22 Panels: Comics for Empathy Understanding, & Change - It's Lonely at the Centre of the Earth

Psychocomicolgy's Dr. Edgar Ramos & Samantha Chavez, Bryce Ingman, Megan Smith, and Katie Avila join Tad to discuss Zoe Thorogood's It's Lonely at the Centre of the Earth, mental health, and suicide awareness/prevention.

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Consider donating time or money to any of the following organizations, or the mental health organization that resonates most to you.

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https://supporting.afsp.org/
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Transcript

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Tad Eggleston: Good evening, everybody. Welcome back to 22 panels.

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Tad Eggleston: I don't even know how to do the intro

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Tad Eggleston: to this episode.

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Tad Eggleston: A couple of times already, and and and

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Tad Eggleston: Megan was there for one psychocomicology. Dr. Ramos and and

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Tad Eggleston: and Samantha Chavez were were there for the other, and missed the the second. We we've used 22 panels to do what we call

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Tad Eggleston: comics for for empathy, understanding and change.

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Tad Eggleston: recently.

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Tad Eggleston: a member of the comic community

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Tad Eggleston: went through something that I know too well.

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Tad Eggleston: and it's just devastating.

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Tad Eggleston: When she lost her

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Tad Eggleston: brother to suicide

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Tad Eggleston: And in

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Tad Eggleston: his memory.

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Tad Eggleston: his honor.

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Tad Eggleston: She's donating the the

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Tad Eggleston: proceeds to what also happens to be a

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Tad Eggleston: devastatingly beautiful

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Tad Eggleston: book about mental health.

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Tad Eggleston: It's lonely at the center of the earth

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Tad Eggleston: to suicide, awareness and prevention

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Tad Eggleston: organizations through the end of the year. And when I saw that I said.

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Tad Eggleston: I've been wanting to do

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Tad Eggleston: an episode

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Tad Eggleston: about this.

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Tad Eggleston: whatever we want to call this.

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Tad Eggleston: it's kind of a big thing or a little. I don't even know what to call it

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Tad Eggleston: so I'm gonna start reaching out to the people that I think are, gonna be good voices and see who's available. See who's up to it. And we'll start by talking about.

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Tad Eggleston: It's lonely at the center of the earth.

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Tad Eggleston: and see where we go from there.

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Tad Eggleston: because mental health is something that.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay.

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Tad Eggleston: I feel like every time I turn around. Somebody is blaming something on mental health.

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Tad Eggleston: But nobody likes to to talk about mental health.

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Tad Eggleston: and I think it's important.

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Tad Eggleston: it's something that's come up in conversations with with everybody that I've that that's on this call.

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Tad Eggleston: you know, it came up significantly. When we're talking to to Jim Terry about

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Tad Eggleston: come home, Indio, which I made me know that Megan was was somebody to reach out to.

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Tad Eggleston: I've got Katie, Katie, Avila here? Who's the volunteer

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Tad Eggleston: Coordinator for for comics, cartoon or cartoons crossroads? Columbus.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: Yeah, we

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: I was.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, we managed. We wound up talking about our therapist in a bar while doing karaoke. So you know.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: But that's my kind of party. So my friend.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, me, too. I mean somebody, somebody who who is who's so unashamed of their own need for assistance that that

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Tad Eggleston: they can wind up talking about it with you at at a bar.

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Tad Eggleston: doing Karaoke when you're having a good time, not because you're having a bad time.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: Because they're having.

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Tad Eggleston: A bad time, but because it came up in conversation and like wasn't off limits, was somebody that I knew

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Tad Eggleston: should be in on this. Bryce is a behavior therapist specialist. And as I work in special Ed to, we've been known to occasionally send each other messages like.

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Tad Eggleston: Are your kids doing. Okay? My kids seem to be having a hard time this year.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah,

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Tad Eggleston: And and Dr. Ramos and and Samantha have have

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Tad Eggleston: built their their practice around

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Tad Eggleston: assisting with trauma and and using comic books to do so. So they're obviously my go to anytime. I decide. I want to have

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Tad Eggleston: a mental health conversation in comics. So

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Tad Eggleston: I'm gonna stop talking for a minute and and drink some coffee and let somebody else take the ball for a second, just because I think

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Tad Eggleston: I'm gonna break up. If I don't.

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Tad Eggleston: so please somebody, anybody, if I have to point at people, I will.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: I mean, I could start if you like. I mean, I did Google some dad jokes, but I don't know which one would be appropriate. So I'll just reference the book. So I did take a read of it. I hadn't read it before. Interestingly, my Lcs, my local comic strip guy over at beyond tomorrow. Here in Palatine we were talking about, and he kind of preface Zoe Thorgood as the

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: like the the It writer of the generation Z, and it was like, Yeah, okay, you know, I'm like, that's pretty cool. Let me let me see what else is out there. Whatnot but

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: and we have met it.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: You know, it's interesting because I had a lot of stuff running through my head, a lot of stuff running through my head. I read it as

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: someone that's just likes comics, and then I read it as a clinician, and I have 2 very differing positions

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: as a comic reader, and then as a clinician.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: Really interesting.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: So I'll I'll speak to the one

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: so I'll speak more to. Well, first, st as

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: as the reader. Just a comic book, reader, so I thought it was cool like I read it. I'm like holy cow. And like, you know, this. This, you know, individual is going through, you know her depression and what she's doing, dealing with the with the depression, and like page 3, and I don't have it in front of me. It it shocked me when she's like, and I'm gonna shoot my, I think so like, it's like what you know, like what's going on. It was powerful. I could say, like it's a strong read.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: It's a very strong read, and for that I enjoyed it enjoyed it very much

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: as vision

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: a little bit different. Take on it. and I'm open to to have a dialogue. And again, this is just it's it's funny because I have to wear these 2 hats.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: It was very, and I hate to use the words, it's kind of this hot word. Now, this Meta, like I found it very difficult, for I think the average individual to read, and it niched people like like it'll reach certain people. But it wasn't for the average kid who's depressed if I gave it to like my population, and they read it.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: It wouldn't grasp it, wouldn't. It would be like no, it was just tossed aside. So it's it's very niche in that which is kudos to her writing, but also like it's cautionary in that.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: I wouldn't always recommend it to everybody, to every, you know, adolescent or whatnot. So that was one thing my second kind of take out of it was, I like that? They, you know, they had your typical like, hey? You know if you need help reach out.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: But I didn't see treatment like.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: is she in therapy?

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: Is she working through there like? What is? What is she doing. And that scared me because it's like, you know, I want to be careful when we talk about like all these for mental health, it's

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: it's we have to create a different dialogue, or different word for books, for mental health or books. That reference mental health, you know, I know, like Tom King's, Mr. Miracle is great about Ptsd, but it's not really. We don't talk about it like it's for mental health. So I kind of am taking from that a little bit like we got to be careful about. Is it a book for mental health, or is it a book about someone's mental health

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: which is 2 different things.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: And and so, clinically, I look at it. It's a book about someone's mental health. I wouldn't say it's a book about mental health, because it doesn't really teach an individual about treatment and all that. It's and it's a little bit

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: very cognitive. I I think that that's my. That was my.

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Tad Eggleston: No, that's.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: I read it one time quick, like. All right, let me read it.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: I had to read my transformers to the. I had to get both of them done. So let me read these both really quickly here, but I ended up reading it on one night like I couldn't put it down like. All right, let me read it. Let me see what it is. So that was my! That's my immediate thoughts.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: All right. Go.

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Tad Eggleston: No. And and I think that's that's completely

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Tad Eggleston: fair, because I I know that I don't look at it as like this is what to do

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Tad Eggleston: where I,

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Tad Eggleston: where I feel this book is like.

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Tad Eggleston: and you made me really wonder how I would have taken it as a like 18 or 20 year old reading in, because my initial reading was Oh, I wish I'd had this book when I was 18 or 20,

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Tad Eggleston: but but as I listen to you now. I wonder if I'd had this at 18 or 20?

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Tad Eggleston: Would I have been able? Would I have felt as seen as I do now, or would I have just felt? Oh, the world is hopeless here this talented person is still going through this.

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Tad Eggleston: I am 99% certain that she is in therapy now. I was going through the end of the book to try to find it, and don't see it specifically there, so I might have seen it on her Instagram. I know that like

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Tad Eggleston: she's

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Tad Eggleston: speaks for for organizations and groups. So so.

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Tad Eggleston: But but you're right as I'm as I'm flipping through. It doesn't really.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, it doesn't really

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Tad Eggleston: deal with that

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Tad Eggleston: which also is the way I mean

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Tad Eggleston: the 1st suicide attempt I remember making. I was 12.

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Tad Eggleston: I went to the hospital when I was 14, because I put myself there.

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Tad Eggleston: You know

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Tad Eggleston: my family managed to not notice my attempts. Admittedly they weren't

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Tad Eggleston: great attempts. We didn't have any guns in the house I wasn't like.

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Tad Eggleston: I didn't get into cutting on my arms until later, and that was

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Tad Eggleston: more a therapeutic thing than a

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Tad Eggleston: attempt to hurt thing. Does that make sense

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Tad Eggleston: therapeutic? Self-harm, I think, is even the term.

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Bryce: That's a that's a popular way to disassociate from your whatever's bothering you.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: not one I recommend. I'm very happy that I do not do it again. Do it anymore.

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Tad Eggleston: For that matter, I I am probably well, probably not the only person. But I had my therapist

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Tad Eggleston: like.

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Tad Eggleston: I remember, I was like 19, and I just started smoking, and I was telling him about my week, and I'd say, and I'd have a cigarette, and it's at 1 point he'd go.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay every time I've heard you say you had a cigarette

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Tad Eggleston: 6 months ago, you would have been cutting your arms. So I'm gonna call this progress if you if you think

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Tad Eggleston: if if 2 years down the road 5 years down the road. Whatever.

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Tad Eggleston: Smoking's a problem, and you want me to help you quit.

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Tad Eggleston: I'll help you quit.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: It's the lesser of 2 evils at that point.

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Tad Eggleston: Right. Now stop beating yourself up, not having a cigarette

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Tad Eggleston: also, not advising smoking to the people out there.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean, sometimes it is the lesser evils.

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Tad Eggleston: you know.

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Tad Eggleston: and that's 1 of the fascinating things for me in this book is watching

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Tad Eggleston: the ways she sometimes effectively and sometimes less effectively.

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Tad Eggleston: finds.

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Tad Eggleston: What am I looking for?

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Tad Eggleston: self

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Tad Eggleston: calming self, soothing self.

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Tad Eggleston: reflective

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Tad Eggleston: waste? I mean, I mean again I I

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Tad Eggleston: dear God, I hope she has a therapist. Now, I assume she has a therapist. Now, I'm 99% certain she has a therapist. Now.

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Tad Eggleston: I also know how hard it is for people to decide that they need that.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: Absolutely if I could throw something. So, please, I was talking to my comic shop, Guy. I'll just call him Josh from here, and we were talking about the book, and I had told him how I felt, and he was like, you know what

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: he's like when he's like when he read it. He's like I was more worried about her. He's like, I hope she doesn't commit suicide.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: Yeah.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: And and it kind of threw me back.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: Well.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: bit more. It was

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: worried and concerned about her.

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Tad Eggleston: Can you get a little.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: I'm a 50 year old man, so maybe it's it's it's a little odd. But when he was telling that he, like his immediate thought was, I hope she doesn't kill herself. I was like, you know, that's funny, because my concern reading it was

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: worry like, like, Oh, man, I hope she's okay, like, I hope she's gonna be okay. And I'm like, all right. But I'm 15. How would a 15 year old read that

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: right? Interpret that

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: like, because I was worried like I was generally like, I hope she's okay. And you know our comic book shy is, he used to be a spec Ed person years ago, and his immediate thought was, I hope she doesn't kill herself.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: And I it got me thinking as we left that night. I'm like, huh?

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: Like, that's what we thought about. Like, you know, like it's it's I don't know. It's

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: it's the book. I think that's what it does is that it gets you to think and feel, which is amazing. But again I was I'm torn with this vacillation of how I read it, you know, and and it's that's that's the, I think, the hardest part for me.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: I'm gonna.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: Edgar, I want to ask you a question.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: Bye, bye.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: I really liked that you had said. I wrote this down books about mental health versus somebody's experience of mental health, like, what books

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: do you recommend out when you say books about mental health.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: That's a great question. So I have a colleague, Dr. O'connor. I don't know if anyone heard of Dr. O'connor

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: he has come up with, and I believe it was part of his dissertation. Don't quote me on that. He's got a site developed, and he works over at our practice as well.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: Common sphere.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: And essentially, it's a list of all comics that deal with or reference mental health in the issue that you know, pertain to specific mental health topics.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: And I think it's really good.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: you know. Obviously, there's going to be some better than others or whatnot. That's just the name of the game.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: But it's a it's a it's a it's a database essentially of comics and stuff that are for mental health.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: I don't know that answer that.

