn't know who Leonard Cohen or Tom Waits were. But if you were a musician you did. You were a songwriter, you did.

758
01:09:34.060 --> 01:09:39.419
Tad Eggleston: You know there? There were no musicians that didn't know who Warren Zevon was.

759
01:09:39.420 --> 01:09:40.130
Mark Pracht: Right?

760
01:09:41.010 --> 01:09:41.469
Mark Pracht: Yeah, no.

761
01:09:41.479 --> 01:09:43.159
Tad Eggleston: Plenty in the general public.

762
01:09:43.160 --> 01:09:45.850
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, and it's just like, I think that

763
01:09:48.149 --> 01:09:51.930
Mark Pracht: and I think it takes nothing away from Jack Kirby to say.

764
01:09:51.939 --> 01:09:54.899
Tad Eggleston: No, if you, if you love a craft.

765
01:09:56.219 --> 01:10:04.119
Tad Eggleston: if you love an art form, you're going to throw yourself into it, not just in terms of making it, but in terms of

766
01:10:04.809 --> 01:10:08.649
Tad Eggleston: studying it and learning about it and knowing about. I mean

767
01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:21.359
Tad Eggleston: Neil Adams was a great artist, and in some ways, his his greatest contributions to comics, even though he may have overstated how much he did. Are things like getting Siegel and Schuster credit

768
01:10:21.479 --> 01:10:26.639
Tad Eggleston: getting artwork back for people, because he understood enough of

769
01:10:28.589 --> 01:10:32.079
Tad Eggleston: the foundations of what he was standing on, that he cared about it.

770
01:10:32.080 --> 01:10:35.360
Mark Pracht: Sure. Well, yeah, I mean, and like.

771
01:10:36.100 --> 01:10:41.659
Mark Pracht: well, that goes in. That goes into a whole thing where you know at a certain point

772
01:10:42.470 --> 01:10:45.400
Mark Pracht: it was also coming to an understanding that

773
01:10:45.530 --> 01:10:51.549
Mark Pracht: things like original artwork had value right to certain fans right.

774
01:10:52.180 --> 01:10:56.949
Mark Pracht: That in the 19 thirties, in the 19 forties and the 19 fifties.

775
01:10:58.450 --> 01:11:04.200
Mark Pracht: when everybody thought it was junk junk culture that was just getting thrown away.

776
01:11:05.970 --> 01:11:11.339
Mark Pracht: Like all of those artists you read these interviews, and they're like, did you get your artwork back? And it's like, Why would I want it.

777
01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:13.090
Mark Pracht: you know, and it's like.

778
01:11:13.860 --> 01:11:20.939
Tad Eggleston: You didn't, you know, and this goes even further back, like the saddest thing I've ever seen, and it also I

779
01:11:21.180 --> 01:11:26.690
Tad Eggleston: both the saddest thing, and like the coolest thing, because somebody managed to put them back together is

780
01:11:28.660 --> 01:11:35.129
Tad Eggleston: The Billy Ireland has a number of Winsor Mckay pages, but if you look carefully.

781
01:11:35.590 --> 01:11:36.630
Tad Eggleston: They have.

782
01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:38.150
Tad Eggleston: None of them

783
01:11:38.700 --> 01:11:45.840
Tad Eggleston: are intact because the family cut them up panel by panel, and sold them off. They had to be

784
01:11:47.720 --> 01:11:50.560
Tad Eggleston: re collected

785
01:11:50.880 --> 01:12:01.319
Tad Eggleston: to put together a page, because the family only saw them as like, oh, we could get $5 for the page, or we could get $5 for each panel.

786
01:12:01.570 --> 01:12:02.110
Mark Pracht: Right?

787
01:12:03.890 --> 01:12:11.410
Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, I like, there's there's a lot of famous stories of like

788
01:12:13.480 --> 01:12:16.880
Mark Pracht: DC. Editors. Would they get a good letter?

789
01:12:17.240 --> 01:12:24.330
Mark Pracht: And they would take a page, and they would slice off a line of panels, and they would mail that to the person who wrote the letter. It's like a little. Thank you.

