Bonus Episode: With Great Power #205...22 Panels with Alexandra Bowman

Tad is joined by Locher Memorial Fellowship Award winning Editorial Cartoonist Alexandra Bowman!

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Transcript

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Alexandra Bowman: I

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Alexandra Bowman: I regret the degree to which I have a sensitive sleep schedule. I have to get between midnight and 1 15, or else. If I go to bed at 1 16 I am dead the next day. Unfortunately.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, well, see, that's still less sensitive than me half the time I'm in bed right now.

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Alexandra Bowman: Oh, Jeez.

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Alexandra Bowman: there you go right.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean it is. It is not at all uncommon for me to be in bed right now, and.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: Just joining us. Welcome to the 22 panels. Podcast

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Tad Eggleston: my guest tonight is Alexandra Bowman, the the the perils of Hitting record, while in the middle of conversations people will be fine.

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Tad Eggleston: Now they know all about your sleep schedule.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right

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Alexandra Bowman: already having such a good conversation before we started.

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Tad Eggleston: Exactly exactly. So. You know the other thing, and and and like you, you have been.

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Tad Eggleston: you have been busy enough

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Tad Eggleston: with your move that I don't think you've updated anything to say. The award that I watch watch you get, and I've forgotten it. So what were you given at

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Tad Eggleston: at Cxc this year.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yes, so I'm Hello, everybody. My name is Alexander Bowman, like Tad said. I do political cartoons and a lot of other things. But I met.

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Tad Eggleston: We'll get into some of the other stuff, I'm certain.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, we Tad and I met at a convention related to political cartoons. So I'm very, very honored to have received the inaugural Loker Fellowship from the Association of American editorial cartoonists this year and that came with

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Alexandra Bowman: a special guest ship at Cartoon Crossroads, Columbus, and because it was inaugural, they said, Hey, how can we make this useful for you? Given the changing economy of work for young political cartoonists and young artists and young political people in general.

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Tad Eggleston: How about just young people?

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Alexandra Bowman: The other.

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Tad Eggleston: Or cartoonists.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

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Alexandra Bowman: yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean cartoonists, young or old. Everybody.

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Alexandra Bowman: Exactly, and because, you know, and I really appreciate that from them, because I am essentially I mean, I don't like generalizing, especially when the generalizations put me on a pedestal, but I am one of very few cartoonists working now who are not retired like at retirement age, and have time and the financial resources to just do this full time, or who have been cemented in the industry for many.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay.

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Alexandra Bowman: And figured this out before the economy became what it is now, and you know I don't want to suggest it's that much worse than it used to be, but all evidence.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, I think, Bill, I'll tell you. It's that much work, I mean. Jen Sorenson was talking about how much I mean.

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Tad Eggleston: she's

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Tad Eggleston: been around for quite a while.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

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Alexandra Bowman: yeah, yeah, right.

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Tad Eggleston: Span of your work. By the way, I mentioned that you were.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

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Alexandra Bowman: yeah, I'm just always reluctant to say.

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Tad Eggleston: No, I mean, one of the things we talked about is how happy she is for the Aca, and how she's worried about it because she wouldn't be able to do what she does if

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Tad Eggleston: she and her husband couldn't be covered

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Tad Eggleston: off of the exchanges.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right oh, boy.

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Alexandra Bowman: right right.

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Tad Eggleston: You know I had. Carol lay on. Carol Lay's been at this even longer than Jen Sorenson, and she made certain to plug her Patreon.

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Alexandra Bowman: Supplements.

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Tad Eggleston: Your social security.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? Right? Right? Yeah, no. Yeah. I'm just. I'm.

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Tad Eggleston: She was also in the middle of a move.

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Alexandra Bowman: Really, there you go. Yeah, we'll get to that. But yeah, I'm just always concerned, especially.

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Tad Eggleston: No, no, I get it.

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Alexandra Bowman: Particularly because.

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Tad Eggleston: Because you're a millennial, and there's nothing fox news likes more than to call millennials. You know.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

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Tad Eggleston: Whiny, crybaby, non-working whatever.

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Alexandra Bowman: Sure. Well, it comes from 2 primary motivations for me. It's 1 is, I think, that I lose credibility when I suggest untruths like I have it worse or significantly worse than all others. But you know I want to be very careful to be as accurate about my current situation as possible. Otherwise I feel like people won't respect my opinions anymore. Second.

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Tad Eggleston: I think it is.

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Alexandra Bowman: I mean, I I think I'm kind of unique for for doing that, and I think it gives me an edge on other people.

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Tad Eggleston: Hope, so.

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Alexandra Bowman: To be.

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Tad Eggleston: But I'll stand up for you and say.

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Alexandra Bowman: Thank you. This.

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Tad Eggleston: Is a hard world.

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Tad Eggleston: August.

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Alexandra Bowman: Or.

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Tad Eggleston: Young.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean, I have kids that are

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Tad Eggleston: actually I don't. I mean, you've got your ma. So what are you? 2526.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, I'm 24. So you said, Malay.

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Tad Eggleston: Guy.

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Alexandra Bowman: No, I'm actually Elder Gen. Z. Actually.

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Tad Eggleston: See? Yeah.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: So.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, but but the Fox news people haven't figured out that Gen. Z. Exists yet.

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Tad Eggleston: Everybody, they think everybody under 40 is a millennial.

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Alexandra Bowman: Okay.

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Tad Eggleston: I thought.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, I think they may have just found out who Gen. Z. Is, because of the election results, and Nick Fuentes, etc. Etc. So I'm.

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Tad Eggleston: Don't even.

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Alexandra Bowman: Have found out about this new population to capitalize on.

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Tad Eggleston: I cannot believe

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Tad Eggleston: the things that Nick Fuentes and some of the other people were saying immediately after the election.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, like I have not been. I admit it. And if he hears this, you know.

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Alexandra Bowman: I don't really care what his mocking reaction will be. I have never been brought to tears by hate, speech before.

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Tad Eggleston: I was brought brought to tears. I'm sitting there going. Yeah. Your way of celebrating is to tell women you own them.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: And then and then he wound up, not being the worst of them, because.

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Alexandra Bowman: There's another.

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Tad Eggleston: Guy that when somebody described

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Tad Eggleston: or somebody suggested that women go on a sex strike responded with like, you'll have a choice. It's like.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right right, and to be clear. I've been angry about hate speech before, just I've never been. I've never felt at such a loss, and I think that's partially a result of my you know, I'm a a Quarter Asian, but a white woman, and I think that's part of why. But I've never felt so devastated and mocked and furious like to to crying from.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Alexandra Bowman: Somebody so hateful before. And I you know I did see on Facebook the other day this reposted Tiktok from a friend of his mom, and it's the lady had deleted the Tiktok. But of course, thank goodness, it's getting circulated, and apparently there's a lot about

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Alexandra Bowman: The way that his mom raised him where his sister was the mom's favorite, and he wasn't given help and therapy when he was very young and responsible, and A lot of that has contributed to, apparently to his reasons for hating women so much so.

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Tad Eggleston: There you go!

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Alexandra Bowman: That was what I thought.

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Tad Eggleston: Somebody.

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Alexandra Bowman: My desk.

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Tad Eggleston: Don't want to have empathy for.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, right.

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Tad Eggleston: I have that problem, too, which is why I almost wish you hadn't shared that with me.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: I hated learning how horrible Donald Trump's father was. I

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Tad Eggleston: have a storytell childhood, and just be a monster.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right. Well, here's the thing right. He is responsible now he's 26. He's 2 years older than me. He, regardless of his childhood has the responsibility now to educate himself, so he might not have been a hundred percent responsible when he was 14, and apparently he was starting to be a little punk at 14. He is 300% responsible now, so I don't mean to absolve him of.

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Tad Eggleston: No, I.

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Alexandra Bowman: Gonna have to.

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Tad Eggleston: I didn't say you were

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Tad Eggleston: just said that it caused me to feel I don't feel sympathy for him. I don't feel like he's not responsible, but now I at least have a little bit of empathy.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right how we got.

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Tad Eggleston: There!

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Alexandra Bowman: And I did.

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Tad Eggleston: Want to.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? Right? Right? Yeah. He needs to sit down and.

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Tad Eggleston: And a lot of listeners of this program are going to be surprised to hear me say that, because I literally am like

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Tad Eggleston: the devil's advocate on everything.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: From the the look at it from this point of view, you know I know that that's horrible. But what led them to that.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right. He was on a.

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Tad Eggleston: Very short list, with like Alex Jones and Donald Trump.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: People that I had 0 empathy for.

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Tad Eggleston: and now I have empathy for him, and that's your fault.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, exactly. I honestly, I think more people should just have empathy or look to find

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Alexandra Bowman: empathy for people they hate, because not because it will.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, I I.

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Alexandra Bowman: Suddenly, you know, justify the person's behavior, but I.

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Tad Eggleston: Thank you.

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Alexandra Bowman: I gave a Ted talk on this in college. I think that it's important that we understand where the other person's coming from, as we seek to counter them, because it will help us come up with arguments that actually cut to the chase. And I think not. Doing that, by the way, is one of the reasons Trump won absolutely.

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Tad Eggleston: No! I I.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, I still think I

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Tad Eggleston: I think more.

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Tad Eggleston: and I know that this is going to sound mildly self-serving, but I think the left has tried really hard to be empathetic.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, and but I think.

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Tad Eggleston: In general.

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Tad Eggleston: Americans have have

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Tad Eggleston: trouble with the

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Tad Eggleston: language of empathy.

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Alexandra Bowman: I think I know what you mean. Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Think I think that goes back to

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Tad Eggleston: I mean, really, it comes from, you know. You start

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Tad Eggleston: you. You start

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Tad Eggleston: mostly a Puritan country.

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Tad Eggleston: and then literally.

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Tad Eggleston: the 1st generation of Americans that don't have serious generational trauma

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Tad Eggleston: is my generation.

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Alexandra Bowman: Hmm.

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Tad Eggleston: You know I'm I'm right on the Gen. X.

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Tad Eggleston: Millennial bubble.

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Tad Eggleston: and we're we're the 1st generation

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Tad Eggleston: where most of us didn't go to war.

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Tad Eggleston: And think of how little we've dealt with that.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: I think that part of the problem is the way

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Tad Eggleston: the Democrats on the left empathize as they bend over. I mean, think about

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Tad Eggleston: how much

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Tad Eggleston: the Biden Administration did

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Tad Eggleston: for Red States.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, right,

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Tad Eggleston: You know, like, like your dad or granddad, we still show empathy by doing things rather than by saying things.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right, that's true, and the people who say things the loudest, regardless of how true or are accurate they are or not. Are the people who win a hundred percent.

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Tad Eggleston: And and meanwhile, I mean, we're still in in that point. We're saying empathetic things will get you labeled as weak.

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Tad Eggleston: You're talking about your feelings.

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Tad Eggleston: They act on their feelings.

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Tad Eggleston: but because we talk about our feelings, and really because we talk about other people's feelings.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: Were these little snowflakes.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: I don't think it's as simple as

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Tad Eggleston: the left doesn't show enough empathy, and that's why they lose. I think

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Tad Eggleston: I think this time around, as as too often

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Tad Eggleston: empathy in general lost.

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Alexandra Bowman: Agreed. Well.

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Tad Eggleston: There's a certain

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Tad Eggleston: group of people that just want to don't want empathy. Empathy gets in the way of doing the things that they want to do.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right, and I think either it's a substitute word, or a symptom, or an umbrella over it. I'm not sure. Probably all of them

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Alexandra Bowman: Critical thinking, I think, is a term or concept you could substitute in, because when we talk about empathy, at least in the context that immediately sticks out to me. We're talking about. How does this policy affect those who are less fortunate who might not.

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Tad Eggleston: Even just those who aren't me.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right, or those who are already screwed over by existing power. Sociocultural dynamics. How is it affecting them? And.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean, I'll take. I'll take empathy. Further than that. I try to put myself in the shoes of the people who are doing better than me, too, and try to figure out what their perspective is. I mean, I'm a huge believer in the idea that there's almost nobody who's truly evil.

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Tad Eggleston: I think everybody is the hero of their own movie. I think everybody is doing what they think is best. Now, their perspective on what

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Tad Eggleston: what's best means

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Tad Eggleston: can be dramatically different.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right. And, prior, it's hard not to tell people it from my, you know very privileged position where I just moved to New York, and I'm I'm very. I was already in DC. And I already had an English bachelor's English and art bachelors.

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Tad Eggleston: Town.

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Alexandra Bowman: I was like I was already a cultural coastal.

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Tad Eggleston: And not the way Chad Billyu did.

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Tad Eggleston: Chad, did you get to meet Chad at the at Cxc.

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Alexandra Bowman: I'm not. I've got to admit I met so many people that a lot of name over my head.

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Tad Eggleston: Chat.

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Tad Eggleston: but

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Tad Eggleston: has emigrated to Amsterdam. So so his graphic novel is Chad and Chad Chad from Amsterdam. But he's currently got a comic series called it called The Reop.

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Tad Eggleston: and it's about his time he he got into Georgetown through the back door. He was. He was

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Tad Eggleston: one of their AV guys.

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Tad Eggleston: And if you

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Tad Eggleston: are a full time employee, you get to go to school there for free.

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Tad Eggleston: So so so he didn't get in because he applied, or whatnot he got in because he applied for

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Tad Eggleston: an AV job.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right, but.

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Tad Eggleston: But he also sold weed through.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: And that's what the new comic is about.

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Alexandra Bowman: That feels very goodwill hunting, at least from what I remember.

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Alexandra Bowman: Whoa.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh!

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah. But yeah, no. I was already a coastal elitist, and now I'm arguably even more of one. I I think.

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Tad Eggleston: You write about Broadway.

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Alexandra Bowman: That? Right? Yeah, yeah, I think my entire website and Instagram could just have as many supporting pieces of evidence for that as you as you.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean you do have. Well, no, that's the Mark Twain prize that's on the East coast, too. It was just Mark Twain that'd be in the middle of it.

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Alexandra Bowman: Oh! That!

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Tad Eggleston: That's a great.

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Alexandra Bowman: Argument for it, because I was covering Jon Stewart, winning a comedy award at the Kennedy Center, which you know. I'm sure that Greg Gutfeld would love the the stand-up bits that were delivered, and the Jon Stewart resume bullets that were celebrated that night. I'm sure he'd love it. But yeah, I doubt that my opinion I'm not very.

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Alexandra Bowman: I'm not informed directly on the struggles of people in Pennsylvania who are lashing out and voting for trump like this, but I would encourage them to think beyond the impact of the President's.

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Tad Eggleston: Well.

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Alexandra Bowman: Identity on themselves, you know.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Alexandra Bowman: Am I to say that I get it? But you can see the impacts clearly in the statistics, and if you don't believe the news networks who are saying it then? I don't know what to tell you.

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Tad Eggleston: Right? No, and that that's that's actually my frustration is

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Tad Eggleston: and I live in the middle of America. I mean, I live near Chicago. But I've always lived in superb Chicago. I've got actually, probably as many routes to

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Tad Eggleston: rural areas as I do to

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Tad Eggleston: urban areas. Which is why I was shocked last Tuesday.

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Tad Eggleston: because

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Tad Eggleston: this is something Jen Sorensen and I talked about, too, because she she grew up rural.

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Tad Eggleston: She had a great cartoon

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Tad Eggleston: about

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Tad Eggleston: like

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Tad Eggleston: the Lefty rural diner.

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Tad Eggleston: Right? Why don't you come here.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right. That's great.

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Tad Eggleston: you know. I mean, these places don't have the type of majorities that that a lot of people think they they have

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Tad Eggleston: cause. When you're smaller, you know, 60% means

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Tad Eggleston: 600 to 400.

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Tad Eggleston: It, you know. I mean for a lot of towns. It's literally like 600 to 400. And yeah, that's 60%. But that means you, you convince a hundred people

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Tad Eggleston: right?

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean their entire I mean, I I remember like

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Tad Eggleston: when when Trump was throwing

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Tad Eggleston: fucking paper towels to Puerto Ricans. I'm sitting there going. You know you're all citizens.

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Tad Eggleston: I bet you we could spread you out and turn the entire midwest blue

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Tad Eggleston: because you have enough people to do it.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right if you.

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Tad Eggleston: Move to the right places.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right? Well, and there's so many demographics we can point to that. Were that help push, trump over the line. One that really stuck out to me was something highlighted in a couple of different Npr. And Washington Post Instagram Posts. It's like

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Alexandra Bowman: immigrants who feel like the ladder should be pulled up behind them. It's like I got in.

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Alexandra Bowman: I should get the resources now, and you know there's there's complexities there that I will never understand. I do know that. My my grandma was a 1st generation Vietnamese immigrant she was I, kid you, not in the Vietnamese Palace. I don't know exactly what her title was, but I know that my great great uncle was the last Emperor of Vietnam, so I don't know what her title was which I know it doesn't help my case, but

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Alexandra Bowman: I've seen the impact of

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Alexandra Bowman: my grandma's upbringing on my parents, and I understand why, there would be a desire to, you know.

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Alexandra Bowman: for all that pain claim the resources that are prep. I. I understand that on second hand, I get it.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean.

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Alexandra Bowman: That's a tough moral argument, you know. That's that's a tough.

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Tad Eggleston: And I'm certain that there's some of that. I think the media is is

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Tad Eggleston: actually just

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Tad Eggleston: desperately trying to look hard for something other than the idea that

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Tad Eggleston: the meanness is a feature to his voters, not a bug.

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Tad Eggleston: and that somehow there's

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Tad Eggleston: 75 million people who I mean, cause that that's the part I've been struggling with. That's the part that's had me not wanting to get out of my get out of bed, is I? I had this bedrock belief

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Tad Eggleston: that Americans

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Tad Eggleston: were

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Tad Eggleston: kinder than that.

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Tad Eggleston: This bedrock belief

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Tad Eggleston: that Americans

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Tad Eggleston: believed

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Tad Eggleston: in actual liberty.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, I think it's tough to make. And I mean, I want to believe in that emotionally. But I think it's tough to make any assertion about.

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Tad Eggleston: Certainly not anymore.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Because because here's the thing. In 2,016

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Tad Eggleston: you could claim to not know.

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Tad Eggleston: He had completely mixed messaging.

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Tad Eggleston: He hadn't taken over the party.

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Tad Eggleston: He'd never served in office.

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Tad Eggleston: Now he's served in office.

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Tad Eggleston: Everybody who stood against him

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Tad Eggleston: has been ejected from the party.

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Tad Eggleston: and he stopped, even pretending

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Tad Eggleston: that he's not going to be horrible.

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Alexandra Bowman: And you saw, of course, that Matt Gaetz was.

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Tad Eggleston: Call out!

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Alexandra Bowman: Nothing gonna be nominated to be.

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Tad Eggleston: Which isn't even his work, I mean, like it made me physically ill when I saw it. I literally threw up in my mouth when that news dropped today.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, right, right.

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Tad Eggleston: And it's still not as bad as the the what's his name from Fox News, heading up the

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Tad Eggleston: largest military in the world.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right right and.

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Tad Eggleston: And the single largest piece of the Us. Budget.

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Tad Eggleston: Let's just give a fox. He's not even good enough for Daily Fox News. He's the Fox news weekend host.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: Talks about how the military is too woke.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: And now he's gonna be the Secretary of Defense. Are you fucking kidding me.

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Alexandra Bowman: I know. Yeah, I I think. What did the Matt Walsh Tweet last week? It's like, Oh, yeah, we lied. Project 2025 is the lol, or something?

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah. Oh, my, gosh, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Mean, and and that's the thing. And and unfortunately, I've known enough of them personally that I that I am now fearing that like

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Tad Eggleston: there is just a huge a

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Tad Eggleston: you are you a sports fan at all?

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Alexandra Bowman: I like. I love some sports. I love I I love the Nationals.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay. So you know, baseball.

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Alexandra Bowman: Increasingly invested in the Yankees, so.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh!