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Tad Eggleston: But right now I'm getting an error page when I go to

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Tad Eggleston: his curriculum. Vitae.

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Tad Eggleston: There's the database, though. There we go.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: Got it.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: So he he! We presented nationally over at comic cons with Langley. He does a lot of outreach gaming, therapeutic gaming. So he hosts a lot of therapeutic gaming for kids out here.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: We're trying to get one going out in Palatine. So he's

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: really that's that niche area. But his his database is pretty good.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, it looks

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Tad Eggleston: very interesting. comicspedia.net

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Tad Eggleston: has.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: No, it's a.net. Okay?

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: online database of hundreds of individual comic book summaries. Each summary is tagged with psychological themes that can

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Tad Eggleston: aid in selecting specific books to read with others who identify in those themes which can lead to stronger relationships.

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Tad Eggleston: It's like they're they're

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Tad Eggleston: alphabetical by main character, by themes and by demographics.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: So he has a little time on his hands. Let me just say that.

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Tad Eggleston: Ha, ha, ha!

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, it looks like.

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Tad Eggleston: looks like we don't have any updates since 2,013. He's behind man.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: Oh, well.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: So

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: I'm gonna text him right there.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: It also reminds me of the anybody familiar with the website. Graphic Medicine.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: They do kind of the similar thing where they do.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: it's anything within.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: I guess the graphic medicine realm and all of its different offshoots. And

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: I mean, they'll talk about like cancer treatment depression, all kinds of different stuff. But they've done that where they've created a database, and they'll do

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: different reviews. So if you're kind of browsing around for a book, you can search by

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: whatever topic you're looking for, or kind of stumble upon different things.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: I did go to

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: graphic.

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Tad Eggleston: graphicmedicine.org.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: yes.org and they do have a conference. They just had one, I think, this summer in Ireland it bounces around. I went to the one in Chicago a few years ago, and it was amazing.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: And what was really interesting is that a lot of the attendees were

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: doctors, nurses, librarians was another big one, but like to find another artist was like.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: There was only a handful of us there which I thought was really interesting, but and they had like different lectures that went on from different people doing presentations. And

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: it was really really interesting, really interesting. And I highly recommend, if you're able to check it out, to definitely do that. But it's another place for people telling very sad stories, and everybody eager to talk about those stories with complete understanding.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, she wasn't able to join us tonight. But Cara Bean recently did a book called I am here.

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Tad Eggleston: or Here I am. I am me, that is like a Ya guide to mental health, that I definitely

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Tad Eggleston: definitely hope that that I can talk.

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Tad Eggleston: talk to psychocomicology about at some point

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Tad Eggleston: because I'd like to get their take. I know that I talked to her. She was on recently. And she she worked really hard, with various mental health professionals, because her background was that

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Tad Eggleston: she was an art teacher, and she just

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Tad Eggleston: saw so many of her kids having similar issues to to her having, and she'd work it out through cartooning. And then

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Tad Eggleston: one cartoon or one Mini comic became a floppy comic became. Hey? You want to turn that into a graphic novel. And

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Tad Eggleston: yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: Bryce is like, I want that to be the way my comics go.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay.

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Bryce: Absolutely.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: I think one of the strong suits in this read was the illustrations, and how she decided to like tell her story through the illustration, and not only just the the words that she was writing as like a provider that helps kids work through their traumas and work through depression, and as well as somebody who has gone through their own mental health issues.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: The the images that were always striking me was that you know, when she would be doing something in her daily life, and the the image that she chose for her depression was always somewhere in

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: like the background, or it was, it was looming somewhere.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: And I love that word looming. It was definitely, always looming. That's that's a strong take? Yeah, yeah.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: because it's like it. Never you. You can go through your daily life, and

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: you know, go get a coffee, go to the store, go, you know, go to the park, do whatever you have to do, but it's always there like it's never true. It's never truly leaving you even when you're doing things that you're enjoying. So I think it was. It was very strong that she, you know, when I work with kids I always tell them like, you know. Let's let's draw this out. Let's you know. Let's let's create. You know what what this feeling is for you, so that we you almost have like a

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: a face to the name so that you have something that you can conf.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: And so I her, you know, face that she chose, for her depression was was striking, but I think it was very just representing of that the fact that it's it's always there. And I enjoyed seeing that in the graphic novel form.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: yeah, definitely.

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Tad Eggleston: I did appreciate that. She's got like 4 or 5 different versions of herself, too.

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Tad Eggleston: She's got the

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Tad Eggleston: the

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Tad Eggleston: like blank face.

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Tad Eggleston: She's got

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Tad Eggleston: the adult.

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Tad Eggleston: the teenager.

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Tad Eggleston: the

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Tad Eggleston: almost Chibi-ish

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Tad Eggleston: chibi ish

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Tad Eggleston: you know, kid?

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Tad Eggleston: But then the kid can also be

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Tad Eggleston: the one with the glasses. That's like

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Tad Eggleston: more

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Tad Eggleston: hiding from.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, it's yeah. I don't even know entirely what I'm saying. As much as I. I can so relate to the different ways she

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Tad Eggleston: idealizes

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Tad Eggleston: or ideas.

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Bryce: Or she's a worm, a literal worm.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Tad Eggleston: yeah.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: Yeah, I I also.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: you know, I don't know. There's a couple of different things. I'm thinking it's definitely interesting, because my depression definitely

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: hit when

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: I don't know when I was 13. And so it's kind of been something that's been in and out of my life. And so thinking about.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: We were talking about earlier, Edgar, as far as how I read this as an adult at 40, right now and then.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: how I would have read it

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: like at 1315 17.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: And I didn't really get into comics until my late twenties. And so even just to have that medium

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: I don't know. It's really interesting. It's like, I want to go back and read it with that in mind. It's like, I'll just go read it a 3rd time. It'll be fine.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: But I think that's really interesting, but one of the things, so I don't know how I would have taken this in if I would have found

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: it

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: more anxiety inducing, or if it would have been comforting in a way of like, Okay, somebody else has these thoughts. Somebody else has this language but

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: and so that I'm not sure. And that'll take me some time to really think about. And I think it's a really interesting question.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: But I absolutely love the visuals of this. I love. That it jumps around to different styles, and I think it really, I think the

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: for me, one of the strongest suits of the book is just to.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: I think, capture these different moments, whether it's like an anxiety or kind of an erratic feeling like

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: being able to jump around these different styles it just I think she really she really nails it. There's just kind of

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: that different language where it's like

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: you can write about it, but it's like for somebody to be able to put that in some visual way in a way you didn't expect it just kind of hits hard. It hits home a little bit harder.

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citizen.avila@gmail.com: But I I really liked her style of of how she went about it.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: And and I agree. I think the art was.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: And you said the word looming. The way she draws her depression.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: I think, is what's

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: you know? Nothing short of profound, because that's how we that's how I use it in therapeutically is, if I had a kid I was 15 going through it. I would have them read it as I guide them through the read of it, to make sure. You know things are going safe, but it's the tack that I would use is go, hey? If you couldn't use language.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: and you had to draw how you feel, you draw your depression. How would it look, and I would have them draw a picture for me, and then that's how you start to kind of formulate. And how would you fight it, you know, like, so they can actually put it on paper, and it becomes tangible for them to be able to say I could see it. I know what I'm fighting, because usually it's I feel this way. But I don't.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: It's it's over here.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: I'm shaking my head all about because it's it's not around us. It's just in this. It's in, you know, and it's hard to put somewhere. So I think, you know, it's kind of like a you know, heart pain like why, we, you know, cut or whatnot, because we want to alleviate that inner pain. And obviously, I'm very psychodynamically trained. Depression is anger turned inward. So it's and what is anger? Anger is pain and fear. So it's a chronic pain that we're dealing with.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: you know. Interesting enough when you think of like the medications for it. What are the meds? They're tranquilizer. They're pain meds. So it's you're treating the pain, you know, of depression. Essentially, so if you could put that pain on paper instead of putting it on your arm or putting it in a bottle or putting it in a drug. You know it'll help you combat it and fight it better. And I think that's what she does like very well is that she has it

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: looming throughout her book at different stages of her life like she can see it. So you know I want to. I come out reading it, saying

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: she's going to win this fight because she knows what it is. She knows what it looks like, and she can fight it. And that's where I would really take it is, you know, for kids to go, hey? Find what it looks like, because if you can see it.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: and you know what it looks like, you can fight it

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: so that that's what I found profound.

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Tad Eggleston: Hey!

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Bryce: Doing good.

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Bryce: Thurgood's a superb

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Bryce: illustrator, I mean

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Bryce: she it feels, and I'm I was not familiar with her work before this book.

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Bryce: but

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Bryce: it feels like she could do anything

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Bryce: in any style.

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Bryce: you know, from the most cartoonish to the most realistic.

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Bryce: and

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Bryce: that adds a lot of power to the book for me, and how I I

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Bryce: took it in

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Bryce: it.

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Bryce: It it made you feel

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Bryce: through that art

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Bryce: what she was going through, even without the words.

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Bryce: the way she expresses her struggles with depression, with suicidal thoughts.

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Bryce: through all those different ways, through all those different points in her life.

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Bryce: and how it kind of toward the end culminates in that

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Bryce: page where

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Bryce: it's like stripes of her.

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Bryce: and it's like a different art styles in each section of her body.

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Bryce: It. You know it had a visceral impact on me that that aspect of the book.

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Bryce: And then, you know, images are staying with me

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Bryce: like

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Bryce: what we were talking about earlier, what people were talking about earlier, about the

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Bryce: the looming depression. You know, the the bit where she's

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Bryce: in the car with her parents in the

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Bryce: van with her parents, and the depression is literally hanging on to the back of the vehicle.

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Bryce: So really powerful image.

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Bryce: The other image that sticks with me as an educator

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Bryce: is

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Bryce: when she is in school, and there are all these girls who are attempting suicide or

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Bryce: have killed themselves.

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Bryce: She goes to the head teacher, with her concern about

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Bryce: a high rate of suicide, attempts in her community

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Bryce: a pretty reasonable concern.

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Bryce: and she encounters one of those those people in education that

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Bryce: I can definitely say exist.

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Bryce: that

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Bryce: that you know what what the the head teacher says to her is. Oh, you know.

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Bryce: of course, at this age a certain amount of young girls are going to kill themselves statistically.

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Bryce: and the way.

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Tad Eggleston: Don't!

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Bryce: Go ahead!

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Tad Eggleston: Go ahead. I was, gonna say, the only thing that would have made it more real to me is if there was a mention of social media.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.

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Bryce: And and the way that she draws that page.

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Bryce: you know this, the the head teacher is imperious and monstrous and cold.

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Bryce: it's very. You know, it's different from some of the other styles in the book.

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Bryce: and that again, that

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Bryce: that illustration

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Bryce: is the way I feel when I've encountered those kinds of people in my education career.

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Bryce: people that have no business being around children because

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Bryce: the damage they can do.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Bryce: And with just a moment like that, the huge damage you can do to another human being when they're in that

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Bryce: developmental stage. And

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Bryce: anyway, that was that part to me from my personal background was really powerful.

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Tad Eggleston: That and it.

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Tad Eggleston: I think we've talked about this once or twice before. But if you ever noticed that, like

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Tad Eggleston: massive numbers of educate. I don't wanna. I don't want to paint educators bad, because most of us are incredibly aware of this and try

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Tad Eggleston: as hard as we can. But even among people who try really hard

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Tad Eggleston: particularly when it gets into like serious depression.

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Tad Eggleston: I noticed that everybody wants to go

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Tad Eggleston: to the current pop solution.

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Tad Eggleston: That's why I brought up social media and why I thought it was. It was really

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Tad Eggleston: considering that Zoe is Gen. Z.

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Tad Eggleston: You know what's completely missing from this book.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, there's like no social media in here.

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Tad Eggleston: There's like no social media in here.

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Tad Eggleston: She's got a cell phone. There's some texting here and there. There's there's some indication in a couple of places that oh, you know, this went up on Instagram or Whatnot, but it's not the cause of her depression.

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Tad Eggleston: That's absolutely been something that's been.

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Tad Eggleston: I feel like as a nation. This is the year that we've decided to take everybody's phone away because that will magically fix a problem that existed before phones.

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Tad Eggleston: Have you seen that.

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Dr. Edgar Ramos: It was depression.

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Tad Eggleston: We're in different states, Bryce. But yeah.

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Bryce: No, we took away phones for the 1st time this year.

