Bonus Episode: 22 Panels Book Club - Milestone

Tad and Brothers Anderson (no relation) discuss Hardware #20-21 and Blood Syndicate #18-23 as their journey through the Milestone Universe reaches the end of Milestone Compendium Two.

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Transcript

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Tad Eggleston: Good evening, everybody. Welcome back to 22 panels. This is the Milestone Book Club. I'm joined by the brothers Anderson. No relation, and we're wrapping up the second milestone compendium today. So we read, 2,

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Tad Eggleston: 2

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Ted: 2 issues of hardware.

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Tad Eggleston: It was hardware. That was what I was, 2 issues of hardware. And then was it 5 issues of.

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Ted: I want to say 6 of blood.

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Marcus Anderson: Good chunk of blood. It was a good chunk of blood syndication.

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Ted: And that's the thing, is, it was.

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Marcus Anderson: That's that's the technical term for the the arc.

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Ted: Is a chunk.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 issues of blood syndicate, 2 issues of hardware, 6. Issues of blood syndicate.

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Ted: It was a weird collection, to be sure, because, like the, they have nothing to do with each other. But, like Nope, just the 2 issues of hardware would have been too short. And yeah, so no, it was. It was an interesting read, especially to kind of see the differing approaches of

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Ted: you know what what I mean, what what each section was doing, because the the hardware one was, I don't want to say fill in like a derogatory way. But it was sort of just like a couple issues.

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Tad Eggleston: I know it was.

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Ted: Yeah, that's.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, it?

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, not in a derogatory way. But it wasn't a thing that was like, Oh, this is the essential, you know, moving forward of Hardware's character, or anything it.

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Tad Eggleston: for that matter, it wasn't even Dakota.

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Ted: That's right. It was.

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Tad Eggleston: Visiting New York.

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Ted: It was New York I couldn't remember.

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Tad Eggleston: That's right.

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Ted: Right? Because he was, yeah, he was going to get into the parkway to queens. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah, that was a fun little issue, and also this is something I didn't notice. I don't know if we mentioned this last time.

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Ted: This is what this is. A two-parter written by Maddie Blaustein, who at the time was referred to by her dead name. She hadn't come out yet, and actually, this is.

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Tad Eggleston: Was actually in a later letters column that she came out.

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Ted: That's awesome that I didn't even know. But yeah, her actual 1st writing credit was a few issues earlier. It was one of the icon issues during that story arc, but only the only like one out of that whole section. It was like.

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Ted: I think, it was the one that was mostly like Raquel journaling or something. It didn't. It didn't stand out as like a separate story, arc or anything. So it was kind of that. It was this whole separate thing. That was her first.st

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Ted: Actually, now that I say that, what's the actual publication date? Because that was, let's see, issue 8.

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Marcus Anderson: Say, it's 94, because the the

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Marcus Anderson: symposium in the story is like the science something, 1994, right? I guess it could. Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: August.

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Ted: I was wondering.

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Tad Eggleston: 4 is is the arcana, part one.

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Ted: Hey? Then that actually. So that's her first, st

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Ted: or okay, they're both listed as October, 1994. But like whichever, anyway. So this is her first.st This is the Icon issue, which I guess came out the same month, or at least they're listed as the same month. That's her 1st writing credits on for anything Milestone related. And

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Ted: and it's I mean, it's interesting because she ends up doing some really cool stuff later on. In particular, the hardware miniseries that we'll talk about eventually.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, actually let me, just because I brought it up. So it was.

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Tad Eggleston: Maddie came out in the letter page of her milestone. Media miniseries. Death wish.

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Ted: Yes.

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Tad Eggleston: She stated. Good writers write what they know, while I am by no means a police officer. It can certainly be argued that Dwayne Mcduffie is not a superhero. So far as I know. Duane is, however, an African American male, living in the latter part of the 20th century, and that is an experience that must color his writing.

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Tad Eggleston: Characters, like icon and hardware, are reflective of his experience. Marissa Rahm is reflective of mine.

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Marcus Anderson: Yep.

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Tad Eggleston: So.

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Marcus Anderson: Yeah, no, definitely. And you know, I mean, I think it was interesting in this this particular arc. It's

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Marcus Anderson: it was, you know, we started we started kind of referring to the fact that

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Marcus Anderson: it it is a departure, and it was kind of a fun departure. In a way.

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Marcus Anderson: There's a couple moments I I thought I really liked it overall. There's a couple moments just where I was like, oh, maybe somebody black didn't write that part, but it but it was but not

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Marcus Anderson: ever read much worse, and from the big 2. But

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Marcus Anderson: No, it was. It was cool and like seeing seeing hardware out of his element. There was some interesting like

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Marcus Anderson: character stuff, because this was in a lot of ways. There's a lot of team up with hardware and and

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Marcus Anderson: freaky deke.

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Ted: Yeah, who hasn't kind of been seen in a while.

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Marcus Anderson: Yeah, we did see him recent, I think, last time, very briefly, and

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Marcus Anderson: he was having a conversation I forget who with. But it was essentially about like what to do about

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Marcus Anderson: I don't know if it was what to do about Curtis, or what to do about hardware, but in regards to the alliance with Alva. You know, you guys remember this like, it wasn't a big part of the the arc we were reading at all, but it was like a page in there. And I think what came of it is he's like, Look.

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Marcus Anderson: I don't. You know.

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Marcus Anderson: We're not gonna necessarily like go after him just yet, but we'll keep an eye on him, because I don't like this Alba situation something to that effect. But in this arc

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Marcus Anderson: they seem to be good, and we actually learned that. I think I had thought that that Deacon knew Curtis's identity, but apparently he he's Curtis is keeping that from him. So he

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Marcus Anderson: essentially has a relationship with both Curtis and Hardware by extension.

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Marcus Anderson: Boy don't know.

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Ted: Yeah, it's I. I'm kind of trying to. It's hard to keep track with Deacon, because he's only shown up a couple times, as I remember, and he's always been kind of just like the it's weird to have like the tech guy for a guy who was literally the tech guy. But he's I mean he's the Black Market tech, not Black Market. He's like the Underground. He's the black hat hacker guy, you know. He's he makes a joke in this one about like, Oh, yeah, I could call it Bill Clinton's credit card, or whatever but yeah, I mean.

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Ted: I don't. I don't remember much about him, and to be fair, he hasn't sort of been in the book in a while, so I don't know, or if he has, I was kind of forgetting, I mean, like you mentioned. He showed up as like, Oh, it's, you know, secretive conversation. But

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Ted: I don't know what yeah, I mean. It seems like something that maybe they're gonna look back to later.

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Ted: Oh, for sure!

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Marcus Anderson: Yeah, like this one, you know, they they have a a new villain, Arcana, who? It's interesting because she

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Marcus Anderson: ultimately, like, you know, at the end of the arc

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Marcus Anderson: doesn't do anything disastrous, and she kind of like lets.

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Marcus Anderson: Let's everybody go cheap.

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Ted: Gets what she well, she doesn't get what she wanted, because he apparently wanted to kidnap that rich guy, but he gets saved. She just kind of fades out of it fades out of the book, and then I look this up literally never returns

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Ted: right.

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Ted: never seen again, at least not the original milestone run. So who knows what she wanted, or what her deal was? But like, I mean, I get it like you want to have a cool.

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Ted: And it's I mean, it's it's a that is a classic thing to do when you have your tech based hero, as you introduce, like the magic villain that he's totally flummoxed by. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

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Marcus Anderson: That is the relevant thing is that she's magic based. So it's like we've seen

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Marcus Anderson: we've seen hardware go against a lot of like, you know, tech

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Marcus Anderson: villains and stuff. But this is like a different element, you know. He's also, you know, geographically, out of his element, so to speak.

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Ted: Right.

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Marcus Anderson: So it's interesting. And and like, you know, there's like little little fun stuff like

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Marcus Anderson: him having to ride the subway. And

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Marcus Anderson: you know, like this is definitely an arc where I think they were. They were playing around. They're just like trying to have fun.

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Ted: Yeah, that's I mean, part of the reason that I said that this felt like sort of a fill in issue is that it didn't have anything much to do with like the ongoing stuff like Deacon appears. But there wasn't much conversation about what had been going on lately, and then, also like

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Ted: I mean, like you said, it's fun. It's weird. She's flying around, you know, zapping people and turning her enemies into like dudes in bunny suits, worshiping her, and and she has this bizarre. You know what's her name, you know, Ilsa, she wolf of the Ss. Like assistant lighting her cigars, and it's it's it's I mean, it's fun. It's wild, but it's also like it has kind of nothing to do with anything.

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Marcus Anderson: Yeah, and and there's wait. Well, oh, also, like little stuff like, you know, because, like Curtis has always been kind of cutthroat. We've spoken about that a million times about the fact that he

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Marcus Anderson: he breaks the the hero archetype in the fact that he's

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Marcus Anderson: largely uninterested in being a hero, and he's he's he's bounced back and forth with at times.

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Marcus Anderson: you know, realizing that he has to be more than just a guy out for vengeance, but it was like it was kind of refreshing when he was faced with a scenario to either stop Arcana or

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Marcus Anderson: go back and save Deacon. He's like, Oh, man, I gotta. I gotta let her go because I gotta save Deacon, and I'm like, Oh, look at! Look at Curtis making the moral the moral cause, you know. But

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Marcus Anderson: yeah, yeah, this was just fun. I don't. I don't

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Marcus Anderson: like this was 2 issues and the blood syndicate

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Marcus Anderson: arc that we read this time was much longer.

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Marcus Anderson: Yeah, it's hard to say other than that. This was this was, you know, it was fun. It was a little bit of departure. This is definitely getting into the point of milestone where, like

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Marcus Anderson: writing duties were were switching up, and I'm sure it it overlapped with people having other gigs and responsibilities. I know stuff got bumpy for Dwayne Mcduffie around the time of the well, we didn't get to the

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Marcus Anderson: static. The the static issue that was, you know, caused the big controversy, which in the long run

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Marcus Anderson: was one of the dominoes and milestone.

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Tad Eggleston: Ending in his 1st incarnation. But like that, I think, did we read that? I don't think we got there yet. I don't know.

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Ted: Yeah, I don't actually know what you're talking about. I don't know.

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Marcus Anderson: Oh, all right. Well.

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Ted: This is going to be.

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Marcus Anderson: Bye, Buddy.

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Ted: Get to it. Yeah, I'm.

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Marcus Anderson: Yeah, just brief. Just briefly, like it's there was there. So there's an issue. And I thought it was. It was tastefully handled, you know, static obviously, is no stranger to dealing with real issues. Milestone is no stranger to it. But in this particular issue it was where Virgil and Daisy decided they were going to take their, you know, relationship to the next level.

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Ted: Right? Okay, okay. You know what I'm talking about.

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Ted: I know of it. I don't remember. I know I read it because I read all of static at some point. But I don't. Yes, okay.

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Marcus Anderson: And the big fight wasn't over the content in the pages. It was over the cover image, because the cover image was of the 2 of them

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Marcus Anderson: kissing. And you see Virgil clearly reaching for protection. And

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Marcus Anderson: you know, Dwayne Mcduffie was like dug in his heels. He's like no. This is the cover of a DC. It was like, Oh, we wanna like, you know what if we.