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Alexandra Bowman: I got.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh! Whoo!

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Alexandra Bowman: I have. I went to a Yankees game, and.

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Tad Eggleston: Hey!

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Alexandra Bowman: And that's.

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Tad Eggleston: The.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

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Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, I know, and I'm going to not have them win at all, either. I don't know why I'm.

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Tad Eggleston: I'm that I'm happy for.

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Alexandra Bowman: Okay.

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Tad Eggleston: Season Tickets for Alexandra.

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Alexandra Bowman: Well, they're not gonna win. Great! I can go to the game. Say, went to the game and be on my phone the whole time that that sounds really relaxing, actually.

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Tad Eggleston: So

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Tad Eggleston: the Cubs Sox rivalry in Chicago.

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Tad Eggleston: I think, actually can be used

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Tad Eggleston: is a decent allegory.

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Tad Eggleston: 4.

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Tad Eggleston: the the bigger

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Tad Eggleston: this is just literally, I'm I'm thinking this out loud. So so so let me

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Tad Eggleston: the Cubs Cubs Fans for the most part.

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Tad Eggleston: just don't care about the socks.

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Tad Eggleston: They don't dislike the Sox. They don't particularly dislike sox fans. They'll root for them when they're doing well.

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Tad Eggleston: They'll go to a sox game. They'd love to see a a Cub socks World series, because that'd mean all the games were in Chicago.

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Tad Eggleston: White Sox fans

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Tad Eggleston: tends to to define themselves more by hating the cubs.

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Alexandra Bowman: Sure I take. I'll take your word for it.

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Tad Eggleston: I once took a math class from White Sox fan, and and he knew I was a Cubs fan. I wore my cubs cap half the time I walked in one day wearing a twins cap.

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Tad Eggleston: The twins had

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Tad Eggleston: in the 10 days previous to that, won 6 games against the White Sox

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Tad Eggleston: and gone from 3 games back

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Tad Eggleston: in the American League, Central

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Tad Eggleston: 3 games behind the White Sox to 3 games in front of the White Sox.

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Tad Eggleston: he said, oh, you finally saw the light. You got rid of that damn cubs, cap, and I'm like, do you know what team this is? No, what team the twins. It's like, Oh, the twins are okay. I'm like

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Tad Eggleston: you were in 1st place a week ago.

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Tad Eggleston: and they've single handedly knocked you into 3.rd

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: He's like, Oh, well, I haven't really been paying attention. I'm like, Oh, my God! Every single time I walk into this room wearing a cubs cap.

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Alexandra Bowman: And this.

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Tad Eggleston: Was like beef.

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Tad Eggleston: This was like at a time where interleague play was just one series a year. So they played 3 games a year against the Cubs.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

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Tad Eggleston: 19 games a year against the twins, and at that point in the year the twins had won 10 of 12.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right! Oh, exactly.

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Tad Eggleston: So I think that's part of the problem is that somehow

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Tad Eggleston: a significant portion of the Republican party doesn't give a damn about what government does, doesn't give a damn and or just doesn't believe the government does anything

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Tad Eggleston: right or doesn't do anything good. So if we get rid of it, that'll be bad, because they.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right.

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Tad Eggleston: Haven't thought about how roads are built, or or who pays for the police or the fire department. Never mind teachers or librarians, or whatever.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right well, and if they're not helping me directly, then they must not be helping anybody, or if they're not, I'm not directly seeing how they're.

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Tad Eggleston: Seeing them, help me!

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Alexandra Bowman: Could be helping me, but.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Alexandra Bowman: Seeing it. It's not happening, you know.

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Tad Eggleston: But they have decided

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Tad Eggleston: that all Democrats are the devil.

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Tad Eggleston: sometimes literally.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right

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Alexandra Bowman: right

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Tad Eggleston: And therefore I mean.

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Tad Eggleston: all all Republicans have to do is run on owning the lips.

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Tad Eggleston: All they have to do to fundraise is break the government. I mean, that's that was the the real evilness of the Reagan

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Tad Eggleston: government is the problem.

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Tad Eggleston: Don't ask.

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Tad Eggleston: Don't ask the Government to solve your problems. The government is the problems, the the insidiousness of that is, you created an incentive structure for the Republican party

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Tad Eggleston: to make the Government back.

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Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? Well, it's the classic thing, right? It's like government is inefficient. But we're not going to fund it properly to make it more efficient. Maybe it already is efficient. But we're not going to do anything to fix the problems we're observing. And then we're going to continue pointing to it and saying, there's.

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Tad Eggleston: See, it's bad.

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Alexandra Bowman: It seems like very much like the Cinderella thing it's like, Oh, you can go to the ball if you pick up all the lentils off the fireplace. Oh, but we're going to dump the lentils. In the 1st place.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, so

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Tad Eggleston: you're

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Tad Eggleston: 24.

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Tad Eggleston: So you've gotten 4 years of Joe Biden, and how? How? How political were you for your late high school? Early college years? Were you already starting to get into it?

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Alexandra Bowman: I was so I had a friend who introduced me to Stephen Colbert when I was, you know, late middle school, early High School, because he liked the Lord of the Rings, and that was my big thing at the time. And then I really liked how the late night hosts were entertaining me while teaching me simultaneously. And that idea that I could enjoy myself while not feeling guilty about it, was really formative, and, like all of my interests.

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Alexandra Bowman: So that's why I want to. That's why I've done a lot of the political cartoon work. That's why I'm interested in doing late night. I have this deep seated fear of wasting time and wasting other people's time, and I'd ideally like for people's entertainment to be more fruitful if we're going to be spending this much time.

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Tad Eggleston: I am. Yeah, yeah.

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Alexandra Bowman: So

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Alexandra Bowman: but yeah, I I was getting into my late night phase. Which is ongoing, and.

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Tad Eggleston: See I

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Tad Eggleston: I so wish that you were like

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Tad Eggleston: just for you. I wish.

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Alexandra Bowman: Should you.

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Tad Eggleston: We're we're we're

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Tad Eggleston: were my age, or that there was a better access to stuff, because you know what Colbert did before late night. Don't you.

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Alexandra Bowman: I do. Yes, I do. Improv comedy.

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Tad Eggleston: No, no, no, no, no, no.

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Alexandra Bowman: He is.

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Tad Eggleston: Perfectly.

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Alexandra Bowman: Double, majored in political science and.

389
00:29:16.730 --> 00:29:17.849
Tad Eggleston: Right right. But

390
00:29:18.810 --> 00:29:20.779
Tad Eggleston: do you know about the Colbert report.

391
00:29:20.780 --> 00:29:23.299
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, of course! Oh, yes, the holy.

392
00:29:23.300 --> 00:29:26.669
Tad Eggleston: See, see, I grew. I grew up

393
00:29:26.810 --> 00:29:28.120
Tad Eggleston: watching

394
00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:32.530
Tad Eggleston: Jon Stewart on the daily show, followed up by the Colbert report.

395
00:29:32.530 --> 00:29:33.290
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

396
00:29:33.290 --> 00:29:36.410
Tad Eggleston: Where Colbert was trying to be the funny

397
00:29:37.080 --> 00:29:48.549
Tad Eggleston: right wing news. It actually had a surprising number of right wing people fall for it, which is like, it's kind of like the onion sometimes, I mean, yeah, I always love it when you have, like

398
00:29:48.690 --> 00:29:52.835
Tad Eggleston: Republican Senators, tweeting articles from the onion. And it's like,

399
00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:55.710
Tad Eggleston: they're making fun of you.

400
00:29:55.890 --> 00:29:56.730
Tad Eggleston: I can't.

401
00:29:56.730 --> 00:30:10.609
Alexandra Bowman: To leave it like I don't know. I maybe like maybe similar to your injured faith. I really thought that there were enough jokes throughout any given episode of the Colbert report to disprove that.

402
00:30:10.610 --> 00:30:17.240
Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah, no, I mean those of us who who had tuned in for Jon Stewart. We knew what was going on.

403
00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:46.550
Alexandra Bowman: Right like, I guess reality has a well-known liberal bias that is at the same level of self delusion and confidence and kind of absolutist assertion that a lot of fox news hosts are making now, so I can kind of understand how totally it's the same. But I guess I hope that people in 2,006 weren't as deluded at that point.

404
00:30:46.550 --> 00:30:48.510
Tad Eggleston: I mean he I remember

405
00:30:50.560 --> 00:30:57.240
Tad Eggleston: 2,004. He he did a pretended to run for President for a while, and actually had people show up.

406
00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:57.870
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

407
00:30:59.560 --> 00:31:02.520
Alexandra Bowman: right, exactly exactly.

408
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:16.580
Tad Eggleston: But yeah, no those, though I mean with with I I really like the current daily. I would love Trevor Noah, I Miss Trevor. Noah, I get. Why he left. I think he just couldn't do it anymore.

409
00:31:18.780 --> 00:31:19.630
Tad Eggleston: but

410
00:31:20.330 --> 00:31:22.409
Tad Eggleston: but the early Jon Stewart.

411
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:29.390
Tad Eggleston: So the other thing is trump just changed the ball game that was actually where I was gonna go is is you?

412
00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:35.840
Tad Eggleston: We're starting to get into this during the trump years you've had the biden years. Now you're looking down the barrel of trump again.

413
00:31:36.870 --> 00:31:39.109
Tad Eggleston: From a cartoonist perspective.

414
00:31:42.070 --> 00:31:43.979
Tad Eggleston: talking about the difference

415
00:31:44.550 --> 00:31:51.129
Tad Eggleston: and what it feels like, or what it felt like when you were starting versus how it felt like for 4 years.

416
00:31:51.250 --> 00:31:58.489
Tad Eggleston: and and what you're looking forward to dreading whatever going forward because.

417
00:31:58.490 --> 00:32:11.400
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah. And that's something I'm continuing to evolve my take on, I think a lot of where I'm at ties into that same declining faith that you and I have been focusing on

418
00:32:11.817 --> 00:32:33.110
Alexandra Bowman: at least from my 1617 year old vantage point in 2016, when I loved all the snl stuff. I memorized the Republican primary debate, one with Ted Cruz and Chris Christie. I would recite lines in the car to family, not realizing they were sex references. I didn't know.

419
00:32:33.110 --> 00:32:37.049
Tad Eggleston: Wow! If you didn't realize that it's 16, you.

420
00:32:37.050 --> 00:32:37.830
Alexandra Bowman: I did.

421
00:32:38.220 --> 00:32:40.119
Tad Eggleston: I grew up, sheltered.

422
00:32:40.393 --> 00:32:43.670
Alexandra Bowman: If you're just listening to this, I am all red, my forehead.

423
00:32:43.670 --> 00:32:44.020
Tad Eggleston: Only

424
00:32:44.980 --> 00:32:47.299
Tad Eggleston: we we don't publish video.

425
00:32:47.300 --> 00:32:51.449
Alexandra Bowman: Okay, there you go. When I tap my forehead. There's a little white thing that.

426
00:32:51.450 --> 00:32:52.240
Tad Eggleston: See it.

427
00:32:52.240 --> 00:33:08.600
Alexandra Bowman: That's true. I didn't fully understand so much of what was going on. Part of that was not understanding, perhaps, how bad things were going to get. Maybe others were found themselves in that, too.

428
00:33:08.890 --> 00:33:24.869
Alexandra Bowman: I think at least it felt at the time we could all laugh about it a little bit, because it seemed so obvious that trump was in the wrong, and people who voted for him were, you know, maybe it was understandable. But how could you possibly do that? There seemed to be this assumed

429
00:33:25.268 --> 00:33:50.371
Alexandra Bowman: central hive mind consciousness about how ridiculous he was, and then, in 2020 at least, from my vantage point it seemed like those ideas were confirmed that yeah, he is terrible, and the popular vote reflects how most people think that. And then, now, we've essentially been told we were kind of gaslit or fooled 4 years ago, and it actually is

430
00:33:50.770 --> 00:33:51.380
Tad Eggleston: I mean.

431
00:33:51.380 --> 00:33:51.740
Alexandra Bowman: That.

432
00:33:51.740 --> 00:33:53.460
Tad Eggleston: I think that's the hardest part for me. Is that he

433
00:33:53.810 --> 00:33:58.839
Tad Eggleston: the popular phone thankfully, as it turns out, by much slimmer margin than it looked like initially.

434
00:33:58.840 --> 00:34:00.810
Alexandra Bowman: Okay, that's good. That's good. I.

435
00:34:00.810 --> 00:34:07.420
Tad Eggleston: The not all of the votes have been counted. But when I was reading I think it was Nate Silver this morning

436
00:34:07.430 --> 00:34:12.310
Tad Eggleston: who was pointing out that it will actually be a slimmer margin.

437
00:34:12.530 --> 00:34:14.030
Tad Eggleston: Then, Hillary.

438
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:15.060
Tad Eggleston: add.

439
00:34:15.550 --> 00:34:15.900
Alexandra Bowman: Thank you.

440
00:34:15.909 --> 00:34:17.269
Tad Eggleston: 2,016.

441
00:34:17.270 --> 00:34:18.280
Alexandra Bowman: Well, there's.

442
00:34:18.640 --> 00:34:19.360
Tad Eggleston: Little girl.

443
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:23.690
Alexandra Bowman: Of a joy in that I get a little bit of a relief in that it will be.

444
00:34:23.699 --> 00:34:33.259
Tad Eggleston: It will be the slimmest electoral vote margin for a winning candidate. Since I want to say Nixon in 70

445
00:34:33.949 --> 00:34:35.709
Tad Eggleston: they're Nixon in 68.

446
00:34:35.710 --> 00:34:39.629
Alexandra Bowman: Right. Oh, my gosh! Well, that's slightly good.

447
00:34:40.501 --> 00:34:43.550
Tad Eggleston: Not if Matt Gates is the Attorney General.

448
00:34:43.550 --> 00:35:05.959
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? It's it's hard for me to ever say that something could be worse and have that feel like a an actual, practical, heartwarming argument, but it could be worse. But yeah, anyway. So what I've kind of been grappling with is someone who desperately wants into late night, and I applied madly after my master's degree was over, thinking that starting my own show and the Master's degree would be enough to persuade hiring employers. But it wasn't.

449
00:35:06.230 --> 00:35:08.770
Tad Eggleston: Little see you're in the wrong town. You went to New York so.

450
00:35:09.640 --> 00:35:10.510
Alexandra Bowman: City.

451
00:35:10.510 --> 00:35:11.710
Tad Eggleston: Is in Chicago.

452
00:35:11.983 --> 00:35:14.990
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, well, all the late night shows are here, but.

453
00:35:14.990 --> 00:35:18.930
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, but but they come here to scout almost all of.

454
00:35:18.930 --> 00:35:24.709
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, really! Oh, no, all right. Well, I'm gonna have to move a 3rd time in a month. Oh, no.

455
00:35:24.710 --> 00:35:27.760
Tad Eggleston: I mean. Seth Meyers was here team.

456
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:28.110
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

457
00:35:28.110 --> 00:35:31.449
Tad Eggleston: Was here. Amy Poehler was here.

458
00:35:32.060 --> 00:35:37.929
Tad Eggleston: I mean the number like 80% of everybody who's ever been on Saturday night live. But.

459
00:35:37.930 --> 00:35:50.650
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right. I just saw that movie. By the way, it was really good Saturday night about the 1st ever snl night. They just made a whole drama dramedy about it.

460
00:35:50.650 --> 00:35:51.929
Tad Eggleston: I did not know that.

461
00:35:51.930 --> 00:35:52.950
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, it was good.

462
00:35:52.950 --> 00:35:54.430
Tad Eggleston: And my wife knows that cause.

463
00:35:54.430 --> 00:35:55.400
Alexandra Bowman: Yes.

464
00:35:55.660 --> 00:36:01.200
Tad Eggleston: Saturday night live, and the Simpsons are the 2 things that she knows everything about.

465
00:36:01.200 --> 00:36:02.279
Alexandra Bowman: There you go right.

466
00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:06.070
Tad Eggleston: Everything that and all things, art, history.

467
00:36:06.070 --> 00:36:12.750
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? But yeah, so but yeah, I I felt at least

468
00:36:12.940 --> 00:36:23.752
Alexandra Bowman: throughout the last 8 years. And I'm starting to have this belief change more and more. I was trying to get inklings of this personally in the last, maybe year or so, but I'm really starting to feel that.

469
00:36:25.780 --> 00:36:26.920
Alexandra Bowman: It's not

470
00:36:27.040 --> 00:36:30.139
Alexandra Bowman: 1st of all, a lot of these jokes just aren't

471
00:36:30.330 --> 00:36:37.320
Alexandra Bowman: funny anymore, not because the writing isn't good. Often I don't think it's that good often, but you know.

472
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:37.910
Tad Eggleston: Lose track of.

473
00:36:37.910 --> 00:37:01.450
Alexandra Bowman: Well, a lot of the late night industrial complexes, typical commentary on this. It's not as funny anymore, partially because it doesn't feel like it is an air. These. This chaos we're going through is something that can be fixed in any way from levity. So I feel almost guilty for laughing about it, because, as said, I fear, wasting time. So before.

474
00:37:01.450 --> 00:37:01.850
Tad Eggleston: I.

475
00:37:01.850 --> 00:37:24.920
Alexandra Bowman: When I thought that jokes could persuade people I thought they were. They were funny, and they I laughter often unites people, and I thought maybe they were useful, and for that reason, but I'm worried now that those same talking points are maybe hurting more than they're helping, and are ultimately not really addressing the core issue.

476
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:32.499
Alexandra Bowman: whatever's dividing Americans at their core at its core. And I'm sure it's more than one thing, obviously. But I'm a little bit concerned about it. For that reason.

477
00:37:33.210 --> 00:37:39.459
Tad Eggleston: No, I I get it. And people have been making that argument since the Daily show debuted

478
00:37:40.131 --> 00:37:43.710
Tad Eggleston: which is where? Where? I'll say absolutely.

479
00:37:44.120 --> 00:37:48.329
Tad Eggleston: I don't think there's actually any real evidence of it. I think if anything

480
00:37:51.770 --> 00:37:56.729
Tad Eggleston: it's what allows those of us who are really hurting right now not to give up.

481
00:37:57.090 --> 00:37:57.760
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

482
00:37:59.149 --> 00:37:59.599
Alexandra Bowman: right.

483
00:37:59.600 --> 00:38:02.589
Tad Eggleston: That's really what it's about. It's less about. I mean.

484
00:38:03.820 --> 00:38:06.789
Tad Eggleston: it's about educating people.

485
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:09.469
Tad Eggleston: Blanket educated you.

486
00:38:10.160 --> 00:38:12.885
Tad Eggleston: Okay? But it's not. It's

487
00:38:14.250 --> 00:38:22.009
Tad Eggleston: If you're over 25. It's unlikely to be educating you, educating you, I mean, it might be giving you

488
00:38:23.120 --> 00:38:26.880
Tad Eggleston: new information to go along with the

489
00:38:28.370 --> 00:38:34.540
Tad Eggleston: opinions you already have, or roads to go down, and that's 1 of the reasons that I appreciate so much

490
00:38:34.590 --> 00:38:37.480
Tad Eggleston: that both Stewart and Colbert have been

491
00:38:37.680 --> 00:38:40.270
Tad Eggleston: ridiculous about sourcing their stuff.

492
00:38:41.820 --> 00:38:46.259
Tad Eggleston: you know. They they make certain you know what they're telling you

493
00:38:47.750 --> 00:39:04.029
Tad Eggleston: is true when it's factual and why. And and they don't hide their jokes, and they certainly don't try to make jokes to imply that something's bigger or smaller than than it is. You know what I mean, I mean, as a political cartoonist. You've got to.

494
00:39:04.240 --> 00:39:09.749
Tad Eggleston: I I'm certain, and appreciate this because I've seen enough of your cartoons to see the way

495
00:39:10.690 --> 00:39:15.250
Tad Eggleston: you find the humor in something, but your humor is not.