357
00:30:45.620 --> 00:30:46.230
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

358
00:30:46.230 --> 00:30:50.999
Bryce: This was the 1st time we've said no cell phones at school. You know

359
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:56.279
Bryce: it. It helps a little bit on site, but it doesn't help.

360
00:30:56.630 --> 00:30:57.440
Bryce: They're

361
00:30:57.670 --> 00:31:07.400
Bryce: whole lives because the social media is just as destructive after school as it is during school, and they come in every morning with the.

362
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:08.070
Tad Eggleston: Well, but I'll.

363
00:31:08.070 --> 00:31:09.350
Bryce: And your account. What happened.

364
00:31:09.350 --> 00:31:09.730
Tad Eggleston: Right.

365
00:31:09.730 --> 00:31:11.139
Bryce: Media the night before.

366
00:31:11.140 --> 00:31:13.950
Tad Eggleston: But I'll also use the counter argument you like.

367
00:31:16.020 --> 00:31:40.840
Tad Eggleston: I don't think our kids are. So I think we project ourselves onto our kids when it comes to social media because they've grown up with social media. I think they take it differently. I'm not saying that there aren't kids. There's profoundly affected by social media, but I think that they have more tools for dealing with it than we ever give them credit for. They are more capable of going. Oh, this person's being mean. Block!

368
00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:51.630
Tad Eggleston: Oh, this is a toxic social media platform. I'm going to a different social media platform. Oh, all of the parents are here time to find a new

369
00:31:54.150 --> 00:31:56.080
Tad Eggleston: And what I have seen

370
00:31:56.840 --> 00:31:58.700
Tad Eggleston: out of social media

371
00:31:58.970 --> 00:31:59.890
Tad Eggleston: is

372
00:32:00.070 --> 00:32:01.870
Tad Eggleston: kids that

373
00:32:02.370 --> 00:32:05.590
Tad Eggleston: previously felt completely alone.

374
00:32:06.790 --> 00:32:08.160
Tad Eggleston: That aren't quite

375
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:29.940
Tad Eggleston: that. Maybe their their friend is somebody that they play video games with, that they've ever met. Or maybe their friend is somebody at a different school that they have met, but they only really get to see once in a while, and they wouldn't know at all if it weren't for social media, and the fact that they were in a magic, the gathering card group on social media or a comic book group, or whatever.

376
00:32:31.620 --> 00:32:35.120
Tad Eggleston: I think we only talk about the the

377
00:32:35.940 --> 00:32:40.230
Tad Eggleston: the predatorial relationships that come about through social media.

378
00:32:40.520 --> 00:32:44.219
Tad Eggleston: And I don't necessarily think that they're the majority.

379
00:32:44.600 --> 00:32:49.789
Tad Eggleston: I think that there's something that we should be wary of, and we should have kids be wary of. But like.

380
00:32:50.050 --> 00:32:52.909
Tad Eggleston: I worry about the kid that like

381
00:32:54.230 --> 00:32:59.579
Tad Eggleston: being able to check in with their friend, that's in a different class is what keeps them going through school.

382
00:33:00.340 --> 00:33:02.649
Tad Eggleston: And now they're not allowed to have their phone.

383
00:33:03.220 --> 00:33:26.920
Dr. Edgar Ramos: If I if I could add, There, Ted is it's a double edged sword. The social media part with in in dealing with depression and depression, because at one side, like, yeah, you can see, how is it a tool? Is it something that can damage or or exasperate an underlying, you know, issues already. Of course, you know, just like anything else. The problem is is that you know, I'm a what am I? Generation X. So

384
00:33:27.040 --> 00:33:29.240
Dr. Edgar Ramos: when we were young, we didn't have cell phones or whatnot, so.

385
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:29.870
Tad Eggleston: Right.

386
00:33:29.870 --> 00:33:38.379
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Like, when you see kids, it's like, Oh, you're always on your phone. You're always doing this. And it's like, Yeah, you know. But their whole future is going to be built on

387
00:33:38.380 --> 00:34:01.949
Dr. Edgar Ramos: and engage and develop better skills and protect. So it's a part of their lives more than it was part of my life, and so the advice I always talk to parents who say is like, you know, I have to remind them as well as the children is that the parents feel powerless, so they have to blame something and point at something. So their easiest thing is to go.

388
00:34:01.950 --> 00:34:07.189
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Well, it's it's the social media. They live on social media. Well, yeah, they do. You know part of it.

389
00:34:07.190 --> 00:34:08.520
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, when when we were kids.

390
00:34:08.520 --> 00:34:08.899
Dr. Edgar Ramos: So we see.

391
00:34:08.900 --> 00:34:10.269
Tad Eggleston: Internet in general.

392
00:34:12.300 --> 00:34:12.900
Dr. Edgar Ramos: You know.

393
00:34:12.909 --> 00:34:13.769
Tad Eggleston: For our parents.

394
00:34:13.770 --> 00:34:19.330
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Well, when I was a kid it was the beeper, you know. The beeper was bad, right?

395
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:23.299
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Every generation has something, you know.

396
00:34:23.420 --> 00:34:24.239
Dr. Edgar Ramos: right.

397
00:34:29.130 --> 00:34:32.650
Tad Eggleston: I feel like we lost Edgar for a second. And Sam.

398
00:34:33.100 --> 00:34:39.393
Tad Eggleston: But yeah, no, I'm pretty certain that there's a generation where it was the radio. The radio is killing these kids today.

399
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:42.549
Tad Eggleston: or or or or they.

400
00:34:42.550 --> 00:34:43.630
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: Jitterbug.

401
00:34:44.030 --> 00:34:49.179
Tad Eggleston: Or printed books. Now everybody can read.

402
00:34:49.190 --> 00:34:56.140
Tad Eggleston: It used to be that only people we could trust could read could read. But now that we got this damn printing press.

403
00:34:56.896 --> 00:35:01.670
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Dan Gutenberg. Can you guys hear me.

404
00:35:02.405 --> 00:35:07.144
Tad Eggleston: We lost you for a minute in there. We tried to fill as best we could. You were probably doing much better.

405
00:35:07.830 --> 00:35:15.170
Dr. Edgar Ramos: If I could just add this final point on is that it's something that we, I think, as clinicians, educators, is

406
00:35:15.170 --> 00:35:40.989
Dr. Edgar Ramos: teaching and educating parents on the dangers of it, but also the benefits of it. And and I think it's maybe we're not teaching them that, hey? Finger pointing isn't the answer. You know the blaming game isn't the answer. It's how do we get our kids to work within that system and still come out of it? Well, and I think that's promoting education, promoting all that. It's working as a team, you know. It's always about working as a team.

407
00:35:41.350 --> 00:35:44.100
Tad Eggleston: Well, one of my frustrations

408
00:35:44.310 --> 00:35:51.100
Tad Eggleston: coming out of the pandemic, and it's and with the pandemic, because there were so many schools that didn't get

409
00:35:51.460 --> 00:36:02.960
Tad Eggleston: the help they needed or didn't make the decisions to. To figure out how to best teach that just focused on going back rather than okay. This is the situation we're in. What can we do with it?

410
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:10.959
Tad Eggleston: we only talk about what they lost, and yes, they lost a ton of things, and that's important. But but I think part of getting it back

411
00:36:10.970 --> 00:36:21.769
Tad Eggleston: is also acknowledging the things that they gained. These kids are way more proficient at using something like zoom. These kids are way more proficient at

412
00:36:22.460 --> 00:36:26.019
Tad Eggleston: a lot of collaborative type things

413
00:36:26.250 --> 00:36:30.010
Tad Eggleston: in a Google slides or document setting.

414
00:36:33.800 --> 00:36:37.660
Tad Eggleston: these kids are way more appreciative of being able to spend time together.

415
00:36:38.120 --> 00:36:45.790
Tad Eggleston: I mean, that was that was the biggest positive thing I noticed when we came back. I just see so many more high fives and hugs in the hallway than I used to.

416
00:36:47.010 --> 00:36:48.659
Bryce: Wow! I don't.

417
00:36:49.540 --> 00:36:50.040
Tad Eggleston: But.

418
00:36:50.170 --> 00:36:52.759
Bryce: I wish I was at your school.

419
00:36:53.130 --> 00:37:05.129
Tad Eggleston: I like don't wanna? I don't wanna like I'm 1 of the people that's like, though. Don't mark them tardy. They're they're only spending a couple of minutes with friends on their way. They're not missing anything.

420
00:37:07.640 --> 00:37:16.290
Tad Eggleston: and maybe that's just my school, I mean, I know I'm at a ridiculously privileged school, the pandemic, you know. Not only did we immediately switch to zoom, but like

421
00:37:16.380 --> 00:37:20.789
Tad Eggleston: I was talking with with somebody recently about like.

422
00:37:21.580 --> 00:37:31.050
Tad Eggleston: because she had a a wonderful ocean background which was an ocean background. But during the pandemic our, our, our big thing, is teachers was, we'd have to

423
00:37:31.240 --> 00:37:34.849
Tad Eggleston: ask the students. So is that a background, or is that the

424
00:37:35.120 --> 00:37:37.289
Tad Eggleston: set the view out your window right.

425
00:37:37.560 --> 00:37:38.150
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Hey!

426
00:37:41.020 --> 00:37:44.310
Tad Eggleston: Because because more times than not it was the view out there window.

427
00:37:48.452 --> 00:37:52.080
Tad Eggleston: But that's that's had its own cause. I'll also say that, like

428
00:37:53.490 --> 00:38:02.890
Tad Eggleston: pre pandemic, I had a bunch of really privileged kids that knew they were privileged and and bent over backwards to give back and be

429
00:38:04.490 --> 00:38:17.290
Tad Eggleston: responsible about that privilege and post pandemic. I've got a lot of privileged kids that that don't have that same self awareness. And I wonder how much of it is, they got spoiled because the world fell apart and

430
00:38:17.430 --> 00:38:19.959
Tad Eggleston: their parents didn't know what to do. So

431
00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:22.620
Tad Eggleston: they just cushioned them from it.

432
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:23.920
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Well.

433
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:25.270
Tad Eggleston: you know.

434
00:38:25.270 --> 00:38:29.490
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: I think kids are always adaptive to their environment.

435
00:38:29.630 --> 00:38:36.009
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: And one of the things that I've seen in working with kids, you know, I'm

436
00:38:36.700 --> 00:38:45.140
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: I work primarily with elementary school. K. 5 now. But I have also worked with preteens.

437
00:38:45.380 --> 00:38:49.500
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: and they are really, really adept at

438
00:38:49.530 --> 00:38:53.129
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: creating a mask of a persona online.

439
00:38:53.510 --> 00:38:58.900
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: And one of the things that I really appreciate about Zoe's book is

440
00:38:58.910 --> 00:39:04.760
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: there is that mask that she has. That is the blank

441
00:39:05.756 --> 00:39:09.890
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: very minimal detail of just

442
00:39:10.070 --> 00:39:15.020
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: single thin lines. Holding it all together and.

443
00:39:15.020 --> 00:39:15.640
Tad Eggleston: Right.

444
00:39:15.640 --> 00:39:21.370
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: What was really interesting for me was that when she got off the plane

445
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:26.770
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: she was wearing that mask in order to see this guy that she really liked.

446
00:39:27.040 --> 00:39:32.720
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: and she kept that mask on, and for a few pages

447
00:39:33.120 --> 00:39:41.590
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: she took the mask off and had her face there while she was talking about that experience with Angel.

448
00:39:41.850 --> 00:39:44.969
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: which was, you know, really

449
00:39:45.070 --> 00:39:46.570
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: a traumatic

450
00:39:46.680 --> 00:39:48.399
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: time for her.

451
00:39:49.150 --> 00:40:03.620
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: and then immediately, like the day after mask is back on it felt like the perfect visualization of a vulnerability hangover. I don't know if anyone else felt the same.

452
00:40:04.530 --> 00:40:12.300
Bryce: Definitely. I I thought that was wonderful. And and you know there were times throughout the book where her real face would pop through. But they were so rare.

453
00:40:12.700 --> 00:40:15.620
Bryce: And yeah, I thought it was a wonderful device.

454
00:40:17.640 --> 00:40:28.510
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I don't want to interpret the crap out of everything, but when you think about the thin lines and the lack of detail, it really shows the frailty, the vulnerability.

455
00:40:28.510 --> 00:40:51.609
Dr. Edgar Ramos: ie. The weakness, the the lack of identity. And that's why you see, the next day she had her identity came back. She had thicker lines, stronger detail to it. So there was a she was back. And that's the beauty of the artwork is that you saw those different phases of her. Where was her different mood and different feelings coming out in picture form. Is that you saw the weakness? Then you saw she gets that moment of like.