790
01:12:24.530 --> 01:12:29.086
Mark Pracht: And you know nobody thought twice about it, and and

791
01:12:30.650 --> 01:12:49.299
Tad Eggleston: And that's 1 of those things that I feel for the author or the page guy that should have gotten paid better, but also is like the coolest thing ever that a kid could have gotten a line of panels just for said, you know. So it's like, I wish that DC. Had appropriately paid for the original art to be able to do that.

792
01:12:49.300 --> 01:12:49.880
Mark Pracht: Right?

793
01:12:50.390 --> 01:12:52.459
Mark Pracht: 1 100%.

794
01:12:52.700 --> 01:12:53.100
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

795
01:12:53.100 --> 01:13:00.000
Mark Pracht: What I'm talking about does not absolve anybody of anything. It's just that. That was the like

796
01:13:00.170 --> 01:13:09.030
Mark Pracht: you turned in your work, and it was you were done. You got paid for the the work you did, and you turned it in, and they they owned it. They owned it right.

797
01:13:09.030 --> 01:13:09.360
Tad Eggleston: Right.

798
01:13:09.360 --> 01:13:11.009
Mark Pracht: I'm doing. Finger quotes. I'm.

799
01:13:11.010 --> 01:13:14.840
Tad Eggleston: Yes, I think people heard the air, quotes I I heard it in your voice.

800
01:13:14.840 --> 01:13:15.709
Mark Pracht: Oh dear!

801
01:13:15.710 --> 01:13:17.439
Sean Harklerode: They run any past the microphone.

802
01:13:17.740 --> 01:13:24.160
Tad Eggleston: I mean, sometimes your acting skill just comes out that much. You don't even know you're acting.

803
01:13:26.530 --> 01:13:29.010
Mark Pracht: But but you know, I think

804
01:13:29.390 --> 01:13:35.049
Mark Pracht: certainly it was about this time that you know we have.

805
01:13:36.970 --> 01:13:50.390
Mark Pracht: There's a number of things that happened in Kirby's life right at the beginning, in the 19 seventies that, I think, changed a lot of things about the way he looked at the industry and the way that the industry looked at him. Right? So he moves to California.

806
01:13:50.670 --> 01:13:54.170
Mark Pracht: He is now not

807
01:13:54.890 --> 01:14:02.760
Mark Pracht: within the the tight knit New York community that is generally the the comic book publishing industry.

808
01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:03.320
Tad Eggleston: Right.

809
01:14:03.470 --> 01:14:10.620
Mark Pracht: He's got a house where he is welcoming fans into his home on a fairly regular basis.

810
01:14:11.010 --> 01:14:13.050
Mark Pracht: So he is hearing.

811
01:14:14.920 --> 01:14:37.249
Mark Pracht: he's not. He's not talking to Stan or his editors back in New York as much as he's talking to these kids that are coming in and telling him that he is the king, he's the greatest. He's God. Blah! Blah! Blah! Then on top of that the San Diego comic con starts in 71, and Jack is there for the 1st convention, and famously went to.

812
01:14:37.990 --> 01:14:43.309
Mark Pracht: I may be wrong about this, but he went to every San Diego comic con until he died.

813
01:14:43.420 --> 01:14:44.942
Mark Pracht: I believe so.

814
01:14:45.990 --> 01:14:47.070
Mark Pracht: And again.

815
01:14:47.260 --> 01:14:57.240
Mark Pracht: he's also encountering these fans who are like Oh, I would love to own a page of your original art so suddenly something that didn't seem to be a sellable commodity

816
01:14:57.770 --> 01:15:02.100
Mark Pracht: now is a sellable commodity, and it changes the way

817
01:15:03.380 --> 01:15:06.840
Mark Pracht: the the thought of what the value of those things are

818
01:15:07.510 --> 01:15:18.579
Mark Pracht: that is, not trying to say that they had no value before that, or that they weren't. They didn't deserve to get it back before that. But it does change. Why people would want it right?

819
01:15:18.770 --> 01:15:25.019
Mark Pracht: Because it's not about. I have to store these things. It's that I could sell these things, you know.

820
01:15:25.750 --> 01:15:28.489
Mark Pracht: and I think that that is all very interesting.