496
00:39:17.180 --> 00:39:18.650
Tad Eggleston: I mean you've got.

497
00:39:18.710 --> 00:39:29.829
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I'm literally just pulling up a random one. If I have to create stories to send a message, I will. Jd. Vance, you've got your your fiction writers and AI trying to take our job was bad enough.

498
00:39:31.961 --> 00:39:35.810
Tad Eggleston: So so you found that kernel of humor.

499
00:39:36.590 --> 00:39:38.250
Tad Eggleston: but it's not.

500
00:39:39.810 --> 00:39:43.250
Tad Eggleston: It's making the pill easier to go down. It's not.

501
00:39:43.250 --> 00:39:44.750
Alexandra Bowman: Thank you. I'm glad.

502
00:39:44.750 --> 00:39:45.160
Tad Eggleston: From it.

503
00:39:46.130 --> 00:39:48.210
Tad Eggleston: No, I I'm just

504
00:39:48.220 --> 00:39:55.059
Tad Eggleston: think it again. I I strongly believe it, and I'm pretty certain that if you wanted me to, I could go

505
00:39:55.150 --> 00:39:57.739
Tad Eggleston: dig up the academic research that would.

506
00:39:59.810 --> 00:40:00.250
Alexandra Bowman: That.

507
00:40:00.250 --> 00:40:01.219
Tad Eggleston: It! Up!

508
00:40:01.220 --> 00:40:21.604
Alexandra Bowman: Thank you. Well, the best piece of advice I ever got on cartooning political cartooning was, you got to start with a thesis? You got to start with a clear message, because if you don't have a clear message, your cartoon is either not going to be funny, or it's not going to make sense, or both and

509
00:40:22.040 --> 00:40:47.890
Alexandra Bowman: what I all. So I founded that late night show in college, and of course, as somebody entering into the comedy situation or starting to do comedy for the 1st time. I wasn't very good, and I had a lot of people correctly telling me that it wasn't good. And so I have this, I'll admit, like deep fear of being not funny. So.

510
00:40:47.890 --> 00:40:48.410
Tad Eggleston: Hard.

511
00:40:48.410 --> 00:40:51.619
Alexandra Bowman: My thought is that look.

512
00:40:52.040 --> 00:41:16.649
Alexandra Bowman: I think that if I can start with a main idea, then I can at least have a concrete starting point, or as I called it, in my undergraduate thesis. A clear What are those things called that? Go into pools? Diving board. You gotta diving board from which to jump into the pool from. You gotta have that that platform first.st

513
00:41:16.660 --> 00:41:42.799
Alexandra Bowman: And I figured if I have that 1st at a minimum. I'm making a clear, interesting argument. And hopefully, after that, once I had that foundation, I can make a good joke hopefully. So I felt at least in my because I didn't do a cartoon for 2 years. I stopped after I was let go by the Lincoln project, and then I had another gig with John Kasich and John Kerry.

514
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:48.910
Alexandra Bowman: Environmental platforms stop. And I sent off so many emails to so many publications, asking them

515
00:41:48.910 --> 00:42:15.050
Alexandra Bowman: if I could do cartoons, and nothing happened that, I decided, look, this is certainly not a financially viable industry. I'm going to cut my losses and try something else. And then out of the blue, a friend of mine, Kevin necessary, who was exhibiting at emailed me and said, How would you like to? Are you free in late September, and I said yes, and he said, How would you like to be? You know the inaugural looker, blah blah? And that was awesome.

516
00:42:15.050 --> 00:42:33.190
Alexandra Bowman: and they asked, how you know I they gave me an award, despite me not doing a cartoon in 2 years, and then they said, How can we adjust this award and its prizes in a way that is maximally helpful to you. Which is wonderful, like I said. And I, said, Job, please, because what I've

517
00:42:33.580 --> 00:42:43.510
Alexandra Bowman: realized over time is that awards and resume bullets are means to an end. They get you jobs, at least in my phase of life. They're.

518
00:42:43.510 --> 00:42:44.479
Tad Eggleston: One can hope, anyway.

519
00:42:44.480 --> 00:43:11.469
Alexandra Bowman: Right, and the money before you have the job and resume bullets are means of of being impressive to employers. When you wave those things in their faces. That is what they're for. So I said, I'd like to cut out the middleman job, please. And they said, Okay, where? And I said, Oh, how about counterpoint? Which is this publication made by Nick Anderson, a political cartoonist for only political cartoons?

520
00:43:11.470 --> 00:43:23.739
Alexandra Bowman: And so I've been doing cartoons for them for several months now, and I'm so glad that someone came along and and kind of reached down and saved me, and said.

521
00:43:23.740 --> 00:43:24.210
Tad Eggleston: Hey!

522
00:43:24.210 --> 00:43:24.939
Alexandra Bowman: Do. Cartoons

523
00:43:25.720 --> 00:43:27.620
Alexandra Bowman: needed someone to force me to do it.

524
00:43:27.950 --> 00:43:31.090
Tad Eggleston: There's nothing better than than

525
00:43:31.660 --> 00:43:33.390
Tad Eggleston: having people who believe in you.

526
00:43:33.390 --> 00:43:36.610
Alexandra Bowman: Yes, also. Your Kitty, who just came on screen, is adorable.

527
00:43:36.610 --> 00:43:41.010
Tad Eggleston: This this is Eddie. Eddie takes part in almost every podcast.

528
00:43:41.010 --> 00:43:42.279
Alexandra Bowman: Hello! He's a he's a.

529
00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:43.610
Tad Eggleston: Rat, but I love him.

530
00:43:43.610 --> 00:43:45.276
Alexandra Bowman: Oh! Precious!

531
00:43:46.110 --> 00:43:48.219
Tad Eggleston: May try to steal the microphone.

532
00:43:48.220 --> 00:43:48.890
Alexandra Bowman: Oh!

533
00:43:48.890 --> 00:43:54.779
Tad Eggleston: I switched. I switched from a stand up microphone to the headset microphone entirely because

534
00:43:55.160 --> 00:43:56.580
Tad Eggleston: he

535
00:43:56.930 --> 00:43:59.659
Tad Eggleston: would knock the stand up, microphone down.

536
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:01.510
Tad Eggleston: But only

537
00:44:01.610 --> 00:44:03.250
Tad Eggleston: when I was using it.

538
00:44:03.250 --> 00:44:05.169
Alexandra Bowman: Awesome, fantastic. That's

539
00:44:06.170 --> 00:44:08.830
Alexandra Bowman: he is doing his job as a cat. That's great.

540
00:44:08.830 --> 00:44:12.420
Tad Eggleston: Yes, yes, and he's the granddaughter, whisperer.

541
00:44:12.420 --> 00:44:16.469
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, that's I love! How he just walked into your arm!

542
00:44:16.470 --> 00:44:18.450
Tad Eggleston: He's my granddaughter's best friend.

543
00:44:18.450 --> 00:44:22.779
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, cute! He seems like you just hopped into your arms. I love it.

544
00:44:22.780 --> 00:44:33.980
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Sometimes he'll hop on my shoulders. Sometimes he'll try to bite things. Sometimes he'll he. He's a big escape, or yeah, no, I'm telling her all about you in case she ever visits. She'll know not to let you outside.

545
00:44:34.175 --> 00:44:34.760
Alexandra Bowman: There you go!

546
00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:36.570
Tad Eggleston: Won't you won't convince her.

547
00:44:36.570 --> 00:44:37.280
Alexandra Bowman: There you go!

548
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:38.710
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

549
00:44:39.203 --> 00:44:40.190
Alexandra Bowman: Did she?

550
00:44:40.190 --> 00:44:42.419
Tad Eggleston: He convinced the he managed.

551
00:44:42.420 --> 00:44:43.020
Alexandra Bowman: Okay.

552
00:44:44.109 --> 00:44:49.220
Tad Eggleston: We had friends over for dinner one night, and their 5 year old came up. I let Eddie out.

553
00:44:49.630 --> 00:44:51.210
Tad Eggleston: and it's like, Oh, the cat.

554
00:44:51.210 --> 00:44:51.670
Alexandra Bowman: Doesn't.

555
00:44:51.670 --> 00:44:55.970
Tad Eggleston: Let out, but he wanted to go out, and we're like, we know that he wanted to go.

556
00:44:56.448 --> 00:45:01.230
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, no, I'm glad he's okay. He's a good boy.

557
00:45:01.230 --> 00:45:01.900
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. No. Like.

558
00:45:01.900 --> 00:45:02.410
Alexandra Bowman: That's.

559
00:45:02.410 --> 00:45:12.730
Tad Eggleston: A every time anybody rings the you know. Any anytime anybody comes to the door and I have to open it to talk to them. There's a good chance he'll slip, you know.

560
00:45:12.730 --> 00:45:13.500
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

561
00:45:13.500 --> 00:45:15.140
Tad Eggleston: He's our little escape artist.

562
00:45:15.140 --> 00:45:15.970
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

563
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:19.260
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I'm telling all of your secrets

564
00:45:20.120 --> 00:45:20.800
Tad Eggleston: with it.

565
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:22.509
Alexandra Bowman: Spill you busy laundry.

566
00:45:23.780 --> 00:45:24.970
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, I

567
00:45:25.600 --> 00:45:28.320
Alexandra Bowman: little pause from here. That's absolutely precious.

568
00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:29.510
Tad Eggleston: He's fantastic

569
00:45:29.610 --> 00:45:31.610
Tad Eggleston: most of the time. Some of the time

570
00:45:32.220 --> 00:45:33.640
Tad Eggleston: when he's not being a brat.

571
00:45:33.640 --> 00:45:34.850
Alexandra Bowman: Oh.

572
00:45:35.590 --> 00:45:36.349
Alexandra Bowman: I love him!

573
00:45:36.350 --> 00:45:39.469
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, see, there he is for the microphone.

574
00:45:40.185 --> 00:45:44.090
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, my gosh! It looks like a little mouse or a bug.

575
00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:45.500
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.

576
00:45:45.500 --> 00:45:46.430
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

577
00:45:47.080 --> 00:45:47.760
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

578
00:45:49.270 --> 00:45:50.540
Tad Eggleston: The.

579
00:45:50.540 --> 00:45:51.420
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, my! Gosh!

580
00:45:51.420 --> 00:45:54.080
Tad Eggleston: We lost his older brother last week. So.

581
00:45:54.080 --> 00:45:55.319
Alexandra Bowman: Oh no!

582
00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:55.970
Tad Eggleston: I'm so.

583
00:45:55.970 --> 00:45:56.620
Alexandra Bowman: Sorry.

584
00:45:56.930 --> 00:45:59.590
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, that that was not

585
00:46:00.130 --> 00:46:02.850
Tad Eggleston: the icing on last week that I wanted.

586
00:46:02.850 --> 00:46:04.600
Alexandra Bowman: No, I'm so sorry.

587
00:46:05.900 --> 00:46:08.329
Alexandra Bowman: Lost my childhood dog like

588
00:46:08.980 --> 00:46:11.679
Alexandra Bowman: go! I'm there with you. I'm so.

589
00:46:11.680 --> 00:46:12.980
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.

590
00:46:12.980 --> 00:46:13.740
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

591
00:46:14.340 --> 00:46:20.440
Tad Eggleston: No, I I actually spent election night sitting sitting with the cat that I was pretty certain would

592
00:46:20.530 --> 00:46:23.640
Tad Eggleston: he'd been to the vet that day because he

593
00:46:23.740 --> 00:46:29.019
Tad Eggleston: he was diabetic. So he had an appointment, anyway. But somewhere he developed and

594
00:46:29.310 --> 00:46:31.340
Tad Eggleston: abscess on his

595
00:46:31.820 --> 00:46:33.090
Tad Eggleston: hind quarters.

596
00:46:33.090 --> 00:46:33.889
Alexandra Bowman: Oh no!

597
00:46:33.890 --> 00:46:35.159
Tad Eggleston: And it popped

598
00:46:35.240 --> 00:46:42.120
Tad Eggleston: sometime during the night. So when my wife went to to get him to take him to the Vet on Tuesday morning he was bleeding.

599
00:46:42.120 --> 00:46:42.900
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, my God!

600
00:46:42.900 --> 00:46:45.760
Tad Eggleston: And it was pretty bad.

601
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:46.430
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, my goodness!

602
00:46:46.430 --> 00:46:50.419
Tad Eggleston: And he was given antibiotics, and a cone was put on his head and.

603
00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:50.750
Alexandra Bowman: Oh!

604
00:46:50.750 --> 00:46:55.769
Tad Eggleston: Like it was. You need to bring them back Thursday, and we'll figure out if it's

605
00:46:55.890 --> 00:46:59.400
Tad Eggleston: healing or whether we need to do surgery. Of course

606
00:46:59.500 --> 00:47:03.719
Tad Eggleston: you know the the whether we need to do surgery was also like

607
00:47:05.030 --> 00:47:07.720
Tad Eggleston: he's 13, and he's diabetic.

608
00:47:07.720 --> 00:47:08.420
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

609
00:47:09.120 --> 00:47:12.839
Tad Eggleston: So I spent election night sitting on the floor of our bathroom with him.

610
00:47:13.050 --> 00:47:21.609
Tad Eggleston: watching watching results come in, and being very, very aware that there was a good chance that I was going to take him to that on Thursday, and not bring him home.

611
00:47:21.610 --> 00:47:23.740
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, my goodness! Oh, I'm so.

612
00:47:23.740 --> 00:47:25.300
Tad Eggleston: That was my election night. It.

613
00:47:25.300 --> 00:47:26.750
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, yeah.

614
00:47:26.750 --> 00:47:31.650
Tad Eggleston: Sucked. The least that the world could have done for me is, had election night go better.

615
00:47:31.850 --> 00:47:32.850
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

616
00:47:32.850 --> 00:47:34.779
Tad Eggleston: It still would have sucked.

617
00:47:34.780 --> 00:47:39.459
Alexandra Bowman: Right hopefully. You at least didn't check your phone until following morning, or.

618
00:47:39.460 --> 00:47:41.329
Tad Eggleston: No, I was following.

619
00:47:41.330 --> 00:47:42.940
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, no, I'm sorry.

620
00:47:42.940 --> 00:47:46.780
Tad Eggleston: I started following less because I actually

621
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:52.000
Tad Eggleston: I knew where all the pundits, all the pundits, had it dead even.

622
00:47:53.180 --> 00:47:57.600
Tad Eggleston: But there was also real things to look at in

623
00:47:58.040 --> 00:48:07.199
Tad Eggleston: Florida, North Carolina, to a lesser extent, Texas. And then that last Iowa poll. So it's like those 4 States. I'm gonna pay attention to

624
00:48:08.215 --> 00:48:09.520
Tad Eggleston: if Florida was.

625
00:48:09.520 --> 00:48:14.500
Alexandra Bowman: At 9, 30. So yeah.

626
00:48:14.500 --> 00:48:15.820
Tad Eggleston: Me a lot of nights.

627
00:48:16.340 --> 00:48:17.380
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, yeah.

628
00:48:17.380 --> 00:48:23.050
Tad Eggleston: When when Florida started coming in, and not only was it going to trump.

629
00:48:23.310 --> 00:48:27.340
Tad Eggleston: but almost across the board, it was shifting red.

630
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:29.309
Tad Eggleston: my heart sunk.

631
00:48:30.660 --> 00:48:32.259
Tad Eggleston: and I'm like.

632
00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:41.020
Tad Eggleston: And then, when North Carolina was good enough not to to elect their Black Nazi.

633
00:48:41.050 --> 00:48:44.459
Tad Eggleston: but still went to the White Nazi.

634
00:48:46.060 --> 00:48:48.640
Tad Eggleston: Right? We have problems.

635
00:48:48.640 --> 00:48:52.360
Alexandra Bowman: Right. That's confusing. I don't know what to tell you on that.

636
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:56.910
Tad Eggleston: Well, because, as it turns out, it's okay to be a Nazi. It's just not okay to be black.

637
00:48:56.910 --> 00:49:00.649
Alexandra Bowman: Right right? And then, you know, you had those additional.

638
00:49:00.650 --> 00:49:05.645
Tad Eggleston: And and anybody who knows me knows that I am not at all.

639
00:49:06.180 --> 00:49:08.490
Tad Eggleston: Don't take that out of context.

640
00:49:08.869 --> 00:49:20.259
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, gosh! I think I I saw your Instagram and the podcast. Instagram. I think that you're good, you're good. I think you've done enough to cement your position.

641
00:49:20.260 --> 00:49:22.809
Tad Eggleston: I think I think people pretty much know.

642
00:49:23.080 --> 00:49:23.450
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

643
00:49:23.450 --> 00:49:24.060
Tad Eggleston: Wow.

644
00:49:26.610 --> 00:49:28.710
Tad Eggleston: but yeah, it was an interesting night.

645
00:49:28.730 --> 00:49:30.130
Alexandra Bowman: Truly.

646
00:49:30.260 --> 00:49:37.469
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, my goodness, well, but yeah, I'm glad to share a little bit about kind of where I'm at on.

647
00:49:37.470 --> 00:49:41.099
Tad Eggleston: Well, let me. Yeah, let's let's try to go.

648
00:49:41.740 --> 00:49:45.660
Tad Eggleston: at least for a little bit like less gloom and doom.

649
00:49:46.310 --> 00:50:00.949
Tad Eggleston: Talk to talk to me first.st I mean, you're the 1st person I've talked to, I think, other than like one of my early guests who was literally in high school and and self publishing a graphic novel that he was selling at like local

650
00:50:01.930 --> 00:50:03.740
Tad Eggleston: art shows

651
00:50:03.750 --> 00:50:08.173
Tad Eggleston: like craft shows. And I'm like, Oh, I gotta talk to this kid.

652
00:50:08.490 --> 00:50:09.090
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

653
00:50:10.380 --> 00:50:11.120
Alexandra Bowman: Oh!

654
00:50:11.860 --> 00:50:16.739
Tad Eggleston: I worked as worked as a lifeguard during the summer to pay pay to self publishes.

655
00:50:16.740 --> 00:50:20.353
Alexandra Bowman: Wow! Oh, that's so admirable! My goodness.

656
00:50:20.870 --> 00:50:21.610
Tad Eggleston: Home.

657
00:50:21.610 --> 00:50:21.940
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

658
00:50:21.940 --> 00:50:24.219
Tad Eggleston: But so like.

659
00:50:24.550 --> 00:50:25.929
Tad Eggleston: take me.

660
00:50:27.500 --> 00:50:30.510
Tad Eggleston: take take me through the the Alexandra Bowman story.

661
00:50:31.510 --> 00:50:32.830
Tad Eggleston: Where'd you grow up.

662
00:50:32.830 --> 00:50:33.750
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

663
00:50:33.750 --> 00:50:41.409
Tad Eggleston: What's your attachment to to art cartoon? I mean with political cartoonists, I

664
00:50:41.950 --> 00:50:44.809
Tad Eggleston: with any cartoonists that aren't doing

665
00:50:45.730 --> 00:50:49.480
Tad Eggleston: comics, comics or or

666
00:50:51.150 --> 00:51:02.790
Tad Eggleston: strips or graphic novels. I always wonder you like. Was it the art that you were drawn to, or or are you a comic person to, you know, kind of take me through

667
00:51:03.240 --> 00:51:05.559
Tad Eggleston: you. How'd you get here?

668
00:51:05.560 --> 00:51:25.259
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah. Totally well, starting around age 5, like, because my mom always had art supplies in the house as an artist herself, I just got super interested in drawing on my own, and I had a really early interest in drawing characters from things that I loved. I just loved the idea of

669
00:51:25.260 --> 00:51:52.934
Alexandra Bowman: copying all of those lines, getting those lines to interact in such a way where they emerged as a character, or like even a consciousness on the paper like the idea that if I learned those secret methods of moving my pencil I could create life almost was awesome to me from day one and then until like aid, until honestly

670
00:51:53.480 --> 00:52:05.263
Alexandra Bowman: middle of college or no rather 1st year freshman year of college. I was just drawing mostly other people's characters like I had my own characters, but I was mostly just copying other people's stuff.