456
00:40:51.640 --> 00:41:06.849
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I'm okay. You know, we you know, I just met him, you know. Now we're talking. We're doing good. And it's like, Oh, but now this is happening, and you know the match comes back so that that was the beauty of her art is that you can see her weakness and her strengths vacillating through her art. And that that's

457
00:41:06.940 --> 00:41:08.029
Dr. Edgar Ramos: that's pretty cool.

458
00:41:12.860 --> 00:41:13.480
Tad Eggleston: I

459
00:41:14.690 --> 00:41:16.110
Tad Eggleston: they found

460
00:41:16.300 --> 00:41:20.239
Tad Eggleston: the the page that that absolutely haunted me.

461
00:41:20.270 --> 00:41:24.489
Tad Eggleston: I mean there. Obviously there are many, but but the one that

462
00:41:24.560 --> 00:41:27.390
Tad Eggleston: it's right after she found out

463
00:41:28.890 --> 00:41:30.549
Tad Eggleston: that she wasn't

464
00:41:31.200 --> 00:41:33.499
Tad Eggleston: gonna share the spread.

465
00:41:34.240 --> 00:41:35.666
Tad Eggleston: Really quick.

466
00:41:37.910 --> 00:41:43.589
Tad Eggleston: Right after she found out that she wasn't going to be able to go to the Us. Comic con because of

467
00:41:44.030 --> 00:41:46.200
Tad Eggleston: the pandemic

468
00:41:46.510 --> 00:41:48.920
Tad Eggleston: and and reduced travel.

469
00:41:57.130 --> 00:42:01.789
Tad Eggleston: and it's got all of the faces it's got

470
00:42:02.500 --> 00:42:04.910
Tad Eggleston: the what do we do, the

471
00:42:05.890 --> 00:42:08.080
Tad Eggleston: it's all over.

472
00:42:08.620 --> 00:42:11.060
Tad Eggleston: But then what haunts me is

473
00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:21.920
Tad Eggleston: the knife that comes back? And then the text on the next page? That's the problem with flirting with the idea of something. Sometimes you fall in

474
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:29.229
Tad Eggleston: and I think overall that's referring to the idea of

475
00:42:29.790 --> 00:42:33.010
Tad Eggleston: going to the United States and going to

476
00:42:35.060 --> 00:42:39.389
Tad Eggleston: this con and and meeting this guy and that sort of thing.

477
00:42:41.390 --> 00:42:43.370
Tad Eggleston: but I know for me

478
00:42:44.180 --> 00:42:47.459
Tad Eggleston: and my history of suicidal ideation.

479
00:42:49.160 --> 00:42:51.470
Tad Eggleston: the thing that's always been

480
00:42:52.250 --> 00:42:54.210
Tad Eggleston: most difficult

481
00:42:55.120 --> 00:42:57.280
Tad Eggleston: to explain to people around me.

482
00:42:57.520 --> 00:42:59.210
Tad Eggleston: People who are close to me

483
00:42:59.860 --> 00:43:01.470
Tad Eggleston: is that

484
00:43:03.600 --> 00:43:14.400
Tad Eggleston: it's like a Pandora's box that can never be closed. Once you've considered it as an option, it always pops back into my head. I'm way better at getting away from it now.

485
00:43:14.850 --> 00:43:19.240
Tad Eggleston: It's been a long time since I spent even more than a minute or 2 with it.

486
00:43:22.390 --> 00:43:26.129
Tad Eggleston: But you know I can't remember a time in my life where

487
00:43:26.740 --> 00:43:31.229
Tad Eggleston: there weren't situations, and ironically, as many of them

488
00:43:31.660 --> 00:43:35.949
Tad Eggleston: happy situations. It can't get better than this. I don't want to see

489
00:43:36.240 --> 00:43:41.450
Tad Eggleston: what comes next as depressing situations

490
00:43:41.970 --> 00:43:47.417
Tad Eggleston: where where it will, it will, it will just it will pop up in the middle of everything.

491
00:43:48.610 --> 00:43:53.090
Tad Eggleston: I mean, that was the moment in this book that I felt most seen, because it's

492
00:43:53.170 --> 00:43:59.359
Tad Eggleston: you know it's an Ani defranco line they say that alcoholics are always alcoholics.

493
00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:04.398
Tad Eggleston: even when they've been dry as my lips for years, even when they're on a small desert

494
00:44:04.780 --> 00:44:08.730
Tad Eggleston: aisle 3,000 miles from anywhere to get beer.

495
00:44:11.340 --> 00:44:13.170
Tad Eggleston: And I've always felt that

496
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:14.340
Tad Eggleston: about

497
00:44:14.570 --> 00:44:18.099
Tad Eggleston: being suicidal is that that kind of like

498
00:44:18.120 --> 00:44:23.279
Tad Eggleston: addiction. It's it's not something that you get over. It's something that you

499
00:44:23.660 --> 00:44:28.810
Tad Eggleston: process and you deal with, and you continue to process. And you continue to.

500
00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:41.875
Tad Eggleston: I hate saying deal with, because that that's it. Feels like it cheapens it. Give me a better word, somebody, Bryce, you're a writer. Give me a good word.

501
00:44:44.645 --> 00:44:45.250
Tad Eggleston: No.

502
00:44:45.250 --> 00:44:46.559
Bryce: You say, Carrie?

503
00:44:46.560 --> 00:44:47.690
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: Or hold.

504
00:44:48.560 --> 00:44:50.495
Tad Eggleston: Carry a little bit.

505
00:44:51.710 --> 00:44:53.749
Tad Eggleston: but I mean.

506
00:44:55.870 --> 00:44:59.890
Tad Eggleston: if you're doing things right every day, you get better at it.

507
00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:02.859
Tad Eggleston: Certainly every year you get better at it.

508
00:45:05.530 --> 00:45:07.489
Tad Eggleston: but I'm also blessed.

509
00:45:08.010 --> 00:45:10.040
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, you get to sit with it.

510
00:45:11.290 --> 00:45:13.090
Tad Eggleston: You get to cope with it.

511
00:45:13.700 --> 00:45:15.479
Tad Eggleston: You build strategies.

512
00:45:16.590 --> 00:45:19.019
Tad Eggleston: You you stress the muscle.

513
00:45:19.799 --> 00:45:24.299
Tad Eggleston: That's that's kind of what therap therapy is. It's it's

514
00:45:24.310 --> 00:45:26.230
Tad Eggleston: it's a safe place

515
00:45:26.810 --> 00:45:30.450
Tad Eggleston: to work out the muscles that you need in a crisis.

516
00:45:31.678 --> 00:45:47.560
Tad Eggleston: That's become my new favorite teaching thing. When people are saying, Why do I need to know this? Well, you're a wrestler, right? Do you spend time in the weight room. Do you do? Bench presses when you're wrestling? No, but it helps me. I'm like, Okay, so no, you're never going to do this algebra problem.

517
00:45:48.080 --> 00:45:54.929
Tad Eggleston: But you're working that muscle. And you will use those problem solving skills. So you need to keep that muscle strong.

518
00:45:57.980 --> 00:46:01.710
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: I feel like I would have paid attention more in math class had I heard that.

519
00:46:04.490 --> 00:46:05.740
Tad Eggleston: I try?

520
00:46:11.870 --> 00:46:16.530
Tad Eggleston: Edgar, Sam, do you have any thoughts? I mean, you you guys deal with this professionally.

521
00:46:17.510 --> 00:46:21.389
Tad Eggleston: Do do we get better? Or do we get better at dealing with it?

522
00:46:21.390 --> 00:46:27.900
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I I think the way you you worded it was good. It's something that you grow and develop you. You do carry.

523
00:46:27.900 --> 00:46:32.090
Tad Eggleston: Develop. That's a word I like Bryce. Why couldn't you come up with that? You're the writer.

524
00:46:32.090 --> 00:46:33.799
Bryce: A really long word.

525
00:46:35.426 --> 00:46:37.733
Tad Eggleston: It's 3 syllables, man.

526
00:46:39.050 --> 00:46:39.520
Bryce: No.

527
00:46:39.520 --> 00:46:40.479
citizen.avila@gmail.com: That's what I'm saying.

528
00:46:41.530 --> 00:46:44.240
Dr. Edgar Ramos: It took me a while to come up with that word. Trust me, I Googled.

529
00:46:44.340 --> 00:46:45.540
Dr. Edgar Ramos: It's next.

530
00:46:48.990 --> 00:47:01.899
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I think it's I. I think it's important to understand that there's when you look at like diagnostically like what is depression like? There's different types of depression diagnostically where it's like, is it a single episode like depressive

531
00:47:02.010 --> 00:47:15.069
Dr. Edgar Ramos: single, you know. Single, depressive episode, is it major depression, is it, you know? Is it something that you're going through grief? Is it something that you're going through bereavement like. Is it something.

532
00:47:15.070 --> 00:47:16.750
Tad Eggleston: Maybe yeah, like.

533
00:47:17.310 --> 00:47:39.880
Dr. Edgar Ramos: You know, it doesn't look. It doesn't present the same for everyone. The treatment doesn't work the same for everyone. Some people come in very short term. They work through it, and they're like, All right, I'm done. I got the tools. I can do it at home like physical therapy, you know. I went in for a couple of sessions. I learned the stretches, and I can go home, and I can do it myself. But for a lot of people.

534
00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:42.179
Tad Eggleston: And you cross your fingers that they're right.

535
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:43.000
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Yeah.

536
00:47:43.720 --> 00:47:44.090
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Yeah.

537
00:47:44.090 --> 00:47:44.959
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Are these people? They're.

538
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:52.190
Tad Eggleston: I mean. I will say that that, like my therapist, thanks me from time to time because he, because I've had the same therapist, for

539
00:47:52.500 --> 00:47:55.870
Tad Eggleston: see, I'm 44. I saw him for the 1st time when I was 14, so I've had

540
00:47:56.320 --> 00:47:59.128
Tad Eggleston: therapist for 30 years now.

541
00:47:59.690 --> 00:48:00.409
citizen.avila@gmail.com: That's a relationship.

542
00:48:00.410 --> 00:48:09.580
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I've I've had a handful of other therapists, but but like the rule, even when I saw other therapists, because he was too far away, and it was before Zoom or whatnot was

543
00:48:09.590 --> 00:48:21.618
Tad Eggleston: like. You have to understand that I have another therapist. If you have an ethical problem with that if you're not willing to work with him. Blah! Blah! Then you're the wrong therapist for me, because he's going to be able to do in a session what you do in a month.

544
00:48:25.180 --> 00:48:25.690
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Yeah.

545
00:48:25.690 --> 00:48:26.500
Tad Eggleston: The hum.

546
00:48:27.140 --> 00:48:38.310
Tad Eggleston: but but he said, like what he gets out of it, the reason that he would, you know, because there were times where I was broke, and he's like, we'll work out payment. Don't even worry about it if you need to meet meet

547
00:48:38.855 --> 00:48:40.994
Tad Eggleston: he's like, yeah, no,

548
00:48:41.670 --> 00:48:44.519
Tad Eggleston: we don't see the end of our stories very often.

549
00:48:45.530 --> 00:48:48.679
Tad Eggleston: I've gotten to see you develop over 30 years.

550
00:48:49.860 --> 00:48:55.149
Tad Eggleston: I've gotten to see it go from the teenager that I hoped that I saw for his next session

551
00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:58.910
Tad Eggleston: to to the grandfather that, like

552
00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:03.649
Tad Eggleston: I'm just happy to talk to, because

553
00:49:04.670 --> 00:49:07.769
Tad Eggleston: you've got such a great worldview on this or that.

554
00:49:08.120 --> 00:49:09.170
Tad Eggleston: you know.

555
00:49:11.550 --> 00:49:13.239
Tad Eggleston: and that's something that we're

556
00:49:14.910 --> 00:49:21.280
Tad Eggleston: I mean, one of the things I love about this book even, and books like it, even when they don't bring up

557
00:49:22.210 --> 00:49:25.949
Tad Eggleston: therapy. I definitely love it more when when therapy is brought up

558
00:49:26.552 --> 00:49:31.707
Tad Eggleston: and like totally missed it until the therapist pointed out, hey! She never sees a therapist.

559
00:49:33.230 --> 00:49:41.229
Bryce: Do we? Do, we know? Like I really don't. Is is there a difference in the culture of therapy in England versus America.

560
00:49:41.300 --> 00:49:42.310
Bryce: or is it.

561
00:49:42.600 --> 00:49:43.380
Tad Eggleston: There's also.

562
00:49:43.700 --> 00:49:49.230
Tad Eggleston: I think there's a lot of similarities. I think it's a little bit more available because of national health.

563
00:49:50.090 --> 00:49:54.159
Tad Eggleston: But I think there's real similarities in terms of the stigma.

564
00:49:56.190 --> 00:49:56.760
Tad Eggleston: Thank you.