821
01:15:31.250 --> 01:15:38.060
Mark Pracht: and it's it is interesting. There is a there is another Jack Kirby play that was written called King Kirby.

822
01:15:38.630 --> 01:15:41.609
Mark Pracht: by Fred Van Ananti and crystal skillman.

823
01:15:41.800 --> 01:15:46.370
Mark Pracht: who, I've spoken to a couple of times and their play is is.

824
01:15:46.370 --> 01:15:49.679
Mark Pracht: Fred was around for the baseball Podcast this year.

825
01:15:49.680 --> 01:15:51.220
Tad Eggleston: Nice yeah.

826
01:15:51.220 --> 01:15:54.360
Tad Eggleston: Mets big mets fan him and Heidi Mcdonald.

827
01:15:54.360 --> 01:15:58.190
Mark Pracht: When you, when you see him again, tell him that Mark Pratt says Hi!

828
01:15:58.560 --> 01:16:01.480
Mark Pracht: I will, and that I am working on my panel proposal.

829
01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:02.520
Tad Eggleston: Cool, cool.

830
01:16:03.302 --> 01:16:09.270
Mark Pracht: But you know, they had scenes where they were talking about how

831
01:16:10.020 --> 01:16:14.040
Mark Pracht: there was this artwork that had somehow gotten out to fans

832
01:16:14.850 --> 01:16:23.484
Mark Pracht: that was now going on sale at like Sotheby's, and stuff for thousands of dollars, and Jack was seeing none of it. And

833
01:16:23.980 --> 01:16:26.440
Mark Pracht: One of the things I really loved about that play

834
01:16:27.033 --> 01:16:35.719
Mark Pracht: was that it did actually grapple with that idea that Jack was not only getting screwed by the company, but there was all of these fans who had this material that was not

835
01:16:36.130 --> 01:16:41.129
Mark Pracht: that he was not getting compensated for either, that it's somehow gotten to them. So

836
01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:45.879
Mark Pracht: I think that. And that's that's a real simplification of what's in that play.

837
01:16:46.680 --> 01:16:59.629
Mark Pracht: Forgive me, Crystal and, Fred, if you're listening because I am making it very simple, but I just love that element of it. I love that element that that's really right. In the period where this material is coming out.

838
01:17:00.210 --> 01:17:12.320
Mark Pracht: Fandom is changing into something far more organized and far more lucrative, and far more affluent

839
01:17:12.980 --> 01:17:20.430
Mark Pracht: like. There is the money to do these things, and there is the money to amass large collections of golden age books and stuff like that?

840
01:17:24.690 --> 01:17:25.796
Mark Pracht: If if

841
01:17:28.180 --> 01:17:34.580
Mark Pracht: If neither of you have watched it yet, it's on, it's on. It's you can buy it on

842
01:17:34.730 --> 01:17:42.400
Mark Pracht: prime video or rented selling Superman. It's a four-part documentary show. It's about the

843
01:17:43.990 --> 01:17:50.339
Mark Pracht: I forget what the name of the the collection is, but it was the guy. He was a hoarder, and he had.

844
01:17:50.860 --> 01:17:52.790
Mark Pracht: like thousands of comic.

845
01:17:52.790 --> 01:17:53.300
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

846
01:17:53.300 --> 01:17:53.829
Mark Pracht: In his house.

847
01:17:53.830 --> 01:17:54.770
Tad Eggleston: Think I remember.

848
01:17:55.674 --> 01:18:00.219
Mark Pracht: They were, and multiple copies like at 1 point they show he has like

849
01:18:00.520 --> 01:18:03.420
Mark Pracht: 25 copies of Star Wars number one.

850
01:18:04.260 --> 01:18:08.969
Mark Pracht: and and so, and he passes away, and his son has to

851
01:18:09.790 --> 01:18:25.020
Mark Pracht: take over the administration of this. And it's all about getting them slabbed, and and you know, and they have a the second, highest graded superman number one ever discovered. So it's a fascinating thing. But it also I thought about.