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Marcus Anderson: you know, cut that part out, or whatever. And that that was like a bridge too far.

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Marcus Anderson: which is kind of wild because a

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Marcus Anderson: you're out. You're teaching people to be safe either way. You know what I mean like like that's probably. But whatever like that, that became a big, contentious thing. That was a little bit after this this point. So but I do. I do know Dwayne Mcduffie was doing

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Marcus Anderson: a lot. So you see, writing rules switch up a little bit.

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Marcus Anderson: because, like you mentioned Maddie Blaustein

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Marcus Anderson: is writing this arc. And there's a different artist, too.

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Marcus Anderson: Who's kinda looks like he's channeling Dennis Cowan. But but isn't Dennis Cowan.

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Ted: Yeah, I mean it.

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Ted: Yeah, I'm I'm again like I, there's a huge oral history of milestone out there that needs to exist, that I want to know about it, but just like

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Ted: it's I would be fascinated to know what kind of month by month, what was happening, because this again, this is not me shitting anybody. It's a fun little story, Arc, but it's also like, I was wondering sort of where we at in the middle of all these ongoing storylines for various books, because then we get to the Blood Syndicate stuff, and that really hits all the ongoing stuff in the Blood Syndicate story.

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Marcus Anderson: Absolutely. Yeah, which really, it moves things forward. It.

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Ted: Does like, I. So okay, I mentioned, I know I mentioned them before. And again, like, I keep mentioning those random 6 issues that I got when I was like 9 years old, and I was reading this stuff, and one of the issues in this Blood city grown was the one that I had, and so like, I had none of the context for it. In the middle of this story, Arc, following all of these different threads, and it was one of those things where, as a kid, I'm like, Oh, my God! This is a really intricate plot, and there's all these different characters blah blah. And now I read and I'm like, actually, there was. This was really kind of intricately plotted. There's some cool stuff going on.

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Marcus Anderson: Which issue was it.

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Ted: So it was issue.

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Ted: So I guess it's as good a time as any to switch it to Blood Syndicate. It was issue. It was like right in the middle of it. I want to say.

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Marcus Anderson: Was it the one where

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Ted: The cover is masquerade like, with a gun pointed at his head.

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Marcus Anderson: Oh, wait! Where were you stealing the money, or.

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Ted: It's it is the one where he steals the money. Yes, okay, and like the cover of it is, he's got.

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Marcus Anderson: I had that one, too. Yeah.

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Ted: Oh, you did. Oh, yeah, okay.

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Marcus Anderson: Well, I had a lot. I had a lot of issues.

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Ted: Right, in.

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Marcus Anderson: But I definitely I missed like a lot of the ones

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Marcus Anderson: in between. And this one. This one I had is one of the.

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Ted: Okay, yeah, this was issue 21 blood to get from mother with love. And so, okay, so this chunk of issues. So the 1st issue is actually sort of a standalone. It's Dmz doing his Dmz thing.

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Ted: you know, swinging that lamp and then sees a couple of dudes in a helicopter, I guess, working for Alva.

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Ted: tracking some like system android.

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Ted: and then they start just like randomly spraying bullets at it from a helicopter. Those bullets get ricocheted off, and they end up hitting a bunch of people in a playground below.

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Ted: Dmz tries to stop them. They have a big midair fight. There's some cool action stuff. This is early, Humberto Ramos. There's some neat paneling in some places a bunch of people get killed, and it's kind of just a big tragedy, and

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Ted: I don't know. I mean, I'm kind of. I'm kind of brushing it off because

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Ted: it just didn't really do much of anything for me like it.

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Marcus Anderson: Yeah, so I, wanna, yeah, I have a few things to say about it. Like, I obviously, like, after this issue, they get into like the the meat of this.

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Marcus Anderson: this, the real meat of this arc, where it it gets into the character heavy

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Marcus Anderson: storytelling that we're used to from blood syndicate. But I did. I did appreciate this as like a 1 shot in the sense that, like, yeah, it was cool to see early Humberto Ramos, and like, I will say, like, yeah, he was like being really

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Marcus Anderson: playful and inventive, with like paneling and stuff, you know.

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Ted: And it's not totally wordless. But there's very little dialogue, and you have.

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Marcus Anderson: Yeah, it almost reminds me of the if you guys.

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Marcus Anderson: I'm talking about the famous Gi. Joe silent issues.

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Ted: Silent interlude.

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Marcus Anderson: Yes.

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Ted: Wasn't that also a number it was. It was right around. There's like 21 or 22.

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Marcus Anderson: Was it the yearbook? I can't remember what it was. Yeah, maybe it was.

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Marcus Anderson: It's 1 of those things from my childhood. It's like, I remember the panels and everything. I don't remember the numbers.

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Ted: Oh, I mean silent interlude, man, I have read like almost no Gi. Joe. What I have read is I've read silent because you have to like. It's, you know, it's 1 of those bits of experimental, you know, Craft, that you gotta at least see how they do it. And I you know it's fantastic. I actually tangent. I played the the Gi Joe Deck building card game with a good friend of mine lately, and they

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Ted: and there is. There's a bunch of expansions for it, and one of them is the silent interlude expansion. Because I've got to have it. Yeah, it's a fun game. They're not sponsoring the show. I just thought I'd bring them up

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Ted: right.

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Tad Eggleston: They're welcome to sponsor.

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Ted: Yeah, it'd be contact us guys.

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Marcus Anderson: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: 22 panels podcast@gmail.com.

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Tad Eggleston: If you'd like to to find ways to, to give us money, we can help you.

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Marcus Anderson: That's where it has. Bro, if you like, what you're hearing, you know. Just just throw all the money at at 22 panels.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Marcus Anderson: The other thing I was. Gonna say.

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Tad Eggleston: Or Ted I mean, I'm willing to share.

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Marcus Anderson: Share.

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Marcus Anderson: Yeah, although, okay, cool. I appreciate that.

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Marcus Anderson: No. But the the other thing about this this particular issue. That was fun. That was interesting to me is it was not written by Dwayne Mcduffie. But you know, Dwayne Mcduffie, maybe around this time was doing damage control right? Which kind of dealt.

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Ted: Yes.

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Marcus Anderson: The the toll for of superhero battles like

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Marcus Anderson: for regular people like, you know.

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Ted: In a much funnier way. But still that right? Right?

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Ted: Yeah.

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Marcus Anderson: Yeah, absolutely. And like, not that this is like a 1 to one to that. But it is interesting that that cause, that that is functionally what this issue is about. It's about the toll of

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Marcus Anderson: you know all of this super action, you know. And these mercenaries who are basically just doing a job to get get some cash. And you know, they're raining down bullets which has an interesting parallel to, because, like in a lot of like, you know, a lot of urban communities on New Year's Day

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Marcus Anderson: people will. At midnight people will fire guns in the air, and then but the problem is, bullets come down. And that's essentially what happens in

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Marcus Anderson: what this in this arc here.

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Marcus Anderson: So yeah, it's it's like, yeah, it's it's it's it's also interesting just to kind of see Dmz do its thing because Dmz has always been so mysterious. Yes, and between this issue

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Marcus Anderson: and the following one, which begins the larger arc. You kind of like get some interesting character stuff with Dmz like this one.

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Marcus Anderson: You see him like

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Marcus Anderson: caring about the community that he's in and you know Dmz is be silent like he's so we don't. He's a big mystery in a lot of ways we do know. He's

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Marcus Anderson: icons world. Seemingly so. He's also an alien transplant. But like, you know, what I found interesting about this is like, okay, like this is telling me that he's not just like I'm just hanging out amongst these.

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Marcus Anderson: These humor is, I'm not just hanging out amongst these these black and brown people. I actually like feel some sense of belonging here and responsibility. So I thought that was cool. And then in the in the following issue, there's a moment where a dog is having like is really breaking down emotionally and like.

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Ted: Yes.

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Marcus Anderson: He's being comforted. And you see, Dmz like comforting him and and also flashback. But it's like, I feel like just those 2 things like this issue and that little beat

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Marcus Anderson: in the following one. It's like, Oh, that's giving me a lot about Dmz without necessarily doing a whole backstory thing.

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Ted: Yes, and that's I mean, that's the big thing about these issues is like.

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Ted: I actually have to kind of go back and check and see how much this is the case. But I feel like Blood syndicate had kind of been pulled into a couple different, like

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Ted: crossovers or bigger stories, or whatever for so long that we kind of didn't get a lot of like follow through on the regular just

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Ted: stuff they were going through like they had, you know, 1st we had, you know, the shadow pack stuff, I guess I mean, Kwai kind of had her own thing that didn't quite take it over. She was still part of the ensemble, but, like, you know, she had her own thing, we had the rat war stuff, I guess. Yes, we had the shed. So we had the shadow where we had, like the rat war stuff. Then we of course, we had worlds collide. It's

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Ted: it feels like this is them finally getting to go back to? I guess that's not the case. I'm looking through them right now.

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Marcus Anderson: Worlds world collided was the biggest interruption, I mean, arguably for everything.

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Marcus Anderson: Oh, yeah.

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Marcus Anderson: but but but I will say like one thing that that Ivan Velez was was good at was, I mean Ivan Velez was good at a lot of things, but one thing in particular

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Marcus Anderson: in regards to what we're talking about is even when they would get pulled into a you know.

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Ted: Crossover.

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Marcus Anderson: Crossover. Thank you. They would.

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Marcus Anderson: Inevitably he still would like work in like character stuff. You know what I mean like they didn't totally lose that. I mean, it got a little weird when you saw other writers trying to write Blood Syndicate. It.

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Ted: Yes.

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Marcus Anderson: It definitely didn't hit the same. But but no, I like.

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Marcus Anderson: I know what you mean, though this is like, even though, like they managed to still get the character stuff in some of the events. You know, this is like really nice to kind of see just the blood syndicate, and and like I don't know he's really good at bouncing all these characters like, you know, you don't really like lose anybody

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Marcus Anderson: and you know they're doing like like character stuff with them. It's not just like, yeah. Oh, I can shoot, you know, these lasers.

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Ted: Yeah. Now that I'm thinking about, I mean, what I remember saying about world's collide stuff is I really like the blood syndicate with stuff was the felt like the best issues to me, just because it was it. I mean, it was still Ivan Velez, and it was he was continuing all the stuff he'd been building and working on for so long. And anyone else writing Blood Syndicate felt really off and weird.

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Ted: but, like the Blood Syndicate stuff felt the most in character. Obviously so him getting. But to come back and really continue all the stuff he'd been working with is really, really satisfying, and it's great to get back to this stuff. Because I love

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Ted: God. Yeah, just seeing all these characters interact. And like.

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Ted: you know, having interesting conflicts and like going places that we don't expect and arguing and and just

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Ted: God, yeah, it's good. It felt weird to suddenly have them like mourning tech again when like in comics terms. I was like, Oh, yeah, tech. He was in the 1st volume, and never again.

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Marcus Anderson: But of course I thought it was.

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Ted: Is relevant because a.