565
00:49:56.760 --> 00:50:05.220
Dr. Edgar Ramos: We all read the same same theorists, you know, we start with Freud. Yeah, it's the same similar approaches.

566
00:50:06.090 --> 00:50:12.270
Tad Eggleston: Right, and half of what I know comes from comic books. I've read lots of mental health stories and comic books.

567
00:50:14.720 --> 00:50:18.939
Tad Eggleston: so I know, France seems to have some. I read a great book

568
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:21.830
Tad Eggleston: called Transitions recently.

569
00:50:23.290 --> 00:50:25.419
Tad Eggleston: where it's a biologist, Mom.

570
00:50:26.360 --> 00:50:29.870
Tad Eggleston: like working through and supporting her child

571
00:50:30.560 --> 00:50:34.890
Tad Eggleston: in a tran, you know, through through a gender transition

572
00:50:35.458 --> 00:50:43.480
Tad Eggleston: and apparently in in France she was not only able to find a therapist to work with her, but a therapist who had, like expertise in.

573
00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:44.210
Bryce: Wow! No.

574
00:50:44.210 --> 00:50:46.890
Tad Eggleston: Helping helping the families.

575
00:50:49.400 --> 00:50:49.770
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Growth.

576
00:50:49.770 --> 00:50:52.030
Tad Eggleston: Of Lp cheek.

577
00:50:52.750 --> 00:50:53.900
Tad Eggleston: Tq.

578
00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:55.500
Tad Eggleston: and it's like.

579
00:50:56.840 --> 00:51:04.540
Tad Eggleston: I mean, yeah, I say this in in lots of contexts. But mental health is actually a really

580
00:51:04.610 --> 00:51:11.070
Tad Eggleston: important 1. 1 of the reasons I wish we had national health is because then you could vote on

581
00:51:11.680 --> 00:51:21.409
Tad Eggleston: changes they wouldn't have to be driven by. Is there a profit to be had here? If we wanted to have more people who could do things, we could make it a legislative priority

582
00:51:22.060 --> 00:51:28.620
Tad Eggleston: that, you know. I'm not saying that legislatives, legislatures work fast. I'm not saying that would be an overnight.

583
00:51:30.390 --> 00:51:35.860
Tad Eggleston: an overnight fix, but as long as it's for profit it doesn't matter how much of a legislative

584
00:51:36.020 --> 00:51:38.310
Tad Eggleston: priority something is.

585
00:51:38.900 --> 00:51:45.519
Tad Eggleston: you're not actually gonna be able to make it happen unless there are enough people who need it to make it profitable.

586
00:51:48.060 --> 00:51:49.420
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I know

587
00:51:50.810 --> 00:51:54.859
Tad Eggleston: And certain things just feel profitable enough from a societal standpoint.

588
00:51:54.860 --> 00:51:55.670
Bryce: Yeah, yeah.

589
00:51:55.670 --> 00:51:57.529
Tad Eggleston: That it shouldn't be about.

590
00:51:58.350 --> 00:51:58.990
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

591
00:51:58.990 --> 00:52:01.460
Bryce: We all benefit from people having

592
00:52:01.480 --> 00:52:04.240
Bryce: mental health resources. Right? I mean.

593
00:52:04.240 --> 00:52:04.850
Tad Eggleston: Right.

594
00:52:04.850 --> 00:52:08.369
Bryce: Society benefits from it in so many ways. It's it's

595
00:52:08.900 --> 00:52:23.540
Bryce: reductive when people are like, well, you know, we we spend this money, and it's a waste. It's not just because you can't see every positive result from from something like that, from putting money into something like that doesn't mean it's not happening.

596
00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:24.580
Tad Eggleston: Right.

597
00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:33.909
Bryce: You know, there's there's there's a clear need. I mean, just look at the homelessness problem in this country and the percentage of people who are homeless, that also are dealing with mental health issues

598
00:52:34.290 --> 00:52:41.959
Bryce: like, it's not that tricky to see that we could do something that would make life better for everyone, not just people who are struggling.

599
00:52:43.770 --> 00:52:46.929
Tad Eggleston: Well, and if we if we break down the stigma.

600
00:52:47.730 --> 00:52:53.230
Tad Eggleston: I mean I I'm a big believer that, like almost everybody could

601
00:52:53.300 --> 00:53:04.680
Tad Eggleston: could benefit from seeing a therapist a couple of times a year, particularly if like, like. And this is something that that for profit medicine has made more difficult, too. But like.

602
00:53:04.900 --> 00:53:19.840
Tad Eggleston: when you have a good general practitioner, that you see once a year, or a couple of times a year, or a dentist, that you see once a year or a couple of times a year, they will see things that you haven't seen yet, and you get to start fixing them

603
00:53:20.120 --> 00:53:21.839
Tad Eggleston: before their problems.

604
00:53:22.410 --> 00:53:23.550
Bryce: So true.

605
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:27.029
Tad Eggleston: Before there are problems. Why.

606
00:53:27.600 --> 00:53:31.320
Tad Eggleston: why, why can't we take mental health? That seriously.

607
00:53:32.910 --> 00:53:35.090
Dr. Edgar Ramos: You know I've been in the field

608
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:37.889
Dr. Edgar Ramos: going on 30 years. Oh, my God, I'm getting old!

609
00:53:38.730 --> 00:53:41.650
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I can honestly say, you know just

610
00:53:42.680 --> 00:53:54.290
Dr. Edgar Ramos: that I've seen it change, and that these these new generations are more comfortable speaking and talking about mental illness than they were, you know, in the seventies and eighties like they are more comfortable

611
00:53:54.410 --> 00:53:58.130
Dr. Edgar Ramos: putting it out there. And and so there's hope in that.

612
00:53:58.530 --> 00:54:07.899
Dr. Edgar Ramos: These are the kids that are going to go into it. They're going to be the leaders of our country, and that you would hope that if they're more comfortable in speaking to it, they're going to be more comfortable in fighting for it and changing.

613
00:54:07.900 --> 00:54:10.060
Tad Eggleston: I hope so. I hope so.

614
00:54:10.060 --> 00:54:11.570
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I keep my hope, and that I see.

615
00:54:11.570 --> 00:54:15.169
Tad Eggleston: I do, too. I do, too, because I've been. I've been seeing the same thing.

616
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:26.920
Tad Eggleston: but but on the flip side, then you. Then you see the old man establishment politician like dig in even harder on oh, no, the kids like it. It's bad.

617
00:54:27.453 --> 00:54:27.986
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Well

618
00:54:28.520 --> 00:54:49.970
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: Zoe does weigh in on it a little bit. She actually does go to therapy just like for one page. That was, she conceptualizes the therapist as a snake, though, and so I'm curious. The meaning for her behind that.

619
00:54:49.970 --> 00:54:51.350
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Kind of did this call get.

620
00:54:52.130 --> 00:54:54.249
Tad Eggleston: That can be hard.

621
00:54:54.611 --> 00:54:57.100
Tad Eggleston: This is one of those things where like.

622
00:54:57.940 --> 00:55:00.969
Tad Eggleston: and I think it's another thing that's getting better

623
00:55:01.340 --> 00:55:09.390
Tad Eggleston: than it was 20 years ago, but I used to have friends who'd say, Oh, I I went to therapy. It didn't work for me. It's like we'll try another therapist.

624
00:55:09.620 --> 00:55:10.330
citizen.avila@gmail.com: -

625
00:55:10.790 --> 00:55:13.840
Tad Eggleston: Therapists are not one size fits. All.

626
00:55:13.950 --> 00:55:15.050
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I

627
00:55:16.020 --> 00:55:17.009
Tad Eggleston: go ahead, Katie.

628
00:55:17.904 --> 00:55:21.865
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Yeah, I don't know. My headphones just died perfect timing. So I don't know how

629
00:55:22.730 --> 00:55:31.079
citizen.avila@gmail.com: I'm like how much different I sound. But no, Ted, it's interesting that you talk about that because it's something I've thought about a lot that

630
00:55:31.350 --> 00:55:54.179
citizen.avila@gmail.com: it's like 2 things like, so when I was like 17 was the 1st time I started going to therapy, but it was very hush, hush! In our family, and not completely addressed. But you know, especially being a girl in the late nineties early aughts. It's very easy to get labeled crazy when you start doing therapy or talking about it and having to go on Meds, and so it was always very quiet about it.

631
00:55:54.300 --> 00:56:06.453
citizen.avila@gmail.com: But I gained one of my closest friends. I still have to this day, and we both kind of figured out like, oh, so you go to therapy, too, and it's like we would kind of scurry off and like talk about it together.

632
00:56:06.830 --> 00:56:31.379
citizen.avila@gmail.com: where we just couldn't talk with other friends for probably another 15 years about it. But I definitely do. I am definitely happy to see that kids are able to talk about it, and just be aware of it more than when I was in high school, you know, using Yahoo to kind of look up different things like depression and like learning about bipolar and stuff like that. But it it is very.

633
00:56:32.020 --> 00:56:41.029
citizen.avila@gmail.com: very nice to see. Kids have accessibility to that. But I gotta tell you it was really really awesome once the whole wave of friends that I had that were like

634
00:56:41.060 --> 00:56:47.739
citizen.avila@gmail.com: therapy is not something that I need. That's something that other people need. And once those people started going to therapy, it was like

635
00:56:47.900 --> 00:56:52.980
citizen.avila@gmail.com: fucking awesome because we could just open up and talk to each other.

636
00:56:53.050 --> 00:56:57.939
citizen.avila@gmail.com: and not immediately, but over the years, open up much more, and especially as we got older, and have

637
00:56:58.140 --> 00:56:59.610
citizen.avila@gmail.com: much better.

638
00:56:59.720 --> 00:57:10.189
citizen.avila@gmail.com: like much more realistic conversations, and able to like, really check in with each other in a way that we couldn't before. So it's kind of like for the younger kids. I'm kind of like. Oh, this is nice just to like.

639
00:57:10.270 --> 00:57:16.919
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Have this reinforcement and positivity at least around it, to start rather than have to find that 20 years later.

640
00:57:17.350 --> 00:57:19.519
Tad Eggleston: I think we're getting more of that.

641
00:57:21.010 --> 00:57:21.660
Dr. Edgar Ramos: You know what? What?

642
00:57:22.629 --> 00:57:47.509
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Usually, when when kids like, when we see high schoolers and their seniors and they graduate, we typically lose them as clients, because they're like, Well, we're off to college like, see you later. But I've been seeing more and more as they are leaving to college like they're like, well, can we? Just can we do zoom like once a month, like just, you know, just to check in and have that conversation? I've seen a lot of our our high schoolers now going off to college

643
00:57:47.600 --> 00:57:59.984
Dr. Edgar Ramos: and continuing at least at the very least once a month, if not every other month as they're in their dorms, you know, as they're like in between classes. You know, checking in with their their therapist.

644
00:58:00.340 --> 00:58:05.059
Dr. Edgar Ramos: not. I'm not saying, every every kid does it. But it's it's definitely been an increase. And it's

645
00:58:05.160 --> 00:58:11.339
Dr. Edgar Ramos: it's it's nice to see that they they know. And I mean, telehealth wasn't really

646
00:58:11.650 --> 00:58:14.459
Dr. Edgar Ramos: available until like a years ago.

647
00:58:14.640 --> 00:58:17.089
Tad Eggleston: Well, this this is. This is one of the few

648
00:58:17.300 --> 00:58:20.789
Tad Eggleston: positives out of the pandemic is like, Oh.

649
00:58:21.260 --> 00:58:23.689
Tad Eggleston: we don't have to find a way to be in the same room.

650
00:58:26.540 --> 00:58:27.290
Tad Eggleston: Sure.

651
00:58:27.430 --> 00:58:32.960
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: One of the things that I was curious about. Especially

652
00:58:32.970 --> 00:58:36.978
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: Edgar. If you have any experience with this

653
00:58:38.590 --> 00:58:54.520
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: so it has been a positive that we're seeing more young people being open to talking about mental illness at the same time, it seems like there's a lot of self diagnosis going on online.

654
00:58:54.520 --> 00:59:11.279
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: and a lot of reinforcement and positive feedback from taking on a mental illness as an identity. So I'm thinking of the Tiktok trends where people are.

655
00:59:11.930 --> 00:59:12.600
Dr. Edgar Ramos: What?

656
00:59:12.600 --> 00:59:14.330
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: Filming their ticks.

657
00:59:15.390 --> 00:59:21.600
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: you know that they, you know, maybe have. Maybe it's a little more performative.

658
00:59:21.600 --> 00:59:24.580
Tad Eggleston: He? He was jumping in with a dad joke.

659
00:59:25.080 --> 00:59:25.740
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: And go.