671
00:52:05.640 --> 00:52:30.130
Alexandra Bowman: And I was starting to get a little bit Antsy like. 1st of all, I'm bored. Second of all, again, I feel like I'm not really adding anything, and people don't get famous most of the time for copying other people's characters. I'm going to have to do something new. And then I was at the Georgetown newspaper as a freshman, as a writer, and the Varsity Blues thing happened.

672
00:52:30.130 --> 00:52:45.379
Alexandra Bowman: and 2 of the students whose parents had bought their way to Georgetown were about to get kicked out. There was one girl who knew. And then there was one guy who didn't know his parents did it, and I have undying sympathy for that poor kid.

673
00:52:45.380 --> 00:53:08.690
Alexandra Bowman: He was the cartoonist when I was the writer at the paper, and he left one day, and the Georgetown newspaper staff was like, we need someone who can draw. And I had been sitting in the back of the office when I was done with my articles drawing, and they went. Hey, you! Can you do it? And I started doing it, and I realized how awesome it was that if I put

674
00:53:09.610 --> 00:53:28.899
Alexandra Bowman: clothes on my donkeys and elephants I was suddenly a political cartoonist. And I. This is kind of a central thesis of the talk I gave at the Cartoon Crossroads, Columbus event. Oh, no, no! Well, they said they would publish it online. They haven't told me if that's happened yet.

675
00:53:28.900 --> 00:53:31.510
Tad Eggleston: Well, it. Probably they're slow with it.

676
00:53:31.510 --> 00:53:31.940
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

677
00:53:31.940 --> 00:53:32.440
Tad Eggleston: Well.

678
00:53:32.440 --> 00:53:57.589
Alexandra Bowman: Right. It probably is online and or will be soon. And so I realized that, okay, 1st of all, you got to be ready for unprecedented opportunities, and then, more broadly after that and other opportunities that I that I got to do work for the Lincoln project after that, and after I was building a portfolio of political cartoons, that this medium is dying, and anybody

679
00:53:58.390 --> 00:54:01.500
Alexandra Bowman: we might that might change now that, like.

680
00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:04.869
Tad Eggleston: No, I don't think it's dying, I think.

681
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:10.929
Tad Eggleston: and and I could go on a ton about this, so we won't get too deep. I think I think.

682
00:54:11.060 --> 00:54:11.810
Tad Eggleston: No.

683
00:54:12.070 --> 00:54:19.670
Tad Eggleston: there's never been a medium that's been dying longer than comics. People talked about it dying within a year or 2 of it, really starting.

684
00:54:19.670 --> 00:54:20.210
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

685
00:54:22.200 --> 00:54:24.729
Tad Eggleston: and I think that has to do with

686
00:54:24.860 --> 00:54:26.739
Tad Eggleston: comics is a medium

687
00:54:26.950 --> 00:54:32.880
Tad Eggleston: are so ephemeral, so able to adapt to

688
00:54:34.130 --> 00:54:35.580
Tad Eggleston: any platform.

689
00:54:36.620 --> 00:54:38.029
Tad Eggleston: I don't think it's

690
00:54:38.450 --> 00:54:41.949
Tad Eggleston: dying. Comics aren't going anywhere.

691
00:54:42.220 --> 00:54:45.720
Tad Eggleston: We're having to figure out again how to make any money from them.

692
00:54:47.520 --> 00:54:48.750
Tad Eggleston: But I mean, that's true

693
00:54:50.170 --> 00:54:51.010
Tad Eggleston: right. Now.

694
00:54:51.010 --> 00:54:55.540
Alexandra Bowman: I don't think comics as a whole are dying. I'm concerned about political cartoon specifically.

695
00:54:55.540 --> 00:55:02.700
Tad Eggleston: Not again. I don't think they're, you know. I mean, there will be political cartoons on Instagram that people

696
00:55:02.770 --> 00:55:08.570
Tad Eggleston: draw on their lunch breaks, working the mind numbing job that they wish that they didn't have to work.

697
00:55:08.940 --> 00:55:09.310
Alexandra Bowman: Sure.

698
00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:12.129
Alexandra Bowman: Well, let's let's zoom out a little bit.

699
00:55:12.130 --> 00:55:12.680
Tad Eggleston: Right.

700
00:55:12.680 --> 00:55:18.339
Alexandra Bowman: I think that at least in my experience I don't think that cartooning

701
00:55:18.540 --> 00:55:31.960
Alexandra Bowman: is dying is the most useful argument for how to talk about what's going on here. I think respect for political cartooning is dying, and that's having impacts on the field.

702
00:55:32.250 --> 00:55:35.419
Tad Eggleston: Think respect for anybody who works

703
00:55:35.680 --> 00:55:36.980
Tad Eggleston: for money.

704
00:55:37.850 --> 00:55:39.370
Alexandra Bowman: He's dying.

705
00:55:40.130 --> 00:55:49.120
Tad Eggleston: Somehow we reached a point where the American version of capitalism is. The only people who deserve to make money are the people who put up the capital.

706
00:55:49.570 --> 00:56:07.260
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, you can make that argument, too. But yeah, I think that we are craving 2 things simultaneously, the ability to understand and make political arguments faster and also more depth in our political arguments

707
00:56:07.260 --> 00:56:33.390
Alexandra Bowman: and political cartoons, I think, don't often provide that depth that people want so badly, and they are often used by people who want that simplification as a means of expressing an idea like, you know that 1984 meme that people use like where the guys flipping up the calendar. And it says, 1984, that was a conservative cartoonist who's on counterpoint, and I'm in a slack channel with it

708
00:56:33.814 --> 00:56:47.830
Alexandra Bowman: and that cartoon's often kind of a punchline to a lot of leftist jokes, or, you know, even mainstream jokes, and that cartoon and a lot of Ben Garrison's work, I think.

709
00:56:47.830 --> 00:56:55.339
Alexandra Bowman: are are often what stick out in people's heads when they think of political cartooning as a medium, and they think of the

710
00:56:55.450 --> 00:57:05.459
Alexandra Bowman: overt simplifications of those cartoons and others, and they think of the ideas of of a cartoon at all being used to make a serious point, and those just.

711
00:57:05.460 --> 00:57:09.669
Tad Eggleston: Whereas whereas I think I think the nib and I think

712
00:57:10.410 --> 00:57:14.500
Tad Eggleston: Jen Sordson, and I think Ben Passmore and I think

713
00:57:15.370 --> 00:57:17.389
Tad Eggleston: Tom, tomorrow and.

714
00:57:17.390 --> 00:57:17.944
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

715
00:57:19.940 --> 00:57:22.459
Tad Eggleston: so I don't. I don't know that I think that's

716
00:57:23.250 --> 00:57:30.379
Tad Eggleston: completely true. I think that there's a huge number of people that that, as you say, I mean.

717
00:57:31.840 --> 00:57:36.029
Tad Eggleston: have you ever read Neil postman's amusing ourselves to death?

718
00:57:36.030 --> 00:58:00.549
Alexandra Bowman: I have oh, and really quickly, like, I love Tom. Tomorrow's work, and I think most of the most is probably fair of the left. Leaning. Political cartoonists who are working now and in prominent positions are using a lot of that nuance that we need. But those cartoons aren't the ones that that make it to the surface, where people who aren't already looking for cartoons

719
00:58:00.640 --> 00:58:04.297
Alexandra Bowman: are. don't often see them

720
00:58:04.820 --> 00:58:05.350
Tad Eggleston: That's right.

721
00:58:05.350 --> 00:58:16.460
Alexandra Bowman: The Ben garrison. Overlabeled joke. Cartoons are what people see. The guy who does cartoons for the onion makes fun of those. Specifically, it's like those

722
00:58:16.550 --> 00:58:29.520
Alexandra Bowman: are often what comprise our understanding of what a political cartoonist? That doesn't mean there aren't people doing fantastic work now, just their work is so smart and so well researched that it doesn't.

723
00:58:29.520 --> 00:58:33.335
Tad Eggleston: You mean, like the historical political cartoons.

724
00:58:33.880 --> 00:58:34.300
Alexandra Bowman: Bye.

725
00:58:34.790 --> 00:58:35.320
Alexandra Bowman: right.

726
00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:38.190
Tad Eggleston: Because that that was that was my I mean

727
00:58:38.260 --> 00:58:45.000
Tad Eggleston: political and the the beauty of good political cartoons. The the reason I'm so proud of of

728
00:58:45.300 --> 00:58:50.630
Tad Eggleston: the history department at the High school I work with for the fact that they use so many of them in teaching.

729
00:58:50.770 --> 00:58:51.430
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

730
00:58:51.828 --> 00:58:54.219
Tad Eggleston: Right is that you can take

731
00:58:55.040 --> 00:58:57.070
Tad Eggleston: a political cartoon

732
00:58:58.250 --> 00:58:59.550
Tad Eggleston: and

733
00:59:01.760 --> 00:59:04.019
Tad Eggleston: put so many ideas into it.

734
00:59:04.020 --> 00:59:05.819
Alexandra Bowman: Right. It's true.

735
00:59:06.120 --> 00:59:07.720
Tad Eggleston: I mean, you can

736
00:59:08.270 --> 00:59:16.889
Tad Eggleston: get that extra layers and layers of information that's still in a quickly. I mean, that's the beauty of comics in general.

737
00:59:18.740 --> 00:59:30.509
Tad Eggleston: I mean I I right before we were on I I have a I'm in a weekly movie group with my family, where we all watch a movie together, and then we talk about it for an hour.

738
00:59:30.510 --> 00:59:31.195
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

739
00:59:32.800 --> 00:59:39.184
Tad Eggleston: Or we watch. We watch the movie individually because we live all over the country, and then we talk about it for an hour.

740
00:59:40.564 --> 00:59:41.679
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

741
00:59:41.680 --> 00:59:49.410
Tad Eggleston: And we watched the Gregory Peck Moby Dick this this week. And and one of the things that I brought up is that

742
00:59:49.540 --> 00:59:53.390
Tad Eggleston: as brilliant of a movie as it is it it

743
00:59:54.210 --> 00:59:57.710
Tad Eggleston: it misses the mark on one of my favorite parts of

744
00:59:58.650 --> 01:00:00.540
Tad Eggleston: the book, which is that

745
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:04.900
Tad Eggleston: feeling of

746
01:00:07.240 --> 01:00:18.090
Tad Eggleston: hurry up and wait, that that feeling of desolation and loneliness that was it. That's in between the points of action. And yes, there are things that

747
01:00:19.510 --> 01:00:25.380
Tad Eggleston: hint at the monotony, but just because of the medium you can't like really

748
01:00:25.690 --> 01:00:27.609
Tad Eggleston: feel the monotony.

749
01:00:27.730 --> 01:00:31.839
Tad Eggleston: whereas Moby Dick's been adapted to comics a number of times.

750
01:00:33.270 --> 01:00:34.150
Tad Eggleston: and

751
01:00:35.050 --> 01:00:36.669
Tad Eggleston: and most of them

752
01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:39.800
Tad Eggleston: they managed to capture that in some

753
01:00:39.900 --> 01:00:45.950
Tad Eggleston: they captured as well, or I mean my my favorite version of of Moby Dick, including the the

754
01:00:47.960 --> 01:00:52.409
Tad Eggleston: the original novel is actually Christoph Shabouti's

755
01:00:52.750 --> 01:00:54.930
Tad Eggleston: adaptation, because

756
01:00:56.560 --> 01:01:05.840
Tad Eggleston: the way he manage and I actually pulled up a couple of pages. I'll even just share them with you here, so that at least you'll know what I'm talking about.

757
01:01:06.060 --> 01:01:08.890
Tad Eggleston: Blah! Blah! Where's my share screen thing?

758
01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:12.910
Tad Eggleston: I have so many things up that that I have to find the buttons.

759
01:01:16.360 --> 01:01:17.709
Tad Eggleston: but the way

760
01:01:18.260 --> 01:01:20.100
Tad Eggleston: he wordlessly

761
01:01:22.040 --> 01:01:26.260
Tad Eggleston: just gives you that feeling of time passing.

762
01:01:27.590 --> 01:01:28.740
Alexandra Bowman: It's beautiful.

763
01:01:28.740 --> 01:01:30.139
Tad Eggleston: Things, happening.

764
01:01:30.140 --> 01:01:30.980
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

765
01:01:32.180 --> 01:01:37.409
Tad Eggleston: There's so many things you can do with a comic that you just can't.

766
01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:38.970
Tad Eggleston: I mean the

767
01:01:39.410 --> 01:01:54.099
Tad Eggleston: and you know political cartoon is only one part of. But that's 1 of the reasons this podcast exists is that I feel like the medium of comic is comics is criminally underrated.

768
01:01:55.690 --> 01:02:19.509
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, agreed. And it can do so much like that. I think that simplification is something that we desperately need to reach people at all. Just need to make sure we're simplifying the right things, and we're doing it responsibly. And once we do that, then we can use this medium for such good. I worry that a lot of cartoons are either. I mean.

769
01:02:19.570 --> 01:02:32.990
Alexandra Bowman: this is where I got to say I gotta say not just because I got to press the button, but also because of my I don't. I do not want to waltz in here as a brand new cartoonist and tell people they're doing it wrong. I don't want to do

770
01:02:33.874 --> 01:02:57.940
Alexandra Bowman: but I'm worried that a lot of cartoons going out now are making the same arguments repeatedly, or preaching to the choir or not making arguments in a way that is persuasive enough to new audiences, and often they're not aiming for the new audiences. But what is the point of this medium simplification? And to get people's attention on new issues? That's the point. And if we're not using that tool

771
01:02:57.960 --> 01:03:07.349
Alexandra Bowman: to do the work we desperately need to do to bring over moderates and even Republicans to be consistent voters against trump. Then I think we're

772
01:03:07.420 --> 01:03:08.829
Alexandra Bowman: we're we're not

773
01:03:08.890 --> 01:03:11.230
Alexandra Bowman: being responsible. We just.

774
01:03:11.230 --> 01:03:14.070
Tad Eggleston: Well, and while I, 100% agree with you.

775
01:03:14.460 --> 01:03:15.800
Tad Eggleston: oh, yeah.

776
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:19.849
Tad Eggleston: this is this is where you know. You ask the 1 million dollar question.

777
01:03:20.830 --> 01:03:21.670
Tad Eggleston: how.

778
01:03:23.156 --> 01:03:28.210
Alexandra Bowman: I don't want to come out here and claim I'm doing it right. But I think, starting with a

779
01:03:28.270 --> 01:03:42.369
Alexandra Bowman: complex, unique, arguable thesis is key. Trump is orange. Trump is mean. Trump is a fascist refuses to elaborate further is not enough. We need to.

780
01:03:42.370 --> 01:03:46.869
Tad Eggleston: We're clearly reading a lot of very different political cartoons.

781
01:03:47.133 --> 01:03:47.660
Alexandra Bowman: Maybe I.

782
01:03:47.660 --> 01:03:52.139
Tad Eggleston: I just already have my political cartoons carefully curated.

783
01:03:53.110 --> 01:03:56.650
Tad Eggleston: but those aren't the ones that I see.

784
01:03:56.650 --> 01:03:57.876
Alexandra Bowman: Okay, right?

785
01:03:59.305 --> 01:04:01.440
Alexandra Bowman: Biden is old. It's like, Okay.

786
01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:07.200
Tad Eggleston: Well. And and this is this is this goes back to the discussion that we had a little bit off air.

787
01:04:09.140 --> 01:04:26.890
Tad Eggleston: I think, because comics is a medium that lends itself to thought and and somewhat requires thought. I mean comics is the only medium that takes both sides of your brain. You have to merge the words and the pictures you have to think about it.

788
01:04:27.800 --> 01:04:28.830
Tad Eggleston: Oh.

789
01:04:31.930 --> 01:04:34.119
Tad Eggleston: it makes it a lot harder

790
01:04:34.150 --> 01:04:35.290
Tad Eggleston: 2

791
01:04:37.400 --> 01:04:39.560
Tad Eggleston: convincingly.

792
01:04:46.100 --> 01:04:47.860
Tad Eggleston: subvert reality

793
01:04:48.910 --> 01:04:55.977
Tad Eggleston: if that makes sense and I don't. I don't mean that you can't do fiction. You can do great fiction, but but, like, you know, it's fiction.

794
01:04:57.080 --> 01:04:57.940
Tad Eggleston: Cheers.

795
01:04:57.940 --> 01:04:58.580
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

796
01:04:59.400 --> 01:04:59.750
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

797
01:04:59.750 --> 01:05:10.619
Tad Eggleston: If you're trying to, you know, I don't think you could spend much time, I mean, and I I have only just started being exposed to. I mean, I

798
01:05:11.220 --> 01:05:24.240
Tad Eggleston: I had thought that that political cartoons were one of the places where where the whole concept of a left wing media came from and God. It's not a left wing media, but it is a

799
01:05:25.480 --> 01:05:31.760
Tad Eggleston: the mainstream and or legacy. Media, whatever we want to call it is, is concerned in not

800
01:05:31.860 --> 01:05:33.760
Tad Eggleston: misstating facts.

801
01:05:35.040 --> 01:05:52.999
Alexandra Bowman: Right. Well, I'm concerned that some kinds of simplification can be considered, or ultimately act as misstatements. Like to say, for example, let me think of an example. Can I do it? And full disclosure? I have been meeting with clients since 4 Pm. So I.

802
01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:53.630
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that's fair.

803
01:05:53.630 --> 01:05:56.630
Alexandra Bowman: I have been talking since 4 PM. Today. It is.

804
01:05:56.630 --> 01:05:57.330
Tad Eggleston: Sorry.

805
01:05:57.330 --> 01:05:58.650
Alexandra Bowman: No, this is.

806
01:05:58.650 --> 01:06:00.380
Tad Eggleston: More interesting than some of those.

807
01:06:00.380 --> 01:06:07.249
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, oh, it was! Believe me, it was and that's not a that. I chose this so.

808
01:06:07.250 --> 01:06:07.719
Tad Eggleston: Right, right.

809
01:06:07.720 --> 01:06:19.229
Alexandra Bowman: I told you this time worked, and I I it is. But I apologize. Yeah, a good way. What's a simplification that I think would be ultimately doing this. Let's see.

810
01:06:19.230 --> 01:06:22.889
Tad Eggleston: Because again, I mean while you're thinking, I I've been seeing plenty of

811
01:06:23.250 --> 01:06:26.459
Tad Eggleston: like huge simplifications in the right wing

812
01:06:27.020 --> 01:06:34.162
Tad Eggleston: cartoons that I've seen because of because of stuff that you've pointed out to me. So it hadn't been on my radar before then.

813
01:06:34.460 --> 01:06:35.189
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

814
01:06:35.190 --> 01:06:38.080
Tad Eggleston: But like they're obvious simplifications.

815
01:06:38.080 --> 01:07:01.709
Alexandra Bowman: Right. Well, I mean, I was actually. The reason I was struggling just now is that I was trying to think of a simplification in left wing cartoons. Let's start with the easy stuff. Let's start with the right wing over over generalizations. There's been a lot of cartoons going out from conservative cartoonists I've been following who have focused on saying, Kamala Harris is incompetent. You can say that

816
01:07:01.710 --> 01:07:12.480
Alexandra Bowman: somebody did something that suggested they weren't qualified. I don't. I'm just even backing up from Kamala Harris. Just you can say of somebody

817
01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:33.849
Alexandra Bowman: that they did something incompetently, or even they did something that suggests that they might not be qualified for the job. That is different from saying someone is incompetent. It's kind of like when someone name calls and said, You're an idiot. What they might mean is, you did something stupid.

818
01:07:33.850 --> 01:07:34.590
Tad Eggleston: It a step.

819
01:07:34.590 --> 01:07:35.150
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

820
01:07:35.150 --> 01:07:42.120
Tad Eggleston: Beyond that. Because I that's 1 of the the biggest parts of the campaign that really frustrated me is like.