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Marcus Anderson: It's like one thing that they do with here. I mean, it's like, if you think about it, it's like

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Marcus Anderson: the rest of the kids. It's a dysfunctional family, but it's family, you know, and it's also like nothing. We talked about that before that. That is a purpose that gangs serve. And you know, and they deal with it directly when when son is having his like crisis of leadership, where, you know, they really kind of get into like

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Marcus Anderson: who the like like founding founding people were, you know, including dog. And you know that's the point.

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Ted: Yes.

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Marcus Anderson: And and so like tech was like was there. He was like the man, you know, and like he had respect he had

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Marcus Anderson: vision. And so, you know, in some, in a lot of ways, I I see that. And and you know they also as much as they like. They're at each other's throats. There is a code, and there is.

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Marcus Anderson: you know, a certain sense of loyalty. I mean.

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Ted: Yes.

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Marcus Anderson: I would say, why, someone tests it the most.

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Marcus Anderson: but well, but it is there, it is there, and I think that that is a big part of why, like, you know, text not gonna be forgotten like it's you know.

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Ted: Right. It's not that it's unwelcome to have that reminder that text got. It's just it felt weird because it was like, did that happen like 20 years. It feels a long time ago because it was. I mean, it's, you know, thousands of pages ago. But yeah, no, you're absolutely right about that. And when you said something about you know that Weisson is the one that tested the most. You're right, until in this section of issues we can't masquerade, pulling the big betrayal on the group, which was a big moment. And like, that's a great transformation. And like it's been building up to for so long, where, like fade and

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Ted: flashback, I think, discovered that masquerade was was born a woman, and, like nobody else, knows. But everyone like knows that masquerade is apparently gay, or like.

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Marcus Anderson: Only, I think, only fade knows, because because masquerade pulled this mutually assured destruction thing with him. Right.

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Ted: Which is the.

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Marcus Anderson: Essentially like, if you out me, I'm going to out you. Yeah, that's right, Stoke.

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Ted: Yeah, it's that very. It's really toxic. And I do love that like, yeah, like a family. They've got some toxic elements to their relationships, too. I.

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Marcus Anderson: Yay!

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Ted: I love them, you know, talking about the money that they've gotten, and they were able to spend some money and renovated the factory. And then, yet they also have very little left, and so now they have to figure out, well, what do we do like? What do we go back to robbing crack houses. And like.

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Ted: yeah, I guess so. And that just complicates things and makes things worse. Because then.

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Ted: yeah, Kwai gets shot, and that, you know, produces new complications they capture. So one thing I think, I missed

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Ted: the guy that they capture at that crack house, and I also appreciate. By the way. This is one of those great little moments where, as soon as the Blood City shows up at this crack house, the guards like, Oh, yeah, okay, let me call it the boss. He comes out and just gives him a sack of money, and he's like, Okay, look, don't burn us down, and you can just take part of the profits. And of course, then they burn it down anyway, because they got their yeah. But

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Ted: the

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Tad Eggleston: Because then it's I mean, they've already discussed this. Yeah.

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Ted: You got to.

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Tad Eggleston: If they're taking down the crack house, it's not stealing, it's being paid for service.

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Ted: Yes, yeah, no. It's great that they I love. Yeah, I love how they.

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Tad Eggleston: I did actually really like the the discussion that the the.

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Marcus Anderson: Debate.

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Ted: The group.

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Tad Eggleston: Debate and the moral justification that they created for themselves, for for

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Tad Eggleston: and for that matter, one of the things that I, you guys, have touched on this. But what I loved about this arc is overall.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, they they robbed the crack house, and and you've got hints towards

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Tad Eggleston: some experimentation going on with with

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Tad Eggleston: with bang babies with whatever the system is. That's that's plucking people. But overall, it's it's light on

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Tad Eggleston: plot motion to give room for character development. And you thank you.

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Tad Eggleston: Personal development to really breathe for relationships and stress to show.

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Tad Eggleston: For you know there's that moment, whereas Kwai is healing herself

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Tad Eggleston: like everybody else, is healed and like

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Tad Eggleston: that, and this also bad props.

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Ted: Completely completely destroys brick house.

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Ted: Yes, this, the art of this issue, like crisscross, has always been you too fantastic.

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Marcus Anderson: He's elevating. Yeah.

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Ted: This is so good that.

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Marcus Anderson: Sequence, of.

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Ted: I don't know who the colorist was, either, but the color on that sequence is fantastic. It's just like this. Whole set of issues has some really great coloring, penciling, inking, too. Like, it's yeah, these, this section right here. This is some of the best art like I've seen yet in the milestone stuff. It's really good. There's these great close-ups on Mother.

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Tad Eggleston: And that's actually.

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Ted: The worst issues.

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Tad Eggleston: Because, like we haven't been upset with milestone art.

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Ted: Oh, God, no! We've been starting off with John Paul Leon. Like right? He's greatly close

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Ted: ups of mother in that last yeah, that's what you mean?

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Ted: God, yeah, there's really cool fish inking and shading. Yeah, no, these.

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Ted: just like visually alone. They also these issues are also great. But yeah, this is. This is Ivan Velez getting to continue the stuff that he's been building the whole way through. And it's really

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Ted: like God. I knew. Going into this I was going to like icon. I already knew. I like static. I liked hardware. I had kind of forgot how good blood Syndicate is, too, because it really has the most.

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Ted: I don't know about the most.

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Marcus Anderson: No, it's my favorite blood. Cynic is my favorite, though.

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Ted: Yeah, it's like, there's such good character dynamics. And they get balanced so well. And all these characters have interesting nuance, and they get cool powers. And it it works really well. I love every element of it. It's a really good.

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Tad Eggleston: Facebook.

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Tad Eggleston: This interpersonal dynamic

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Tad Eggleston: is what people always tell me that they love about X-men, that I haven't read enough X-men that

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Tad Eggleston: actually capture it. I'm certain that it's out there.

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Marcus Anderson: It's definitely there, and whether.

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Tad Eggleston: Least, I'm mostly certain that's out there.

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Marcus Anderson: Yeah, but yeah.

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Ted: I was always a generation X guy. But yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Really.

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Marcus Anderson: Come on stuff. We definitely had that.

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Ted: Oh, yeah. But yeah, sorry.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, go ahead, you know, again, you know, to to be able to really get interpersonal

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Tad Eggleston: relationships, particularly in a group dynamic

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Tad Eggleston: requires giving a story more room to breathe than superhero comics normally do.

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Marcus Anderson: Well, I wanted to. Oh, go ahead, sir.

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Tad Eggleston: And I well, I just meant I really felt like that was

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Tad Eggleston: done. Really. Well, there was just enough

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Tad Eggleston: action and plot development going on that you were unlikely to have anybody sitting back going. Why is this superhero comic with just people talking.

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Ted: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: But not so much that there wasn't a lot of room for people to just talk.

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Ted: Yeah. Well, it the cool action with.

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Tad Eggleston: Feel.

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Ted: Yeah, with with not Templo, the other guy, Oro, or, like Oro, chasing another kid and then getting captured by some system agents, and then also the masquerade fight with the system. Guy. Yeah, that

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Ted: no great, very good.

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Marcus Anderson: Well, one thing that's really relevant is, and I mean, I will always, like, you know, try to give Ivan his flowers, because, like I think he's like really talented. He's versatile as a writer, but, like I brought up in a past episode, he had an indie comic in the nineties called Tales of the Closet, and it was.

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Marcus Anderson: It was very love and rockets, esque, you know. But but it was his own thing, and essentially it was like these these kids in in these high school kids. And they

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Marcus Anderson: they were all somewhere on the spectrum of queerness. And this is in the nineties, you know, and and they were diverse, too, like, I think I think there were some some, you know, black kids, you know.

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Marcus Anderson: Latino kids, some white kids, maybe

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Marcus Anderson: Asian. So. But yeah, like. But he he really balanced it in that way that, like, you know, you get from like a Jaimez

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Marcus Anderson: Jaime Hernandez book like that. That type of like, you know, just cool character. Just realistic

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Marcus Anderson: interplay between between characters and people. And I feel like he's. That's what makes him such a good fit here for this team book, because he's literally bring kind of bringing that indie comics. Character based

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Marcus Anderson: type, almost slice of life, even though they have superpowers like, you know, thing to a superhero book. And I think

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Marcus Anderson: it's a cool dynamic, and let alone that it's

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Marcus Anderson: this mostly black and brown team. And they and they're a gang, you know, and you're dealing with some of the realities of

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Marcus Anderson: some people's urban life, you know. So I just this. That's these are all the things that make blood syndicate. One of my favorite books.

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Ted: Yeah, no, I mean, it's. And again, like it's

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Ted: the focus comes on and off different characters in cool ways, and even like tiny moments like flashback, you know, going into the thing and and finding it harder and harder to interact with people so like, he punches the guy and is like concentrating, and it takes 2 or more seconds to for the guy to actually feel the punch, you know, even though just the little bits along the way, but then also quiet, getting that that desperate moment where she's only just joined the group. But she's already part of it, and everyone's worried about her. Yeah. Oof.

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Ted: yeah, this

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Ted: the masquerade stuff where he's betraying the team and realizes how badly he's screwed up like after he's already done it. But they both realize

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Ted: that. Like, yeah, there's no way he can come back. So it's yeah.

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Ted: Got it just going back to these issues like it is

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Ted: icon and hardware and static. Got a lot of the of the.

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Ted: I think, got the lion's share of the press both at the time, and now I feel like I don't actually know if that's true, but I mean it. It seems like they they did, because they were the ones that also had the most.

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Ted: the most sympathetic characters. No.

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Marcus Anderson: It was they were. They were the cleaner team. You know what I mean. It's like.

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Ted: Yeah.

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Marcus Anderson: You know, I was about to make a

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Marcus Anderson: they make a hip, hip, hop reference. But you know, but it's like they were. They were the yeah, yeah, like they were. They're more palatable, you know. Yes, I mean.

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Marcus Anderson: they're not. They're not members of a gang who go around burning down crack houses and stealing the money, and some of them are also addicted to crack like it. Yes, yeah.

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Marcus Anderson: right. But you know, they're all. It's all. It's all complicated and

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Marcus Anderson: like like, that's that's what I love about about milestone that they were willing to get complex and like, you know,

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Marcus Anderson: like, just just in this arc, right? Like you. You. They're bouncing so much, you see, a masquerade kind of goes through

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Marcus Anderson: before he ends up taking the money like he. He's weighing what to do like. He blows up at

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Marcus Anderson: at a not 3rd rail.

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Marcus Anderson: 3rd room.

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Ted: I thought it was brick. No, you're right registered. I think it.

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Marcus Anderson: 3rd rail. Yeah. 3rd rail. Yeah. Yeah. And it said, I don't think they use. They use his his

318
00:32:32.596 --> 00:32:37.799
Marcus Anderson: superhero name that often. But yeah, still like. And you know, they've had their. They're back in.

319
00:32:37.810 --> 00:32:53.144
Marcus Anderson: poor thing, and you know 3rd Rail, who largely is one of the more sympathetic characters. One of his flaws is he throws when he, when him and masquerade get into it, he ends up, throwing like oftentimes homophobic slurs his way

320
00:32:53.510 --> 00:32:54.250
Ted: Wow!