660
00:59:25.740 --> 00:59:26.693
Tad Eggleston: Want to.

661
00:59:27.710 --> 00:59:28.189
Dr. Edgar Ramos: You had you.

662
00:59:28.190 --> 00:59:28.580
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: That's true.

663
00:59:28.580 --> 00:59:33.980
Dr. Edgar Ramos: With a job, and I was trying to fulfill it. I think that's a great, great question.

664
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:36.080
Dr. Edgar Ramos: because it's it's something that we

665
00:59:36.140 --> 00:59:37.939
Dr. Edgar Ramos: well, it's funny, because

666
00:59:38.590 --> 00:59:54.689
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I've been in the field long enough to see both sides. I still get the parents that go. There's no such thing as Adhd that it was never around in my day. I'm like, Well, how old are you? I was born in 1970. I'm like, well, no, it's because it was called something else. That's that's why, you know. So

667
00:59:54.950 --> 01:00:09.580
Dr. Edgar Ramos: you still see both sides. But yes, definitely. You see, a lot of individuals who are taking an identity of their mental illness, you know, from spectrum disorders to you know, I'm a divert. I'm neurodivergent and like they're they're owning it. But

668
01:00:09.800 --> 01:00:10.400
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I

669
01:00:11.600 --> 01:00:32.650
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I try to always stay positive, and how they understand their world is that you know, if they're willing to own their illness. I think that's a great step. That's a wonderful thing and more power to them. The problem is is, you're right, is that they're getting reinforcement and hearing things that may not be accurate and true. And then just

670
01:00:32.650 --> 01:00:45.970
Dr. Edgar Ramos: taking these labels and taking away from kids that truly do have it and owning that. So there is. It's another double edged sword. It's like you have to take the good with the bad at some level. But the way I always tell parents they go. Look.

671
01:00:46.070 --> 01:01:05.070
Dr. Edgar Ramos: you know what. I'm glad that you're willing to bring your kid in. Your kid thinks that they have it. I'm like this is the thing that we do is that's why we assess children, we you know, we give them tests like, it's, you know, pediatricians or other people sometimes just like, Oh, they you ask a child, are you. Adhd, yeah, I don't pay attention. I have difficulty concentrating. All right, let me give you this. Med.

672
01:01:05.590 --> 01:01:10.520
Dr. Edgar Ramos: But if you ever sit down with a parent and and I'm sorry I'm gonna I'm gonna answer this question in a lengthy way. So I apologize.

673
01:01:10.520 --> 01:01:11.280
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: No, not at all.

674
01:01:11.570 --> 01:01:14.310
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Ask a child and a parent and go well.

675
01:01:14.740 --> 01:01:17.779
Dr. Edgar Ramos: what's the difference between concentration and attention?

676
01:01:19.530 --> 01:01:46.629
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Can you define the difference? Can you define the difference between focus, concentration, and attention, and they never do. Rarely have I ever seen anybody do it. And then I go. Then how do you know you can't do it. If you can't define what it is I'm like. So I always tell parents I'm like, why don't you bring them in? And we'll actually give you a neuropsych and actually evaluate you to see if you, you know, even meet that minimum criteria. I'm like, I'm not one for just well, you ask some questions, and yes, you have it because

677
01:01:46.630 --> 01:02:00.929
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I can answer questions all day long. It doesn't mean that they're right. You know, my kids can answer questions. It doesn't mean that they're right, and sometimes kids believe it or not are influenced by parents, and the parent goes. Oh, you never listen. The kids going to go in the office and say, Yeah, I have problems listening.

678
01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:05.299
Dr. Edgar Ramos: do you? Or do you just not want to listen to your mother and father. That's 2 different things.

679
01:02:05.300 --> 01:02:05.970
Tad Eggleston: Right.

680
01:02:05.970 --> 01:02:26.870
Dr. Edgar Ramos: It's, you know, and and we all went through that. So it's about assessment. So I always say, like, you know, what if they think they have it. They're owning it great! Let's have them assess. Now, this whole tiktok thing. I'm not. I'm going to be honest. I don't have social media. So I don't know too much how how all that stuff works. I know Sam does it. We we do the psycho chronicology on it. She manages it, because it's

681
01:02:27.060 --> 01:02:52.249
Dr. Edgar Ramos: it doesn't make sense to me, and I don't know how how they do it, and I'm at the age where it's probably too late for me to even try to learn it. But I try to stay focused on that, hey? If it brings somebody to talk about it, and it brings somebody to my door, where I can at least educate you. Then I'll go with it. Does it come with some bad? That's all right. Music came with bad TV came with bad cars. Come with bad. Everything comes with it. Just a matter. Can I.

682
01:02:52.250 --> 01:02:57.920
Tad Eggleston: There's there's yeah. I don't think there's an advancement in the world that's that's 100%, good or bad.

683
01:02:59.430 --> 01:03:00.870
Tad Eggleston: I wanna?

684
01:03:01.200 --> 01:03:06.966
Tad Eggleston: It's not quite a counterpoint. I wanna I wanna build off of that and get your your thoughts, Edgar.

685
01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:12.892
Tad Eggleston: cause cause you mentioned that that they called it something else, or they didn't call it anything.

686
01:03:13.704 --> 01:03:16.730
Tad Eggleston: I was at a a panel

687
01:03:17.570 --> 01:03:18.500
Tad Eggleston: at

688
01:03:18.910 --> 01:03:24.940
Tad Eggleston: C. 2 E. 2 this year with Jenny Wood, who did a book called, I think paper Planes

689
01:03:26.186 --> 01:03:29.930
Tad Eggleston: and one of the things she talked about is

690
01:03:30.410 --> 01:03:31.350
Tad Eggleston: that

691
01:03:32.770 --> 01:03:33.860
Tad Eggleston: like

692
01:03:35.400 --> 01:03:38.200
Tad Eggleston: she figured out that she was

693
01:03:38.870 --> 01:03:42.749
Tad Eggleston: a lesbian in her twenties, because

694
01:03:43.230 --> 01:03:44.920
Tad Eggleston: because

695
01:03:46.220 --> 01:03:50.929
Tad Eggleston: she definitely wasn't like what everybody expected her to be, and

696
01:03:50.950 --> 01:03:58.279
Tad Eggleston: this seemed closer, didn't quite feel right. But it was closer than that whole, I like guys thing.

697
01:03:58.330 --> 01:04:04.360
Tad Eggleston: And it wasn't until she was in like her thirties. And there started being trans people that she's like, Oh.

698
01:04:06.590 --> 01:04:14.609
Tad Eggleston: but even then she's like, well, I don't really wasn't until like she heard the term non-binary that she's like, Oh, no, that feels like a shoe that fits

699
01:04:16.470 --> 01:04:19.040
Tad Eggleston: So when it comes to

700
01:04:22.090 --> 01:04:27.149
Tad Eggleston: self diagnosis and and ownership. And I agree that it's good to follow up

701
01:04:27.820 --> 01:04:34.629
Tad Eggleston: with the diagnosis. Though I will say that there are certain diagnosis that particularly as adults

702
01:04:35.531 --> 01:04:40.720
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I don't have an official autism spectrum diagnosis, because

703
01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:50.869
Tad Eggleston: as an adult to get one would complicate my life more than it would help it, because I certainly don't have severe enough autism that

704
01:04:50.950 --> 01:04:56.839
Tad Eggleston: I would be eligible for, say, disability or anything like that. But

705
01:04:57.380 --> 01:05:07.250
Tad Eggleston: if I had it on paper that it was something that I am, it might affect my ability to maintain my bus license, or whatever

706
01:05:10.030 --> 01:05:27.360
Tad Eggleston: but identifying it in myself, having it confirmed by people who could diagnose me. But we haven't gone through the tests has made me understand myself better, has made me more comfortable in who I am and where I am, so so can you talk about

707
01:05:30.790 --> 01:05:36.909
Tad Eggleston: I guess the benefits versus the dangers of of being able to find yourself in

708
01:05:37.830 --> 01:05:39.610
Tad Eggleston: a diagnosis.

709
01:05:40.813 --> 01:05:55.249
Tad Eggleston: Cause I can. I can absolutely imagine dangers, but I have an active, horrible imagination, so I would rather that you you put out any of the imaginary dangers than me, because I might go. I might go to the nth degree.

710
01:05:57.630 --> 01:06:03.090
Dr. Edgar Ramos: So so I so I can say I'll do a quick one is that

711
01:06:03.470 --> 01:06:16.300
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I think you said it best. There's nothing new, no new tech that doesn't have a danger to it. We are not immune to that as well as as clinicians as doctors is that it's a double edged sword as well, because you know, and and

712
01:06:16.820 --> 01:06:20.220
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I hate to say it, but I'll be blunt, because sometimes I am blunt.

713
01:06:20.390 --> 01:06:28.009
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Look, if you have the money. You can pay anybody to write you a diagnosis to give you the diagnosis that you need to get more time on the test.

714
01:06:28.590 --> 01:06:51.619
Dr. Edgar Ramos: So yes, it does exist, it does happen, and that's the dangers to it, you know, thankfully, we have Emrs. Now that you know, electronic medical records that we can see like, Hey, you've been to 5 different doctors, and you got 4 same diagnosis. And then this one is different. How did that happen? So there! There is some systems in place. It's not perfect, but we have some systems. But yeah, there is double edge. It is a double edged sword. In that.

715
01:06:51.620 --> 01:07:00.589
Dr. Edgar Ramos: you know there's there's the danger of that. There's a danger of clinicians who, you know, believe it or not. There's some therapists that what's the word I can say, Suck

716
01:07:00.830 --> 01:07:01.680
Dr. Edgar Ramos: and I

717
01:07:02.890 --> 01:07:10.120
Dr. Edgar Ramos: are more, are more of a danger than they are a help, you know. I I definitely definitely see that, like they're not. You know

718
01:07:10.370 --> 01:07:35.109
Dr. Edgar Ramos: we're not. All the same, I can tell you that, you know, but that's the double. You wanted to say something, I think, circling back to like the Tiktok. And, like, you know, the self-diagnosis. For as smart as these these kids are when it comes to utilizing technology, they forget or they don't understand, that there's something called an algorithm in which the videos that they watch

719
01:07:35.110 --> 01:08:03.240
Dr. Edgar Ramos: are going to be the only videos then they get which then, you know, can be a good thing, because it's it's knowledge being spread across the globe. And we're receiving new information. And we're able to access things that we were never able to access before. But once you hit a certain part in that algorithm, you're only going to get the things that the algorithm thinks that you're going to like to continue to be on Tiktok, so that you spend more time on Tiktok. So Tiktok gets more money

720
01:08:03.300 --> 01:08:10.879
Dr. Edgar Ramos: because it's feeding you exactly the things that it knows you're interested in. And the things that you want to see is that why I only get food videos. That's why you only.

721
01:08:11.162 --> 01:08:12.010
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Oh, my God!

722
01:08:12.010 --> 01:08:41.599
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Interesting. I think that's the dangerous thing with kids is that for as smart as they are for the utilization of technology, you know, there. There's some things that maybe they don't know or they're not grasping the concept of how you know this. This algorithm is affecting them, and it's it might be validating a misdiagnosis. There's so many times that I get kids coming in for intakes. And they've basically recited the whole Dsm to me.

723
01:08:41.680 --> 01:08:42.780
Dr. Edgar Ramos: And I'm like

724
01:08:42.859 --> 01:08:44.750
Dr. Edgar Ramos: you memorized like I know you.

725
01:08:44.750 --> 01:08:46.720
Tad Eggleston: Too much of the Dsm.

726
01:08:46.720 --> 01:08:47.670
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I know this is.

727
01:08:47.670 --> 01:08:49.090
Tad Eggleston: Too many symptoms.

728
01:08:49.090 --> 01:08:52.089
Dr. Edgar Ramos: You're 15. I know you don't know this word.

729
01:08:53.037 --> 01:08:53.660
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: Like, and then.

730
01:08:53.660 --> 01:08:55.630
Tad Eggleston: I might have Sam.

731
01:08:56.060 --> 01:08:58.589
Tad Eggleston: I read the dictionary before I was 15.

732
01:08:58.590 --> 01:08:59.170
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Okay, like.

733
01:08:59.170 --> 01:09:00.264
Tad Eggleston: Read the dictionary.

734
01:09:00.630 --> 01:09:12.640
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I'm I'm you know. I'm I'm not saying every kid. But I'm saying there's you know, there's some kids, and I'm like, I know you. I know you didn't know this word like I know you were in the car on the way up here.

735
01:09:12.790 --> 01:09:16.062
Dr. Edgar Ramos: sitting in the back seat, you know, looking this up.

736
01:09:16.399 --> 01:09:22.289
Tad Eggleston: Honestly, I feel like the fact that I read the dictionary probably could have been used in my diagnosis.