852
01:18:25.200 --> 01:18:41.330
Mark Pracht: I thought about that when this, when we were reading this is that it's like this is right at the time when all of the when somebody is like, Oh, I should buy all of this, I should buy these things, and that getting a getting a superman number one at that time would have been

853
01:18:41.780 --> 01:18:44.049
Mark Pracht: what a few $100 maybe.

854
01:18:44.430 --> 01:18:45.030
Tad Eggleston: Right.

855
01:18:45.030 --> 01:18:47.169
Mark Pracht: A 1,000 at most, and now.

856
01:18:47.170 --> 01:18:47.820
Tad Eggleston: Well.

857
01:18:47.820 --> 01:18:48.200
Mark Pracht: 2 point.

858
01:18:48.200 --> 01:18:48.600
Tad Eggleston: I mean.

859
01:18:48.600 --> 01:18:49.470
Mark Pracht: 1 million, or whatever.

860
01:18:49.470 --> 01:18:55.610
Tad Eggleston: My friend Andy loves to talk about. The comic shop he

861
01:18:55.810 --> 01:19:01.415
Tad Eggleston: grew up with was Ides in Pittsburgh and

862
01:19:03.840 --> 01:19:07.920
Tad Eggleston: They sold the amazing fantasy

863
01:19:08.070 --> 01:19:15.949
Tad Eggleston: number 15 that either they'd got. I can't remember if they were old enough, that they just kind of hung on to a couple of them when it came out.

864
01:19:16.120 --> 01:19:19.710
Tad Eggleston: or if they'd just gotten it relatively cheap. But at 1 point

865
01:19:20.310 --> 01:19:32.730
Tad Eggleston: later on, when they were looking to expand or looking to solidify something like that. They. They sold the one copy of Amazing Fantasy 15, and bought themselves a 3 story building.

866
01:19:36.100 --> 01:19:50.089
Mark Pracht: I mean like, and that's like there was fandom. There was fandom before the seventies, obviously, but I think that that kind of that kind of money in it. I just don't think it existed.

867
01:19:50.440 --> 01:19:51.035
Tad Eggleston: Right

868
01:19:52.480 --> 01:19:58.430
Mark Pracht: You know, you have people like Michael Luslin, you know, with his collection.

869
01:19:58.790 --> 01:20:00.210
Mark Pracht: But you know

870
01:20:00.370 --> 01:20:07.000
Mark Pracht: other people, Roy Thomas, all those guys clearly were collecting, and they had a bunch of stuff. But

871
01:20:07.120 --> 01:20:16.653
Mark Pracht: it just what I mean like, it's that's when the big business of fan culture started. In. In my opinion from what I've read. So yeah,

872
01:20:17.880 --> 01:20:26.370
Tad Eggleston: Well, and at some point it became an investor thing right? And and now the people that are paying that kind of money are actually.

873
01:20:27.320 --> 01:20:33.809
Tad Eggleston: it's hard to even call them fans. Some of them might be, but some of them it's just the way they diversify their.

874
01:20:34.350 --> 01:20:45.979
Mark Pracht: 1 1 of my favorite things in that selling superman thing is, there's a guy who works with the sun helping catalog this collection and everything, and he is like

875
01:20:46.660 --> 01:20:48.560
Mark Pracht: fucking hate, slab comics.

876
01:20:48.730 --> 01:20:49.959
Sean Harklerode: I hate them!

877
01:20:50.130 --> 01:21:00.439
Mark Pracht: And there's a scene where they have him with a book. They don't show what it is, so I'm sure it's not. But he's literally jumping up and down on a slab book to break it out.

878
01:21:00.690 --> 01:21:01.700
Mark Pracht: And I'm like.

879
01:21:02.320 --> 01:21:03.309
Sean Harklerode: Wow! All right.

880
01:21:03.650 --> 01:21:15.189
Mark Pracht: I mean, like, you know, and and I I love the fact that that point of view was presented by one of the major guys we're following in that story, you know.

881
01:21:16.110 --> 01:21:19.992
Mark Pracht: anyway, totally. That's my I totally

882
01:21:20.940 --> 01:21:28.620
Mark Pracht: recommend it. It's a fascinating thing, and it's kind of disturbing and kind of wonderful, all at the same time.