821
01:07:42.370 --> 01:07:43.200
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

822
01:07:44.200 --> 01:07:57.490
Tad Eggleston: Elected da in San Francisco twice, once in the State of California, elected to Senate, served well in all of those jobs. Nobody, you know she only got more people to vote for, so she's been elected

823
01:07:58.440 --> 01:08:00.240
Tad Eggleston: way more times.

824
01:08:00.420 --> 01:08:01.040
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

825
01:08:01.040 --> 01:08:02.680
Tad Eggleston: And the guy she was running against.

826
01:08:03.520 --> 01:08:05.780
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

827
01:08:05.780 --> 01:08:12.199
Tad Eggleston: So to say, that she's incompetent without being able to cite an example of her incompetence.

828
01:08:12.200 --> 01:08:12.540
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

829
01:08:12.540 --> 01:08:13.669
Tad Eggleston: Away the game.

830
01:08:14.150 --> 01:08:14.540
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

831
01:08:14.540 --> 01:08:16.909
Tad Eggleston: And and therefore to

832
01:08:17.890 --> 01:08:19.089
Tad Eggleston: to write it

833
01:08:19.160 --> 01:08:23.420
Tad Eggleston: cartoon, where you say that she's incompetent.

834
01:08:24.470 --> 01:08:26.209
Tad Eggleston: But I mean like.

835
01:08:26.330 --> 01:08:27.130
Tad Eggleston: if

836
01:08:27.290 --> 01:08:30.870
Tad Eggleston: if you wanted to make a a cartoon calling

837
01:08:30.880 --> 01:08:32.810
Tad Eggleston: Donald trump incompetent!

838
01:08:33.069 --> 01:08:37.800
Tad Eggleston: You could highlight his bankruptcies, you could highlight bleach.

839
01:08:37.859 --> 01:08:42.990
Tad Eggleston: you could highlight, so you know, it wouldn't just be. Oh, he's incompetent.

840
01:08:42.990 --> 01:08:43.545
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

841
01:08:44.109 --> 01:08:48.949
Tad Eggleston: It would be him doing something incompetent.

842
01:08:50.200 --> 01:08:50.950
Alexandra Bowman: Right?

843
01:08:51.220 --> 01:08:56.960
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Exactly right. They right. You'd have. Actually, you'd actually have evidence to pull from.

844
01:08:56.960 --> 01:08:57.350
Tad Eggleston: I'm busy.

845
01:08:57.359 --> 01:08:58.909
Alexandra Bowman: Your claim? Exactly.

846
01:08:58.910 --> 01:09:00.289
Tad Eggleston: And you would use it.

847
01:09:01.090 --> 01:09:03.530
Tad Eggleston: I mean, maybe they're left wing

848
01:09:03.700 --> 01:09:09.919
Tad Eggleston: cartoons that don't use it. But I haven't come. I mean even the ones that are mostly trump dumb old

849
01:09:09.930 --> 01:09:12.790
Tad Eggleston: are also directly quoting him

850
01:09:12.810 --> 01:09:14.910
Tad Eggleston: to show that he's dumb.

851
01:09:14.910 --> 01:09:16.389
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right?

852
01:09:16.720 --> 01:09:24.600
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? Right? Right? And you know. So those aren't saying anything incorrectly, and they're but they think they're oversimplifying the issue.

853
01:09:24.600 --> 01:09:25.580
Tad Eggleston: Maybe.

854
01:09:25.580 --> 01:09:27.910
Alexandra Bowman: But it also depends on I.

855
01:09:27.910 --> 01:09:28.420
Tad Eggleston: Doesn't work.

856
01:09:28.420 --> 01:09:28.740
Alexandra Bowman: Oh!

857
01:09:28.740 --> 01:09:29.469
Tad Eggleston: They use.

858
01:09:29.470 --> 01:09:42.819
Alexandra Bowman: Whether or not a cartoon is simplifying. The issue, I think, also comes down to what audience it's intended for, like trump is old. Thus he should not be elected, might be enough to grab the minds and attention of some people.

859
01:09:42.819 --> 01:10:00.710
Alexandra Bowman: but not other people, and some simplifications are going to be effective and some aren't. So I think we should just be sure that as we're simplifying things in political cartoons, we're making new and different simplifications to try to loop in as many allies as possible.

860
01:10:00.710 --> 01:10:04.049
Tad Eggleston: Think that that trying to simplify is probably

861
01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:06.820
Tad Eggleston: clarify.

862
01:10:08.220 --> 01:10:10.740
Tad Eggleston: seek clarity more than simplicity.

863
01:10:11.670 --> 01:10:12.859
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

864
01:10:12.860 --> 01:10:16.279
Tad Eggleston: People shouldn't have to work hard to figure out what you're saying.

865
01:10:16.280 --> 01:10:17.920
Alexandra Bowman: Agreed. But that doesn't mean.

866
01:10:17.920 --> 01:10:19.779
Tad Eggleston: Has to be a simple message.

867
01:10:20.140 --> 01:10:35.599
Alexandra Bowman: Right, exactly right. And that's what I'm trying to trying to hit on with that thesis thing like, if I can come up with an argument I believe in that feels unique and worth dying on to me. Then I can probably find.

868
01:10:35.600 --> 01:10:45.909
Tad Eggleston: No, I mean, that's that's not new. I mean, when when we're using political cartoons to teach, that's literally the 1st question we ask the student. What's the thesis of this cartoon?

869
01:10:45.910 --> 01:10:48.695
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right, right, right, right, exactly.

870
01:10:49.160 --> 01:10:52.289
Tad Eggleston: Can't identify it pretty quickly. Then they didn't do a very good job.

871
01:10:52.490 --> 01:10:54.890
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right, so, yeah.

872
01:10:54.890 --> 01:10:58.829
Tad Eggleston: And if you identify it, and then you can't go any further. They also.

873
01:10:59.850 --> 01:11:01.870
Tad Eggleston: you know, I mean.

874
01:11:03.700 --> 01:11:09.670
Tad Eggleston: they say a picture is worth a thousand words, and there's truth to that, but only if you can figure out what those 1,000 words are.

875
01:11:11.320 --> 01:11:26.170
Alexandra Bowman: Right, exactly right, right. And I worry that. You know I don't. I don't really want to be. I don't want to run the risk of telling colleagues who've been in this for decades more than me, and have won awards what to do. But I'm worried about new

876
01:11:26.510 --> 01:11:36.700
Alexandra Bowman: young cartoonists, of which there are almost none. So I'll say, new young humorists or political humorists, where I think they're not thinking about this stuff.

877
01:11:37.074 --> 01:12:04.140
Alexandra Bowman: And like, I'll just say like I. I went to a Seth Meyers taping several years ago, and I asked him to what degree are in the in the Q. And a in front of everybody. I was like, to what degree are you thinking about the impact of your work, or what to what degree are you doing? A lot of research on your argument towards the end of thinking about impact. And he said, we're really not thinking about that. We're thinking about what's funny. So

878
01:12:04.850 --> 01:12:15.769
Alexandra Bowman: of course we I can't tell the shows not to be funny. 100%. But I'm not sure the humor is doing as much for our country in this time of need right now.

879
01:12:15.770 --> 01:12:16.190
Tad Eggleston: Maybe.

880
01:12:16.633 --> 01:12:21.960
Alexandra Bowman: As well. Researched arguments would be doing. And they're already doing arguments.

881
01:12:21.960 --> 01:12:23.660
Tad Eggleston: But I guess I guess.

882
01:12:23.660 --> 01:12:28.640
Alexandra Bowman: Shows already aren't funny. So go and and write a manifesto.

883
01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:31.080
Tad Eggleston: This is my counterpoint to you is

884
01:12:33.070 --> 01:12:37.459
Tad Eggleston: when it comes to to Seth Meyers or Jon Stewart or Whatnot.

885
01:12:38.140 --> 01:12:47.059
Tad Eggleston: Yes, they're only thinking about funny, because that's what they're paid for, and that's what their audience came from. But but what you also see that's different about them

886
01:12:47.470 --> 01:12:49.240
Tad Eggleston: from even

887
01:12:49.350 --> 01:12:50.890
Tad Eggleston: a Jay Leno.

888
01:12:51.220 --> 01:12:53.930
Tad Eggleston: or at times Johnny Carson.

889
01:12:57.140 --> 01:12:58.530
Tad Eggleston: certainly

890
01:12:58.580 --> 01:13:07.159
Tad Eggleston: some other people who are currently doing stuff that I won't even name, because I'm so frustrated with them because they used to do good work and don't anymore.

891
01:13:09.830 --> 01:13:11.400
Tad Eggleston: is, they won't

892
01:13:11.610 --> 01:13:13.220
Tad Eggleston: sacrifice

893
01:13:17.770 --> 01:13:19.240
Tad Eggleston: their morals.

894
01:13:20.640 --> 01:13:22.879
Tad Eggleston: Seth Meyers knows who he is.

895
01:13:23.900 --> 01:13:29.349
Tad Eggleston: and he's not gonna stop being Seth Meyers to try to be funny or to get a different audience to laugh

896
01:13:29.800 --> 01:13:31.450
Tad Eggleston: if you won't laugh

897
01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:33.709
Tad Eggleston: at what he thinks is funny.

898
01:13:34.520 --> 01:13:39.799
Tad Eggleston: If he has to be mean. If he has to ignore reality.

899
01:13:41.830 --> 01:13:43.260
Tad Eggleston: then he's not going to do it.

900
01:13:44.050 --> 01:13:44.690
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

901
01:13:45.180 --> 01:13:52.080
Alexandra Bowman: Snl. Did a great cold open this last weekend, where they expressed their fears on some of those questions.

902
01:13:52.080 --> 01:13:54.830
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, it was fantastic.

903
01:13:55.120 --> 01:13:58.110
Tad Eggleston: you know all, all of them, all of them.

904
01:13:58.350 --> 01:14:01.250
Tad Eggleston: We were behind you all.

905
01:14:02.230 --> 01:14:03.209
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

906
01:14:04.190 --> 01:14:05.100
Tad Eggleston: And che.

907
01:14:05.100 --> 01:14:05.910
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

908
01:14:05.910 --> 01:14:07.330
Tad Eggleston: THE.

909
01:14:07.330 --> 01:14:11.315
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, right? Exactly. Right? Exactly.

910
01:14:11.980 --> 01:14:15.119
Tad Eggleston: No, it still doesn't beat the

911
01:14:16.220 --> 01:14:18.329
Tad Eggleston: the 2016 cold open

912
01:14:20.400 --> 01:14:21.289
Tad Eggleston: killed it.

913
01:14:21.600 --> 01:14:22.390
Tad Eggleston: Kate Mckinney

914
01:14:22.710 --> 01:14:23.490
Tad Eggleston: piano.

915
01:14:23.860 --> 01:14:28.290
Alexandra Bowman: Right. A lot of people retroactively have thought that was cringe. But I think that's because they were.

916
01:14:28.290 --> 01:14:28.740
Tad Eggleston: No.

917
01:14:28.740 --> 01:14:29.790
Alexandra Bowman: They weren't watching it at.

918
01:14:29.790 --> 01:14:30.589
Tad Eggleston: They weren't there.

919
01:14:30.590 --> 01:14:43.220
Alexandra Bowman: We all I will. I won't generalize. That was therapeutic and needed and wonderful for many, many people, and that's what I'm talking about in terms of don't criticize humor too much.

920
01:14:43.220 --> 01:14:48.584
Tad Eggleston: I think that and I'm not saying there aren't things out there that are cringe. But

921
01:14:49.070 --> 01:14:53.669
Tad Eggleston: I think for the most part, people who feel the need to talk about things being cringe.

922
01:14:56.840 --> 01:14:57.879
Tad Eggleston: Don't get it.

923
01:14:58.610 --> 01:15:01.068
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, right? They're missing the the plot.

924
01:15:01.420 --> 01:15:06.230
Tad Eggleston: You know one of the arguments that I I've even wound up, having a couple of times

925
01:15:07.330 --> 01:15:10.189
Tad Eggleston: thankfully, only a couple of times in my time

926
01:15:10.860 --> 01:15:13.035
Tad Eggleston: doing a comics podcast

927
01:15:15.060 --> 01:15:22.590
Tad Eggleston: in general. It's something that I think has endeared me to the comics community. We don't like to spend time talking about art that we don't like.

928
01:15:24.330 --> 01:15:27.660
Tad Eggleston: We don't like. If we don't like a comic, we're just not gonna talk about it.

929
01:15:28.680 --> 01:15:30.610
Tad Eggleston: I don't need to say something's bad.

930
01:15:31.410 --> 01:15:32.590
Tad Eggleston: Why.

931
01:15:32.910 --> 01:15:47.569
Alexandra Bowman: Right. Well, it's well, like I was a. I'm a theater critic, and I've taken a short break in my move to New York. But I'm in talks to continue doing work here like my job is to critic to criticize. You know this.

932
01:15:47.570 --> 01:15:48.240
Tad Eggleston: Right.

933
01:15:48.240 --> 01:16:08.780
Alexandra Bowman: But my goal, and at least in my work so far. And maybe this is not what a critic should be doing. But my goal has been as a fellow artist to say, Okay, artists. Here's the results of your labor and the results of the combinations of creative and artistic elements of production pieces you've chosen.

934
01:16:08.780 --> 01:16:09.290
Tad Eggleston: Right.

935
01:16:09.290 --> 01:16:15.079
Alexandra Bowman: I'm not sure you intended for this, or this doesn't seem close to your desired outcome.

936
01:16:15.450 --> 01:16:18.860
Alexandra Bowman: Here's something you could fix, you know. That that's.

937
01:16:18.860 --> 01:16:19.610
Tad Eggleston: And that's.

938
01:16:19.610 --> 01:16:20.750
Alexandra Bowman: Trying to do.

939
01:16:20.750 --> 01:16:22.390
Tad Eggleston: That's different. That's I mean.

940
01:16:22.390 --> 01:16:22.740
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

941
01:16:22.740 --> 01:16:37.800
Tad Eggleston: It's not. It's not that. I'll never say anything bad about a comic. It's not that I'll never say anything could be better. There have even been times where we book clubbed something that we wound up thinking was worth talking about, even though we didn't like it as much as we'd hoped to

942
01:16:38.330 --> 01:16:39.380
Tad Eggleston: right.

943
01:16:40.610 --> 01:16:41.560
Tad Eggleston: but

944
01:16:42.590 --> 01:16:43.580
Tad Eggleston: like

945
01:16:45.490 --> 01:16:50.109
Tad Eggleston: there are hundreds of comics come out every week. I don't have time to talk about every one of them.

946
01:16:50.190 --> 01:16:53.900
Tad Eggleston: So why would I talk about the ones that I don't like.

947
01:16:53.980 --> 01:16:57.119
Tad Eggleston: rather than talking about the ones that I do.

948
01:16:57.510 --> 01:16:58.930
Alexandra Bowman: Right, exactly.

949
01:16:58.930 --> 01:17:03.359
Tad Eggleston: It's a different thing if you're paid to critique a specific thing.

950
01:17:03.950 --> 01:17:08.570
Tad Eggleston: you know, if you get sent out to cover this play, that's a journalism assignment.

951
01:17:09.160 --> 01:17:12.289
Tad Eggleston: and you got to do the best to be fair and whatnot. But.

952
01:17:12.290 --> 01:17:12.610
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

953
01:17:12.610 --> 01:17:14.229
Tad Eggleston: I'm my own boss.

954
01:17:14.230 --> 01:17:15.865
Alexandra Bowman: Right, awesome.

955
01:17:16.410 --> 01:17:32.420
Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean, we even I, was talking about this recently, and I won't name any names, because there might be people who love it. One of my favorite. I don't know how much you know the the non-political cartooning community, but but Brian Michael Bendis, who created Miles Morales and.

956
01:17:32.420 --> 01:17:33.779
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, wow! Okay.

957
01:17:34.270 --> 01:17:36.160
Tad Eggleston: Major name in

958
01:17:36.790 --> 01:17:39.129
Tad Eggleston: superhero comics over the last.

959
01:17:39.310 --> 01:17:43.030
Tad Eggleston: Well, your entire life over your entire life.

960
01:17:44.670 --> 01:17:45.650
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right, right.

961
01:17:45.650 --> 01:17:49.930
Tad Eggleston: Seriously. My daughter's a year older than you. My son's only a couple of years younger than you, so.

962
01:17:49.930 --> 01:17:53.520
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, my, gosh! Oh, yeah, that's wacky. Yeah, yeah, totally.

963
01:17:53.520 --> 01:17:56.619
Tad Eggleston: So I'm trying not to like, go, oh.

964
01:17:59.250 --> 01:17:59.815
Tad Eggleston: students.

965
01:18:00.722 --> 01:18:02.089
Alexandra Bowman: No, no, no, no.

966
01:18:02.090 --> 01:18:03.740
Tad Eggleston: High school, remember

967
01:18:06.675 --> 01:18:07.510
Tad Eggleston: right?

968
01:18:07.760 --> 01:18:08.405
Tad Eggleston: But

969
01:18:10.370 --> 01:18:13.719
Tad Eggleston: he, the one question he will never answer

970
01:18:14.330 --> 01:18:18.360
Tad Eggleston: is like, what's his least favorite comic that he's written.

971
01:18:18.670 --> 01:18:30.660
Tad Eggleston: or what comics of his does he not like or whatnot? Because he's like, yeah, you know, even if I didn't like it, even if I don't feel proud of it. There's some kid out there that it's their favorite book.

972
01:18:31.430 --> 01:18:33.270
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Well, yeah, I.

973
01:18:33.270 --> 01:18:36.050
Tad Eggleston: If they hear me shitting on it.

974
01:18:36.050 --> 01:18:38.190
Alexandra Bowman: So Hi, Kitty, Kitty's in the camera.

975
01:18:38.190 --> 01:18:38.980
Tad Eggleston: Yes, he is.

976
01:18:39.920 --> 01:18:42.910
Tad Eggleston: He actually knocked the camera down during

977
01:18:43.680 --> 01:18:46.680
Tad Eggleston: my my movie club with family. So.

978
01:18:46.680 --> 01:18:47.190
Alexandra Bowman: For a second.

979
01:18:47.190 --> 01:18:49.499
Tad Eggleston: I was concerned that he was, gonna

980
01:18:49.940 --> 01:18:51.939
Tad Eggleston: couldn't be a brat again.

981
01:18:51.940 --> 01:19:11.689
Alexandra Bowman: Right. Well, I think if you're critiquing something for the good of the medium or the good of the artist, there's real value in that. But many, many people who think that they're doing that are doing a bad job of doing their criticism for that purpose. And yeah, yeah.

982
01:19:11.690 --> 01:19:15.669
Tad Eggleston: I think there's a huge difference between between critiquing

983
01:19:15.680 --> 01:19:20.739
Tad Eggleston: and criticizing, and totally, and I also think that

984
01:19:21.500 --> 01:19:23.639
Tad Eggleston: critiquing is done better

985
01:19:24.560 --> 01:19:27.119
Tad Eggleston: by people who like it on some level.

986
01:19:29.714 --> 01:19:33.940
Tad Eggleston: I used to get in so much trouble in every creative writers

987
01:19:34.470 --> 01:19:36.620
Tad Eggleston: creative writing class I was ever in.

988
01:19:36.720 --> 01:19:38.030
Tad Eggleston: because

989
01:19:38.080 --> 01:19:49.610
Tad Eggleston: I could be brutal on stories I wound up having to either give a speech or write a letter to every creative writing class I've ever been a part of to say, Hey! The more I tear it apart, the more I liked it.

990
01:19:50.320 --> 01:19:54.379
Tad Eggleston: If I don't like it, I'm going to say good story and nothing else.

991
01:19:56.590 --> 01:19:57.950
Alexandra Bowman: Right and.

992
01:19:57.950 --> 01:20:04.410
Tad Eggleston: Tearing it apart. It's because I see kernels of brilliance that I want to help you make even better.