737
01:09:22.290 --> 01:09:22.939
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Absolutely.

738
01:09:23.310 --> 01:09:27.029
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Yeah, I will definitely give that indication.

739
01:09:27.340 --> 01:09:29.160
Bryce: And you're asking me for words.

740
01:09:30.819 --> 01:09:35.371
Tad Eggleston: I didn't say I remembered all.

741
01:09:37.870 --> 01:09:42.140
Tad Eggleston: I mean, what does Hannity say? We're supposed to do? Our own research.

742
01:09:44.189 --> 01:09:44.939
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Oh, boy!

743
01:09:46.590 --> 01:09:54.310
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: One of the things that struck me right at the end was when Zoe said, You know why you're not happy. You don't want to be.

744
01:09:54.500 --> 01:09:55.190
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Hmm.

745
01:09:55.400 --> 01:09:56.510
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: And

746
01:09:56.570 --> 01:09:59.869
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: that to me sounded like

747
01:10:00.740 --> 01:10:05.619
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: the danger of self identifying with your illness.

748
01:10:05.810 --> 01:10:06.900
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: And

749
01:10:07.300 --> 01:10:09.690
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: you know there's the part of

750
01:10:09.730 --> 01:10:12.710
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: depression that, especially

751
01:10:13.670 --> 01:10:15.670
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: in relation to trauma

752
01:10:16.110 --> 01:10:24.370
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: tells the brain. Okay, I'm very familiar with this emotion. So this emotion feels like home, you know. Really, this mood, if we're

753
01:10:24.510 --> 01:10:26.216
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: being technical

754
01:10:27.320 --> 01:10:29.819
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: But then the

755
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:34.259
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: risk, I guess, of getting better is, if I do feel better.

756
01:10:34.410 --> 01:10:44.140
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: This could go away. This feeling could go away. And where am I then? And what I was really curious about was.

757
01:10:44.240 --> 01:10:48.680
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: if I feel good, am I not a loser anymore?

758
01:10:48.850 --> 01:10:58.589
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: Because that takes me out of that group that I had formed a bond with. And does that mean I'm the villain? Because she

759
01:10:58.790 --> 01:11:03.289
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: drew the people who were bullying her

760
01:11:03.480 --> 01:11:04.490
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: as

761
01:11:04.650 --> 01:11:08.448
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: the villains which you know, rightfully so if they're

762
01:11:09.390 --> 01:11:11.569
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: you know, making fun of her

763
01:11:12.110 --> 01:11:14.010
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: at the same time.

764
01:11:14.410 --> 01:11:26.349
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: you know, I could easily see how, especially as a kid, you would think well, these bullies feel good about themselves. So if I feel good about myself, does that mean I'm a bully?

765
01:11:28.360 --> 01:11:29.890
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: I don't know what's your take.

766
01:11:32.590 --> 01:11:35.562
Dr. Edgar Ramos: You know I can always respond, but I'm waiting around.

767
01:11:35.860 --> 01:11:39.969
Tad Eggleston: You know. I I'll I'll add to that, because I know that the

768
01:11:41.050 --> 01:11:43.099
Tad Eggleston: the single, hardest part.

769
01:11:43.830 --> 01:11:48.009
Tad Eggleston: because I actually kind of I related to her, and I didn't. I didn't read it

770
01:11:48.070 --> 01:11:49.900
Tad Eggleston: poorly, because

771
01:11:51.350 --> 01:12:00.280
Tad Eggleston: one of the things I'll sometimes say to my wife when she'll she'll be like. Well, it's not that easy is no, it's not that easy, but it is that simple

772
01:12:01.750 --> 01:12:06.200
Tad Eggleston: because so so much of my mental health journey has been

773
01:12:07.120 --> 01:12:27.690
Tad Eggleston: ultimately deciding to change things, deciding to go outside my comfort zone and be happy, deciding to go outside of my comfort zone and go. Oh, this person likes me. They like to spend time with me. I'm just going to accept that rather than assuming there's something wrong with them. Because why on earth would they want to spend time with me.

774
01:12:28.165 --> 01:12:37.269
Tad Eggleston: Hell. This podcast challenges me that way. Sometimes I have. I have 5 people right here that like 10 years ago, it's like.

775
01:12:37.340 --> 01:12:47.010
Tad Eggleston: Now I'm not cool enough. You shouldn't like me. When is the shoe gonna drop? I should just run away now, because that way I won't get hurt?

776
01:12:49.650 --> 01:12:54.459
Tad Eggleston: so there is this huge element, at least for me, of being willing

777
01:12:56.620 --> 01:12:58.409
Tad Eggleston: willing to own

778
01:13:00.400 --> 01:13:01.910
Tad Eggleston: responsibility.

779
01:13:01.930 --> 01:13:10.349
Tad Eggleston: So so for me, it's not, I mean, part of it is is the the whole. Oh, the reason I feel terrible is I don't want to not feel terrible

780
01:13:12.340 --> 01:13:15.200
Tad Eggleston: in that. There's comfort here, but part of it is. Also.

781
01:13:15.360 --> 01:13:19.389
Tad Eggleston: if I don't want to feel terrible, I have to decide that I don't want to feel terrible.

782
01:13:19.630 --> 01:13:46.280
Tad Eggleston: I can't hope that the world will change. I can't hope that that my boyfriend will will do better, or that my parents will suddenly become everything that I always wanted them to be, and and and beg my forgiveness for all of the things that they did wrong, that they probably didn't even think they did wrong, and they might not have done wrong, because, you know, Rashomon, effect my view of it, their view of it completely different, and I don't know what they were going through in their lives. Blah blah.

783
01:13:46.990 --> 01:13:49.000
Tad Eggleston: or I can say

784
01:13:49.670 --> 01:13:52.380
Tad Eggleston: I'm the one that can decide

785
01:13:53.810 --> 01:13:55.139
Tad Eggleston: how I'm going to feel.

786
01:13:57.170 --> 01:13:58.350
Dr. Edgar Ramos: If if I could.

787
01:13:58.590 --> 01:14:03.075
Dr. Edgar Ramos: No, I can just respond to that, too, as well. Great great

788
01:14:03.560 --> 01:14:06.630
Dr. Edgar Ramos: question you. You you point out so

789
01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:13.470
Dr. Edgar Ramos: it's twofold. So I'm gonna try to organize my thought because I mean while I'm not depressed, I am an Adhd brain here.

790
01:14:14.940 --> 01:14:15.310
Dr. Edgar Ramos: So.

791
01:14:15.310 --> 01:14:16.940
Tad Eggleston: You been diagnosed, Dr. Ramos.

792
01:14:16.940 --> 01:14:18.700
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Yes, yes, I have.

793
01:14:18.700 --> 01:14:19.060
Tad Eggleston: Diagnose.

794
01:14:19.500 --> 01:14:20.770
Tad Eggleston: go to another doctor.

795
01:14:21.870 --> 01:14:23.509
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Not all the time.

796
01:14:24.530 --> 01:14:30.619
Dr. Edgar Ramos: What is is the why, the 1st part is the why, you know, and that's where we sometimes forget is that

797
01:14:30.740 --> 01:14:35.850
Dr. Edgar Ramos: sometimes, and clinicians are guilty of it. You know people sometimes are guilty of it is that you know why you're

798
01:14:37.340 --> 01:14:52.999
Dr. Edgar Ramos: or you know you know why you're anxious. It's like there is no why? Because there's different forms of depression. There's organic depressions that are, you know, definitely, you know, medically based. And then there's, you know, situational depressions or environment. So there's there's a different why, so there's 1 part to it

799
01:14:53.140 --> 01:15:17.000
Dr. Edgar Ramos: irregardless of that, or with that in mind is that you got to remember that when throughout our development, when, if we have, you know whatever disease, disorder, mental illness, whatever you want to frame it as it integrates with our personality, our our intelligence integrates with our personality, you know. So imagine you having this longstanding depression, and if you had it at very meaningful times in your life

800
01:15:17.100 --> 01:15:22.799
Dr. Edgar Ramos: that has become a part of who you are. Now you go somewhere, and someone says, Let's get rid of that.

801
01:15:23.170 --> 01:15:36.940
Dr. Edgar Ramos: They're asking you, and there's a part of you, you know, deep down in your brain that you're giving up a part of who you are, a part of how you've dealt with everything, and you don't. That's a scary thing to do is that you know I've only known

802
01:15:36.940 --> 01:15:56.580
Dr. Edgar Ramos: how to isolate when I'm scared or things go wrong. I've only known how to, you know. Do this. I've only known how to lash out. I've only known to cry. It's like now it's saying, Well, let's take that away and do something different. So I tend not to ask kids or any more people like, well, what will make you happy because you know what you know. What answer I'm going to get I don't know.

803
01:15:56.910 --> 01:16:10.490
Dr. Edgar Ramos: and that's the honest answer is, they don't know, because the next step is fucking scary. It's I don't know what to do with this anymore. I've been like this. It's who I am. I know it doesn't feel good.

804
01:16:10.550 --> 01:16:32.249
Dr. Edgar Ramos: you know every blue moon. Maybe I feel good, but I know I don't. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to go, so it's it's that scariness. So for me the the thing isn't always about treating someone, and, like, all right, let's throw you back into the wild. It's let me at least stabilize you and let you know that what you're feeling experiencing it's okay. It's okay to feel shitty, you know.

805
01:16:32.260 --> 01:16:50.760
Dr. Edgar Ramos: which is what some people don't want to own you can't feel shitty. Why, the only way you will ever know feel good is, if you know you felt shitty. You can't have one without the other. My running joke with people is, you know what? Thank this big, fat guy when you are thin, because if it wasn't for people like me you wouldn't know. You look good.

806
01:16:50.800 --> 01:17:09.829
Dr. Edgar Ramos: So you're welcome. So you need those that both sides of the spectrum. And that's why I tell kids and adults like, look, man, you feel bad, it should. You know it's right. So let's give you a day when you do feel good. And let's focus on that. Let's maintain you here, and then slowly work through it. I don't know if I fully answered your question, but it's

807
01:17:10.460 --> 01:17:15.249
Dr. Edgar Ramos: it's a hard thing to do, because one you have to know the why and 2,

808
01:17:15.300 --> 01:17:25.460
Dr. Edgar Ramos: it's understand that man changing someone's personality is intertwined at times with their diagnosis, and it's a hard thing to unweave. It's a super hard thing to unweave.

809
01:17:26.160 --> 01:17:32.629
Tad Eggleston: If I can just emphasize a part of that, I know for me at least, and I've certainly seen it with some of my kids

810
01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:34.910
Tad Eggleston: both at school and

811
01:17:35.060 --> 01:17:36.680
Tad Eggleston: my actual kids.

812
01:17:39.370 --> 01:17:41.940
Tad Eggleston: when you've developed a coping mechanism

813
01:17:42.230 --> 01:17:46.039
Tad Eggleston: that maybe isn't the best coping mechanism. But

814
01:17:46.410 --> 01:17:49.150
Tad Eggleston: it's better than no coping mechanism.

815
01:17:49.270 --> 01:17:50.670
Tad Eggleston: And suddenly you have

816
01:17:51.090 --> 01:17:52.610
Tad Eggleston: to to

817
01:17:53.620 --> 01:17:57.139
Tad Eggleston: look at letting that go to actually move forward.

818
01:17:58.890 --> 01:18:02.070
Tad Eggleston: You know whether it's okay. It's time to stop cutting

819
01:18:02.130 --> 01:18:03.170
Tad Eggleston: or

820
01:18:05.170 --> 01:18:20.639
Tad Eggleston: I can't even think of examples off the top of my head. But like when in your head, you're going. No, this is. This is good for me, because I feel way better when I do this than when I don't do this. But but you have to trust that therapist is going. Yeah.

821
01:18:20.890 --> 01:18:21.950
Tad Eggleston: But

822
01:18:24.680 --> 01:18:26.330
Tad Eggleston: what comes next.

823
01:18:28.187 --> 01:18:35.799
Tad Eggleston: That what comes next is terrifying because you worked so hard to to build that strategy, to

824
01:18:37.750 --> 01:18:39.440
Tad Eggleston: be able to get out of bed.

825
01:18:40.210 --> 01:18:44.269
Tad Eggleston: And now that strategy that's the only reason you got out of bed is

826
01:18:46.100 --> 01:18:52.589
Tad Eggleston: an aspect of the problem. But it's also like in your head. It's like how how you

827
01:18:53.670 --> 01:18:55.189
Tad Eggleston: how you get out of bed.

828
01:18:56.260 --> 01:19:00.809
Tad Eggleston: You know I mean the best best analogy I can come up with is like, you know.