321
00:32:54.550 --> 00:33:01.609
Marcus Anderson: Their way, I guess, and and but you know, like, in a way that it's like, obviously, the book's not condoning. It's just kind of like this is.

322
00:33:02.493 --> 00:33:07.350
Marcus Anderson: You know, a lot of guys deal, especially at this time dealt with.

323
00:33:07.530 --> 00:33:08.185
Marcus Anderson: They're

324
00:33:09.120 --> 00:33:15.810
Marcus Anderson: disagreements in this messed up way, you know and but also masquerade is being mad. Toxic, too, and.

325
00:33:15.810 --> 00:33:16.180
Ted: Jeff.

326
00:33:17.130 --> 00:33:21.520
Marcus Anderson: So it's interesting because it cause these complex. And

327
00:33:21.610 --> 00:33:25.850
Marcus Anderson: when he kind of like storms off and is in his own thing and his own thoughts.

328
00:33:26.290 --> 00:33:31.950
Marcus Anderson: It's interesting, because, even though like masquerade does mess up, it says, mess up stuff all the time.

329
00:33:32.120 --> 00:33:38.601
Marcus Anderson: You still empathize with them to a certain degree, because you or them cause you. You really kind of see their

330
00:33:39.610 --> 00:33:41.630
Marcus Anderson: just their turmoil, you know. And and

331
00:33:42.070 --> 00:33:57.008
Marcus Anderson: so and this is this is 94, too. It's it's not that we're in evolved times, not by any means. But like we're, it's less evolved, you know, especially when it comes to the identity issues that masquerade is dealing with, you know, and

332
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:15.009
Ted: So. No, I was about to say. We also had at least one sequence where masquerade and his like visited his grandma. And yeah, I'm also not sure what pronounce to use, because well, again, we're working off of this comic. That itself wasn't always sure what pronounce, but like we saw that scene of like masquerade visiting his grandma. And like that, was this interesting, sympathetic moment.

333
00:34:15.260 --> 00:34:21.600
Ted: Yeah, so it's the book doesn't let anybody off the hook. But it. Also, you know, it's

334
00:34:21.870 --> 00:34:27.589
Ted: yeah. You feel everybody's. You feel everybody's motivations and pains and and

335
00:34:28.090 --> 00:34:33.069
Ted: circumstances. And I it's it's so well balanced. God. Yeah, no, I.

336
00:34:33.070 --> 00:34:33.460
Marcus Anderson: Yeah.

337
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:49.029
Ted: These issues. Man. The thing that I was going to mention, though, that they kind of slipped by me, or I feel like I missed something was. So they grabbed a guy out of the crack house that they burned the one who shot Kwai, which comes back later, because then once Kwai heals herself. It's a question of like, well, should we? You know.

338
00:34:49.409 --> 00:34:56.919
Ted: we basically kept him for you to decide what you want to do with him? Do you want to get revenge, or whatever? And of course she's too, you know she declines the offer.

339
00:34:57.549 --> 00:35:01.709
Ted: But that kid is apparently also apparent, related to wise son.

340
00:35:01.710 --> 00:35:06.700
Marcus Anderson: Yeah, I I interpreted. He's like a cousin, because, like he was talking about, he's gonna tell his mom.

341
00:35:07.040 --> 00:35:31.145
Marcus Anderson: you know who you understand to be a relative, so they don't say exactly what the relation is, but there! And but they don't. They don't reveal that immediately, like why, and that that's like classic blood syndicate. Because why, son, is like grab the kid. And we're not 100 sure, initially like why, what his motivations are. But then, afterwards, when he has has the kid, and they're interrogating him.

342
00:35:31.680 --> 00:35:40.269
Marcus Anderson: That's where he lets it out, and he's like, look! I don't even care. It doesn't matter that your family? If she dies, then you know that's it for you. Yeah.

343
00:35:40.270 --> 00:35:45.889
Ted: I guess I was just confused because it didn't come up before then. There wasn't any moment where it's like, hey, man, I know you. You're So-and-so's kid.

344
00:35:45.890 --> 00:35:54.439
Marcus Anderson: No, you were meant to be surprised like at that moment when you read it like it wasn't you didn't miss it. It was like it was meant to be not revealed until that point.

345
00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:58.173
Marcus Anderson: Yeah, this also. This sequence I just remembered also had this the bit with

346
00:36:00.270 --> 00:36:04.819
Ted: Blah blah! Oh, boogie booggies be revealed.

347
00:36:04.820 --> 00:36:05.459
Ted: Yeah, that was.

348
00:36:05.460 --> 00:36:07.409
Marcus Anderson: Which had been partially revealed, because.

349
00:36:07.640 --> 00:36:11.040
Ted: Right like I think we knew it. And then Flashback.

350
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:13.920
Marcus Anderson: Figured out a certain point, and it was.

351
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:14.480
Ted: Yes.

352
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:18.910
Marcus Anderson: Them, and he also has a crush on her, too, you know.

353
00:36:18.910 --> 00:36:19.660
Ted: Yes.

354
00:36:19.660 --> 00:36:25.100
Marcus Anderson: Which which is, I'm assuming it's gonna remain unrequited. But you know we'll see.

355
00:36:25.100 --> 00:36:34.040
Ted: Yeah, that's this reminded me. That's that's why I got confused. Flashback knew about Boogie and then right

356
00:36:34.160 --> 00:36:44.223
Ted: Faye knew about masquerade, and well, they knew about each other. But flashback. Okay, yeah, that's that's what I was confused about, like I knew flashback to somebody's secret, but not to her, anyway?

357
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:46.566
Ted: yes. Okay.

358
00:36:47.180 --> 00:37:00.339
Ted: yeah, no, that it was a little. It just was like a momentary hitch from like, wait. Did they mention that? Did I miss it. What? But it didn't like, you know. It was interesting again, and it also like there was a reason that they showed us that where it's why, son.

359
00:37:00.750 --> 00:37:16.110
Ted: you know, he wasn't planning to kill the kid himself. He obviously had sort of this ulterior motive for keeping the kid around, which was basically just to kind of detest Kwai or see what would happen with Kwai. And also just to, you know, not, you know, kill family.

360
00:37:16.420 --> 00:37:20.989
Ted: But it's also yeah. Ysun has these.

361
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:26.360
Ted: Yeah, they're all they're all interestingly complex. I mean, the one thing that I guess would.

362
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:33.339
Ted: The one thing that I feel like is we were talking about 3rd rail a little earlier, and I feel like he's almost he's the one who's sort of the least.

363
00:37:33.790 --> 00:37:42.190
Ted: I get the least feeling of what he is, because most of what we've seen of him so far is like he's super into breakhouse, which okay, cool.

364
00:37:42.210 --> 00:37:49.260
Ted: He's occasionally like homophobic towards masquerade, and I don't really know a whole lot else about.

365
00:37:49.690 --> 00:37:50.250
Ted: Did he?

366
00:37:50.250 --> 00:37:56.919
Marcus Anderson: Definitely, he definitely implies about like some family. Yeah, with his father.

367
00:37:57.450 --> 00:37:58.290
Ted: Yes, but it.

368
00:37:58.290 --> 00:37:59.679
Marcus Anderson: Exactly what it was. Yeah.

369
00:37:59.680 --> 00:38:08.160
Ted: Yeah, me, too. I'm I'm blanking on it, too. I don't know. I just. I want him. He feels the least developed to me, or at least the least.

370
00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:11.940
Ted: I don't know the he I don't know. I don't know what what's in his head, you know. I don't.

371
00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:17.149
Ted: Well, a lot of, yeah, absolutely. And a lot of what we know about him is in relationship to his.

372
00:38:17.300 --> 00:38:25.066
Marcus Anderson: Relationship with a brick house, and vice versa, too, you know, which is, is still, you know, their dynamic is interesting, and

373
00:38:25.420 --> 00:38:37.690
Ted: Yes, and it is a good like. It's a very. It's a very X-men dynamic, you know. It's oh, I wish you know we're in love, and I wish you could see how beautiful she is, because she's, you know, looks like a monster. It's it's super marvel. But but this is a good.

374
00:38:37.690 --> 00:38:40.419
Marcus Anderson: Free, free gambit, right free gambit and rogue.

375
00:38:40.420 --> 00:38:41.119
Ted: Oh, yeah, I mean this.

376
00:38:41.120 --> 00:38:44.639
Marcus Anderson: There's been other versions. Well, Gambit, no, gambit didn't come along until that was like 90.

377
00:38:44.640 --> 00:38:45.079
Marcus Anderson: No, no, no.

378
00:38:45.080 --> 00:38:46.190
Ted: He was engaged with it.

379
00:38:46.190 --> 00:38:47.179
Marcus Anderson: It was in play. Yeah.

380
00:38:47.180 --> 00:38:50.299
Ted: It was like 93. And the Jim Lee stuff was 91. So yeah, he was.

381
00:38:50.300 --> 00:38:51.769
Marcus Anderson: Right? Right? Right? Okay. Alright.

382
00:38:51.770 --> 00:38:54.401
Ted: Yeah, you're right, anyway.

383
00:38:55.060 --> 00:38:56.950
Marcus Anderson: And the animated series was out at this point.

384
00:38:56.950 --> 00:38:59.610
Ted: Yes, there we go. Yeah, that's the real. I mean, that's how I know him.

385
00:38:59.610 --> 00:39:01.670
Marcus Anderson: I was trying to get my timing through my timing.

386
00:39:03.038 --> 00:39:20.949
Ted: But yeah, I mean this, this shadow cabinet or shadow cabinet. This is the Blood City, the Shadow Cabinet. By the way, the shadow cabinet stuff that popped up was fun, because there were literally like 2 mentions, and one of them was masquerade, using his like. The the thing. I forget how we got that. Did you like? Take it from.

387
00:39:20.950 --> 00:39:24.776
Marcus Anderson: It was back. You know what it was back. It was back during the

388
00:39:25.210 --> 00:39:27.469
Marcus Anderson: the Shadow War, or whatever the war with.

389
00:39:27.470 --> 00:39:27.940
Ted: Right.

390
00:39:27.940 --> 00:39:30.249
Marcus Anderson: Kevin and the the other team.

391
00:39:30.510 --> 00:39:30.890
Ted: Yeah.

392
00:39:30.890 --> 00:39:41.370
Marcus Anderson: It was when they were coming around trying to recruit, and they give him one to masquerade. So it's funny, because masquerade is doing that thing where he's like, okay, I'm cashing in this thing now.

393
00:39:41.390 --> 00:39:45.100
Marcus Anderson: and they're like, Oh, come on, dog! That's that was 2 years ago.

394
00:39:45.100 --> 00:39:57.259
Ted: Yeah, he's like, yeah, no, we're not doing that anymore. And it's like that one page. Then they fade out. And then, similarly, there was another sequence where Oro tries something kind of similar. He just kind of shows up. And they're like, Yeah, we're done here, too, or no. It's.

395
00:39:57.260 --> 00:39:59.019
Marcus Anderson: No, they brought him there, but it was.

396
00:39:59.020 --> 00:39:59.440
Ted: Wire here.

397
00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:10.009
Marcus Anderson: Him his walking papers here. Exactly, but I gave him severance, which you know that's interesting to know, to find out that there is a, you know, financial compensation for the Shadow Cabinet.