993
01:20:04.620 --> 01:20:33.739
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? Yeah. Well, you know, at the publication where I've been doing the theater criticism for the last 3 years. There's a form, there's a format, a formula, a template that I've had to use, and my editor has been very kind in letting me push the bill on what counts as an article that follows that template. But the template is like 80% positive. One paragraph of criticism at the end.

994
01:20:33.740 --> 01:21:01.080
Alexandra Bowman: and it's extremely annoying to have to adjust my real opinions to that formula. Eventually I simply stopped doing it. And then my editor, just let me continue so. That's nice of him. But having to start by my work as doing that theater criticism, little criticism doing that formula has actually really helped me kind of start with and remind myself of my goal in being a critic. In the 1st place, which is.

995
01:21:01.120 --> 01:21:27.030
Alexandra Bowman: why are we here? Why are we doing the art at all? Why am I talking about the art at all? It's to help this artist improve and show other artists how they can improve or compliment an artist on something done well, so that again they can continue making artwork and spreading joy and fulfillment. You know that that is the point, and forcing yourself to be a little bit more positive than you might mean to be. If you're somebody who tends to gravitate toward criticism might be a good foundation.

996
01:21:27.240 --> 01:21:28.230
Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely

997
01:21:30.370 --> 01:21:31.780
Tad Eggleston: I have been

998
01:21:33.504 --> 01:21:39.159
Tad Eggleston: very, very happily going through all of your stickers on your red bubble show.

999
01:21:39.160 --> 01:21:41.779
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, my goodness, I haven't updated that in years.

1000
01:21:42.070 --> 01:21:51.310
Tad Eggleston: Well, well, I just noticed something that like caught my attention. Did you really start your red bubble show when Red Bubble Store.

1001
01:21:51.320 --> 01:21:53.419
Tad Eggleston: when you were 15.

1002
01:21:53.420 --> 01:21:54.233
Alexandra Bowman: I did.

1003
01:21:55.170 --> 01:21:56.230
Tad Eggleston: I did.

1004
01:21:56.230 --> 01:22:02.339
Alexandra Bowman: I did. I did. I put my doctor who stuff on there, and the how to train your dragon stuff on there? Yeah.

1005
01:22:02.340 --> 01:22:07.549
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I did. I like your doctor who? Scrooge Mcduck.

1006
01:22:08.030 --> 01:22:18.860
Alexandra Bowman: Thank you. Oh, it's not the one that's on the site. But I drew the 10th doctor meeting Scrooge Mcduck, and I gave David Tennant the original.

1007
01:22:18.860 --> 01:22:19.750
Tad Eggleston: Oh, very cool.

1008
01:22:19.750 --> 01:22:23.640
Alexandra Bowman: And he said, seeing it was, quote the pinnacle of all his work.

1009
01:22:24.530 --> 01:22:36.699
Alexandra Bowman: So I don't know if he meant the drawing was super good, and seeing a super good drawing of it was the pinnacle of his work, or if just seeing them together in any image, was the pinnacle of his work.

1010
01:22:36.700 --> 01:22:43.560
Tad Eggleston: See, I just suddenly remembered that that he is now the voice of the current. Scrooge.

1011
01:22:43.830 --> 01:22:44.480
Alexandra Bowman: He is.

1012
01:22:44.976 --> 01:22:45.970
Tad Eggleston: Much more

1013
01:22:46.500 --> 01:22:48.170
Tad Eggleston: Barksian

1014
01:22:49.715 --> 01:22:55.204
Tad Eggleston: influence on your scourge both there, and I'm trying to find. Yep you did a

1015
01:22:56.902 --> 01:22:58.590
Tad Eggleston: One of your

1016
01:22:58.750 --> 01:23:02.370
Tad Eggleston: cartoons at Georgetown was was

1017
01:23:02.540 --> 01:23:05.020
Tad Eggleston: Scrooge giving money to Notre Dame.

1018
01:23:05.400 --> 01:23:10.099
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, that! Oh, my gosh! Where was that one? Did I put that one on my portfolio website?

1019
01:23:11.150 --> 01:23:12.120
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah. Yeah.

1020
01:23:12.660 --> 01:23:14.530
Alexandra Bowman: One of my favorites I did at Georgetown.

1021
01:23:14.530 --> 01:23:15.920
Tad Eggleston: That's fantastic.

1022
01:23:15.920 --> 01:23:17.129
Alexandra Bowman: Thank you. Thank you.

1023
01:23:17.130 --> 01:23:17.960
Tad Eggleston: Well, I.

1024
01:23:17.960 --> 01:23:19.030
Alexandra Bowman: No actually caught.

1025
01:23:19.030 --> 01:23:32.610
Tad Eggleston: Carl Barks is one of my favorite cartoonists. Yeah. And I and I grew up on ducktales before I realized that Karl Barks was one of my favorite cartoonists, and, as it turns out, one of my favorite writers, because pretty much all of the original Ducktales

1026
01:23:32.930 --> 01:23:36.129
Tad Eggleston: came straight from Old Crow darks.

1027
01:23:36.130 --> 01:23:37.969
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, my! Gosh! There you go, right

1028
01:23:39.480 --> 01:23:40.160
Alexandra Bowman: right.

1029
01:23:40.160 --> 01:23:47.949
Tad Eggleston: Go pick up the fanagraphics, Hardcovers, and and you'll you'll feel like you're watching ducktales sometimes, only sometimes it's even better right.

1030
01:23:47.950 --> 01:24:03.998
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? Yeah. I I my 1st Carl barks comic. I actually picked up in Germany on a family trip. Where it was like a Christmas treasury of Donald Duck and Scrooge cartoons all in

1031
01:24:04.410 --> 01:24:04.990
Tad Eggleston: Nice.

1032
01:24:04.990 --> 01:24:18.229
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah. Which was super interesting. And did you know that Peter Jackson, the Lord of the Rings director, actually partially learned to read because of tintin and reading graphic novels that.

1033
01:24:18.230 --> 01:24:18.850
Tad Eggleston: Bye.

1034
01:24:18.850 --> 01:24:21.000
Alexandra Bowman: Action based on words like that was, I did.

1035
01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:23.220
Tad Eggleston: Not. But that does not shock me.

1036
01:24:23.220 --> 01:24:25.230
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, right? Right? It's really.

1037
01:24:25.230 --> 01:24:27.759
Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's a it's a common story

1038
01:24:29.290 --> 01:24:32.329
Tad Eggleston: for both both famous people and not.

1039
01:24:32.330 --> 01:24:33.200
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1040
01:24:33.200 --> 01:24:35.520
Tad Eggleston: I mean Spiegelman.

1041
01:24:35.930 --> 01:24:37.480
Tad Eggleston: famously called

1042
01:24:37.590 --> 01:24:45.150
Tad Eggleston: Comics, a gateway drug to Literacy, which my only issue with that is that comics are also actual literacy.

1043
01:24:45.150 --> 01:24:46.130
Alexandra Bowman: Right?

1044
01:24:47.740 --> 01:24:48.940
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? Right? Right?

1045
01:24:50.560 --> 01:25:11.009
Alexandra Bowman: Right? I've had to share some of that with a lot of my reading clients. And and yeah, by the way, my full time job is private educational consultant, because Lord knows that political cartoons aren't paying the bills. I am actually not making a cent from my political cartoons right now beyond the prize money for this award, which is my de facto salary for counterpart.

1046
01:25:11.010 --> 01:25:15.040
Tad Eggleston: No cause you. You're making at least $7 from your sub stack.

1047
01:25:15.040 --> 01:25:17.330
Alexandra Bowman: I am. Thank you for that. I really appreciate.

1048
01:25:18.030 --> 01:25:21.080
Alexandra Bowman: I'll be honest with you because I read something a while ago that.

1049
01:25:21.080 --> 01:25:25.389
Tad Eggleston: Well, actually, no, I don't know how much sub stack keeps. How much does substack keep.

1050
01:25:25.390 --> 01:25:30.459
Alexandra Bowman: I got an email saying that $7 have been sent to my debit card because of your donation.

1051
01:25:30.460 --> 01:25:32.550
Tad Eggleston: Oh, hey! Hey! You got it all.

1052
01:25:32.550 --> 01:25:35.749
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, that seems very strange and wrong, but

1053
01:25:36.720 --> 01:26:04.340
Alexandra Bowman: so it seems. But yeah. So my full time job is working with clients on reading and writing, tutoring, and I have 2 contracts with college prep firms for largely like college prep. Or K. 12 private school admissions. Prep work. I'm not making any money from political cartooning. So I have.

1054
01:26:04.340 --> 01:26:04.840
Tad Eggleston: Sucks.

1055
01:26:04.840 --> 01:26:14.810
Alexandra Bowman: A job with 0 money and job with kind of an highly unusual amount of money per hour, and at the end of the day when you meet in the middle, it's like a normal amount of money. So.

1056
01:26:14.810 --> 01:26:15.670
Tad Eggleston: There you go!

1057
01:26:15.790 --> 01:26:19.429
Alexandra Bowman: So so that's that's really cool and you know, I.

1058
01:26:19.430 --> 01:26:24.650
Tad Eggleston: And and like you got your political cartooning job because of

1059
01:26:24.890 --> 01:26:30.780
Tad Eggleston: of the the admissions scandal at Georgetown. So now you're helping people get into private.

1060
01:26:31.125 --> 01:26:32.160
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, my God!

1061
01:26:32.893 --> 01:26:34.360
Tad Eggleston: I'm just.

1062
01:26:34.360 --> 01:26:35.080
Alexandra Bowman: Good morning.

1063
01:26:35.580 --> 01:26:39.260
Alexandra Bowman: I have never. No one has ever said that.

1064
01:26:39.670 --> 01:26:41.109
Tad Eggleston: Please don't take that too personally.

1065
01:26:41.110 --> 01:26:43.219
Alexandra Bowman: No, no, no, no, no, my.

1066
01:26:43.220 --> 01:26:52.640
Tad Eggleston: Because I don't begrudge any artist money pretty much. However they they can get it. And frankly, the people who are paying you that money can afford it.

1067
01:26:52.640 --> 01:27:12.910
Alexandra Bowman: That is genius, you know. My my boyfriend has, like the same job. We're both private tutors as a full time, and we talk about the pros and cons of this work all the time, and we both try to stay on the right side of the ethical tracks, and that's something he should have brought up by now. So I'm going to get on him, for why didn't you tell me.

1068
01:27:12.910 --> 01:27:13.330
Tad Eggleston: This is.

1069
01:27:13.330 --> 01:27:13.810
Alexandra Bowman: Redoing.

1070
01:27:14.450 --> 01:27:15.090
Tad Eggleston: I.

1071
01:27:15.090 --> 01:27:15.540
Alexandra Bowman: That's right.

1072
01:27:15.540 --> 01:27:21.560
Tad Eggleston: I? Yeah, I never named them on air, but I work at one of the most prestigious public schools in the country.

1073
01:27:21.710 --> 01:27:23.570
Alexandra Bowman: Wow! Oh, my! Gosh!

1074
01:27:23.950 --> 01:27:26.010
Tad Eggleston: We.

1075
01:27:26.920 --> 01:27:34.739
Tad Eggleston: We have an inordinate number of students that that they're probably closer to your private school kids than than most public schools.

1076
01:27:34.740 --> 01:27:35.520
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1077
01:27:35.520 --> 01:27:38.750
Tad Eggleston: So I know all about the tutoring and the.

1078
01:27:39.950 --> 01:27:40.510
Alexandra Bowman: For sure.

1079
01:27:40.510 --> 01:27:45.830
Tad Eggleston: I mean, we we have. We have championship lacrosse and fencing teams. That's.

1080
01:27:45.830 --> 01:27:46.280
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1081
01:27:46.280 --> 01:27:47.809
Tad Eggleston: Need to know about.

1082
01:27:47.810 --> 01:27:49.739
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right, right, right, right.

1083
01:27:49.740 --> 01:27:50.140
Tad Eggleston: You know.

1084
01:27:50.140 --> 01:27:50.620
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

1085
01:27:50.620 --> 01:27:55.902
Tad Eggleston: How? How do you get white boys into Ivy League schools on sports scholarships.

1086
01:27:56.280 --> 01:28:13.713
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, my gosh! And that's the thing like my! It just happens to be this way, and the 2 firms that recruited me are both really Asian focused. But even besides that skewing, my sample, you know, vast majority of my clients are the children of immigrants, or chill like second or 3rd generation immigrants

1087
01:28:14.030 --> 01:28:14.680
Tad Eggleston: Say.

1088
01:28:14.680 --> 01:28:15.070
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

1089
01:28:15.070 --> 01:28:17.359
Tad Eggleston: Then then you're doing the Lord's work.

1090
01:28:17.360 --> 01:28:21.389
Alexandra Bowman: Right. Well, honestly, maybe I'm.

1091
01:28:21.390 --> 01:28:25.630
Tad Eggleston: As long as they're not the ones also trying to get rid of affirmative action.

1092
01:28:25.945 --> 01:28:36.359
Alexandra Bowman: Well, I was. Gonna say, please tell me if I'm dead wrong, I don't want to come across like a twitter troll or an uninformed conservative. On this I get the sense that

1093
01:28:36.410 --> 01:28:50.710
Alexandra Bowman: you have much more of an advantage these days if you are Asian than if you're a white guy, and I'm not saying that's good or bad, but I just factually, I think that in terms of admission you might have more of an advantage that way. Is that.

1094
01:28:51.090 --> 01:28:53.820
Alexandra Bowman: Is that reflected in your work? I don't know.

1095
01:28:53.890 --> 01:28:57.650
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I would need to see a lot of data before I believe that.

1096
01:28:57.650 --> 01:28:58.820
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, right, right.

1097
01:28:58.820 --> 01:29:11.310
Tad Eggleston: My guess is that maybe you have advantage. If you're an Asian male rather than a white male whose parents did not go to the school, and or donate a large

1098
01:29:11.350 --> 01:29:19.430
Tad Eggleston: amount of money to the school. But if your parents went to the school and or donate a large amount of money to the school. There's nothing that beats that.

1099
01:29:19.430 --> 01:29:22.780
Alexandra Bowman: Right right for sure. I think you're right. You.

1100
01:29:22.780 --> 01:29:27.109
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I mean, seriously, our President-elect went to the Wharton School.

1101
01:29:27.110 --> 01:29:31.319
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? We can't generalize across all of these groups. You're 100% right.

1102
01:29:32.430 --> 01:29:32.910
Alexandra Bowman: But.

1103
01:29:32.910 --> 01:29:36.100
Tad Eggleston: There was a there was a Do you read Mother Jones at all?

1104
01:29:36.100 --> 01:29:37.729
Alexandra Bowman: I've read a little bit of it. Yeah.

1105
01:29:37.730 --> 01:29:39.049
Tad Eggleston: There was a piece

1106
01:29:40.710 --> 01:29:42.390
Tad Eggleston: couple months ago.

1107
01:29:43.850 --> 01:29:45.969
Tad Eggleston: from a woman who.

1108
01:29:46.090 --> 01:29:50.900
Tad Eggleston: like the wanna, say, late sixties or seventies. There was a

1109
01:29:51.670 --> 01:29:53.080
Tad Eggleston: a program

1110
01:29:53.130 --> 01:30:01.570
Tad Eggleston: to get more indigenous people into I forget which Ivy League School that was literally founded

1111
01:30:02.060 --> 01:30:07.760
Tad Eggleston: on the idea. It got its original grant. It's in the original paperwork to help

1112
01:30:09.350 --> 01:30:10.510
Tad Eggleston: educate

1113
01:30:10.660 --> 01:30:13.010
Tad Eggleston: the native people of America.

1114
01:30:13.120 --> 01:30:17.870
Tad Eggleston: In other words, they were supposed to be having them from day one in like before

1115
01:30:18.190 --> 01:30:19.670
Tad Eggleston: for the Revolution.

1116
01:30:22.010 --> 01:30:26.279
Tad Eggleston: and their 1st admittance were in, like the 19 seventies.

1117
01:30:28.200 --> 01:30:30.309
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right, right, right, right, right.

1118
01:30:30.310 --> 01:30:40.739
Tad Eggleston: And there was like there was like, Oh, I didn't deserve to be there, but I mean just the same issue here on Fox news right now. Oh, if I see a black man flying my plane! I wonder if he got

1119
01:30:41.120 --> 01:30:48.030
Tad Eggleston: so one of the things that came out during the time that she was there and was covered by the newspaper. Was that

1120
01:30:52.210 --> 01:30:53.230
Tad Eggleston: the

1121
01:30:55.380 --> 01:30:56.570
Tad Eggleston: highest

1122
01:30:57.080 --> 01:30:59.839
Tad Eggleston: test? Scores by demographic group

1123
01:31:01.300 --> 01:31:03.269
Tad Eggleston: the people admitted to her school

1124
01:31:03.440 --> 01:31:04.919
Tad Eggleston: were among black women.

1125
01:31:05.190 --> 01:31:06.100
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1126
01:31:06.320 --> 01:31:07.779
Tad Eggleston: Followed by black men.

1127
01:31:09.050 --> 01:31:11.460
Tad Eggleston: Followed by other women of color.

1128
01:31:11.710 --> 01:31:13.199
Tad Eggleston: other men of color.

1129
01:31:14.820 --> 01:31:16.209
Tad Eggleston: women in general.

1130
01:31:16.930 --> 01:31:23.660
Tad Eggleston: and the group that had the lowest test scores as a group. Among admittance at this Ivy League School.

1131
01:31:23.840 --> 01:31:30.040
Tad Eggleston: just barely over the line required to get into this Ivy League School

1132
01:31:31.330 --> 01:31:32.460
Tad Eggleston: were white men.

1133
01:31:35.280 --> 01:31:42.420
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? Right? Well. And you know, I think, also based on the work that I've done like.

1134
01:31:42.530 --> 01:31:52.920
Alexandra Bowman: I think that a lot of white students, especially white men, are just not filling those resumes in the same way that a lot of terrified.

1135
01:31:52.920 --> 01:31:53.580
Tad Eggleston: I deserve it.

1136
01:31:54.222 --> 01:31:55.507
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, and

1137
01:31:56.150 --> 01:31:56.629
Tad Eggleston: Deserve it.

1138
01:31:56.630 --> 01:32:00.390
Alexandra Bowman: They often aren't getting in for that reason as well like I am.

1139
01:32:00.390 --> 01:32:01.239
Tad Eggleston: I was waiting.

1140
01:32:01.240 --> 01:32:02.039
Alexandra Bowman: See a lot more of that.

1141
01:32:02.040 --> 01:32:05.089
Tad Eggleston: With Chester and Squee.

1142
01:32:05.090 --> 01:32:05.560
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1143
01:32:05.560 --> 01:32:07.039
Tad Eggleston: I like beer.

1144
01:32:07.040 --> 01:32:07.800
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right?

1145
01:32:09.860 --> 01:32:13.010
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? Yeah, right? Exactly.

1146
01:32:13.780 --> 01:32:17.780
Alexandra Bowman: But yeah, I they're not panicking enough. Or rather, they're panicking.

1147
01:32:17.780 --> 01:32:19.770
Tad Eggleston: I mean, honestly.

1148
01:32:20.290 --> 01:32:25.399
Tad Eggleston: I'm I'm frustrated at how much too many students are panicking.

1149
01:32:25.400 --> 01:32:29.570
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, they we shouldn't be panicking that much. That's why I said, maybe.

1150
01:32:29.570 --> 01:32:33.959
Tad Eggleston: Honestly, I honestly wish that people would realize that

1151
01:32:34.370 --> 01:32:38.680
Tad Eggleston: no offense to your Georgetown education. I am pretty certain

1152
01:32:39.680 --> 01:32:42.680
Tad Eggleston: that 80% of the junior colleges in this country

1153
01:32:43.020 --> 01:32:44.220
Tad Eggleston: give you

1154
01:32:46.560 --> 01:32:49.570
Tad Eggleston: an education that 5 years out

1155
01:32:51.360 --> 01:32:54.070
Tad Eggleston: will make you as qualified as

1156
01:32:54.130 --> 01:32:56.349
Tad Eggleston: most of your Ivy League schools.