883
01:21:29.260 --> 01:21:29.910
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. No.

884
01:21:29.910 --> 01:21:34.290
Mark Pracht: Last thing as I. We are running out of time where I've got to get off. But

885
01:21:34.640 --> 01:21:39.310
Mark Pracht: I did want to say the final page

886
01:21:39.470 --> 01:21:50.899
Mark Pracht: of Jimmy Olsen, Superman's PAL, Number 1, 50, or 135, with the the emergence of the Golden Guardian, is one of my favorite Kirby pages, ever.

887
01:21:50.900 --> 01:21:52.490
Tad Eggleston: It. It is fantastic.

888
01:21:52.490 --> 01:21:53.130
Sean Harklerode: Yeah.

889
01:21:53.280 --> 01:21:53.820
Mark Pracht: And.

890
01:21:53.820 --> 01:21:56.559
Tad Eggleston: Next up the DNA aliens.

891
01:21:59.220 --> 01:22:05.339
Mark Pracht: And don't look at the cover for the next issue, because it'll tell you who the DNA engines are.

892
01:22:06.870 --> 01:22:12.080
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. So that that was that was fun. And I think a good

893
01:22:13.720 --> 01:22:14.620
Mark Pracht: I am, I am.

894
01:22:14.620 --> 01:22:16.640
Tad Eggleston: Introduction to 4th World, and Kirby.

895
01:22:16.640 --> 01:22:23.160
Mark Pracht: I am very excited to to jump into the 4th world proper, I think. Yeah, the.

896
01:22:23.160 --> 01:22:32.409
Tad Eggleston: Well for next month it'll be forever. People number one. New gods, number one. Mr. Miracle number one, and Superman's PAL, Jimmy Olsen, number 136.

897
01:22:32.810 --> 01:22:35.559
Sean Harklerode: We'll find out about the Dn aliens.

898
01:22:37.260 --> 01:22:38.890
Mark Pracht: The decision.

899
01:22:38.890 --> 01:22:40.920
Sean Harklerode: I said, this has just been prologue.

900
01:22:43.310 --> 01:22:50.646
Mark Pracht: Past is prologue so hopefully, hopefully, the 4 or 5 people who are listening.

901
01:22:51.050 --> 01:23:00.850
Tad Eggleston: I mean. I think we have as many as 10 regular listeners, though I will say, Hi, mom, hi, Britt, hi, Adam! Hi! John!

902
01:23:02.150 --> 01:23:05.419
Mark Pracht: Come on and read along with us on the this. This you know.

903
01:23:05.420 --> 01:23:12.109
Tad Eggleston: I kind of suspect that there are some people who do wind up kind of reading along with the book clubs, because they seem to have.

904
01:23:12.490 --> 01:23:13.820
Tad Eggleston: you know, different.

905
01:23:15.210 --> 01:23:18.000
Mark Pracht: Do you ever listen to the blank check podcast?

906
01:23:19.130 --> 01:23:20.180
Tad Eggleston: I have not.

907
01:23:20.180 --> 01:23:29.660
Mark Pracht: It's a, it's a movie, podcast. It's Griffin, Newman and David Sims. And they do series on directors.

908
01:23:30.080 --> 01:23:30.690
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

909
01:23:30.690 --> 01:23:33.810
Mark Pracht: And right now they're doing early, Spielberg.

910
01:23:34.140 --> 01:23:38.079
Mark Pracht: and the one that dropped today is raiders of the Lost Ark

911
01:23:38.260 --> 01:23:43.800
Mark Pracht: with, and they always have a guest and their guest for raiders of lost ark is Brian Macalbendis.

912
01:23:45.740 --> 01:23:46.519
Mark Pracht: So I'm kind of excited.

913
01:23:46.520 --> 01:23:48.550
Tad Eggleston: Well is that Griffin Sheridan.

914
01:23:48.830 --> 01:23:50.149
Mark Pracht: No Griffin Newman.