398
00:40:10.010 --> 00:40:14.767
Ted: Yeah, I mean, I wonder if you get dropped from the Justice League. Do you like? Do you get to keep the pension? Or you know.

399
00:40:14.950 --> 00:40:18.199
Marcus Anderson: They never explained that I feel like I don't think I don't think there's

400
00:40:18.380 --> 00:40:22.529
Marcus Anderson: wait. Has has it ever been clarified? I don't think the Justice League is paid.

401
00:40:22.530 --> 00:40:25.460
Ted: I? Well, I mean, depends a different version of the Justice League.

402
00:40:25.460 --> 00:40:26.529
Marcus Anderson: Who's writing? Yeah, probably.

403
00:40:26.530 --> 00:40:40.609
Ted: Yeah, exactly. I was just remembering. There's like in in part of Morrison's Jla. At 1 point Huntress gets fired from the Jla by batman, and then I think I don't know. I think all she does is like she tries her codes later on, and it doesn't work, because, of course, she got fired. But then she tries a different code that she picked up. Anyway.

404
00:40:40.910 --> 00:40:44.619
Ted: Yeah, talk about other superhero teams.

405
00:40:44.620 --> 00:40:49.900
Marcus Anderson: And I do know that the avengers had. They. They're they're all wrapped up with with the government. They're.

406
00:40:49.900 --> 00:40:51.800
Ted: They had the little cards and stuff. Yeah.

407
00:40:51.800 --> 00:41:00.210
Marcus Anderson: And there was a thing at 1 point. I don't know if they if they kept that, there was a thing at 1 point where I think that there's a certain it was either 5 or 6 members that they

408
00:41:00.300 --> 00:41:03.109
Marcus Anderson: was the number that they had to maintain at any given time.

409
00:41:03.110 --> 00:41:04.990
Ted: Oh, to like, maintain legal status.

410
00:41:04.990 --> 00:41:09.960
Marcus Anderson: Yeah, I remember. I remember that when, like when Captain Marvel, Monica Rainbow, Captain Marvel

411
00:41:09.990 --> 00:41:15.339
Marcus Anderson: became the leader of the team because there was a whole they got. We get into that that government stuff about

412
00:41:15.550 --> 00:41:18.740
Marcus Anderson: their other team. Anyway, that's I digress.

413
00:41:18.740 --> 00:41:28.129
Ted: No, I always love thinking about like, how does this stuff actually work with sort of, you know? Do do they get paid? How do we handle this stuff? This is the same thing that gives us, you know, damage control for various reasons.

414
00:41:28.383 --> 00:41:33.990
Ted: What was the superhero book I was just reading that had something similar where they were talking about, like real world pay aspects or

415
00:41:34.100 --> 00:41:35.350
Ted: something. Yeah.

416
00:41:35.350 --> 00:41:37.509
Marcus Anderson: Yeah, I feel like, I read something recently.

417
00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:44.510
Ted: There was a there was a Kickstarter book a few years ago or no. It's it's currently coming out, anyway. Then

418
00:41:44.750 --> 00:41:59.139
Ted: getting off topic. But yeah, this this blood syndicate stuff continues to be excellent. I I know I read it all at 1 point, but I don't have any memory of what happens after this point. I mean the one, the one negative thing I could say about this, and it's not even really.

419
00:41:59.140 --> 00:42:07.149
Tad Eggleston: Actually I was floating through the table of contents for for the next compendium. It's going to be a long time before we see.

420
00:42:07.150 --> 00:42:07.970
Tad Eggleston: Oh, man!

421
00:42:07.970 --> 00:42:09.730
Tad Eggleston: Thanks! Oh, my man!

422
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:12.030
Ted: That sucks, I will.

423
00:42:12.700 --> 00:42:21.669
Ted: The one thing that I will say that is almost a negative, but not really, but is, I don't. There's not as much because it's like you said, this is not very plot heavy.

424
00:42:21.680 --> 00:42:24.420
Ted: There's so many things being juggled. I don't

425
00:42:24.430 --> 00:42:37.409
Ted: know what's going to happen like. I don't immediately know what the next big thing is going to be like. We've got tempo has been revived, apparently, and stuff's happening there. Masquerades obviously still on the run, but has been captured by mother. You know we got stuff with with.

426
00:42:37.410 --> 00:42:41.530
Tad Eggleston: I feel like the next big thing is, whatever's going on with mother and system.

427
00:42:41.530 --> 00:42:47.049
Ted: Yeah, I guess you're right. I guess it does all boil down to mother and system, because that's also involving masquerade and tempo and everything else.

428
00:42:47.050 --> 00:42:47.690
Tad Eggleston: Right.

429
00:42:47.690 --> 00:42:53.610
Ted: But whatever it's building to, yeah, I'm excited to see it. But, God, it sounds like we're not going to get there for a while. Grapes.

430
00:42:53.610 --> 00:42:54.910
Tad Eggleston: It's going to be a little while.

431
00:42:54.910 --> 00:42:56.400
Ted: And why we always going to.

432
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:57.220
Tad Eggleston: Wait a little while.

433
00:42:57.220 --> 00:43:01.200
Marcus Anderson: Wait. Can somebody clarify? Because ironically, this ties into the

434
00:43:01.230 --> 00:43:05.399
Marcus Anderson: this is a just a this week in Marcus. But, like I,

435
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:23.909
Marcus Anderson: I did some serious organizing of my back issues. I'm not even done yet, but like of my floppy comics. And I'm really contemplating just getting like the DC. And marvel apps because they release too much stuff. You know what I mean does does. But does the DC. App have milestone books in it, like the original.

436
00:43:23.910 --> 00:43:24.340
Tad Eggleston: Yes.

437
00:43:24.340 --> 00:43:24.820
Marcus Anderson: Books.

438
00:43:25.250 --> 00:43:29.799
Tad Eggleston: Yes, I've been reading most of the stuff on the DC. App. There.

439
00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:31.729
Marcus Anderson: What is that? Is that like, I think it's like.

440
00:43:33.260 --> 00:43:37.290
Tad Eggleston: Think I think it's as low as 8.

441
00:43:37.710 --> 00:43:38.180
Marcus Anderson: Okay.

442
00:43:38.551 --> 00:43:41.830
Tad Eggleston: But if you get, if you do it

443
00:43:42.260 --> 00:43:48.109
Tad Eggleston: annual for like a hundred, you get a lot more vertigo, and you get.

444
00:43:48.160 --> 00:43:51.809
Marcus Anderson: New books, I think a week after they come out.

445
00:43:52.180 --> 00:43:53.589
Tad Eggleston: That sort of thing.

446
00:43:53.730 --> 00:43:57.080
Marcus Anderson: Wait. If you do the cheaper one. There's vertical stuff that you just can't access.

447
00:43:59.040 --> 00:44:03.370
Tad Eggleston: There's not as much vertigo stuff that you can access if you're going the cheaper route.

448
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:08.909
Marcus Anderson: Oh, boo! Alright! So I you know that we could talk about this off air I just but but.

449
00:44:08.910 --> 00:44:14.080
Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, it's not a bad thing to talk about on air, either. People who want to read along, you know.

450
00:44:14.080 --> 00:44:15.259
Marcus Anderson: Do they have? Do they have the.

451
00:44:15.260 --> 00:44:15.810
Tad Eggleston: Figure out! How.

452
00:44:15.810 --> 00:44:23.059
Marcus Anderson: This is my main question for asking. Do they have the milestone stuff that's kind of in between, like the wise son miniseries and the death wish and.

453
00:44:23.580 --> 00:44:24.090
Marcus Anderson: So.

454
00:44:24.730 --> 00:44:29.420
Tad Eggleston: Let me. I literally have it up right now. So let's find out.

455
00:44:30.030 --> 00:44:33.000
Marcus Anderson: Well, we can keep Ted. You keep talking.

456
00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:34.420
Tad Eggleston: While I searched.

457
00:44:34.562 --> 00:44:34.990
Ted: Yeah, I am.

458
00:44:34.990 --> 00:44:36.680
Marcus Anderson: Not sponsored by the DC.

459
00:44:37.080 --> 00:44:37.419
Marcus Anderson: Do you see.

460
00:44:37.420 --> 00:44:41.630
Tad Eggleston: No, but I mean they're also welcome to yeah sponsor

461
00:44:41.630 --> 00:44:44.930
Tad Eggleston: me, or at least send me more free comics.

462
00:44:44.930 --> 00:44:57.339
Ted: But yeah, talking about the miniseries, because I remember. Also again, I read a bunch of the miniseries I remember, like, there's so yeah, there's the wise son, one by Hoche Anderson, there's the there's the deathless one by Maddie Blousetein. There.

463
00:44:57.340 --> 00:45:02.940
Tad Eggleston: It actually looks like they don't have death. Wish

464
00:45:06.950 --> 00:45:15.150
Tad Eggleston: so it might be that they have the long ones, but not the miniseries stuff that does.

465
00:45:15.150 --> 00:45:15.920
Ted: Fuck, because that.

466
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:16.380
Marcus Anderson: Lost!

467
00:45:16.380 --> 00:45:17.090
Ted: I mean.

468
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.459
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, cobalt's not there.

469
00:45:20.850 --> 00:45:24.529
Ted: Cobalt. Now that's another one. That's that one I really. I remember liking a lot.

470
00:45:24.530 --> 00:45:25.419
Marcus Anderson: Yeah, I think I did.

471
00:45:25.420 --> 00:45:27.529
Ted: Years ago was that was.

472
00:45:27.530 --> 00:45:30.640
Tad Eggleston: That's another one. A zombie is there, though?

473
00:45:30.940 --> 00:45:37.365
Ted: Okay. Well, Zombie was sort of I mean Zombie was considered an ongoing. I don't know if I don't remember if

474
00:45:37.950 --> 00:45:40.880
Tad Eggleston: So only the 1st 6 issues their 1st

475
00:45:41.040 --> 00:45:43.160
Tad Eggleston: 5 or 6 issues of zombie.

476
00:45:44.140 --> 00:45:44.900
Ted: That's weird.

477
00:45:45.622 --> 00:45:47.080
Ted: Yeah, I was about to add.

478
00:45:47.080 --> 00:45:48.010
Tad Eggleston: 6 issues.

479
00:45:48.010 --> 00:45:49.930
Ted: I don't remember if Cobalt.

480
00:45:49.930 --> 00:45:54.999
Tad Eggleston: I mean stuff gets added. So I mean, who knows if it'll stay that way forever?

481
00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:01.820
Ted: And cobalt, wasn't. It was longer than a minute. That was like 18 issues or something, wasn't it? That went a while? I thought.

482
00:46:02.176 --> 00:46:06.450
Tad Eggleston: I mean, since I happen to have that up right now, too.

483
00:46:06.450 --> 00:46:07.070
Tad Eggleston: Let me.

484
00:46:08.680 --> 00:46:13.339
Tad Eggleston: Let me let me find out for you.

485
00:46:17.330 --> 00:46:21.010
Tad Eggleston: Where is da da da.

486
00:46:24.040 --> 00:46:26.690
Ted: Yeah, I mean the the.

487
00:46:26.690 --> 00:46:28.270
Tad Eggleston: 16 issues.