1157
01:32:56.760 --> 01:33:06.610
Tad Eggleston: I'm not saying that they're bad. But but I mean one of the problems with 4 years institutions in general is they tend to be research institutions more than teaching institutions.

1158
01:33:06.995 --> 01:33:16.749
Tad Eggleston: So to the extent that you're able to learn more there, it's only because they have more resources. It's not because they have better people to teach them to you

1159
01:33:17.020 --> 01:33:18.430
Tad Eggleston: by and large.

1160
01:33:19.011 --> 01:33:22.929
Tad Eggleston: Sometimes. How many classes did you have taught by Tas.

1161
01:33:23.300 --> 01:33:26.354
Tad Eggleston: and how many of those 2 tas wanted to teach.

1162
01:33:26.660 --> 01:33:39.522
Alexandra Bowman: I'm very lucky I didn't have any classes taught by Tas. I had a couple sections led by Tas, but they were sections accompanying lectures taught by the professors. But you're you're I take your point.

1163
01:33:39.880 --> 01:33:44.847
Tad Eggleston: But but and and again, if you're really lucky, then God bless you!

1164
01:33:45.870 --> 01:33:49.009
Tad Eggleston: How many of the

1165
01:33:50.210 --> 01:33:52.160
Tad Eggleston: think about your experience?

1166
01:33:54.820 --> 01:33:56.610
Tad Eggleston: Think of your favorite teachers.

1167
01:33:56.960 --> 01:33:57.680
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1168
01:33:57.920 --> 01:34:00.839
Tad Eggleston: How many of them are in college, and how many of them were in high school.

1169
01:34:02.532 --> 01:34:06.247
Alexandra Bowman: Hmm! Most of them were in high school. Honestly.

1170
01:34:06.660 --> 01:34:07.819
Tad Eggleston: You know why?

1171
01:34:08.100 --> 01:34:09.430
Alexandra Bowman: Nostalgia.

1172
01:34:09.430 --> 01:34:11.879
Tad Eggleston: No, because they're paid to teach.

1173
01:34:12.370 --> 01:34:13.800
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1174
01:34:14.780 --> 01:34:15.330
Alexandra Bowman: no.

1175
01:34:15.330 --> 01:34:16.460
Tad Eggleston: Paid, to teach.

1176
01:34:16.460 --> 01:34:18.079
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right, right, right.

1177
01:34:20.530 --> 01:34:35.969
Tad Eggleston: Your college professor. I mean one of the ways that that I feel like our college education is broken down, and one of the reasons that I'm a huge proponent of junior college, because the college teachers that want to teach are by and large at Junior College, because that's where they're paid to teach

1178
01:34:36.290 --> 01:34:41.510
Tad Eggleston: junior colleges don't care about what you publish. Junior colleges don't care about what

1179
01:34:41.840 --> 01:34:53.253
Tad Eggleston: your resume is if you're qualified and junior colleges do absolutely judge you on how well your students do, and how your students rate you.

1180
01:34:53.710 --> 01:35:06.470
Alexandra Bowman: Right? And yeah, I mean, and you're an educator now, like my mom taught high school friend elementary school for a while, and she came home hating that because it's like it's not my control. All I can do is my best, and I have so many, you know.

1181
01:35:07.409 --> 01:35:13.010
Alexandra Bowman: kind of her. Those losers are listening, but I doubt it.

1182
01:35:13.010 --> 01:35:19.860
Tad Eggleston: Well, you know it's it's not easy, and it's even harder if if you don't have the mentality to.

1183
01:35:22.960 --> 01:35:37.400
Tad Eggleston: You know this is a regular conversation with me and many other teachers, you know, because it's easy to take it personally, it's easy to decide that they don't want to learn. It's easy to. It's always easier to go that way.

1184
01:35:39.160 --> 01:35:40.180
Tad Eggleston: But

1185
01:35:40.570 --> 01:35:42.540
Tad Eggleston: that's to absolve

1186
01:35:42.980 --> 01:35:45.149
Tad Eggleston: the responsibility you have

1187
01:35:45.540 --> 01:35:47.540
Tad Eggleston: for making learning interest.

1188
01:35:48.330 --> 01:36:00.779
Tad Eggleston: And are you going to get to every kid every time. Absolutely not. But the second you decide that it's because they don't want to, or because they don't like you, or just like in the real world. How many people do things? I mean

1189
01:36:01.170 --> 01:36:04.989
Tad Eggleston: again evidence from last week. Aside.

1190
01:36:05.060 --> 01:36:09.349
Tad Eggleston: how many people really go? I want to go out and hurt somebody today.

1191
01:36:09.350 --> 01:36:12.819
Alexandra Bowman: Right right right. They don't.

1192
01:36:12.820 --> 01:36:18.140
Tad Eggleston: If you're thinking somebody else's actions is because they wanted to hurt you.

1193
01:36:18.240 --> 01:36:20.260
Tad Eggleston: You're probably missing something.

1194
01:36:22.780 --> 01:36:23.295
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1195
01:36:24.220 --> 01:36:28.469
Tad Eggleston: You know, one of the reasons I adore Tim waltz is is because

1196
01:36:28.790 --> 01:36:30.760
Tad Eggleston: every kid in Minnesota

1197
01:36:31.000 --> 01:36:32.480
Tad Eggleston: gets to eat at school.

1198
01:36:33.030 --> 01:36:33.655
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1199
01:36:34.280 --> 01:36:38.379
Tad Eggleston: Do you know how often the problem is? They're hungry.

1200
01:36:39.380 --> 01:36:44.899
Tad Eggleston: And it's not even just the poor kids. It's the the kid that's working so hard that he.

1201
01:36:45.490 --> 01:36:51.209
Tad Eggleston: he or she rolled out of bed at the last minute showered, and just didn't have breakfast because they wanted to get school on time.

1202
01:36:51.590 --> 01:36:52.370
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1203
01:36:52.370 --> 01:36:56.300
Tad Eggleston: Forgot to eat dinner last night because they they they

1204
01:36:56.460 --> 01:37:03.979
Tad Eggleston: got done with school, and they spent an hour working on the newspaper, and then they had a volleyball game, and then

1205
01:37:04.800 --> 01:37:07.819
Tad Eggleston: they had 3 h of homework and they passed out

1206
01:37:07.850 --> 01:37:09.369
Tad Eggleston: at their computer.

1207
01:37:12.300 --> 01:37:13.700
Tad Eggleston: You know.

1208
01:37:15.090 --> 01:37:20.550
Tad Eggleston: we ask a ton of kids, and we don't always take care of

1209
01:37:21.150 --> 01:37:22.449
Tad Eggleston: their needs.

1210
01:37:22.976 --> 01:37:37.250
Tad Eggleston: My single biggest frustration post pandemic has been this whole idea. Oh, it was terrible! We lost so much blah blah. And first, st my problem was, it was only terrible for the schools that chose to allow it to be.

1211
01:37:38.110 --> 01:37:38.790
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1212
01:37:38.790 --> 01:37:41.180
Tad Eggleston: Schools that decided to get creative

1213
01:37:41.200 --> 01:37:47.460
Tad Eggleston: schools that decided to find ways to learn whether they were exactly the ways we learned before or not?

1214
01:37:48.390 --> 01:37:49.800
Tad Eggleston: Did some cool stuff.

1215
01:37:51.580 --> 01:37:52.000
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1216
01:37:52.000 --> 01:37:57.500
Tad Eggleston: And second for every, for everything they lost out on. Why aren't we looking at what they gained?

1217
01:37:57.890 --> 01:38:04.209
Tad Eggleston: What kind of resilience did they gain. What what lessons did they learn? How can we then, incorporate that

1218
01:38:04.340 --> 01:38:06.100
Tad Eggleston: into their future learning.

1219
01:38:06.190 --> 01:38:08.850
Tad Eggleston: rather than just telling them that they're behind.

1220
01:38:09.210 --> 01:38:09.960
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1221
01:38:13.090 --> 01:38:23.280
Tad Eggleston: Blame social media for everything. But nobody bothers to go. Oh, how how easy! And you're much younger! So maybe maybe not. But like, when you were in high school.

1222
01:38:23.550 --> 01:38:24.150
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1223
01:38:24.150 --> 01:38:29.130
Tad Eggleston: Did you know your grade to the percentage point at any given time?

1224
01:38:29.520 --> 01:38:30.459
Tad Eggleston: I did.

1225
01:38:30.460 --> 01:38:34.070
Alexandra Bowman: Because they had this horrible online portal where we could check.

1226
01:38:34.070 --> 01:38:36.369
Tad Eggleston: Okay. So it had started by your your high school.

1227
01:38:36.370 --> 01:38:37.150
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, what?

1228
01:38:37.150 --> 01:38:40.820
Tad Eggleston: I was in high school. We got our grades twice a semester.

1229
01:38:41.889 --> 01:38:42.959
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1230
01:38:43.000 --> 01:38:48.969
Tad Eggleston: And you kind of knew how you were doing the rest of the time, particularly if the teacher came and said, You really need to work on this or that.

1231
01:38:48.970 --> 01:38:49.740
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1232
01:38:49.740 --> 01:39:01.019
Tad Eggleston: But now I have kids flipping out because the paper they got graded that they wrote yesterday got graded, and it's not high enough, and it's going to torpedo their grade and blah blah, and it's like.

1233
01:39:01.020 --> 01:39:01.710
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

1234
01:39:01.710 --> 01:39:04.449
Tad Eggleston: Oh, my God! You don't need that information!

1235
01:39:04.450 --> 01:39:21.090
Alexandra Bowman: Right right? Well, and it hurts you. It that's not learning that's trying to best your high score or reach a score. I've seen that constantly in my private tutoring, and I'm I don't mean to at all. Make my, you know, private tutoring for 2 years in any way parallel with your job.

1236
01:39:21.090 --> 01:39:21.980
Tad Eggleston: No, no.

1237
01:39:21.980 --> 01:39:23.129
Alexandra Bowman: It's it's really.

1238
01:39:23.130 --> 01:39:25.049
Tad Eggleston: Experience just I mean.

1239
01:39:25.050 --> 01:39:25.770
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, just.

1240
01:39:25.770 --> 01:39:28.510
Tad Eggleston: You're you're young, so I get where it comes from.

1241
01:39:28.510 --> 01:39:29.210
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1242
01:39:29.210 --> 01:39:32.729
Tad Eggleston: But you're old enough that you you just stop like

1243
01:39:32.870 --> 01:39:34.310
Tad Eggleston: downplaying yourself.

1244
01:39:34.310 --> 01:39:35.040
Alexandra Bowman: Okay.

1245
01:39:35.770 --> 01:39:37.049
Tad Eggleston: Somebody asks.

1246
01:39:37.490 --> 01:39:40.839
Tad Eggleston: you know, if there's reason to say, Hey.

1247
01:39:41.610 --> 01:39:47.520
Tad Eggleston: you know it doesn't mean you have to lie about your but but you deserve to be confident. You've done a lot.

1248
01:39:48.330 --> 01:39:49.629
Alexandra Bowman: I mean.

1249
01:39:49.630 --> 01:39:52.460
Tad Eggleston: I've been going through your portfolio for the.

1250
01:39:52.460 --> 01:39:52.860
Alexandra Bowman: Oh!

1251
01:39:52.860 --> 01:39:54.370
Tad Eggleston: Few hours and like

1252
01:39:55.540 --> 01:40:00.069
Tad Eggleston: and and like, we haven't even gotten into these freaking costumes that you

1253
01:40:01.000 --> 01:40:02.280
Tad Eggleston: ridiculous.

1254
01:40:02.280 --> 01:40:03.210
Alexandra Bowman: Thank you. I.

1255
01:40:03.790 --> 01:40:04.220
Alexandra Bowman: Indeed.

1256
01:40:04.220 --> 01:40:08.070
Tad Eggleston: Though I have to. I have to give you a mild, hard time.

1257
01:40:08.070 --> 01:40:08.709
Alexandra Bowman: We won't go.

1258
01:40:08.710 --> 01:40:10.740
Tad Eggleston: So too deep into this, but really.

1259
01:40:10.740 --> 01:40:11.500
Alexandra Bowman: No, no, no, I appreciate it.

1260
01:40:11.500 --> 01:40:15.240
Tad Eggleston: Andrew Lloyd Webber, but no Sondheim anywhere.

1261
01:40:15.792 --> 01:40:18.389
Alexandra Bowman: Say that one more time. I'm.

1262
01:40:18.390 --> 01:40:20.270
Tad Eggleston: No son, time anywhere.

1263
01:40:22.370 --> 01:40:23.990
Alexandra Bowman: terms of costumes, or what particular.

1264
01:40:23.990 --> 01:40:35.270
Tad Eggleston: Well, I'm just looking at the costumes, but but I've seen lots of evidence between costumes and cat and stickers that you have a a real affinity for cats.

1265
01:40:35.700 --> 01:40:40.430
Tad Eggleston: I see I see no Sweeney Todd. I see no pacific oversures.

1266
01:40:40.430 --> 01:40:41.080
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

1267
01:40:41.080 --> 01:40:42.910
Tad Eggleston: No assassins.

1268
01:40:42.910 --> 01:40:47.812
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, well, I I wrote part of my master's thesis on assassins.

1269
01:40:48.190 --> 01:40:49.330
Tad Eggleston: You're forgiven them.

1270
01:40:50.290 --> 01:40:50.710
Tad Eggleston: but it.

1271
01:40:50.710 --> 01:41:02.110
Alexandra Bowman: It was mostly Evita, but a little bit assassins, and it was about like, how can musicals about historical topics be as both accurate and helpful to the discourse as possible. So I have.

1272
01:41:02.110 --> 01:41:03.539
Tad Eggleston: Essence is brilliant.

1273
01:41:04.550 --> 01:41:06.069
Tad Eggleston: Have you gotten to see it?

1274
01:41:06.070 --> 01:41:07.850
Alexandra Bowman: I haven't seen it, but I've got.

1275
01:41:07.850 --> 01:41:09.869
Tad Eggleston: I've seen. I've seen a couple of different

1276
01:41:10.360 --> 01:41:11.549
Tad Eggleston: productions of it.

1277
01:41:11.550 --> 01:41:16.670
Alexandra Bowman: Nice. I watched the like the full Neil Patrick Harris, one.

1278
01:41:16.670 --> 01:41:18.210
Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1279
01:41:18.610 --> 01:41:25.550
Tad Eggleston: And actually, the the second one I saw included some of that music, but also stripped down.

1280
01:41:25.780 --> 01:41:27.210
Alexandra Bowman: Interesting.

1281
01:41:27.210 --> 01:41:29.410
Tad Eggleston: It was, it was literally done in.

1282
01:41:30.160 --> 01:41:32.880
Tad Eggleston: Actually I got to see the rehearsal Space

1283
01:41:33.340 --> 01:41:43.950
Tad Eggleston: version. But it was a it was. It was so it was a much more lighted, and I didn't have like all the lighting and stuff, but it was a mostly dress rehearsal type thing. So you know that most of the

1284
01:41:45.400 --> 01:41:48.350
Tad Eggleston: but they literally had the Balladeer

1285
01:41:49.160 --> 01:41:50.680
Tad Eggleston: playing all the music.

1286
01:41:50.850 --> 01:41:53.800
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

1287
01:41:53.800 --> 01:41:55.659
Tad Eggleston: So it's just a banjo version.

1288
01:41:55.660 --> 01:41:57.150
Alexandra Bowman: So cool.

1289
01:41:57.150 --> 01:42:01.520
Tad Eggleston: Everything he he was accompanying all the other songs, too, from like the side.

1290
01:42:01.520 --> 01:42:02.400
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right, right.

1291
01:42:02.400 --> 01:42:05.750
Tad Eggleston: And it was, and it was it was staged, for like a black box theater.

1292
01:42:06.130 --> 01:42:20.439
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Yeah, I mean, that shows had such a complicated critical history like, I love it. When people take a weird spin on on a text, even when it's it's been popular for a certain take, or just in an attempt to see if they can again

1293
01:42:20.440 --> 01:42:41.849
Alexandra Bowman: throw in some creative production element or authorial intent that might reframe it in a way that makes it more not just more relevant, but make more sense, or make a new argument, or something like that. I love seeing what people could do with that. But yeah, assassins has had a complicated critical history. So I'd be very interested to see what people might do with it.

1294
01:42:42.290 --> 01:42:43.820
Tad Eggleston: It's such a fun musical, though.

1295
01:42:43.820 --> 01:42:44.869
Alexandra Bowman: It is, it is.

1296
01:42:45.235 --> 01:42:51.820
Tad Eggleston: I mean, it shouldn't be as fun as it is. But that's that's like so much great art.

1297
01:42:53.370 --> 01:42:55.600
Tad Eggleston: That's that's what you can say about it.

1298
01:42:55.600 --> 01:43:00.760
Alexandra Bowman: Amen. But yeah, maybe maybe next time, if if you do repeats, we can get in.

1299
01:43:00.760 --> 01:43:01.690
Tad Eggleston: Oh, I.

1300
01:43:01.690 --> 01:43:02.800
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah. Very good. Side.

1301
01:43:02.800 --> 01:43:05.350
Tad Eggleston: Tom King's coming on for, like the 4th time next week.

1302
01:43:05.350 --> 01:43:07.050
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, excellent! Well, we gotta do that.

1303
01:43:07.050 --> 01:43:13.049
Tad Eggleston: Or you know, I mean, we could start a book club, whatever you can. Come on as often as you want. Alexandra.

1304
01:43:13.050 --> 01:43:14.808
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, that's kind of you.

1305
01:43:15.504 --> 01:43:18.600
Tad Eggleston: I mean you're young and busy, so I don't.

1306
01:43:18.600 --> 01:43:19.219
Alexandra Bowman: Respect you.

1307
01:43:19.220 --> 01:43:21.629
Tad Eggleston: I have time to come on a ton, but, like well.

1308
01:43:21.630 --> 01:43:37.209
Alexandra Bowman: Well, no, no, I mean I've made so many of. I've had to redo so many schedulings in the last month because of all this nonsense. So it's been more crazy than it usually is this last month, but I appreciate it.

1309
01:43:37.210 --> 01:43:39.669
Tad Eggleston: Quickly. Tell me how you got into theater.

1310
01:43:39.670 --> 01:43:43.304
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah, so I deeply love.

1311
01:43:43.970 --> 01:44:00.840
Alexandra Bowman: I always loved the idea of doing being an expressive character on a stage. I loved that idea. I could only do one performing arts elective in high school, and I chose to do orchestra to get into college, so I was always adjacent.

1312
01:44:00.840 --> 01:44:10.239
Tad Eggleston: Okay. My best friend went to Boston Conservatory for her master's in Music Theater, so you can get into college without.

1313
01:44:10.240 --> 01:44:34.350
Alexandra Bowman: I believe that genuinely at the time people who were in theater were consumed by how many rehearsals there were, and they did not have at least anecdotally. When I talked to people they did not have time for anything else, so I was worried that I wouldn't be able to continue being like the debate, Captain, where I was.

1314
01:44:34.350 --> 01:44:35.700
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

1315
01:44:35.700 --> 01:44:36.220
Alexandra Bowman: The 8.

1316
01:44:36.220 --> 01:44:38.050
Tad Eggleston: Really what got you into college to be.

1317
01:44:38.050 --> 01:44:38.550
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

1318
01:44:40.250 --> 01:45:10.219
Alexandra Bowman: Sent me a letter after I accepted the admission offer, saying it was the debate. You know I don't know to what degree it was a form email. But but yeah, so I got to be the character on the stage in a other way, especially given. I did Congressional debate, which is the one where you're graded more on theatrics than content. But yeah, so when I got to college, I really I had developed some of those interests in entertainment for a purpose, and I did a lot of

1319
01:45:10.240 --> 01:45:15.919
Alexandra Bowman: talking into a screen or gesticulating for a screen for that and then I did some.