915
01:23:50.460 --> 01:23:51.330
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

916
01:23:51.910 --> 01:24:01.160
Tad Eggleston: because I was about to say, because I was looking at the the picture here. And I'm like it looks a little bit like Griff Sheridan. Griff Sheridan runs Bendis's

917
01:24:04.840 --> 01:24:06.931
Mark Pracht: No, Griffin. Newman is an actor

918
01:24:07.280 --> 01:24:07.800
Tad Eggleston: Gotcha.

919
01:24:08.300 --> 01:24:12.259
Mark Pracht: He's been famously campaigning to be the voice of Herbie Herbie, the robot.

920
01:24:12.260 --> 01:24:13.530
Tad Eggleston: Herbie, Herbie, the robot.

921
01:24:16.110 --> 01:24:19.339
Mark Pracht: But yeah.

922
01:24:19.887 --> 01:24:28.760
Tad Eggleston: Bendis, for for this is this fortune and Glory came up on another book club

923
01:24:30.200 --> 01:24:31.450
Tad Eggleston: recording that I've done.

924
01:24:31.450 --> 01:24:32.659
Mark Pracht: I love that book.

925
01:24:32.660 --> 01:24:37.419
Tad Eggleston: I do, too. It's amazing. If if we read it for one, I'll let you know

926
01:24:37.420 --> 01:24:42.089
Tad Eggleston: famously, famously. The very 1st graphic novel I ever got my wife to read.

927
01:24:42.260 --> 01:24:42.940
Tad Eggleston: Oh, nice.

928
01:24:42.940 --> 01:24:43.360
Sean Harklerode: No.

929
01:24:43.360 --> 01:24:49.880
Tad Eggleston: Nice. Have you read the new one, the the spider-man? I've started reading it.

930
01:24:50.770 --> 01:24:52.209
Mark Pracht: The spider-man, musical.

931
01:24:52.210 --> 01:24:52.770
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

932
01:24:52.770 --> 01:24:56.520
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I I wanna read it. I I haven't found the time. So.

933
01:24:56.520 --> 01:25:10.260
Tad Eggleston: No, I get it. But what I learned in fortunate, I think it was in fortunate glory, because there was also the total sellout that came out at roughly the same time, at least in collective form, was that Bendis's 1st foray into comics

934
01:25:10.840 --> 01:25:15.580
Tad Eggleston: personally was the shot by shot

935
01:25:16.750 --> 01:25:19.200
Tad Eggleston: adaptation of raiders of the Lost Ark.

936
01:25:21.230 --> 01:25:22.369
Tad Eggleston: When he was like.

937
01:25:22.520 --> 01:25:24.369
Sean Harklerode: 12, yeah.

938
01:25:26.420 --> 01:25:31.660
Tad Eggleston: He made like a 400 page adaptation of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

939
01:25:32.630 --> 01:25:34.589
Tad Eggleston: Well, that's probably why they asked him to do it.

940
01:25:34.590 --> 01:25:37.899
Tad Eggleston: That's my guess. That's my guess. So I'm gonna wanna go listen to it.

941
01:25:37.900 --> 01:25:38.650
Mark Pracht: You know, but.

942
01:25:38.650 --> 01:25:40.290
Tad Eggleston: Like we'll put it in show notes.

943
01:25:40.290 --> 01:25:48.150
Mark Pracht: This, this, this series this, the Spielberg series? They do. They just finished David Lynch. Actually so which.

944
01:25:48.270 --> 01:25:50.640
Mark Pracht: timing wise, they couldn't have been.

945
01:25:50.640 --> 01:25:51.220
Sean Harklerode: Right.

946
01:25:51.612 --> 01:25:57.890
Mark Pracht: But the Spielberg one has been really interesting listening to the 1941

947
01:25:59.390 --> 01:26:00.820
Mark Pracht: they, you know.

948
01:26:01.720 --> 01:26:15.200
Mark Pracht: sorry this is way off topic. But you know, the 1941 like, I've always said, there's nothing wrong with 1941 that, like 4 or 5 musical numbers, wouldn't fix, and they apparently like Spielberg, said that and and

949
01:26:15.660 --> 01:26:22.589
Mark Pracht: that they all talk about the Jitterbug dance. Sequence is like the best scene in the whole movie, and

950
01:26:23.270 --> 01:26:29.700
Mark Pracht: if there was 4 or 5 of those that movie would be amazing, you know, and it's like, but.