488
00:46:28.270 --> 00:46:29.440
Ted: 16. Okay, so, not.

489
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:30.930
Tad Eggleston: 16 issues of cobalt.

490
00:46:30.930 --> 00:46:33.810
Ted: It's it's it's longer than your Standard Mini series. That was the interesting thing.

491
00:46:33.810 --> 00:46:34.380
Tad Eggleston: Right.

492
00:46:34.380 --> 00:46:38.699
Ted: Yeah, I mean, excuse me, I don't know to what degree those are. Sort of

493
00:46:38.810 --> 00:47:03.129
Ted: plot importance to the milestone stuff in giant air quotes, because like plot is not the I mean plot is important, obviously. But part plot is also just like there's so much that there's so much more that makes this milestone stuff great. I don't know to what degree that like those are plot important but definitely as part of the milestone Vibe. They're fantastic. Didn't Maddie Blostein? Did she also do a there's like a hardware

494
00:47:04.180 --> 00:47:08.599
Ted: like separate Mini series, or something? There was some other. It was just a very weird.

495
00:47:08.600 --> 00:47:11.139
Marcus Anderson: Sure I mean there could have been if it was. I didn't read it yet.

496
00:47:11.140 --> 00:47:18.990
Ted: I think there was just a really sort of I say this as a positive, but like a very weird arc of hardware that comes later. That was very like

497
00:47:19.140 --> 00:47:22.819
Ted: the Arcanus stuff is sort of a warm up for that, from what I remember of it.

498
00:47:22.900 --> 00:47:27.119
Ted: If I'm thinking about the right thing, I might be confused. Don't take me at my word.

499
00:47:27.120 --> 00:47:33.500
Tad Eggleston: Well, it looks like Maddie Bloustein. Did

500
00:47:37.600 --> 00:47:46.820
Tad Eggleston: icon hardware 20 and 21 death wish also hardware. 2324.

501
00:47:47.600 --> 00:47:49.119
Ted: Yeah, there's a bunch of hardware that.

502
00:47:49.120 --> 00:47:49.810
Tad Eggleston: 7.

503
00:47:49.810 --> 00:47:51.769
Ted: Okay, yes, that might be what I'm thinking of, because.

504
00:47:51.770 --> 00:47:52.510
Tad Eggleston: 3.

505
00:47:52.950 --> 00:47:56.140
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, okay? And there's a hardware is like

506
00:47:56.570 --> 00:48:00.209
Tad Eggleston: interspersed with the the death wish stuff coming out.

507
00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:19.639
Ted: Okay, that's yes. That's what I'm thinking of then, because the the hardware stuff had some really interesting wild stuff in it for a while that I I will say it does feel like it kind of took from what I remember this was years ago. From what I remember it did feel like it. It went further afield from what had been the main hardware focus of you know him in the back.

508
00:48:19.640 --> 00:48:21.210
Tad Eggleston: Back and forth, elbatic.

509
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:31.849
Ted: Oh, yeah, that's why she did some static, too. But anyway, that's that's not a criticism. It is. It is different. But I remember liking it a hell of a lot. There's some really wild stuff in those issues. If I'm thinking of the right stuff

510
00:48:31.970 --> 00:48:34.680
Ted: I might be, I might be sprouting nonsense. Don't trust me.

511
00:48:35.583 --> 00:48:36.266
Ted: Anyway.

512
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:47.860
Ted: but yeah, this is a fun chunk of issues. I am looking forward to whatever we hit next, and it sounds like, I mean, this is the end of compendium 3. And before we went.

513
00:48:47.860 --> 00:48:50.220
Tad Eggleston: 2 0, and a compendium. 2.

514
00:48:50.220 --> 00:48:51.000
Marcus Anderson: To wait.

515
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:52.309
Ted: This was comedian 2.

516
00:48:52.820 --> 00:48:54.720
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. We've only gone through 2.

517
00:48:54.720 --> 00:48:56.269
Ted: God! Well, I know.

518
00:48:56.270 --> 00:49:00.349
Marcus Anderson: Only that's like that's like 2,500 pages of.

519
00:49:00.350 --> 00:49:04.019
Ted: Yeah, that wasn't a complaint that was like, Oh, my God! There's so much in it, you know.

520
00:49:04.020 --> 00:49:05.190
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.

521
00:49:06.570 --> 00:49:11.390
Ted: But yeah, that's what. What are we? What we talked about? What are we doing next?

522
00:49:11.390 --> 00:49:17.100
Tad Eggleston: We're going to do some some shadow shadows of the Dakota static.

523
00:49:17.580 --> 00:49:21.579
Ted: Recent stuff, the new, the new milestone.

524
00:49:21.580 --> 00:49:22.020
Tad Eggleston: Right.

525
00:49:22.020 --> 00:49:23.120
Ted: Yes.

526
00:49:23.120 --> 00:49:31.650
Tad Eggleston: Milestone of which in the new milestone, I don't know, Marcus, I've read it. Yeah.

527
00:49:31.650 --> 00:49:36.399
Tad Eggleston: Did you know I meant, did you read? Did either of you read the the 1st shadow Cabinet.

528
00:49:36.850 --> 00:49:37.380
Marcus Anderson: I have.

529
00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:37.800
Tad Eggleston: The children.

530
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:40.380
Marcus Anderson: Right on top of my pile. I haven't. I haven't read it yet.

531
00:49:40.380 --> 00:49:41.499
Ted: I have not I.

532
00:49:41.500 --> 00:49:43.670
Marcus Anderson: I 100% believe that? Yeah.

533
00:49:43.890 --> 00:49:45.759
Ted: Who's doing the new Shadow Cabinet.

534
00:49:47.030 --> 00:49:50.330
Marcus Anderson: Village is riding it. Okay, forget who's the artist?

535
00:49:51.010 --> 00:49:53.449
Tad Eggleston: Let me go find out

536
00:49:59.168 --> 00:50:01.400
Tad Eggleston: blah blah blah blah.

537
00:50:01.891 --> 00:50:06.269
Ted: Yeah, it's I mean all the new icons or icon, all the new hardware hardware.

538
00:50:06.270 --> 00:50:06.790
Marcus Anderson: Russell.

539
00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:10.700
Ted: Milestone. There's 2 syllables, and I'll get there eventually.

540
00:50:10.700 --> 00:50:11.960
Marcus Anderson: What you meant. We know what you meant.

541
00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:16.759
Ted: All the new milestone stuff has been good, and I've been looking forward to it. It's just been, it's there's it's so much.

542
00:50:18.490 --> 00:50:21.740
Tad Eggleston: Errol Banks and Adagan Ilhan.

543
00:50:21.740 --> 00:50:23.030
Ted: Okay. Alright. Cool.

544
00:50:23.030 --> 00:50:23.490
Tad Eggleston: Shit.

545
00:50:23.490 --> 00:50:26.560
Marcus Anderson: The art that I've seen so far. I like

546
00:50:27.132 --> 00:50:32.917
Marcus Anderson: I will say I will say and I'm not trying to get any gigs from them, so I'm not too worried about it. But

547
00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:38.720
Marcus Anderson: I don't. 100% trust. Always trust DC. And Warner Brothers to do the right thing by milestone, like, you know.

548
00:50:38.720 --> 00:50:39.270
Ted: Yeah.

549
00:50:39.930 --> 00:50:40.860
Marcus Anderson: So far they have.

550
00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:44.819
Marcus Anderson: I'm glad to see. I'm glad I know, but sometimes we talk to.

551
00:50:45.120 --> 00:50:46.130
Tad Eggleston: No, I meant I meant.

552
00:50:46.130 --> 00:50:49.729
Marcus Anderson: I'm not putting anybody's business in the street, but sometimes you talk to creators and.

553
00:50:49.730 --> 00:50:50.860
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, okay.

554
00:50:51.650 --> 00:50:53.150
Marcus Anderson: But so far.

555
00:50:53.150 --> 00:50:59.589
Tad Eggleston: Publication stuff from has been solid is what I meant. Yeah.

556
00:50:59.590 --> 00:51:01.310
Marcus Anderson: Yeah, you know, I've heard.

557
00:51:01.310 --> 00:51:06.249
Tad Eggleston: Mixed reviews on how well the experience has gone for a lot of people.

558
00:51:06.250 --> 00:51:14.139
Marcus Anderson: Well, and what I'm speaking about specifically, if I'm keeping it real again, I'm not speaking about anyway, specific experience. But when I what I am speaking about about my

559
00:51:14.510 --> 00:51:21.899
Marcus Anderson: trust with them is is really kind of lines up with the very, the very inspiration

560
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:50.250
Marcus Anderson: that Wayne Mcduffie had to both like create hardware, and his backstory of hitting that glass ceiling and the frustrations with a larger, you know, largely white corporate environment and and the ways that it just doesn't see you and kind of operates off the myth of equality and ignores equity, you know. And and so there's that because I do think that as much as

561
00:51:50.710 --> 00:52:01.250
Marcus Anderson: cause I'm just like I don't know, like they're doing like season one season, 2. And there's long breaks in between. And I do understand functionally where, when you do seasons, it does allow creators

562
00:52:01.270 --> 00:52:10.470
Marcus Anderson: breathing room. So you can keep the same team and and they can have time to create, come back, etc, etc. It just feels like there's resources that

563
00:52:10.670 --> 00:52:19.639
Marcus Anderson: that they will pour into the 19th batman book. You know, in any given month that like.

564
00:52:19.640 --> 00:52:22.350
Tad Eggleston: Well, they're trying to that magic 20.

565
00:52:23.040 --> 00:52:26.730
Marcus Anderson: Right, right. And look, look! I've read some good batman books in the past.

566
00:52:26.730 --> 00:52:27.899
Tad Eggleston: I know like, you know.

567
00:52:27.900 --> 00:52:35.275
Marcus Anderson: And and I've been like there are entirely too many like, but I'm like, but, damn it, some of them are good, you know, but

568
00:52:35.570 --> 00:52:38.110
Tad Eggleston: A lot of them are good. I mean.

569
00:52:38.780 --> 00:52:42.969
Tad Eggleston: it's the real catch 22 that like

570
00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:48.569
Tad Eggleston: on one side, you know that there's so many of them just because.

571
00:52:48.570 --> 00:52:49.720
Marcus Anderson: He's the biggest character.

572
00:52:50.110 --> 00:53:10.870
Tad Eggleston: Well, biggest sales character, and that tons of them tons of those stories. If the writers were paid to do it, they could. They could do the same story, and possibly better, with characters that weren't Batman. But at the same time they have enough affinity for Batman, and they're good enough at what they do, that they're really fucking. Good batman. No, look.

573
00:53:10.870 --> 00:53:16.679
Marcus Anderson: Batman. The reason I will always go see now. But see, I'm doing it now. I was trying to talk about milestone, but now I'm talking about.

574
00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:19.810
Marcus Anderson: Briefly, briefly. What I will say is.

575
00:53:19.810 --> 00:53:21.719
Tad Eggleston: All roads lead back to Batman, Batman.