1320
01:45:15.920 --> 01:45:19.619
Tad Eggleston: For for those of you at home. Listening. She just did wonderful jazz hands.

1321
01:45:19.985 --> 01:45:20.350
Alexandra Bowman: Yes.

1322
01:45:22.062 --> 01:45:24.957
Alexandra Bowman: I'm usually doing something like that.

1323
01:45:25.440 --> 01:45:31.390
Tad Eggleston: Which I mean that that would have fit really well with the, with the the completely sparkly

1324
01:45:31.820 --> 01:45:33.920
Tad Eggleston: something that you were wearing.

1325
01:45:35.680 --> 01:45:37.369
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, right? Yeah. Yeah.

1326
01:45:37.700 --> 01:45:39.360
Alexandra Bowman: Well, they said. There.

1327
01:45:39.360 --> 01:45:41.370
Tad Eggleston: When you chickened out on Karaoke.

1328
01:45:41.370 --> 01:45:49.889
Alexandra Bowman: Right right. I put my name in, and they just put it in late. I put my name in in the song real late, and and.

1329
01:45:49.890 --> 01:45:51.577
Tad Eggleston: Deliberately put it in.

1330
01:45:52.430 --> 01:45:53.290
Alexandra Bowman: It's like.

1331
01:45:53.290 --> 01:45:57.129
Tad Eggleston: We closed down in 15 min time to put my name in.

1332
01:45:57.130 --> 01:46:10.582
Alexandra Bowman: Exactly but yeah, I wasn't sure what the after party Vibe would be of the Cxe after party. So I took my Mr. Mistophele's sparkly jumpsuit, and just wore that.

1333
01:46:10.990 --> 01:46:11.610
Tad Eggleston: There you go!

1334
01:46:11.610 --> 01:46:14.509
Alexandra Bowman: No, I didn't want to be underdressed. So I.

1335
01:46:14.510 --> 01:46:15.359
Tad Eggleston: And you weren't.

1336
01:46:15.510 --> 01:46:15.969
Alexandra Bowman: I was.

1337
01:46:15.970 --> 01:46:18.760
Tad Eggleston: But you weren't. You also weren't the only one dressed up.

1338
01:46:19.030 --> 01:46:20.649
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right, that that was good.

1339
01:46:20.650 --> 01:46:22.739
Tad Eggleston: But I was there in jeans and a t-shirt.

1340
01:46:22.940 --> 01:46:25.639
Alexandra Bowman: Well, it takes cartoonists are weird.

1341
01:46:25.640 --> 01:46:29.399
Tad Eggleston: And and Nate Powell was probably dressed down compared to me.

1342
01:46:29.850 --> 01:46:30.300
Alexandra Bowman: Right?

1343
01:46:31.696 --> 01:46:35.869
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? Right? Right? Oh, my gosh.

1344
01:46:36.060 --> 01:46:41.321
Alexandra Bowman: oh, man! But yeah, so I I've always wanted to

1345
01:46:41.960 --> 01:46:55.600
Alexandra Bowman: and reach as many people as possible with the things that I'm interested in. And I also just want to be on a stage talking to people reaching to as many people as I possibly can. Which has led to you know I.

1346
01:46:55.600 --> 01:46:59.029
Tad Eggleston: Well, on this podcast you're talking to my mom.

1347
01:47:00.040 --> 01:47:04.000
Tad Eggleston: my friends, John and Britt. And if we're lucky, a few dozen other people.

1348
01:47:04.000 --> 01:47:21.093
Alexandra Bowman: There you go. Oh, my gosh, yeah, there you go. But yeah, so and there were a limited number of performing arts and entertainment related opportunities at Georgetown. There were not that, at least worked with my schedule.

1349
01:47:21.500 --> 01:47:25.550
Tad Eggleston: You mean. The school closest to the capital is busy with other things.

1350
01:47:25.550 --> 01:47:33.476
Alexandra Bowman: Right. Well, and I thought there'd be more people interested in like a political comedy show there for for those reasons, and there weren't. I was very surprised.

1351
01:47:33.760 --> 01:47:39.420
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, probably 10 years ago, I mean, the capitals become more and more polarized over the last.

1352
01:47:39.580 --> 01:47:40.550
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

1353
01:47:40.550 --> 01:47:43.490
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I I know enough people who live out there.

1354
01:47:44.200 --> 01:47:47.330
Tad Eggleston: or have lived there through the years that, like

1355
01:47:50.180 --> 01:47:56.210
Tad Eggleston: there used to be a much greater ability for for the capital region to make fun of itself.

1356
01:47:56.930 --> 01:47:57.650
Alexandra Bowman: Right.

1357
01:47:58.350 --> 01:48:04.850
Alexandra Bowman: Right. Well, I don't know. Maybe maybe people deemed Colbert to cringe, or what have you? But yeah.

1358
01:48:04.850 --> 01:48:05.850
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I don't know.

1359
01:48:05.850 --> 01:48:28.697
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Yeah. Well, I I took the opportunities that were there, and one of them was place in a summer camp writing arts, journalism. And then at the end of that camp you got free. A free byline writing something for Xyz list of publications, and mine was theater arts. And then I ended up writing for them for 3 years, and I still, I'm still going. It's not over.

1360
01:48:29.770 --> 01:48:33.549
Alexandra Bowman: I'm like. I'm so glad my voice is held out this long because I had a.

1361
01:48:33.550 --> 01:48:40.999
Tad Eggleston: I was about, I was about to say, we're we're we're we. Actually, I just realized, cross the the 2 h mark since we started the call. I don't remember when we started recording.

1362
01:48:41.660 --> 01:48:46.909
Tad Eggleston: so I should get to my favorite last question. I have no idea what I'll get from you, because because

1363
01:48:50.960 --> 01:49:02.169
Tad Eggleston: again, you you you have have among, I mean other than when I talked to Ryan Bussey, who at the time was just the issues director at

1364
01:49:02.780 --> 01:49:03.640
Tad Eggleston: at

1365
01:49:03.830 --> 01:49:09.160
Tad Eggleston: Giffords, but but just ran the unfortunately unsuccessful

1366
01:49:09.560 --> 01:49:13.470
Tad Eggleston: Democratic gubernatorial campaign for the State of Montana.

1367
01:49:14.240 --> 01:49:21.289
Tad Eggleston: You're probably the person I I've had on. That's read the least of the comics that most of our listeners read.

1368
01:49:21.290 --> 01:49:23.740
Alexandra Bowman: Right, yeah, yeah.

1369
01:49:23.740 --> 01:49:24.699
Tad Eggleston: We'll work on.

1370
01:49:24.700 --> 01:49:27.589
Alexandra Bowman: We will. No, please send me your list, and I hope that people.

1371
01:49:27.590 --> 01:49:32.370
Tad Eggleston: Well that that might be what we do. We'll start. The Alexandra reads comics.

1372
01:49:32.370 --> 01:49:33.669
Alexandra Bowman: Please yeah. Tell me.

1373
01:49:33.670 --> 01:49:38.770
Tad Eggleston: Novel list or graphic novel book Club. I'll just find cool stuff for you to read with me.

1374
01:49:38.770 --> 01:49:39.440
Alexandra Bowman: Please, no, please.

1375
01:49:39.440 --> 01:49:42.540
Tad Eggleston: I mean, as I look down. Have you ever read that?

1376
01:49:43.210 --> 01:49:44.879
Tad Eggleston: I feel like you'd like this one.

1377
01:49:45.600 --> 01:49:49.189
Alexandra Bowman: Oh, yeah, now that looks super interesting, I'd love to check that out.

1378
01:49:49.190 --> 01:49:51.169
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, this is Mariko Tamaki.

1379
01:49:51.180 --> 01:49:55.920
Tad Eggleston: Laura Dean keeps breaking up with me. It's a fantastic Ya book.

1380
01:49:56.190 --> 01:49:57.000
Alexandra Bowman: But I did.

1381
01:49:57.000 --> 01:50:03.480
Tad Eggleston: But I think it has theater kids in it. If it doesn't, we can find what you know. Raina Telgemeyer's drama is all about theater kids.

1382
01:50:03.480 --> 01:50:03.920
Alexandra Bowman: Right

1383
01:50:04.470 --> 01:50:08.200
Alexandra Bowman: right right. Well. Wikipedia says it has critical acclaim, so I.

1384
01:50:08.200 --> 01:50:09.226
Tad Eggleston: Hey! Hey!

1385
01:50:12.410 --> 01:50:14.379
Alexandra Bowman: Force of all knowledge, really. But yeah.

1386
01:50:14.380 --> 01:50:20.420
Tad Eggleston: I mean it. You know I'm definitely one of the teachers that says Wikipedia, is a great 1st spot.

1387
01:50:20.420 --> 01:50:21.510
Alexandra Bowman: It is.

1388
01:50:21.510 --> 01:50:23.669
Tad Eggleston: Particularly because they have citations.

1389
01:50:24.420 --> 01:50:36.400
Tad Eggleston: So. So if you have questions, go look at the citations. Not a great spot to use as your entire argument, but a great spot for starting to build and flesh out your argument, and to find sources.

1390
01:50:36.400 --> 01:50:38.650
Alexandra Bowman: Right, totally absolutely.

1391
01:50:38.650 --> 01:50:42.020
Tad Eggleston: But that's a digression. From my last question, which is.

1392
01:50:42.220 --> 01:50:43.400
Tad Eggleston: tell me

1393
01:50:44.210 --> 01:50:45.540
Tad Eggleston: something you love

1394
01:50:49.000 --> 01:51:00.020
Tad Eggleston: for for you, I'm gonna say, like, try to have it be somewhere in the arts. Normally I ask for a comic, if possible, but like books, movies whatever. But something that you love.

1395
01:51:01.320 --> 01:51:08.359
Tad Eggleston: That not enough other people have experienced, and you need them to. So you have more people to talk about it with.

1396
01:51:08.360 --> 01:51:09.586
Alexandra Bowman: Okay.

1397
01:51:10.230 --> 01:51:11.899
Alexandra Bowman: all right. So

1398
01:51:12.340 --> 01:51:21.590
Alexandra Bowman: I I, this answers are initially going to sound like a letdown, because it seems like something I would so obviously say, but I'm going to have good reason for it. So.

1399
01:51:21.590 --> 01:51:22.049
Tad Eggleston: That's fair.

1400
01:51:22.473 --> 01:51:41.109
Alexandra Bowman: I think more people should watch both the 1998 cats pro shot and the 2019 movie, one after the other, or within a short span of time, because you want to understand what that show was originally about on the stage.

1401
01:51:41.260 --> 01:52:05.820
Alexandra Bowman: First, st before you judge the show based on only the discourse about it not having seen it. And before you see the 2019 movie, I am not a psycho. I acknowledge that the 2019 movie was garbage. I know that I like it because I'm weird. But you, if you understand the angle that the 1st movie was taking, you can more clearly understand why this movie wasn't just cringe. But

1402
01:52:05.820 --> 01:52:13.459
Alexandra Bowman: what specifically about it wasn't aligned with this vision that I think amounted to an excellent piece of art in the original one.

1403
01:52:13.460 --> 01:52:27.660
Alexandra Bowman: But that was ignored almost completely in this, the second movie, and replaced with just this general weirdness and uncanniness that made it so bad, especially when combined with like genital jokes, for no reason.

1404
01:52:27.660 --> 01:52:30.580
Tad Eggleston: So now I have to ask the 1 million dollar question.

1405
01:52:31.960 --> 01:52:34.080
Tad Eggleston: Could break my heart with the wrong answer. Here.

1406
01:52:36.423 --> 01:52:38.239
Tad Eggleston: have you read the Elliot.

1407
01:52:39.427 --> 01:52:43.600
Alexandra Bowman: Yes, yeah, I have. Yeah. Oh, of course. Well, in all honesty.

1408
01:52:43.600 --> 01:52:46.319
Tad Eggleston: Well, you know, there are people

1409
01:52:47.070 --> 01:52:49.200
Tad Eggleston: who don't even know

1410
01:52:50.290 --> 01:52:51.810
Tad Eggleston: so like.

1411
01:52:52.155 --> 01:52:54.230
Alexandra Bowman: Well, here's the thing. So the.

1412
01:52:54.230 --> 01:53:00.299
Tad Eggleston: I had high hopes, because you seem to be somebody who, when you love something you want to know everything.

1413
01:53:00.300 --> 01:53:01.459
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right, right.

1414
01:53:01.460 --> 01:53:07.292
Tad Eggleston: But there are people who even go. Oh, I love cats! Oh, so you've read old possible old! What.

1415
01:53:07.600 --> 01:53:27.689
Alexandra Bowman: Are you kidding? Oh, my gosh, yeah, no, no, don't worry like my grandpa gave me a copy of that long, long ago, and I cracked it open. Thought they were cute. Didn't think anything more of it. But I read that first.st So here's the thing, though sometimes you'll ask people that, and simply by having watched cats. You kind of have read the book.

1416
01:53:27.690 --> 01:53:28.489
Tad Eggleston: Truth, to that.

1417
01:53:28.490 --> 01:53:31.469
Alexandra Bowman: There's a couple poems that weren't included.

1418
01:53:31.470 --> 01:53:32.470
Tad Eggleston: There's no.

1419
01:53:32.470 --> 01:53:40.480
Alexandra Bowman: So that book is just in the musical but yes, I have read the book. I have like 2 or 3 copies of the book.

1420
01:53:40.480 --> 01:53:43.689
Tad Eggleston: There's there is truth to that. I

1421
01:53:44.740 --> 01:53:48.790
Tad Eggleston: you know I I might have to, and I'm so bad at watching things lately.

1422
01:53:49.545 --> 01:53:50.300
Alexandra Bowman: Well.

1423
01:53:50.300 --> 01:53:54.080
Tad Eggleston: I have trouble sitting down and like watching and not reading at the same time.

1424
01:53:54.080 --> 01:54:23.339
Alexandra Bowman: Right? Right? Well, Julie, quickly. One reason why it's so important to appreciate that book of poems. First, st is that okay? The thesis of the show is that things that are silly, or things that are absurd deserve respect because they have more depth than you understand. If you read the book, which is a book of children's poetry by one of the greatest poets who's ever lived. You understand that this is a book about

1425
01:54:23.530 --> 01:54:34.889
Alexandra Bowman: these sophisticated adult characters who are thought of as diminutive and silly by everybody, including children. And yet

1426
01:54:34.930 --> 01:54:43.540
Alexandra Bowman: Ts. Eliot is respecting children enough to trust that they'll understand exactly the adult archetypes he's talking about.

1427
01:54:43.540 --> 01:54:48.069
Tad Eggleston: You mean that people used to write for children in a way that respected them?

1428
01:54:48.070 --> 01:55:11.659
Alexandra Bowman: I know exactly exactly. So, you know, understanding. Having read the book 1st in context, and understanding the authorial intent of the book and kind of understanding why it's so cool, and why it like, you know, Beatrix Potter, which also talked about animals in a way that framed them in an adult context while celebrating the diminutiveness

1429
01:55:11.710 --> 01:55:34.929
Alexandra Bowman: like Winnie the pooh! The original books is actually perfectly, artistically represented in its primary thesis by the stage show, and just unfortunately, the 2019 movie just threw that thesis out the window doesn't mean it's not a good time. It's just not faithful to the core idea of the books or original show like in it.

1430
01:55:34.930 --> 01:55:37.690
Tad Eggleston: Well, they probably didn't trust their audience.

1431
01:55:37.690 --> 01:55:38.780
Alexandra Bowman: I, yeah, and I.

1432
01:55:38.780 --> 01:55:46.060
Tad Eggleston: It's a huge problem with Hollywood right now. I mean, I I don't even just say that, based on what I see. I I know enough people

1433
01:55:47.360 --> 01:55:56.529
Tad Eggleston: they're not. There's enough crossover, particularly among writers between comics and Hollywood that like, I know that a major frustration

1434
01:55:57.010 --> 01:55:58.379
Tad Eggleston: of people

1435
01:55:59.960 --> 01:56:03.269
Tad Eggleston: writing there because they need to, because they make more money. There.

1436
01:56:03.270 --> 01:56:04.780
Alexandra Bowman: Right right right right right right

1437
01:56:05.970 --> 01:56:06.979
Alexandra Bowman: right right right well.

1438
01:56:06.980 --> 01:56:07.330
Tad Eggleston: Yes.

1439
01:56:07.330 --> 01:56:09.429
Alexandra Bowman: Is that satisfactory?

1440
01:56:09.430 --> 01:56:10.460
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that works.

1441
01:56:10.460 --> 01:56:10.930
Alexandra Bowman: Good.

1442
01:56:10.930 --> 01:56:11.810
Tad Eggleston: That works.

1443
01:56:12.383 --> 01:56:13.529
Alexandra Bowman: Alright, awesome.

1444
01:56:13.530 --> 01:56:17.497
Tad Eggleston: Alexander, it has been a blast.

1445
01:56:19.141 --> 01:56:23.319
Alexandra Bowman: It has been such a blast. Thank you so much for this, Ted.

1446
01:56:23.320 --> 01:56:31.550
Tad Eggleston: Alexander Bowman can be found at Alexander bowmanart.com on Instagram, as

1447
01:56:31.750 --> 01:56:34.330
Tad Eggleston: the Alexandra bowman, art.

1448
01:56:35.088 --> 01:56:37.320
Alexandra Bowman: Trying to make it easy for you.

1449
01:56:37.320 --> 01:56:40.489
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I I thought I'd seen one. That was something else. But but

1450
01:56:40.990 --> 01:56:42.694
Tad Eggleston: maybe that one's gone.

1451
01:56:43.120 --> 01:56:44.162
Alexandra Bowman: Thank you. Yeah.

1452
01:56:44.510 --> 01:56:44.960
Tad Eggleston: And then.

1453
01:56:44.960 --> 01:56:48.020
Alexandra Bowman: The costume. Instagram is a bowman costumes, and once you got that.

1454
01:56:48.020 --> 01:56:54.230
Tad Eggleston: Oh, my God, yeah, no, that's that. That one's pretty crazy. And and and you also write and draw

1455
01:56:54.490 --> 01:56:56.100
Tad Eggleston: for the

1456
01:56:57.450 --> 01:56:58.630
Tad Eggleston: counterpoint.

1457
01:56:59.020 --> 01:57:00.299
Tad Eggleston: But you know.

1458
01:57:00.830 --> 01:57:05.699
Tad Eggleston: Give her if you're gonna subscribe, subscribe to her state of the Arts

1459
01:57:06.690 --> 01:57:11.260
Tad Eggleston: sub stack, because then she gets all of the money rather than than like.

1460
01:57:11.260 --> 01:57:12.000
Alexandra Bowman: You gotta do a pay.

1461
01:57:12.000 --> 01:57:13.650
Tad Eggleston: Very minuscule.

1462
01:57:13.650 --> 01:57:14.050
Alexandra Bowman: Yeah.

1463
01:57:14.050 --> 01:57:18.065
Tad Eggleston: You can do the paid subscription state of the arts right?

1464
01:57:19.060 --> 01:57:24.920
Tad Eggleston: It's been a blast, and for 22 panels we will see you after the next page.

1465
01:57:27.520 --> 01:57:28.250
Tad Eggleston: No.

1466
01:57:34.020 --> 01:57:35.250
Tad Eggleston: for him.

1467
01:57:35.590 --> 01:57:40.463
Tad Eggleston: We're having this slow screen. So this might be be recording, because I just I got tired of the

1468
01:57:41.165 --> 01:57:41.610
Alexandra Bowman: It's.

1469
01:57:41.610 --> 01:57:43.060
Tad Eggleston: Silence, but but.

1470
01:57:43.060 --> 01:57:43.760
Alexandra Bowman: Right, right.

1471
01:57:43.760 --> 01:57:47.740
Tad Eggleston: But I'm getting the circle as I hit the stop button. Oh, there we go!