951
01:26:30.090 --> 01:26:31.209
Tad Eggleston: That sounds cool.

952
01:26:31.210 --> 01:26:43.649
Mark Pracht: John Wayne. They're like John Wayne said no to the playing General Stillwell, because the movie was he was like, Steven. Don't make this movie. I will think less of you if you make this movie. It's UN-american. And they're like, you know.

953
01:26:44.480 --> 01:26:46.710
Mark Pracht: John Wayne might have had a point.

954
01:26:47.910 --> 01:26:49.510
Tad Eggleston: Your main.

955
01:26:49.510 --> 01:26:52.200
Mark Pracht: Making fun of world war 2.

956
01:26:52.840 --> 01:26:54.870
Mark Pracht: An awful thing that happened.

957
01:26:56.810 --> 01:27:03.429
Mark Pracht: So it it's a bizarre. It's a great, podcast I love listening to them every once in a while. I'm like I mean, come on.

958
01:27:03.830 --> 01:27:08.789
Tad Eggleston: I'm definitely going to go. Have to listen to the the raiders episode.

959
01:27:08.790 --> 01:27:09.439
Mark Pracht: It looks like.

960
01:27:09.440 --> 01:27:13.090
Tad Eggleston: They went. It does look like they went through the the

961
01:27:13.380 --> 01:27:18.410
Tad Eggleston: the jelly trilogy they call it the 3 films with Joe Vitarelli.

962
01:27:18.410 --> 01:27:18.820
Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah.

963
01:27:18.820 --> 01:27:21.690
Tad Eggleston: And somehow managed to do 5 5 months of that.

964
01:27:21.790 --> 01:27:28.200
Mark Pracht: There are 5. Yeah, they do that. They have analyzed this Mickey blue eyes analyze that, and then

965
01:27:28.950 --> 01:27:30.900
Mark Pracht: they have. They have their.

966
01:27:30.900 --> 01:27:31.949
Tad Eggleston: And combo.

967
01:27:31.950 --> 01:27:39.709
Mark Pracht: Yeah, they have their main feed, that is, is their main thing. And then they do. They have a Patreon feed. That's their more esoteric stuff like.

968
01:27:39.710 --> 01:27:40.230
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

969
01:27:40.230 --> 01:27:42.479
Mark Pracht: When they were doing the lynch thing

970
01:27:43.310 --> 01:27:50.320
Mark Pracht: on the main feed they were doing the movies and then on the patron feed they went through. I think they went through Twin Peaks.

971
01:27:50.520 --> 01:27:52.170
Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay. Okay.

972
01:27:52.779 --> 01:28:00.040
Mark Pracht: Anyway, that's my recommendation. I love that. It's that is my Monday morning while I'm at work. I just put it on, and I. I work

973
01:28:00.180 --> 01:28:03.849
Mark Pracht: and listen to them, Riff on the movies so

974
01:28:05.620 --> 01:28:10.490
Mark Pracht: They don't. They didn't. They didn't love close encounters as much as I do so, but I don't know the name.

975
01:28:10.490 --> 01:28:11.609
Sean Harklerode: You do.

976
01:28:12.630 --> 01:28:13.500
Mark Pracht: What?

977
01:28:15.980 --> 01:28:17.850
Sean Harklerode: I'm just saying you love close encounter.

978
01:28:17.850 --> 01:28:21.950
Mark Pracht: I love close encounters best well ever.

979
01:28:21.950 --> 01:28:24.589
Sean Harklerode: I did just get jewel on 4 K.

980
01:28:25.030 --> 01:28:32.879
Mark Pracht: I just got the Sugar Land express on 4 K. Just because they did it on that show. And I was like I should watch this. I've never watched it.

981
01:28:33.710 --> 01:28:35.960
Mark Pracht: Interesting movie, anyway.

982
01:28:36.910 --> 01:28:37.560
Mark Pracht: I'm sorry.

983
01:28:37.560 --> 01:28:46.249
Tad Eggleston: For Mark Pratt and Sean Harkle wrote, this has been the 4th World Book Club on 22 panels. We will see you after the next page.