576
00:53:21.720 --> 00:53:33.879
Marcus Anderson: In the mythology of Gotham City. It's just a great template for people to play with at the end of the day, like, you know I just we watched penguin recently, which I love, and then

577
00:53:34.274 --> 00:53:55.690
Marcus Anderson: I went back and watched the batman, which you know I loved also, and it's just. It's just really fascinating. How many different ways can play with these things that said, I want the same thing for Dakota, because Batman is damn near 100 years old, I mean will be in the in the 2,030 s. And late 2,030 s.

578
00:53:55.910 --> 00:53:59.650
Marcus Anderson: And I want I want people a hundred years from now to be like

579
00:53:59.860 --> 00:54:06.329
Marcus Anderson: I wanna I want to tell my Dakota story. You know what I mean, and I don't necessarily know that

580
00:54:07.390 --> 00:54:10.443
Marcus Anderson: DC. Warner Brothers knows what it has

581
00:54:11.150 --> 00:54:15.929
Marcus Anderson: and is willing to invest in it, because at the end of the day, in all seriousness, like if

582
00:54:16.240 --> 00:54:20.249
Marcus Anderson: and this is a larger problem with comics, even aside from, you know.

583
00:54:20.330 --> 00:54:24.389
Marcus Anderson: comps are specifically, you know, black or about people of color. But like.

584
00:54:24.910 --> 00:54:40.960
Marcus Anderson: there is a tendency to like, really chase the thing that's made you money, which I'm just describing capitalism at this point. But you know there, there's a way in which, like, you know, you've seen some critically acclaimed books that the people who actually read it

585
00:54:41.040 --> 00:54:58.349
Marcus Anderson: adore and love, and those books just like go away because they didn't hit this magic, you know. 10,000 a month sales, or whatever. And you know, there in in this digital age there's a lot of ways that you could. I'm sure I've I've done this speech on the show before, so I won't. I won't! I won't do the whole.

586
00:54:58.350 --> 00:54:59.170
Tad Eggleston: Actually.

587
00:54:59.170 --> 00:55:00.220
Ted: It's always welcome.

588
00:55:00.220 --> 00:55:06.820
Tad Eggleston: I'm going to give a couple of plugs right now, because I haven't listened to the interview yet.

589
00:55:07.536 --> 00:55:12.290
Tad Eggleston: But Heidi Macdonald was just on off panel, and she followed up

590
00:55:12.630 --> 00:55:17.959
Tad Eggleston: her interview with with a long column at the beat.

591
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:28.730
Tad Eggleston: About all of the publishing world except comics is a long game.

592
00:55:29.160 --> 00:55:30.759
Tad Eggleston: It's not about.

593
00:55:31.160 --> 00:55:32.880
Marcus Anderson: Right. Make it right.

594
00:55:32.880 --> 00:55:43.019
Tad Eggleston: Now it's about having a solid catalog. It's about what might be popular this year might not be next year, but could be 20 years from now.

595
00:55:43.020 --> 00:55:43.510
Marcus Anderson: Right.

596
00:55:45.140 --> 00:55:52.759
Tad Eggleston: It's not about like, make this to sell it to be a movie. Now it's about make this keep it in print.

597
00:55:53.010 --> 00:56:06.690
Tad Eggleston: see if it catches fire later. You know you've got your perennial. I mean, you've got your perennial stable of stuff that's just solid, you know, in the publishing world, you know. You're never going to not sell Sherlock Holmes.

598
00:56:06.830 --> 00:56:17.579
Tad Eggleston: I mean, even though it's public domain. You know, you're never going to not be able to sell Sherlock Holmes. You're never going to not be able to sell a Christmas carol or catcher in the rye

599
00:56:19.470 --> 00:56:28.689
Tad Eggleston: And and comics is batman, you know. Batman is going to be DC's anchor book, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't take longer chances on a lot of things.

600
00:56:28.690 --> 00:56:29.300
Marcus Anderson: Right, if.

601
00:56:29.300 --> 00:56:35.920
Tad Eggleston: They wanted to, and have a really good chance of making their money back, even just through publishing.

602
00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:36.640
Marcus Anderson: Right.

603
00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:41.809
Tad Eggleston: If you look at it over a decade rather than a month.

604
00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:42.790
Ted: And that's.

605
00:56:42.790 --> 00:56:44.330
Marcus Anderson: I'll go ahead. Sorry to.

606
00:56:44.330 --> 00:56:46.869
Ted: No, I didn't, ever you. You've been waiting on it, man. Sorry.

607
00:56:47.250 --> 00:56:48.670
Ted: That's okay. But.

608
00:56:48.670 --> 00:56:51.280
Marcus Anderson: Well, yeah, you know, you really, you go.

609
00:56:51.280 --> 00:57:01.119
Ted: I mean, that's a consequence of like the direct market system really like. That's that that element of you know, the returns and the way that returns are done, and how they have to do pre orders and everything.

610
00:57:01.120 --> 00:57:02.090
Marcus Anderson: Reimagine.

611
00:57:02.090 --> 00:57:10.130
Ted: Yes, yes, a hundred percent. I mean, that's the that's the thing where it's like it. Every publishing model has its own

612
00:57:10.390 --> 00:57:13.140
Ted: flaws and downsides and everything. I mean, it's it's

613
00:57:13.190 --> 00:57:19.537
Ted: a friend of mine recently mentioned. I'm sure I'm almost positive. We talked about this on the podcast before. But the

614
00:57:20.270 --> 00:57:25.140
Ted: the manga series, Bakuman, which is about 2 shonen manga guys creating shounen manga.

615
00:57:25.140 --> 00:57:25.570
Marcus Anderson: And.

616
00:57:25.570 --> 00:57:51.290
Ted: Written by the 2 guys who did death note. So like, if anyone knows shoun and manga, those do but and it's so much of it is about how exactly those magazines work, how much work it is to get in there, like what you have to do to game the system, and keep yourself afloat and like, for all that, the manga industry has over American comics, which it does. There are also some places in which it's way worse, or at least bad, in different ways, like, there's a reason that you know Toriyama.

617
00:57:51.290 --> 00:57:58.960
Ted: the single greatest dude of all time, possibly in Manga. Well, him, which is a Tezuka, but like dies at such a young age.

618
00:57:59.060 --> 00:58:02.100
Ted: partly because he worked himself to death pretty much like.

619
00:58:02.100 --> 00:58:03.530
Marcus Anderson: Which is tragic. Yeah.

620
00:58:03.530 --> 00:58:14.280
Ted: It's oh, it's awful! And I mean again, it's not that. That's something unique to Manga, because again, there are so many comics creators who they didn't have any savings. There's guys in, you know, retirement homes with nothing there.

621
00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:19.400
Ted: There's issues everywhere. I mean, it's and it's all really. It's all capitalism, but it's 0.

622
00:58:19.400 --> 00:58:44.929
Ted: But the but the thing of it is that that comics has that it has that like it has the pressure of oh, we got to have a thing to tie into this to this movie. We got to have a thing out. Now that responds to this, we got to have this. We have that, and there's no long tail, because up until recently, like they just didn't keep books in print. And they didn't print for long term markets like that. And that is gradually changing.

623
00:58:45.190 --> 00:58:54.639
Ted: but very gradually, and until then the actual publishing market is just going to keep eating their lunch. So like, that's yeah, that's a whole other issue. That's several other podcasts. But like.

624
00:58:54.640 --> 00:58:59.310
Marcus Anderson: Yeah. Well, and it's why, like I I just, I'm I'm very

625
00:58:59.680 --> 00:59:04.830
Marcus Anderson: happy with this lane of graphic novels that I've been fortunate enough to go.

626
00:59:04.830 --> 00:59:05.670
Marcus Anderson: You're in a very good.

627
00:59:05.670 --> 00:59:13.030
Marcus Anderson: I work in well, and but like I don't have any desire to do the do. The monthly hustle like, Oh, God!

628
00:59:13.030 --> 00:59:24.329
Ted: Someone on Blue Sky just posted something about like, you know, the fact that yeah, all these indie creators who do these incredible books then decide to go over to. You know whatever random superhero is hot right now.

629
00:59:24.330 --> 00:59:46.650
Ted: and not condemning them exactly, but because, like everybody's got to eat. But also, you know, you can do such good stuff. And this reminded me that years ago on, I guess, Twitter, I saw a thread that always stuck with me, and I wish to God I'd saved it, or at least remember who wrote it. But someone was talking. They just sort of did this alternate history thing where they were talking about this other world in which every musician

630
00:59:46.951 --> 00:59:58.920
Ted: what thought of all their bands they've ever been in all the songs they've ever written. All the people they've ever played with as just their extensive audition to start playing in either a beatles or a rolling stone cover band.

631
00:59:59.050 --> 01:00:03.019
Ted: And and you know that's the comics industry for you is. And if we're

632
01:00:03.020 --> 01:00:09.279
Ted: being really honest, it's not even like the Beatles and the rolling stones. It's like, you know, Hawk Wind and Nickelback, like.

633
01:00:09.290 --> 01:00:12.935
Ted: okay, that's harsh. But no, I feel you.

634
01:00:13.250 --> 01:00:24.390
Ted: But it is a thing where it's like, though no other industry works like this, where? Well, they they have their own pressures. Obviously, you know, God knows the music industry isn't that good? But, like.

635
01:00:24.940 --> 01:00:28.370
Ted: But comics has that unique pull where, like

636
01:00:28.500 --> 01:00:39.550
Ted: the only way to make a success for a lot of people is to not do the thing you love, but to do the thing that God, that when I put it in those terms it's like, Oh, God! That is just capitalism, isn't it?

637
01:00:40.450 --> 01:00:43.200
Marcus Anderson: It's it's it's yeah tough.

638
01:00:43.450 --> 01:00:47.999
Marcus Anderson: Well, and where I was going with this, too, is just so.

639
01:00:48.940 --> 01:00:54.520
Marcus Anderson: I don't know if you guys are familiar with this. But in in 2020, you know, after the

640
01:00:54.650 --> 01:01:01.150
Marcus Anderson: murder of George Floyd, right? And there were, you know, there were mass protests, uprisings which

641
01:01:01.210 --> 01:01:04.801
Marcus Anderson: felt different than the myriad of

642
01:01:05.910 --> 01:01:16.630
Marcus Anderson: You know, killings of unarmed black men that I've seen throughout my lifetime, where it felt like we black people were protesting, if anything, but not everybody else. And this time it was like pandemic. The world

643
01:01:17.590 --> 01:01:18.240
Marcus Anderson: and dude

644
01:01:18.240 --> 01:01:25.610
Marcus Anderson: have as much to do, etc, etc. So more people were paying attention, and they realize, like, Hey, maybe black lives do matter.

645
01:01:25.620 --> 01:01:26.660
Ted: This year.

646
01:01:26.660 --> 01:01:35.450
Marcus Anderson: Like, you know, this year those. And so there was a lot of promises about like, Oh, man, you know, we got this sick.

647
01:01:35.600 --> 01:01:50.549
Marcus Anderson: Our graphic design team threw up this sick banner. You know that we're gonna put up in our on our website and all that and everything. And there was a lot of organizations. I've seen this on multiple levels, because, you know, obviously, I work in comics. But I also

648
01:01:50.590 --> 01:01:57.539
Marcus Anderson: just a very involved in in the art world on different different capacities. Right? And so, even just locally, there's different.