829
01:19:01.170 --> 01:19:05.320
Tad Eggleston: If your doctor said, Hey, you know, you just can't use that right leg anymore.

830
01:19:06.830 --> 01:19:12.150
Tad Eggleston: I know it seems like it's really convenient. But you can't use that right leg anymore.

831
01:19:13.650 --> 01:19:22.620
Tad Eggleston: your left leg strong. So hop on it. We'll get you some crutches, you know, using that right leg. It's just it's it's gonna it's gonna kill you

832
01:19:24.520 --> 01:19:29.020
Tad Eggleston: which obviously is an extreme analogy. But sometimes that's the only kind I can come up with.

833
01:19:30.820 --> 01:19:34.580
Tad Eggleston: Bryce. That was a great look. I wish we had. I wish we had.

834
01:19:34.580 --> 01:19:35.270
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Buffet.

835
01:19:35.510 --> 01:19:38.920
Tad Eggleston: Wish, we were doing a video podcast just for that look.

836
01:19:38.920 --> 01:19:40.680
Bryce: Do a lot of nodding and stuff. I know

837
01:19:41.700 --> 01:19:43.909
Bryce: purpose on this podcast.

838
01:19:43.910 --> 01:19:45.837
Tad Eggleston: That's not true.

839
01:19:48.980 --> 01:19:49.870
Bryce: Yeah.

840
01:19:51.840 --> 01:19:52.840
Tad Eggleston: No.

841
01:19:53.470 --> 01:20:02.879
Bryce: I I need to hop off here in a minute, but I would like to thank you for having me come on. It's it's. This is a really cool podcast. And.

842
01:20:02.880 --> 01:20:10.300
Tad Eggleston: You, you know, I I was thinking about it today. I'm certainly wanna do one on

843
01:20:11.260 --> 01:20:31.409
Tad Eggleston: mental health at least once a year now, and and maybe more often, just because it is such an important topic. And in in trying to find a way to kind of promote on Instagram, while at the same time not centering Zoe while she's going through everything that she's going through. I wound up, finding all sorts of other books that could.

844
01:20:31.800 --> 01:20:32.580
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Be here!

845
01:20:32.580 --> 01:20:35.999
Tad Eggleston: Used as the center of the conversation.

846
01:20:38.060 --> 01:20:41.800
Tad Eggleston: And I'm like, Oh, we could really easily do this regularly.

847
01:20:42.320 --> 01:20:43.320
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I saw it.

848
01:20:43.320 --> 01:20:47.810
citizen.avila@gmail.com: In that. In that graphic I was like, oh, I own half of these books.

849
01:20:47.810 --> 01:20:48.370
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

850
01:20:49.530 --> 01:20:51.020
Tad Eggleston: which is price.

851
01:20:51.320 --> 01:21:00.110
Bryce: Oh, yeah, I I what I'm actually working on writing right now is about my job and about I'm trying to do fiction. But you know

852
01:21:00.500 --> 01:21:01.260
Bryce: that really.

853
01:21:01.260 --> 01:21:02.210
Tad Eggleston: Fantastic.

854
01:21:02.210 --> 01:21:09.269
Bryce: Expresses what it's like to work with kids with some real mental health needs in a public school setting.

855
01:21:09.360 --> 01:21:13.600
Bryce: When we don't have the resources. We need to help these kids most of the time.

856
01:21:14.370 --> 01:21:23.620
Bryce: So so I would love once I get it written, and and and get it put together to come on and talk about that as well.

857
01:21:23.780 --> 01:21:25.205
Tad Eggleston: Please, please, please.

858
01:21:25.910 --> 01:21:32.439
Tad Eggleston: and and if you, if you want a proof, reader, before then, I I will be happy to to, to to just.

859
01:21:32.750 --> 01:21:36.780
Bryce: Yeah, this crew seems like a good sounding board for this group. So.

860
01:21:37.090 --> 01:21:39.980
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Yeah, I would. I would love to see that. I think that'd be really.

861
01:21:39.980 --> 01:21:40.820
Tad Eggleston: Interesting.

862
01:21:41.020 --> 01:21:42.050
Tad Eggleston: right? Thank you.

863
01:21:42.050 --> 01:21:43.210
Bryce: Yeah, and and for the.

864
01:21:43.210 --> 01:21:49.299
Tad Eggleston: Matter our our 2 guests that that weren't able to make it. I can. I'll vouch for as good sounding boards.

865
01:21:49.300 --> 01:21:51.659
citizen.avila@gmail.com: Yeah, this just turned into a workshop.

866
01:21:52.410 --> 01:21:54.390
Tad Eggleston: We'll workshop your book with you, Bryce.

867
01:21:54.390 --> 01:21:56.750
Bryce: In a few months I will be in touch.

868
01:21:58.636 --> 01:22:02.364
Tad Eggleston: I think this is actually a relatively good

869
01:22:03.300 --> 01:22:07.299
Tad Eggleston: wrap up point does anybody have any final thoughts?

870
01:22:08.230 --> 01:22:10.050
Tad Eggleston: Anything they want to say.

871
01:22:10.410 --> 01:22:11.529
Dr. Edgar Ramos: Love, the book.

872
01:22:12.430 --> 01:22:13.330
Tad Eggleston: I did that.

873
01:22:15.630 --> 01:22:22.009
citizen.avila@gmail.com: I do live. I actually got it through the challengers, comics and conversation sale. They recommended it.

874
01:22:22.170 --> 01:22:25.720
citizen.avila@gmail.com: and I saw it, and I was like, yep, absolutely throwing this in the pile.

875
01:22:25.720 --> 01:22:33.410
Tad Eggleston: For a while, and I forgot to check before this. But challengers in Chicago was hosting a monthly

876
01:22:33.530 --> 01:22:37.290
Tad Eggleston: Mental Health Book Club that the local chapter of Nami

877
01:22:37.440 --> 01:22:38.570
Tad Eggleston: was

878
01:22:41.710 --> 01:22:43.010
Tad Eggleston: sponsoring

879
01:22:44.180 --> 01:22:45.280
Tad Eggleston: so

880
01:22:46.190 --> 01:22:54.909
Tad Eggleston: that that made me happy. I actually discovered that through Nami at c 2 e. 2, a couple of years ago. I looked at their flyer. I'm like, Oh, challengers! I love those guys

881
01:22:56.300 --> 01:23:02.190
Tad Eggleston: than than thanked Patrick and Dal for doing doing it. When when I was in the next time.

882
01:23:03.770 --> 01:23:06.724
Tad Eggleston: I like that. Mental health is, I mean, I think.

883
01:23:08.240 --> 01:23:10.100
Tad Eggleston: I don't think you have more.

884
01:23:12.090 --> 01:23:14.719
Tad Eggleston: I don't think any medium has more

885
01:23:15.370 --> 01:23:19.110
Tad Eggleston: biography, autobiography, fiction.

886
01:23:19.390 --> 01:23:24.130
Tad Eggleston: dedicated to just mental health stories than comics does

887
01:23:24.520 --> 01:23:30.420
Tad Eggleston: like like for for for movies and TV, you generally have to be famous

888
01:23:30.620 --> 01:23:35.863
Tad Eggleston: or whatnot to have a have a biography or an auto bio

889
01:23:36.430 --> 01:23:39.690
Tad Eggleston: in comics. You can just have a story to tell.

890
01:23:41.590 --> 01:23:43.310
Tad Eggleston: and I think that's really cool.

891
01:23:43.717 --> 01:23:46.490
Tad Eggleston: I think it helps a lot of people feel seen.

892
01:23:47.350 --> 01:23:52.929
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: I think what sticks with me is that each page of this book

893
01:23:52.940 --> 01:23:54.360
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: was a choice.

894
01:23:54.450 --> 01:23:57.749
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: Day after day after day

895
01:23:57.900 --> 01:24:04.789
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: of intentionality, of moving forward with a purpose

896
01:24:04.880 --> 01:24:06.429
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: in a really.

897
01:24:06.870 --> 01:24:09.150
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: in a way that is

898
01:24:09.240 --> 01:24:11.920
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: open and raw. And

899
01:24:14.020 --> 01:24:22.340
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: I think anyone who reads this that comes across like you said about page 2.

900
01:24:23.000 --> 01:24:23.390
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

901
01:24:25.630 --> 01:24:27.739
Bryce: It's a it's a brave book.

902
01:24:27.760 --> 01:24:28.840
Bryce: It's brave.

903
01:24:28.900 --> 01:24:31.249
Bryce: you know, for her to express. Like

904
01:24:31.390 --> 01:24:33.400
Bryce: all this depth of her

905
01:24:33.610 --> 01:24:36.260
Bryce: depression and her struggles

906
01:24:36.380 --> 01:24:37.460
Bryce: and

907
01:24:37.718 --> 01:24:43.439
Bryce: and I like, we said before, I I'm rooting for her. I hope she's okay and hope she's getting the help she needs.

908
01:24:43.760 --> 01:24:45.770
Bryce: and that she continues to

909
01:24:45.880 --> 01:24:48.420
Bryce: create wonderful work for a long, long time.

910
01:24:48.850 --> 01:24:53.540
Tad Eggleston: Been following her Instagram, particularly since her brother passed, and she seems to be

911
01:24:55.120 --> 01:25:01.079
Tad Eggleston: okay. Feels like the wrong word to use, because she just lost her brother, but she seems to be healthy.

912
01:25:04.010 --> 01:25:10.230
Tad Eggleston: I will. Actually, Bryce was was mentioning earlier that that this book shows that she could do anything.

913
01:25:10.501 --> 01:25:13.770
Tad Eggleston: And in this book she talked about her 2 other books, the impending

914
01:25:13.920 --> 01:25:22.815
Tad Eggleston: blindness of Billy. I forget the last name which is phenomenal, amazing. Everybody should read it. And she also worked on

915
01:25:23.450 --> 01:25:25.170
Tad Eggleston: Joe Hill's reign.

916
01:25:25.210 --> 01:25:31.989
Tad Eggleston: which she did amazing amazing work on then the book that she did. After this

917
01:25:32.970 --> 01:25:37.170
Tad Eggleston: she became the 1st person that got to both write and illustrate

918
01:25:37.190 --> 01:25:38.649
Tad Eggleston: a hack slash book

919
01:25:38.970 --> 01:25:44.660
Tad Eggleston: without Tim Seeley. So so she got to do like the the

920
01:25:45.700 --> 01:25:47.120
Tad Eggleston: trying to remember

921
01:25:47.770 --> 01:25:49.910
Tad Eggleston: the the name of of

922
01:25:50.720 --> 01:25:53.139
Tad Eggleston: of the girl and Cass and Vlad.

923
01:25:54.160 --> 01:25:58.549
Tad Eggleston: At like the the Slasher Hunter

924
01:25:58.730 --> 01:26:00.130
Tad Eggleston: Boarding School.

925
01:26:00.160 --> 01:26:05.125
Tad Eggleston: It's like their origin story, and man, does she have some fun with that?

926
01:26:06.793 --> 01:26:13.459
Tad Eggleston: So so I recommend taking that up hack slash back to school. I think it was called. It's collected now.

927
01:26:15.550 --> 01:26:19.030
Tad Eggleston: so I think I think so. He's gonna be okay.

928
01:26:20.930 --> 01:26:35.645
Tad Eggleston: But yeah, no, I I feel it. And and, Megan, I feel bad, because, you know, the 2 that we've had you on so far were were this one and Jim Terry's come home? Indios, so like we'll have to have you on to talk about a happy book sometime.

929
01:26:35.940 --> 01:26:42.180
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: That's quite all right. That's quite all right. You know, mental health is close to my heart. I

930
01:26:42.920 --> 01:26:48.429
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: studied psychology. I have a master's in that. And I really.

931
01:26:48.750 --> 01:26:55.770
Megan Smith- Mount Prospect: it's an important conversation to have so anytime. And if we want to talk about happy things, we can do that too.

932
01:26:57.150 --> 01:27:00.310
Tad Eggleston: All right, psychocomicology. Last notes.

933
01:27:01.250 --> 01:27:11.679
Dr. Edgar Ramos: I think books like this are important, not only for others to tell their stories, but also for people to gather around to dialogue and discuss.

934
01:27:12.382 --> 01:27:14.070
Dr. Edgar Ramos: You know our

935
01:27:14.150 --> 01:27:20.560
Dr. Edgar Ramos: our opinions, and what makes us think and have important conversations that are sometimes really hard to have.

936
01:27:22.230 --> 01:27:22.830
Dr. Edgar Ramos: You're here.

937
01:27:22.830 --> 01:27:26.577
Tad Eggleston: Well, I thank you all from the bottom of my heart. And

938
01:27:27.670 --> 01:27:31.569
Tad Eggleston: for 22 panels we will see you after the next page.