649
01:01:58.340 --> 01:02:08.090
Marcus Anderson: you know, arts, museums, and organizations that made these big, grand pledges to like respect, black and bipoc, voices, and all of that, and

650
01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:17.029
Marcus Anderson: know that was 2020 and 2021, and then come 2022, all that was drying up. I personally know people

651
01:02:18.560 --> 01:02:32.979
Marcus Anderson: got a new got new positions that were created specifically like to to meet the needs of these neglected populations, marginalized populations, and all of a sudden it's like their their position.

652
01:02:33.050 --> 01:02:41.350
Marcus Anderson: It doesn't exist this year, or it's getting cut, you know. And so there's a lot of broken promises with that, and what it comes down to. The reason I bring that up is.

653
01:02:42.030 --> 01:03:00.975
Marcus Anderson: well, that's corporate. America is like we. And again, this is still capitalism, but it's like they talk a big game, but it is also related to race, like, you know, they talk a big game when it comes to marginalized groups of people. And you know, making these promises and seeing the importance and the value, especially if it's the month of a given group, you know.

654
01:03:01.320 --> 01:03:11.880
Marcus Anderson: but then then it it dries up, and and there's not a real investment in it. And then when so when I'm talking what I'm talking about is is that idea of equity versus equality? Because it's like, if you're saying.

655
01:03:12.510 --> 01:03:36.780
Marcus Anderson: the lie of equality is what has allowed these divides to exist for so long, because it's kind of like. No, it's equal. Martin Martin March. Rose is set, and we got a Voting Rights act. So you guys are all good. Shut up. That was literally like the narrative you know, that I grew up with in the, you know, growing up after the Civil rights movement not too long after civil rights movement, but after the civil rights movement.

656
01:03:38.230 --> 01:03:43.259
Marcus Anderson: and equity, it recognizes

657
01:03:43.410 --> 01:03:49.650
Marcus Anderson: what the hell is broken in the country, in a system, and and what actually.

658
01:03:49.920 --> 01:03:56.690
Marcus Anderson: you know needs to be addressed in order to move things forward. So it's like, you know, the comics industry acting like.

659
01:03:56.780 --> 01:04:01.160
Marcus Anderson: how many, how many races do you see? Saying like

660
01:04:01.470 --> 01:04:06.539
Marcus Anderson: just crying about like, Oh, why is this black person getting to write this? Or why is this woman

661
01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:10.460
Marcus Anderson: period, whatever her, her ethnicity is getting to write this book.

662
01:04:11.050 --> 01:04:24.869
Marcus Anderson: etc. And questioning, questioning their right to be there, not on the merits of their work, but just on their identity. You know what I mean and like. So my point is like, I'll stop a sermon in a minute. But my point is.

663
01:04:24.890 --> 01:04:28.389
Marcus Anderson: I will trust DC. And Warner Brothers

664
01:04:29.020 --> 01:04:32.040
Marcus Anderson: with Milestone when I really see them

665
01:04:32.750 --> 01:04:38.139
Marcus Anderson: recognizing like, no, this is important, and we need to.

666
01:04:38.400 --> 01:04:53.659
Marcus Anderson: We need to have its back, and also to like to promote it and make sure that we are pushing it, you know, because at the end of the day it's like, yeah, everything. All these observations we all made about the publishing industry are so true and so accurate. But at the end of the day

667
01:04:54.520 --> 01:04:56.850
Marcus Anderson: there is audience for this like, like, Oh, yeah.

668
01:04:56.850 --> 01:05:00.935
Marcus Anderson: is is the kind of you know. Kids come up to me at

669
01:05:01.820 --> 01:05:14.629
Marcus Anderson: at cons and everything. And they're looking through my prints. They're like you have a static like, you know, and like, because they're like we grew up on static and static, made it through to the mainstream, and you know some people know iconic rocket from like young justice.

670
01:05:14.980 --> 01:05:15.390
Ted: Oh, yeah.

671
01:05:15.390 --> 01:05:21.290
Marcus Anderson: It's like these. These characters should also be household names. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. When I say I don't always trust.

672
01:05:21.290 --> 01:05:21.800
Ted: Yeah.

673
01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:23.040
Marcus Anderson: DC's investment.

674
01:05:23.040 --> 01:05:23.760
Ted: Oh, understand!

675
01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:24.559
Tad Eggleston: I mean.

676
01:05:24.560 --> 01:05:38.809
Ted: I also just wanted to chime in. I have. I have the 1st volume of like static season, one in my middle school library, where I work. I see kids checking that out regularly, because, like, yeah, it's superhero stuff. It's fun. It's colorful. It's got a black kid on the cover. I work in a majority black school that matters. So, yeah.

677
01:05:38.810 --> 01:05:44.300
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I I'm in a

678
01:05:44.630 --> 01:05:52.369
Tad Eggleston: I'm helping a student in an English class right now where they're reading dear Martin, and and they they

679
01:05:53.330 --> 01:05:56.760
Tad Eggleston: a number of the books that they've read. This

680
01:05:57.400 --> 01:06:03.980
Tad Eggleston: I think that they read the fresh Ink Anthology before that which is a lot of diverse forces, short stories

681
01:06:04.010 --> 01:06:07.710
Tad Eggleston: she knew, and like UN like.

682
01:06:08.430 --> 01:06:09.150
Marcus Anderson: Yeah.

683
01:06:09.150 --> 01:06:11.000
Tad Eggleston: Lewin, lewin, yeah.

684
01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:11.780
Marcus Anderson: Yang! Yang!

685
01:06:12.020 --> 01:06:13.140
Tad Eggleston: Not you so sorry, Jim?

686
01:06:13.140 --> 01:06:15.400
Marcus Anderson: We're going to gang. Yeah.

687
01:06:16.400 --> 01:06:18.120
Tad Eggleston: La, la,

688
01:06:20.490 --> 01:06:25.130
Tad Eggleston: And there was a kid that's like.

689
01:06:25.140 --> 01:06:33.529
Tad Eggleston: so second semester, are we? Gonna we still all all everything we're reading about race.

690
01:06:33.720 --> 01:06:34.600
Tad Eggleston: And

691
01:06:36.600 --> 01:06:46.419
Tad Eggleston: I actually thought overall, the teacher handled it relatively well, particularly for for this environment where he's like, well, I mean, that's really up to you, isn't it?

692
01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:58.550
Tad Eggleston: None of these books have to be about race. The stuff going on is is stuff that you can relate to on other levels. You don't have to focus on the racial component if you choose not to

693
01:06:59.930 --> 01:07:06.620
Tad Eggleston: But what went through my head. And it's just it just wasn't in a position where it was appropriate for me to say it was.

694
01:07:08.670 --> 01:07:12.819
Tad Eggleston: If all of these are about race, tell me what book wouldn't be about race.

695
01:07:12.820 --> 01:07:17.769
Marcus Anderson: Yeah, you shouldn't. No, actually, no. Yes. Yeah. Like all these other books.

696
01:07:18.550 --> 01:07:22.090
Tad Eggleston: So you're telling you're telling me that that

697
01:07:22.530 --> 01:07:24.960
Tad Eggleston: catch on the rye isn't about race.

698
01:07:25.290 --> 01:07:27.720
Tad Eggleston: Try reading it as a poor black kid.

699
01:07:28.310 --> 01:07:29.910
Ted: Yeah, that's yeah.

700
01:07:29.910 --> 01:07:32.070
Tad Eggleston: I bet you it's a lot about race. Then.

701
01:07:32.090 --> 01:07:33.960
Ted: Every book is in conversation with its

702
01:07:33.960 --> 01:07:37.310
Ted: does this? What does this crazy, rich white boy get away with.

703
01:07:37.595 --> 01:07:37.880
Tad Eggleston: No.

704
01:07:37.880 --> 01:07:39.369
Tad Eggleston: Could it do that? Yeah.

705
01:07:39.370 --> 01:07:55.801
Marcus Anderson: And it is, and as much as like the myth of the default right? Which is what you're speaking about that. Well, if if I don't write that the characters black in my novel, or if I don't draw a black character, it's obviously a bunch of white characters like the thing about that is is that

706
01:07:56.400 --> 01:08:06.750
Marcus Anderson: you know, it is a choice as because the default thing is a lie, right where people like. Oh, I'm just writing. You know what I know, and writing people like I grew up with. But you are making a choice to make a book

707
01:08:07.360 --> 01:08:18.030
Marcus Anderson: with wall-to-wall white characters, or where your only non-white characters are somehow trivialized, or, you know, less important. So no, that absolutely because

708
01:08:18.790 --> 01:08:28.139
Marcus Anderson: the publish the history of the publishing industry has been a lot of choices, and you know well, it's the idea of like when people complain that politics, that address

709
01:08:28.340 --> 01:08:43.120
Marcus Anderson: race gender, you know, sexuality, etc. Are identity politics. But then you look at the other side of the aisle, and somehow that's not identity politics, you know we're not. We're not even going to get into.

710
01:08:43.120 --> 01:08:45.740
Tad Eggleston: An agenda isn't isn't about your identity.

711
01:08:45.740 --> 01:08:47.950
Marcus Anderson: It's a hundred. Yeah, it's.

712
01:08:48.450 --> 01:08:51.350
Tad Eggleston: That's not identity. That's just truth.

713
01:08:52.057 --> 01:08:53.219
Marcus Anderson: Absolutely. Yeah, exactly.

714
01:08:53.229 --> 01:08:54.669
Ted: Yeah. God, that's a whole other.

715
01:08:54.670 --> 01:08:59.140
Tad Eggleston: Okay, I'm not proud of myself anymore. I held in the other snarky comments.

716
01:08:59.470 --> 01:09:00.749
Marcus Anderson: No, no, I was.

717
01:09:01.410 --> 01:09:03.809
Ted: At this point, though it is also getting late. I do gotta.

718
01:09:03.810 --> 01:09:04.739
Tad Eggleston: It is, it is, it is.

719
01:09:04.740 --> 01:09:06.179
Ted: Whenever we start getting into politics.

720
01:09:06.189 --> 01:09:06.354
Tad Eggleston: But

721
01:09:06.890 --> 01:09:07.630
Marcus Anderson: Right, right.

722
01:09:08.050 --> 01:09:10.672
Tad Eggleston: Time time to wrap it up.

723
01:09:11.149 --> 01:09:14.519
Tad Eggleston: Another great great episode, and

724
01:09:14.970 --> 01:09:22.529
Tad Eggleston: for for the brothers Anderson no relation. This has been the 22 panels. Milestone Book Club, where we wrapped up

725
01:09:23.390 --> 01:09:25.929
Tad Eggleston: milestone Compendium 2.

726
01:09:25.930 --> 01:09:26.600
Ted: Woo.

727
01:09:26.600 --> 01:09:27.380
Marcus Anderson: Yes.

728
01:09:28.380 --> 01:09:38.929
Tad Eggleston: Like 2 years into our milestone book club. I think somebody looked it up recently. Yeah, we've been doing this for a while. It's kind of cool. It's wild man.

729
01:09:38.950 --> 01:09:47.430
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. So for the brothers, Anderson not related, this has been 22 panels, and we will see you after the next page.